riggofan wrote:I'm not intending to be snarky here, but what did Cousins do during those games exactly that Rex Grossman didn't/couldn't do when he was starting? I ask this in all seriousness. Take a look at Rex's last six games as a starter. Averaging about 250 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs per game. Wins 2, loses 4. Rex can run an NFL offense, I doubt any of us want to see him starting next September.
I guess my point is that I think all we saw from Cousins is that he could start for an NFL team and not completely crap the bed. I don't really have any clue how good or effective he can be mostly because the game and team situations he has been in the past few weeks have made that impossible. The one thing I did take away from those games is that I would rather have RGIII under center in the 4th quarter down a score or two than Kirk Cousins.
I'll buy the argument that Cousins could probably be a very effective Alex Smith type of guy with some strong pieces around him, especially on the offensive line. He seems like a smart, talented, selfless QB, and I like him. My question though is if you improved the team like that, why would you start Cousins instead of the "incredibly dynamic talent, who, when trained up, is more like a very physically gifted version of Mark Rypien. Accurate and powerful, with superior elusiveness"????
Anyway, I think countertrey made some good points. I will disagree a little about RGIII needing "a dominating O-line to have the time to work in the passing game". For one, you can say that about nearly ANY QB in the league, Cousins included. And second, we didn't have a dominating o-line in 2012, and RGIII was still a pretty effective passer.
For one, Cousins has started a total of 4 games in the NFL. His interceptions were to the correct read, just bad throws. AKA something that is correctable (learning to throw in front of the receiver, getting into a rhythm with the receivers, etc.), IMO. So I wouldn't compare him to Rex Grossman just yet. The reason you keep him is 2 reasons: if Griffin doesn't work hard in the offseason and learn the proper way to read defenses/play QB, etc. and in case Griffin gets hurt.
StorminMormon86 wrote:For one, Cousins has started a total of 4 games in the NFL. His interceptions were to the correct read, just bad throws. AKA something that is correctable (learning to throw in front of the receiver, getting into a rhythm with the receivers, etc.), IMO. So I wouldn't compare him to Rex Grossman just yet.
Well the correctable part is really what's debatable. I'm sure a lot of Grossman's INTs were "bad throws" too! Anyway, I wouldn't *really* compare the two guys either. Cousins strikes me as smarter and less of a crazy risk taker than Grossman. I was mostly just responding to your post that we knew anything definitive about Cousins at this point.
StorminMormon86 wrote:The reason you keep him is 2 reasons: if Griffin doesn't work hard in the offseason and learn the proper way to read defenses/play QB, etc. and in case Griffin gets hurt.
Totally agree. Though I think the idea that Griffin might not work hard in the off season is insane. I know people were disappointed in his play, but is there any doubt that he worked his *** off to get back in time to start in September? I wish the results had been better, because I think the effort that took on his part has been lost on and unappreciated by fans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Hard to believe this is still going on - first off Cousins is not a better QB for the Redskins - Cousins is a good NFL QB that has shown glimpses of being a solid NFL QB however he's more of an old fashioned style QB - that is great for those type offenses - RG3 is part of a new type of NFL QB
RG3 had a really good first year and has all the attributes and talent to be a great NFL QB - not even close there was a disconnect somewhere between he and Kyle or Mike - we did not see anywhere near the progress or development of the QB skills we were all expecting
I agree with riggofan in that RG3 did work his butt off to be able to get back on the field he needs a lot more help this off season to get back to playing QB the way he's capable of playing
we are very lucky to have both QBs - to me there is no doubt that RG3 offers a whole lot more as QB
RG3 is a gifted athlete that needs refining - he will get that this off season and we will see a huge difference from this past season
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:RG3 is a gifted athlete that needs refining - he will get that this off season and we will see a huge difference from this past season
I'm totally with you on RGIII, SkinsJock. And your point about RGIII needing refining is true too, I'm sure. I still think there is this conventional wisdom developing now where people are making RGIII out to be Mike Vick. Like he's just this athletic guy who runs around but can't figure out how to play QB. I think RGIII was a much better QUARTERBACK in his first year than people are giving him credit for now.
