riggofan wrote:Would it make a difference if we change from the 3-4 back to the 4-3? Would it increase Orakpo's value and capability?
According to ey, yes. He basically said the 3-4 defense stifled Orakpo (and Kerrigan). He thinks a 4-3 would be better suited for their talents.
Mitt when I heard him talking about it yesterday. He said that Kerrigan would be right at home at DE but thought Orakpo would have to keep playing OLB. ey just didn't feel their is that big of a deal driving from 34 to 43.
I agree that Orakpo is too small to play DE and would be a SAM I'm a 43. I think Rob Jackson is better suited as a SAM.
We definitely should let Orakpo test the FA market. I don't think his market value will be as big as he thinks it is.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
I kid you not, during the week leading up to the Giants game, ey said how both Kerrigan and Orakpo would be better suited in the 4-3. He was going on and on about how Shanahan's changes didn't suit the players strongest attributes and named those two as examples. Weird how he'd change it around a week later.
StorminMormon86 wrote:I kid you not, during the week leading up to the Giants game, ey said how both Kerrigan and Orakpo would be better suited in the 4-3. He was going on and on about how Shanahan's changes didn't suit the players strongest attributes and named those two as examples. Weird how he'd change it around a week later.
Maybe he didn't change. Maybe he was thinking Orakpo would be a better SAM or WILL in a 43 our maybe he thought that he would only be used on passing situations. Either way, Orakpo is just too small to play DE in a 43 on an every form basis. Kerrigan could make the transition with ease.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
I just don't see why so many people on here think Orakpo is too small to play the DE in the 4-3 when he is just as big or bigger than guys who currently play the position and excel at it, (Mathis, Ware, Tuck). The guy can bench press a small car and is a workout warrior, I think he can hold his own against offensive tackles in this league.
PAPDOG67 wrote:I just don't see why so many people on here think Orakpo is too small to play the DE in the 4-3 when he is just as big or bigger than guys who currently play the position and excel at it, (Mathis, Ware, Tuck). The guy can bench press a small car and is a workout warrior, I think he can hold his own against offensive tackles in this league.
I think that some like skinsfan#33 is implying that a prototypical DE (every down) should be at least 275 or 280 so he can put up with the punishment of stopping the run as well. I get it. I also think Rak can put on some weight and be that guy. Phillip Daniels said he was Rak's size coming out of school. Bone structure plays a part. Thin bones and too much weight will put him at a disadvantage. He would lose his speed. A happy medium would be to make him a pass rush specialist. I think he did well with his hands in the dirt.
Rather than to say let him go, why not allow him to go seek what his value is and then allow us to match if we think it's a valid offer. We are always complaining about not developing our own draft picks and then when we have a chance we let them go, and usually they go on to have stellar careers. Personally I would love to see what Rak could do with a REAL DC and if switching back to a 4-3 allowing him to bulk up and be a DE when his coverage isn't a liability I think he would be very good, what are we going to let Kerrigan go too when his contract is up? I am against over spending for any player regardless but I don't think we can afford to lose him and then have Rob Jackson take over his position full time, sorry Rob is a good player but he can't sniff Rak when he is 100%. I say let Steven Bowen, Adam Carriker go, along with the money we will have by Fletcher retiring we should have enough to offer him fair market value at around 7.5 million a year, he hasn't been healthy and was hurt again this year's end, no way anyone is going to give him 10 million a year........
DaSkinz Baby wrote:Rather than to say let him go, why not allow him to go seek what his value is and then allow us to match if we think it's a valid offer. We are always complaining about not developing our own draft picks and then when we have a chance we let them go, and usually they go on to have stellar careers. Personally I would love to see what Rak could do with a REAL DC and if switching back to a 4-3 allowing him to bulk up and be a DE when his coverage isn't a liability I think he would be very good, what are we going to let Kerrigan go too when his contract is up? I am against over spending for any player regardless but I don't think we can afford to lose him and then have Rob Jackson take over his position full time, sorry Rob is a good player but he can't sniff Rak when he is 100%. I say let Steven Bowen, Adam Carriker go, along with the money we will have by Fletcher retiring we should have enough to offer him fair market value at around 7.5 million a year, he hasn't been healthy and was hurt again this year's end, no way anyone is going to give him 10 million a year........
