The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

[SkinsJock]

I'm fairly sure that Mike is leaving or he will be fired … I was hoping that he'd be here for another season but now I think he'll be gone within the next month

[Deadskins]

I'm fairly sure that Mike is leaving or he will be fired … I was hoping that he'd be here for another season but now I think he'll be gone within the next month

I have to agree. The writing is pretty much on the wall.

[UK Skins Fan]

We do not need a new coach.

We need a new owner.

It does not matter who comes in with an owner who cannot stop interfering negatively with the team.

Why would Joe stop doing what is important to him with grandchildren in exchange for a failure with Snyder? Please just say no, Joe.

In what way has Dan Snyder interfered negatively with the team in the last four years?

Shanahan is tight-lipped on this stuff (except perhaps on the chance that he's the source of the ESPN leak), so it's hard to say. But the most recent leak made it sound like Shanahan experiences interference on a regular basis and is now fed up with it — and was last year to the point where he almost quit.

In addition, WaPo has claimed that Snyder was a major influence behind both the McNabb trade and the trade that landed us RGIII.

But again, hard to say, because we don't know the full story. I'm seeing enough symptoms that I'm inclined to believe it.

We really don't know the truth, but SOME are willing to pile the entire blame on Snyder without knowing facts. I do understand that Snyder has probably used up all credit with a lot of fans, and doesn't deserve any degree of blind faith. However:

I have also read reports that Snyder has in fact had almost no contact with RG3 during the season. Yes, he accompanied him to his appointment with the surgeon to repair that knee. Yes, he enjoyed Thanksgiving with the Griffins. But there has been little contact apart from that, and there is certainly no "open door" for RG3 to walk into Snyder's office. What's true? I don't know.

I also don't know what the correct level of interaction between owner and star quarterback is? Does Robert Kraft never meet with Tom Brady? Did Jack Kent Cooke never talk to Joe Theismann? If Peyton Manning or Drew Brees have no interaction with their respective owners, that would surprise me. It's certainly true that Snyder's relationships with the like of Clinton Portis and Deon Sanders have been unhelpful, but I just don't know whether that behaviour has continued or ceased. And neither do those who are willing to slam Snyder without facts. I understand the tendency to believe there MAY be a problem, but not the rush to castigate Snyder straight away.

I've also read reports that link only Shanahan with the deal to sign McNabb, although Allen was hesitant about the deal. No mention of Snyder having ANY involvement whatsoever.

In other words, I don't know what to believe. Except the fact that the team stinks. And there have been some very strange leaks coming from Redskins Park in recent weeks, which have the smell of political positioning about them. The facts will emerge in due course. Maybe.

[StorminMormon86]

There has to be more to it than just Snyder and Griffin eating Thanksgiving dinner together.

[Kilmer72]

This is why Joe Gibbs should be in the Hall twice. Anyone that can go to the playoffs twice in 4 years working for Snyder and Vinny Cerrato as GM deserves the Hall twice. Is this possible?

You see there was a ball coach for you. He didn't cave during the season. He fixed problems in the locker room.

Shanahan on the other hand, had everything he needed for tools given to him. He failed and is trying to help destroy what he did build. I lost any respect
I had for him.

[Kilmer72]

I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

[riggofan]

But, now comes the biggest problem. Snyder is the owner and he is not going to sell the team and go away. So, who comes in now to solve he problem. A former NFL coach? A retread? A college coach? Who would want to become part of the mess this team is in now? The problems are now so rampant in all parts of the organization that it will take a miracle to restore it to any state of respectability.

I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I'm with you on the "who would want this job" point. I don't think any coach coming in can feel too good about Snyder. Honestly, I thought the same thing when Shanahan took the job. I think fans knew what a mess he was taking over, even if he underestimated it.

I'll disagree a little about it taking a miracle to restore the team to respectability. Whatever our record has been over the past four years, Shanahan has cleaned up some things too. We have some young talent. We have Bruce Allen, not Vinny Cerrato. We'll have some real cap space to work with. Won't have the first round pick, but our 2d round will be high. Whether you like RGIII or not, I certainly feel better starting next season with him and Cousins, than with Grossman and Beck!

We can get back to respectability if Snyder doesn't make a mess of the next coaching hire.

[Kilmer72]

It is going to take someone with some backbone. Someone like Parcells. I am not saying him, just saying someone like him or Gibbs or Marty. I like Gruden but I would feel better if we had a foundation before hiring him. He knows how to use the people that are are there. Plus he lost his locker room in Tampa. We need someone that can have real checks and balances going on in the FO. Someone that wont quit on us.

