Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by riggofan »

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Ben Kotwica was at West Point when Desertskins was there... hopefully, he will know something of him...

He was 4-0 against Navy... that's all I need!

He must have been at Army decades ago if he went 4-0 against Navy, because I don't think Army has beaten Navy in any year starting with a 2. I'm sure they have won a couple this century, but I can't remember it.


Me either. I didn't realize Kotwica went to the Jets after coaching at USMAPS. Very cool!
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by riggofan »

Irn-Bru wrote:Special teams improvement might be the easiest, best bang-for-his-buck method that Gruden can use to improve our team's overall record. Tilting the average starting field position back toward the other team's end zone will make our defense and offense that much more effective — not to mention the benefits of not giving up 10+ points on ST alone in a game. :oops:


That's a great point btw.
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by Countertrey »

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Ben Kotwica was at West Point when Desertskins was there... hopefully, he will know something of him...

He was 4-0 against Navy... that's all I need!

He must have been at Army decades ago if he went 4-0 against Navy, because I don't think Army has beaten Navy in any year starting with a 2. I'm sure they have won a couple this century, but I can't remember it.

Go Navy, Beat Army!


Ahem... 93, 94, 95, 96. I was there for the 95 Game... 14-13... a BRUTAL, and INCREDIBLE end of game VICTORY for the Black Knights!
It is called... "The DRIVE"... starts at 1:38 Dropped my damned 35mm SLR... broke the battery cover off... didn't care.

Go Army, Beat Navy...
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by markshark84 »

HarleyHog wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:it's a team game and people want to blame the coach or the players and even the refs - what about asking "are they playing well together?

fact is if you don't have 11 guys on the field doing what they have to do TOGETHER you're going to have FAILURE

- the salary cap hurt our depth but if Danny Smith left because he felt like Mike was making it difficult for him to do his job, then that tells us a lot

there's a lot of excuses for this franchise not playing well together for over 15 years - it's got to come down to 1 of 2 things - the owner or the HC or both :twisted:


Well if we ask "are they playing well together?" and it isn't the coaches or players or refs, then what else would you figure to be the problem?



It is not sound logic to assume that it was the same problem all along.
Snyder has gotten the rap as a 'bad owner', but I never saw it at all. He grew up a fan, loves the team, and willingly spends. He made bad DECISIONS, but has evolved and stepped back and essentially LISTENED to some of his critics.
Those bad decisions, sadly, have included coaches. Shanny clearly improved the team, despite two years of capgate, but 3-13 ...
but those 13 losses came for varied reasons. Some were RGIII not up to speed and clearly way out of synch, some were coaching inadequacy, some a talent gap, and other crap mixed in and all around. Personally, I include John (I'm a big pile of Mara) Mara and his goon squad of zebras as well, but, of course, I know that the officials treat all teams equally :roll:
What it comes down to is it's a tough league, especially in the age of parity. The gap between W and L is really quite small, hence 'any given Sunday'.

Let's just hope that Gruden's balance of strengths and weaknesses, the will of the injury gods, the luck of the bounce, and the wrath of Mara hit the scales tilting a little in our favor.


Disagree with your Danny sentiment. Whether people want to believe it or not some of the "strengths" -- like his love for the skins being a home town kid -- have actually hurt this team due to his ignorance to the general game of football. When he first bought, he wanted to BUY (via FA) a winner --- the problem was, he didn't know how to and knew NOTHING about football. This was obvious by his free agent spending spree. In the NFL, teams are built --- not bought. He had no understanding of that simple concept.

It took him a decade to figure out that a GM was actually necessary to win (and I'm still not 100% sure he does). Meanwhile we sat thru his coach firings (like the team being horrible was Turner, Schotts, or Gibbs' faults --- hell, even Zorn was put in a position to lose) and dumb FA pick ups. Then he goes out and gets a big name coach with nothing to prove and a management type GM...... That didn't work out. Now he hires an "up and coming" coach with something to prove and doesn't hire a pure player personell GM in charge of scouting, drafting, FA, etc. (and yes, some say this is Allen, but he did NOT do with while MS was here)....... We'll see how this turns out, but based on his history, he will continuing making different mistakes due to his ignorance, lack of understanding regarding the game of football, and his inability to learn football. The only way he'll win is by COMPLETELY taking himself out. Hire a real GM and collect checks --- but he is unwilling to do this due to his "love of all things skins"...... so these "strengths" you speak of are actually weaknesses.

When determining whether someone is a good owner, being a fan or the ability to spend DOES NOT IN ANY WAY MAKE SOMEONE A GOOD OWNER. Winning does. And winning come from making good decisions --- something Danny has never done (other than the 1 case where he was able to get Gibbs out of retirement). A good owner is one that wins ---- NOT one that spends or likes his team. So, none of the things you list above, have any relevance to being a good owner. They would make him a good FAN -- which is what he should be.

JKC was a GREAT owner --- and he didn't grow up in DC (he was born in Canada after all), didn't grow up loving the skins, or spent the way Danny does (since no one does). The reason he was great was because he lead us to 3 SBs. This being said even though he moved the team out of DC......

Winning is the measuring stick by which all owners should be judged. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by riggofan »

markshark84 wrote:Disagree with your Danny sentiment. Whether people want to believe it or not some of the "strengths" -- like his love for the skins being a home town kid -- have actually hurt this team due to his ignorance to the general game of football.