I am certain he will test the market. He thinks he is elite.
He will 100% test the market. He is an UNrestricted FA --- that is what unrestricted FAs do. And while I agree he thinks he's better than he actually is, many teams will be interested and pursue him. He has been a constant producer outside his injury season in 2012. This season he quietly had 60 tackles, 10 sacks, an interception, and 2 fumble recoveries. That is quality production. I think many of us overlook this because we compare him to Kerrigan --- who is superior to Orakpo.
So don't be surprised if the skins are forced into a bidding war to retain Orakpo.
the Redskins should not get into 'a bidding war' for any free agent
we have the guys that know what he's worth - they make him an offer or they find out what it takes to keep him and if that suits the plan they pay the man
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
I know a few have already said this, but Rak thinks he's better than what he really is. He has unlimited potential, and I would hate the see his talent leave this team, but at the same time, he's not "that" good.
In fact, any player on this sorry @$$ team wanting "elite" money can suck it. Sorry to be vulgar, but a true team player will see that there's many needs to be filled in this team...they can't drain the river all for themselves. If that's their attitude, go "f" up someone else's cap space.
Kerrigan > Orakpo
"I'm trying to be as honest as I can; I don't normally do that." -Mike Shanahan
He cant stay healthy either so Id say let him go and USE THAT $$$ to get both Jackson AND Riley....we need Riley back....OTHER FREE AGENTS: Eric Decker (need another weapon), Tracy Porter, Terrance Cody ( a mammoth space eater NT), Major Wright (playmaker), Pat Angerer (decent ILB), and Jonathan Dwer (Helu stinks). Dwer is a 1 cut north/south runner that can break tackles...THAT IS MY WISH LIST
RG3peat wrote:He cant stay healthy either so Id say let him go and USE THAT $$$ to get both Jackson AND Riley....we need Riley back....OTHER FREE AGENTS: Eric Decker (need another weapon), Tracy Porter, Terrance Cody ( a mammoth space eater NT), Major Wright (playmaker), Pat Angerer (decent ILB), and Jonathan Dwer (Helu stinks). Dwer is a 1 cut north/south runner that can break tackles...THAT IS MY WISH LIST
He had a feak muscle tear. Twice granted but I don't think he is injury prone. More than likely he gets the franchise tag if he is kept. I doubt they sign him long term unless he takes less.
RG3peat wrote:He cant stay healthy either so Id say let him go and USE THAT $$$ to get both Jackson AND Riley....we need Riley back....OTHER FREE AGENTS: Eric Decker (need another weapon), Tracy Porter, Terrance Cody ( a mammoth space eater NT), Major Wright (playmaker), Pat Angerer (decent ILB), and Jonathan Dwer (Helu stinks). Dwer is a 1 cut north/south runner that can break tackles...THAT IS MY WISH LIST
He had a feak muscle tear. Twice granted but I don't think he is injury prone. More than likely he gets the franchise tag if he is kept. I doubt they sign him long term unless he takes less.
What makes it a "freak" tear? Especially twice? Not saying hes soft or prone either cause they have been major and little ticky tacky nagging stuff...Pass rushing "hybrids" are common now and can get another at top of rd2....
markshark84 wrote:He will 100% test the market. He is an UNrestricted FA --- that is what unrestricted FAs do. And while I agree he thinks he's better than he actually is, many teams will be interested and pursue him. He has been a constant producer outside his injury season in 2012. This season he quietly had 60 tackles, 10 sacks, an interception, and 2 fumble recoveries. That is quality production. I think many of us overlook this because we compare him to Kerrigan --- who is superior to Orakpo.
So don't be surprised if the skins are forced into a bidding war to retain Orakpo.