3200 passing yards. 20 TDs to only 5 INTs. It was pretty damn respectable for a rookie QB.
Drew Brees first year as a starter (his second year in the league): 3280 passing yards. 17 TDs to 16 INTs.
And Brees "regressed" in his second year too without the excuse of coming off ACL injury.
Listening to people in DC ready to give up on this guy and writing him off as a one hit wonder is driving me nuts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
riggofan wrote:I'm totally with you on RGIII, SkinsJock. And your point about RGIII needing refining is true too, I'm sure. I still think there is this conventional wisdom developing now where people are making RGIII out to be Mike Vick. Like he's just this athletic guy who runs around but can't figure out how to play QB. I think RGIII was a much better QUARTERBACK in his first year than people are giving him credit for now.
3200 passing yards. 20 TDs to only 5 INTs. It was pretty damn respectable for a rookie QB.
Drew Brees first year as a starter (his second year in the league): 3280 passing yards. 17 TDs to 16 INTs.
And Brees "regressed" in his second year too without the excuse of coming off ACL injury.
Listening to people in DC ready to give up on this guy and writing him off as a one hit wonder is driving me nuts.
I think that RG3 will clarify what happened at the appropriate time ...
It's not fair to either Cousins or RG3 to 'compare' or evaluate their 'worth' - they are different types of QBs and both will prove to be QBs that can win games ...
RG3 is the better all round talent and I'm sure we'll see him get very focused on improving himself in these coming months
RG3 is about to get a new HC, a new OC and some new 'weapons' - all will have time to work together and get ready for next season
I'm sure that Cousins will provide a lot of support as they get ready to play together
there will not be a QB controversy here as it's clear to most everyone who the Redskins starting QB is going to be
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Irn-Bru wrote:I think the doubters will be silenced next year.
Fingers crossed.
SkinsJock wrote:there will not be a QB controversy here as it's clear to most everyone who the Redskins starting QB is going to be
I wish that were true. I see you're not actually living in DC, are you? I'll just say if you had to listen to fans calling in on the radio every single day or just people talking around town, you might be less sure of that. The noise is insane. People believe all kinds of crazy stuff around here...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I must admit I do not listen as much as I did when I lived in Annapolis ...
well then - RG3 will make the QB controversy go away by how he prepares and performs prior to next season
I do think that Cousins is here next season
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
With Cutler signed, QB trade/free agent market will be slim: McCown, Vick, Schaub, Cousins, Mallett, Sanchez, etc
Looking at that list, I gotta say I'd feel pretty good about Cousins value if anybody is hard up for a QB this off season.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I just can't see the 'value' in letting Cousins go - he's 'worth' more to us than to another franchise ..
I don't see another franchise giving us what we'd need to get in 'trade' - we'd need to get a player who could start PLUS we'd have to get a good back up QB
I understand that we could lose him in a year but that is after we know that RG3 is going to be a great QB
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
With the threat of Rak asking for big money, I think the best thing to do would be to trade Cousins for at least a 3rd round pick no lower then a 4th round pick. There are several veteran backups that could do the job I believe. Thou that is a scary thought. I would love for the Skins to keep Cousins, he just has to much value right now.
Skins Fan in Indy wrote:With the threat of Rak asking for big money, I think the best thing to do would be to trade Cousins for at least a 3rd round pick no lower then a 4th round pick. There are several veteran backups that could do the job I believe. Thou that is a scary thought. I would love for the Skins to keep Cousins, he just has to much value right now.
OK - who is going to be the back up QB if we do not have Cousins? We have depth at QB which is the most important position - why would we make that deal?
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Skins Fan in Indy wrote:With the threat of Rak asking for big money, I think the best thing to do would be to trade Cousins for at least a 3rd round pick no lower then a 4th round pick. There are several veteran backups that could do the job I believe. Thou that is a scary thought. I would love for the Skins to keep Cousins, he just has to much value right now.
OK - who is going to be the back up QB if we do not have Cousins? We have depth at QB which is the most important position - why would we make that deal?