[Deadskins]

I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

He really didn't. Most of the points he made are just simply no longer true. The ones he got right are universal, and don't apply to the Redskins alone.

[Kilmer72]

I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

He really didn't. Most of the points he made are just simply no longer true. The ones he got right are universal, and don't apply to the Redskins alone.

“And it’s not like we don’t have a book on Shanahan the talent evaluator: He’s bad at it. Like Joe Gibbs, Shanahan is one helluva coach but not particularly insightful as a talent evaluator. ”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/

Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

[Deadskins]

I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

He really didn't. Most of the points he made are just simply no longer true. The ones he got right are universal, and don't apply to the Redskins alone.

“And it’s not like we don’t have a book on Shanahan the talent evaluator: He’s bad at it. Like Joe Gibbs, Shanahan is one helluva coach but not particularly insightful as a talent evaluator. ”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/

Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

And I don't really agree with that. I think he's done a fine job of talent evaluation. Actually, better than he's done at coaching, so I think Wilbon missed at that too.

[SCSkinsFan]

But, now comes the biggest problem. Snyder is the owner and he is not going to sell the team and go away. So, who comes in now to solve he problem. A former NFL coach? A retread? A college coach? Who would want to become part of the mess this team is in now? The problems are now so rampant in all parts of the organization that it will take a miracle to restore it to any state of respectability.

I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I'm with you on the "who would want this job" point. I don't think any coach coming in can feel too good about Snyder. Honestly, I thought the same thing when Shanahan took the job. I think fans knew what a mess he was taking over, even if he underestimated it.

I'll disagree a little about it taking a miracle to restore the team to respectability. Whatever our record has been over the past four years, Shanahan has cleaned up some things too. We have some young talent. We have Bruce Allen, not Vinny Cerrato. We'll have some real cap space to work with. Won't have the first round pick, but our 2d round will be high. Whether you like RGIII or not, I certainly feel better starting next season with him and Cousins, than with Grossman and Beck!

We can get back to respectability if Snyder doesn't make a mess of the next coaching hire.

I too was in hopes that Shanahan would clean things up and originally it did appear that he had. Winning the NFC East last year gave all fans a glimmer of hope. But where are things now? How is the overall relationship between Snyder, Shanahan, and RGIII. And remember, Bruce Allen was here before Shanahan was and he appears to nowhere to be seen in this mess at this point. And now the sniping and back-stabbing has started.

I like RGIII and having Kirk Cousins as is backup. We are in good shape at QB.But, most of that were around when Coach Gibbs arrived that the Skins started back on the road to respectability when they drafted Mark May, Russ Grimm, added Joe Jacoby, and started to develop a dominant O line. The offensive concept (take that both ways) under Shanahan is not built that way. I'd prefer for us to go back to having a dominating, road grading, knock them off the ball type of O line that can also pass block and protect than the supposedly quick and nimble players that we have now and are getting run over week to week. I'm sure that Alfred Morris, a quality draft choice, could gain a good amount of yards running behind a line of road graders.

I'll stand behind my observations on the D and Special teams too.

So, the question still is,"Who can we really expect to come in and fix this mess"?

[riggofan]

Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.

[Kilmer72]

Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

And I don't really agree with that. I think he's done a fine job of talent evaluation. Actually, better than he's done at coaching, so I think Wilbon missed at that too.

He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

[skinsfan#33]

In what way has Dan Snyder interfered negatively with the team in the last four years?

THAT is what the whole mess is about - apparently Snyder has been 'in touch' with Robert on more than one occasion and in a way that pissed off Mike

That sounds like a Mike problem not a Dan problem. Owners are simply going to have a special relationship with their franchise QB. You're insane think otherwise.

[skinsfan#33]

Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

And I don't really agree with that. I think he's done a fine job of talent evaluation. Actually, better than he's done at coaching, so I think Wilbon missed at that too.

He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

It is hard to tell what he (Shanny) missed on (other than selecting the DefCoor) add long as Haslett is here I'm convinced that the talent that we do have is much better than the results! LB is a strenght. Other than Fletcher all of the other guys are good to very good. Fletcher just should have retired last off season or the one before.
DHall can still play and Amerson looks like a decent pick, but as I said it is hard to tell with Jimmy Haslett running the show on the D. The DL has decent players, but no true NG, but a guy that had played well there despite being too small to pay the position.
ST problems are two fold. A horrendous ST coach, plus a HC that doesn't allow enough starters to pay on ST.

[StorminMormon86]

I'm actually surprised that Snyder hasn't fired him yet.

[SCSkinsFan]

Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.