I agree with most of what you said and while I really like Kerrigan, personally, I don't think he's superior. Orakpo, IMO, is clearly our best pass rusher. Kerrigan is a very good player but i think people underestimate how good Orakpo is because he's not elite or as good as we hoped. I'm not saying overpay for the guy but you have to get players who can get to the QB and although inconsistent he can do that and if he leaves we have to replace him and i'm not sold JAckson is the answer. I'd only let him go if eh price gets way high. Anyways, i'm generally agreeing with you I just don't think Kerrigan is superior.
Kilmer72 wrote:It makes it freak because that injury doesn't happen often. He reinjured the same tear. He got surgery and lasted the year without any problems.
FTR it was the same muscle but a different tear... Unrelated to the first tear from what I read.
#21 forever in our hearts “I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley
Kilmer72 wrote:It makes it freak because that injury doesn't happen often. He reinjured the same tear. He got surgery and lasted the year without any problems.
FTR it was the same muscle but a different tear... Unrelated to the first tear from what I read.
Well, what are the chances he tears the same muscle but in another unrelated injury? hah!!!
I see where you are coming from with this thread but id pay the man and here is why. Sometimes you pay a guy a little more than what you want if he is a guy who can be a leader for this team. Fletcher is gone and I think Orakpo can fill those leadership shoes. If you combine his play with those win at all cost leadership traits I think he is worth the money. I do think he is better suited for a 4-3 end role but he has improved imo since he first became a 3-4 olb for us. Kerrigan and Orakpo are two players you can build a defense around.
AldersonSkinsFan wrote:I see where you are coming from with this thread but id pay the man and here is why. Sometimes you pay a guy a little more than what you want if he is a guy who can be a leader for this team. Fletcher is gone and I think Orakpo can fill those leadership shoes. If you combine his play with those win at all cost leadership traits I think he is worth the money. I do think he is better suited for a 4-3 end role but he has improved imo since he first became a 3-4 olb for us. Kerrigan and Orakpo are two players you can build a defense around.
Good post, man, and I like your comment about the leadership role. You can probably make the same point about Kerrigan going into next year.
In Rak's favor, he is still a young guy, he's a guy we drafted with a first round pick, and he has been a good Redskin. He's also been a good player on a bad defense. Add some more talent around him, I don't doubt that he can bring more to the team.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Orakpo counted 5.1 million against the cap this season, and his projected FA salary would be about 10 million (franchise tag would mean ~11 million) or double this year's mark. Is he worth double?
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Deadskins wrote:Orakpo counted 5.1 million against the cap this season, and his projected FA salary would be about 10 million (franchise tag would mean ~11 million) or double this year's mark. Is he worth double?
I think that depends on the alternatives a little bit, doesn't it?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Deadskins wrote:Orakpo counted 5.1 million against the cap this season, and his projected FA salary would be about 10 million (franchise tag would mean ~11 million) or double this year's mark. Is he worth double?
I think that depends on the alternatives a little bit, doesn't it?
Exactly. Either you have a bull rushing maniac or....? Rob? Rob is decent but he isn't our best pass rush.
Never thought Id be saying this but he does not deserve elite money. I blame Haslett for him not being in the best position to succeed though. So its kind of tough.
If we had a real defensive guru I wouldnt mind keeping him. If we continue with the same putrid defense whats the use in overpaying for him?
It depends on who we draft and who we sign in free agency. If we shore up the secondary, get another solid inside linebacker and maybe even another run stuffing DT/NT then maybe?
Orakpo is the best we've got, but isn't worth "elite" money. It's a tough one, and may come down to what the new defensive coaching staff think of him, and whether they feel they can make the best use of him to fulfill his potential.
HEROHAMO wrote:It depends on who we draft and who we sign in free agency. If we shore up the secondary, get another solid inside linebacker and maybe even another run stuffing DT/NT then maybe?
Problem is, you can't wait because he is a FA, and free agency comes before the draft.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
ey, yes. He basically said the 3-4 defense stifled Orakpo (and Kerrigan). He thinks a 4-3 would be better suited for their talents.
