Where are you at on this whole team name change thing?

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:43 am

Kilmer72 wrote:
grampi wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:Personally if we are forced to change the name, I would hope we can be something close, like the Washington Braves, personally I think a name change is ridiculous and some people are just consistent whiners that need to complain about things that make no sense. Welcome the America 21st century. This country should worry about the mass killings against the Indian's and Columbus having a Federal Holiday and he massacred how many Indians? How many Indians were killed when they were forced onto reservations? America should stop this crazy campaign and compensate them better than worrying about a football name. Heck one of the greatest Indians was named Crazy Horse, what's next a campaign to change that because it insults horses??

You know, this whole thing isn't about changing the name so much for me (though it has been the team name for over 80 years now and is now a tradition) as it is about principle. It seems the thing to do these days if you don't like something and you're part of a fringe/minority group, all you have to do is protest it, and eventually they'll get their way...I hate the whole notion of the few forcing the many to make concessions just to please them, and every time these groups are successful, it only serves to fuel the fire for other fringe groups to do the same...it's the same thing with these people who either don't celebrate or believe in Christmas complaining every year about nativity scenes being displayed on public property...complain loud enough and long enough and it will be taken down...majority be damned!

+1

Even though it is principle, it also seems personal. I don't own the team but it feels like I am being robbed. It's coming. It will just take a while.

Mr. Snyder needs to stand his ground on this one...

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:05 am

I don't usually like to look at Krauthammer, much less listen to him, but I liked the majority of the article. But I disagree where implies to change it the name to simply, "Skins". The article talks about how word usage/definitions change over time. "Redskins" is a perfect example of that. The meaning has changed from descriptive term of war paint, to a slur against Native Americans to now a football team. Be honest with yourself...if you were standing in a crowded area (let's say airport) and someone said to you, "Hey look, there's a Redskin over there", the first thought in your mind would be "oh I wonder which player it is", you wouldn't be trying to scan the crowd to look for a Native American. The whole thing is silly.

Quackjack · Post by **Quackjack** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:01 pm

Just wanted to quickly add my two (outsider) cents.

The issue brought up by the media recently, concerning the name of the Washington Redskins, is whether or not the team name and mascot is offensive to Native Americans. Obviously, one would have to discern what the term 'redskins' even means. The foremost and most obvious meaning of the word connotates the color of a Native American's skin. If this is the case, it'd be no different than 'white' or 'black'. In fact, there seems to be no etymological evidence that the word "redskin" originally meant anything other than "an aborigine with red skin". Another possible origin of the word is the red war paint that Native people wore, which evidently meant a lot to half-Sioux-blooded former Redskins coach William Dietz. The third, which might cause some to cringe, refers to scalping ones enemies and leaving behind a red-skined remnant.

In any case, it is a historical fact that the Boston Braves changed their name to the Redskins to honor William Dietz and his herritage, regardless of the word's specific meaning. Four players on the team at the time who were also Native-blooded did not object. Thus, for eighty-one years, the Washington NFL team has been labeled the Redskins. Now, one might easily (and correctly) deride the team if they abused Native Americans and their image; however, I have been to several Redskins games (alongside living with many Redskins fans, including my father), and I can personally vouch for the fact that the Redskins team and their fans only hold honor and respect for Native Americans and their way of live. "Hail to the Redskins" is sung after every touchdown, the oft-criticized mascot portrays an anatomically correct, valiant-looking, dignified Native American warrior and fans of all races defend their team and its honor no matter how poorly the team is performing. How can one say this is mocking Native Americans?

The word "redskins" is at worst ambigious, with no clear intent to do harm now nor in 1933 when the team first changed its name. Dan Synder (owner of the Redskins) says here that a vast majority Natives Americans aren't offended by the name; the source he cites is unbiased.

The Washington Redskins, despite any contradicting reports, only keep the Native American image alive without demeaning them in any way.

welch · Post by **welch** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:24 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Personally if we are forced to change the name, I would hope we can be something close, like the Washington Braves, personally I think a name change is ridiculous and some people are just consistent whiners that need to complain about things that make no sense. Welcome the America 21st century. This country should worry about the mass killings against the Indian's and Columbus having a Federal Holiday and he massacred how many Indians? How many Indians were killed when they were forced onto reservations? America should stop this crazy campaign and compensate them better than worrying about a football name. ?

This seems right: we should consider the number of induians in North America when Europeans arrived compared to the number today (amost wiped out); the living conditions of the survivors (shortest expected life-span, highest rates of many sorts of disease, alcoholism, whatever else).

The name of Washington's NFL team seems a trivial issue compared to the lives that indians live today and can expect.

Granted, I have hailed the Redskins for about sixty years, and part of me just doesn't want to change the name, but it does seem far down on any list of things to be remedied.

TCIYM · Post by **TCIYM** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:52 pm

Commonality of usage matters. Where the comparison to other racial epithets falls short for me is in that the first thing most people think of when they hear "Redskins" is the professional football club. The same cannot be said for any of the other terms to which Redskins is being compared. Furthermore, if and when the term is used with a negative connotation it isn't capitalized. Capitalization is a sign of respect. The term has undoubtedly been used with a racist intent by someone, somewhere, at some time. So has that other term that some Blacks now use with one another like a term of endearment. Context matters there, and it matters here as well. #HTTR

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:00 pm

^^ You may want to change that reference in your penultimate sentence to "Black People". The term you used is pretty much the antithesis of your entire point.

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:17 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:If you were standing in a crowded area (let's say airport) and someone said to you, "Hey look, there's a Redskin over there", the first thought in your mind would be "oh I wonder which player it is", you wouldn't be trying to scan the crowd to look for a Native American.