Okay, let's agree that it is a passing league now. So then, wouldn't you agree that the team would be better off having an O Line that can at least pass block? The current cast of imposters can't do that and it getting overrun every week. Either way, it all starts with having a quality O line to either pass block adequately, or be able to open up holes for the running game. Think of all the short yardage plays where the team has failed to gain the yardage needed for wither a first down or a touchdown. The only time they succeeded is where they used misdirection (think of the Helu and D. Young TD's this year). It's not where the O Line is knocking the opposing D Line off the ball. It's easy to long for thew good old days, not it's not unreasonable to ask for some sign of improvement in that area too.

[riggofan]

Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.

Okay, let's agree that it is a passing league now. So then, wouldn't you agree that the team would be better off having an O Line that can at least pass block?

Oh yeah, man, I totally agree with you. Your comment just struck me as funny because I had just heard that complaint about Redskins fans (I include myself in that!).

Its great that the ZBS is so effective for running the ball, but if it has to be a disaster in pass protection I don't know how you can stick with it.

[riggofan]

He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

Saying he "missed on" talent is a pretty gross overstatement too. I'm sure there are some players that he missed on, but because of the cap penalties took a lot of the decision making out of his hands. There were a lot of potentially better players available in free agency we just couldn't afford.

[Kilmer72]

He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

Saying he "missed on" talent is a pretty gross overstatement too. I'm sure there are some players that he missed on, but because of the cap penalties took a lot of the decision making out of his hands. There were a lot of potentially better players available in free agency we just couldn't afford.

I agree but some of this is pre cap. Who gets blame then? I mean I wanted so much to see Shanahan see this through next year and maybe replace ST coach maybe even JH. Instead we have someone that has running backs,QB and FO in shape and everything else is left open for discussion or debate. Then he gives up. I know some will say it is Snyders fault. I agree he deserves some blame. I also think Snyder can be directing his passion in a positive form. Step away please. If you can't hold anyone responsible for this then you have no leadership what so ever. Is it all on Snyder?

[SCSkinsFan]

Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.

Okay, let's agree that it is a passing league now. So then, wouldn't you agree that the team would be better off having an O Line that can at least pass block?

Oh yeah, man, I totally agree with you. Your comment just struck me as funny because I had just heard that complaint about Redskins fans (I include myself in that!).

Its great that the ZBS is so effective for running the ball, but if it has to be a disaster in pass protection I don't know how you can stick with it.

I don't think you can either. And from what I can see, the ZBS is not about the O linemen really knocking people off the ball. It's about getting out and screening people off, and then the back making the proper one cut and up decision and hitting the hole or gap created at just the right moment. I think defenses have figured that out now and they are just blowing the O linemen back up into the backfield and creating congestion, no holes or gaps, and nowhere for the back to run as evidenced by the declining number of yards Alfred has gained recently. Watch a see how many of our O line are on the ground or looking lost after being beaten one on one by the man across from them. Only Trent Williams, who at times gets beat too, is the only one that can hold his own.

[riggofan]

He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

Saying he "missed on" talent is a pretty gross overstatement too. I'm sure there are some players that he missed on, but because of the cap penalties took a lot of the decision making out of his hands. There were a lot of potentially better players available in free agency we just couldn't afford.

I agree but some of this is pre cap. Who gets blame then?

What specifically is pre-cap though? We couldn't sign a decent right tackle because of the cap penalty. We couldn't get a decent safety because of the cap penalty. We couldn't even afford old *** Antoine Winfield at CB because of the cap penalty. We didn't have the money to re-sign our special teams CAPTAIN, Lorenzo Alexander, because of the cap penalty.

Like I said, I'm sure Shanahan missed on some players. Not sure Josh Morgan was worth the money, for example. I don't think our personnel problems though are really because Shanahan "missed" on all of these guys. That's like sending me to the grocery store with six bucks then complaining that the wine I brought back sucks.

[Kilmer72]

Pre cap means to me = before Mara implemented the cap hit we and Dallas took. So before that. No its like sending you to the store for bread and you come back back with Wonder bread instead of Pepperidge Farm. There is a difference.

[riggofan]

Pre cap means to me = before Mara implemented the cap hit we and Dallas took. So before that. No its like sending you to the store for bread and you come back back with Wonder bread instead of Pepperidge Farm. There is a difference.

Ok, Wonder Bread/Pepperidge Farm. If you send me to the store with $2, you're getting Wonder Bread even if we both know Pepperidge Farm is better.

I know what you mean by pre-cap, I just don't know what players/positions specifically you're saying are pre-cap, bad personnel decisions. There are a lot of glaring needs on the team that just couldn't get fixed, because of the cap penalty.