Pat White. lol.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Skins Fan in Indy wrote:With the threat of Rak asking for big money, I think the best thing to do would be to trade Cousins for at least a 3rd round pick no lower then a 4th round pick. There are several veteran backups that could do the job I believe. Thou that is a scary thought. I would love for the Skins to keep Cousins, he just has to much value right now.
OK - who is going to be the back up QB if we do not have Cousins? We have depth at QB which is the most important position - why would we make that deal?
Pat White. lol.
I wouldnt go as far as Pat White....LOL
That is a great point that there is depth at QB I just think with both RGIII and Cousins here it just means at any minute the chatter of the QB controversy can rear it's ugly head. Trade Cousins while there is value and to fill a need. I completely understand your point thou. Dam if they do...Dam if they dont....I just want them to win baby!!
there is little doubt that the cap hit hurt this team - the biggest issue was a lack of depth
Special Teams play was not terrible just because of Keith Burns - it was primarily because we did not have good enough depth
getting one good player for Cousins does not make sense - we need depth at QB
I doubt that we'll let Cousins go for a draft pick
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:getting one good player for Cousins does not make sense - we need depth at QB
I doubt that we'll let Cousins go for a draft pick
I know what you're saying, but if a team offered us a #2 this year, you'd at least have to consider it. The decision would be something like do you a) trade Cousins, pick up a #2 and sign or draft another backup QB or b) keep Cousins for another year as the backup and get nothing when he becomes a free agent at the end of the year.
I'm not saying that its a likely scenario, but I don't agree that it wouldn't make sense. Kirk Cousins isn't the only guy in the league capable of backing up RGIII. Bring Mike Vick or Josh McCown in if they don't get starting jobs somewhere else. Use that extra #2 or a #3 and draft Derek Carr, AJ McCarron or one of those later round QBs.
I only see five or six teams who *might* be looking for a new starting QB next year. Between the draft and FA, I'm just not sure we're likely to get an offer for Cousins.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I see - we get a draft pick that we hope will be an OK back up QB when we already have a good back up QB we're most likely losing him next season but we'll have had another year knowing we have a good back up
we need Cousins as insurance right now - why not keep Cousins for now and address the QB issue when we know more about RG3
I see it as having a back up QB and not worrying about if the draft pick can be a back up
it's not a bad thing to have 2 good QBs
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
SkinsJock wrote:we need Cousins as insurance right now - why not keep Cousins for now and address the QB issue when we know more about RG3
Its a totally valid argument, you just lose the opportunity to recoup a draft pick trading Cousins.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I just think the needs out weigh the insurance. I say get Sanchez/Schaub for the league minimum get the value now for Cousins and a draft pick and draft someone on the O Line, secondary or whatever. I am saying this based on the assumption that RGIII will be back to form next year which I am sure he will. If there was any doubts about RGIII I most certainly would never give up Cousins.
Skins Fan in Indy wrote:I just think the needs out weigh the insurance. I say get Sanchez/Schaub for the league minimum get the value now for Cousins and a draft pick and draft someone on the O Line, secondary or whatever. I am saying this based on the assumption that RGIII will be back to form next year which I am sure he will. If there was any doubts about RGIII I most certainly would never give up Cousins.
I'm with you.. stuff happens. Cousins is just as likely to get hurt or continue throwing picks as RGiii is to show the world he has progressed to a top tier qb. You can't build a team on what ifs tho. I'd prefer we get a safety or lb who is a good special teamed in exchange for Cousins. Unfortunately his stock dropped the last two weeks.
#21 forever in our hearts “I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley
I agree Cousins stock dropped the last 2 weeks, but he has something special about him that we need to keep around. To me he is a proven commodity, we know what we've got and we can rely on him. I think the qb position is resolved, i am not a huge RG3 believer but he is #1 and Cousins is #2. There are about 50 other guys and coaches that i think need replacing. Trading one of the 'keepers' isn't moving the team forward. Fun to speculate though.
we will see if the FO thinks having 1 draft pick is worth more than having a good back up QB
that's what it comes down to and I don't see them doing that
I would let Cousins go for a player that can start here before I'd let him go for a draft pick
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
I must admit I do not listen as much as I did when I lived in Annapolis ...