^ This. I think the NFL team name is probably the ONLY use for the word these days. Like they all say, words change in meaning!

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:22 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:I don't usually like to look at Krauthammer, much less listen to him, but I liked the majority of the article. But I disagree where implies to change it the name to simply, "Skins".

I feel completely the same way about Krauthammer (as I'm sure some people here feel about the President). I just thought it was a pretty honest piece of writing from a conservative point of view, and I like that it didn't resort to histrionics or extreme(ly unlikely) examples of what might happen if the name was changed.

butterd97 · Post by **butterd97** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:53 pm

Dan Snyder needs to grow a set, get in front of the media and tell the world "NO, I'm not changing the name and will not ever consider it." Hey Obama , shouldn't you be worried about a country that is in the toliet instead of professional sports issues that don't concern you? Don't like the name?? Then stay the hell away from the games and don't watch. Washington DC , you got an issue too?? How about we pack this show up and relocate to Vegas or LA where the real money is to be made?!?

DaSkinz Baby · Post by **DaSkinz Baby** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:56 pm

butterd97 wrote:Dan Snyder needs to grow a set, get in front of the media and tell the world "NO, I'm not changing the name and will not ever consider it." Hey Obama , shouldn't you be worried about a country that is in the toliet instead of professional sports issues that don't concern you? Don't like the name?? Then stay the hell away from the games and don't watch. Washington DC , you got an issue too?? How about we pack this show up and relocate to Vegas or LA where the real money is to be made?!?

Snyder would never ever be man enough to say that, and he doesn't have too. He is always laughing all the way to the bank.....

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:56 pm

Snyder already said his piece on the whole name change thing and he's not backing down from it. He said he'll fight it until the end.

TCIYM · Post by **TCIYM** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:11 pm

emoses14 wrote:^^ You may want to change that reference in your penultimate sentence to "Black People". The term you used is pretty much the antithesis of your entire point.

I can't change it. It might offend the African-Americans. Or the Natives. :lol:

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:58 pm

butterd97 wrote:Dan Snyder needs to grow a set, get in front of the media and tell the world "NO, I'm not changing the name and will not ever consider it." Hey Obama , shouldn't you be worried about a country that is in the toliet instead of professional sports issues that don't concern you? Don't like the name?? Then stay the hell away from the games and don't watch. Washington DC , you got an issue too?? How about we pack this show up and relocate to Vegas or LA where the real money is to be made?!?

yee haw.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:00 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:
butterd97 wrote:Dan Snyder needs to grow a set, get in front of the media and tell the world "NO, I'm not changing the name and will not ever consider it." Hey Obama , shouldn't you be worried about a country that is in the toliet instead of professional sports issues that don't concern you? Don't like the name?? Then stay the hell away from the games and don't watch. Washington DC , you got an issue too?? How about we pack this show up and relocate to Vegas or LA where the real money is to be made?!?

Snyder would never ever be man enough to say that, and he doesn't have too. He is always laughing all the way to the bank.....

What are you dummies talking about??? This is what Snyder told the media just six months ago:

"We'll never change the name," Snyder told USA Today. "It's that simple. NEVER -- you can use caps."

So yeah he would be man enough, and he apparently doesn't need to grow a pair after all.

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:35 am

People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:45 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

I went out to start my car this morning and I saw bird crap on it.. I blamed Obama for this. Not sure how or why, but it felt like the patriotic thing to do. :lol:

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:27 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

Yeah, good luck with that rational point you just made.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:35 am

langleyparkjoe wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

I went out to start my car this morning and I saw bird crap on it.. I blamed Obama for this. Not sure how or why, but it felt like the patriotic thing to do.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:43 am

emoses14 wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

I went out to start my car this morning and I saw bird crap on it.. I blamed Obama for this. Not sure how or why, but it felt like the patriotic thing to do.

HILARIOUS!

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:46 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

Thank you. Your best post EVER.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:55 am

riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

Thank you. Your best post EVER.

He said far more than that... of course, it would not have helped make your point... but... let's just pretend he didn't.

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:13 am

My ten month old gets into everything and destroys my house. Thanks Obama.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:23 am

79% of native Americans polled said they DON'T find the team name "Redskins" offensive, so even the majority of the people claimed to be offended by the team name are not offended by it...to me this sounds like a classic example of yet another attempt by a few fringe lefties trying to use PC to force a vast majority to make concessions to please a few whiners...

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:23 am

Countertrey wrote:
riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

Thank you. Your best post EVER.
He said far more than that... of course, it would not have helped make your point... but... let's just pretend he didn't.

That's nonsense. StorminMormom is exactly right that Obama didn't just jump in on the issue. He was ASKED by a reporter.

I just re-watched the entire 70 second comment that Obama made, and I would LOVE to know what you think qualifies as "far more" in his comments. Please enlighten us.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/na ... n_redskins

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:25 am

riggofan wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:People need to stop with the Obama crap...he was asked a question by a reporter and simply said if he was the owner he'd "think about changing the name"...not that he would, or that Snyder should, just that if he were the OWNER he would consider it. He didn't "weigh in" at all, he simply answered a question.

Thank you. Your best post EVER.
He said far more than that... of course, it would not have helped make your point... but... let's just pretend he didn't.

That's nonsense. StorminMormom is exactly right that Obama didn't just jump in on the issue. He was ASKED by a reporter.

I just re-watched the entire 70 second comment that Obama made, and I would LOVE to know what you think qualifies as "far more" in his comments. Please enlighten us.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/na ... n_redskins

A proper response to the question would've been "no comment"...