I get your point, but being a home town kid, loving the team and be willing to spend freely have not "actually hurt this team" like you're saying. "His ignorance to the general game of football" is what has hurt the team. He could be a spendthrift from Kentucky who grew up loving the Chargers, and his bad decisions would still be what have hurt the team.

I think when people point to these "strengths" of Dan Snyder, they're kind of saying, "To his credit, Snyder is a guy who loves and has loved this team as much as I have. Too bad he's been such an idiot." :D
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by SkinsJock »

sorry HarleyHog - you're not looking at the big picture

it's true that there are many things that contribute to the failure that is the Washington Redskins
one thing is for sure, the Redskins will not succeed on the field while Dan Snyder keeps interfering with 'what happens on the field' - that's just a fact

we have seen him withdraw some recently but he needs to get out of the way completely - we all know he's still interfering
I'm not talking about having 'a dinner' with RG3 - I'm referring to his interfering & meddling with the coaches and players in general

Mike Shanahan did not do well as a HC but Dan Snyder did not help matters either
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by riggofan »

SkinsJock wrote:we have seen him withdraw some recently but he needs to get out of the way completely - we all know he's still interfering


meh. And not to be argumentative, but I don't know that. What proof, even anecdotally, do we have that Snyder has been meddling with coaches and players the past few years? Especially if you're not talking about dinner with RGIII? I heard zippy about him for the past four years until about four weeks ago.

I know its been reported that Shanahan didn't like any of the "star treatment" stuff Snyder did for his franchise QB. Personally I don't find that stuff all that surprising or even that unusual. I don't think you have to look that hard to find examples of Jim Irsay treating Andrew Luck differently than the third string running back.

I'm not remotely a Dan Snyder fan, but he got scapegoated big time last month. It seems to me like fans just slipped a little too easily back into "blame Dan Snyder" mode.
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by SkinsJock »

The only 'proof' we have is that we continue to have a problem putting a consistently competitive product on the field ..

Snyder is responsible for that ...

the dinner thing is way over-blown unless RG3 intimated to the other players that he and Snyder had a 'friendship'

or

Mike felt the 'contact' was inappropriate - we don't know anything for sure about that in particular .. but ...

we do know what our record on the field is while Snyder is the owner

the only way that we improve is for Snyder to not interfere or meddle - it's not all bad coaching
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by SkinsJock »

I think that most of the 'reports' the last 6 weeks, about our team, about Mike and about Dan Snyder were way over the top and mostly BS

I just think that in order for this team to have a consistently competitive product on the field, Dan Snyder has to change his ways :D
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by riggofan »

SkinsJock wrote:The only 'proof' we have is that we continue to have a problem putting a consistently competitive product on the field ..


That's not proof that he has been interfering or meddling with coaches or players. That's just proof that Dan Snyder has not been a very successful owner. :)
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by riggofan »

SkinsJock wrote:I think that most of the 'reports' the last 6 weeks, about our team, about Mike and about Dan Snyder were way over the top and mostly BS

I just think that in order for this team to have a consistently competitive product on the field, Dan Snyder has to change his ways :D


I know what you're saying, and yeah I agree Snyder to stay back and let the football guys do their jobs.

My point is really just that I don't know that Snyder hasn't largely changed his ways already. Firing Cerrato, stepping back and putting Shanahan/Allen in charge was a move that was largely applauded by pretty much everyone. I definitely gave him credit for it at the time, and my perception the past four years has been that, good or bad, this has been Shanahan's show.

Then Shanahan falls apart and suddenly its all about Snyder again? Just not buying it. There are a lot of legitimate reasons why Mike wasn't successful the past four years. I blame Mara for the past year a lot more than I blame Snyder.
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by SkinsJock »

I did not say "it's all about Snyder" - there's a lot of reasons but he's one of them

I really hope like you said that he has learned and I agree, it seems like he's not interfering or meddling - I also agree that Mike did not help at all

I am not anti Dan Snyder I just want to see this franchise improve under his ownership - I want to see the results of all his "support"



we have another HC and he's getting all he needs to have a consistently competitive product on the field

we shall see what happens - I am not letting this little twit off easy - he's still lurking, and he's a menace
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Rumor: Redskins Hire Jets Special Teams Coordinator

Post by riggofan »

SkinsJock wrote:I did not say "it's all about Snyder" - there's a lot of reasons but he's one of them

I really hope like you said that he has learned


Me too! Didn't mean to say you specifically were claiming "its all about Snyder". Just during those Shanahan meltdown weeks, all of these anti-Snyder comments things started popping up all over the place. Snyder screws it up again. blah. Snyder bears the responsibility for hiring Shanahan, but I don't think that was an egregiously bad decision.

Interesting btw that everybody was opining the Redskins would be one of the least attractive jobs because of Snyder. That didn't turn out to be the case at all.

Jay Gruden:
On what drew him to the Redskins position

I know Bruce Allen, I know what he is about as a person, as a general manager. And what put me over the top was meeting Daniel Snyder and his commitment to this team and this city. Sometimes you read or hear negative things about ownership groups and all that stuff. But after meeting him and the comfort level I had with him, I’m just very excited to get started. And luckily they offered me the job, and I couldn’t sign quick enough. It was not a tough decision for me at any stretch.
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