tribeofjudah's Bible study

[Deadskins]

Your first misconception is that it is "my" Bible. Second would be what I have tried to point out to you in every conversation we've had on the subject; you are trying to take literal interpretations of the stories in the Bible (all your examples are Old Testament, BTW) to prove that it offers no value as a religious text.

On a side note: I don't understand your objection to the first three (or two to four, depending on your source) Commandments. Why does God explaining that He is the only true God, and that everything that follows, hangs on that principle, bring out such a harsh reaction from you?

[Cappster]

Your first misconception is that it is "my" Bible. Second would be what I have tried to point out to you in every conversation we've had on the subject; you are trying to take literal interpretations of the stories in the Bible (all your examples are Old Testament, BTW) to prove that it offers no value as a religious text.

On a side note: I don't understand your objection to the first three (or two to four, depending on your source) Commandments. Why does God explaining that He is the only true God, and that everything that follows, hangs on that principle, bring out such a harsh reaction from you?

If you are a Christian, then it IS your holy bible. I've never heard of a christian seemingly trying to distance themselves from the book that is the basis of their religion. If the literal interpretation of Adam and Eve is not literally true, that man ate the forbidden fruit and was punished by god, the whole basis of Jesus dying for original sin is for naught which pretty means Christianity was founded on false pretenses.

What is valuable as religious text? If something is holy, and we are talking about divinely guided by god, why is it so fallible?

With god commanding that he is the true and only jealous god, over the first 4 commandments, the ten commandments has no justifiable grounds to be moral guiding light. And that is not a harsh reaction as it is just the truth. If god was just and loving, he would've spoken out about things such as slavery, war, sex crimes, etc... Unfortunately, I know this is hard, but a just and loving god didn't write the ten commandments. It was written by man and this is the one true fact that is irrefutable.

If you want a Jesus quote:

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Well, Jesus, I guess we should all strive to be poor and struggle in life so that we may have everlasting life worshiping you, the father, and the holy spirit. Maybe this is why children are starving right now and yet god wishes to do nothing to ease their hunger pains...

[Deadskins]

I've never heard of a christian seemingly trying to distance themselves from the book that is the basis of their religion.

Again, the Bible is NOT the basis of the Christian religion. You do realize that Christianity pre-dates the New Testament, don't you? Is the Redskins' playbook the basis of the team? Is the user's manual you got with your TV the basis of the unit? Are the set-up instructions you got with your IKEA bookshelf the basis for that piece of furniture?

And, I'm not trying to distance myself from it. I just object to your calling it "my" bible. I'm assuming you are referencing the King James version when you talk about the Bible, but you have no idea what I consider the Bible to be. For the purposes of this discussion, though, we can use the King James version as the de facto Bible.

If the literal interpretation of Adam and Eve is not literally true, that man ate the forbidden fruit and was punished by god, the whole basis of Jesus dying for original sin is for naught which pretty means Christianity was founded on false pretenses.

Show me anywhere it is written in the Bible, that Jesus died for original sin. Original sin has been used as a reason for the necessity of a virgin birth (not saying that I agree with that causality). Maybe that's what's confusing you.

What is valuable as religious text? If something is holy, and we are talking about divinely guided by god, why is it so fallible?

You're the one saying it's divinely guided by God, not I. Both the New and Old Testament were written by man, not God. And as such, they are fallable, as is man. That doesn't mean that there isn't value there as text that can bring you to a closer understanding of God and His works.

With god commanding that he is the true and only jealous god, over the first 4 commandments, the ten commandments has no justifiable grounds to be moral guiding light.

I still don't understand how you're making that connection. And I don't read jealousy into the first 2/3/4 commandments, the way you do. Couldn't it be that God is just giving instructions that other gods (not necessarily deities, but money, power, etc.) are the path to moral downfall?

And that is not a harsh reaction as it is just the truth.

Yes, your interperetation is harsh, and no, it's not the truth.

If god was just and loving, he would've spoken out about things such as slavery, war, sex crimes, etc...

I say that He has, many times over. In fact, all of that is covered by the Ten Commandments. Should God have also spoken to people 4000 years ago about the perils of internet porn? If people followed the commandments to the letter, none of those evils would exist.

Unfortunately, I know this is hard, but a just and loving god didn't write the ten commandments. It was written by man and this is the one true fact that is irrefutable.

All your posts up to this point have been making the exact opposite argument.

If you want a Jesus quote:

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Well, Jesus, I guess we should all strive to be poor and struggle in life so that we may have everlasting life worshiping you, the father, and the holy spirit. Maybe this is why children are starving right now and yet god wishes to do nothing to ease their hunger pains...

Do you think it's possible that Jesus wasn't condemning rich people en masse, but rather making a statement about what gods a "rich man" might be worshipping before God?

[Cappster]

LOL...oh my...gawd.

Yes, obviously there were people who followed christ before the new testament was written. If you go to church, what book are they going to tell you to open and read from? The...uh...oh yeah..the bible. Christ may be the centerpiece, to christians, but the teaching of christ comes from the holy bible. And you know, the bible IS different to every christian as, again, they pick and choose what parts of the bible they want to be relevant to them.

Slavery? Nah, I don't agree with that part. Homos? They deserve to be second class citizens, because that is what the bible commands. Work on the sabbath? A man's gotta eat. Polygamy? The bible says its okay and I do too.

The god of the universe, for as much as he wants to be known/praised/worshiped, really likes to keep the mystery going doesn't he? He has man write books for him that are full of fallacies and contradictions, we can pick and choose which parts of his holy texts to believe, and through all of the confusion if you don't believe in him he will punish the ones he loves most with the most damning of penalties. Makes perfect sense.

[Deadskins]

If you go to church, what book are they going to tell you to open and read from? The...uh...oh yeah..the bible.

Nope, the Book of Common Prayer. Obviously, you don't go to church much. Funny, considering how you're such an expert on the subject. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

[Cappster]

If you go to church, what book are they going to tell you to open and read from? The...uh...oh yeah..the bible.

Nope, the Book of Common Prayer. Obviously, you don't go to church much. Funny, considering how you're such an expert on the subject. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

LOL. I have been to church many times in my life (I have a baptist background) and the bible has always been the source book for the sermon. Anglicans may use the book of common prayer with cherry picked passages, but it is still encouraged that members read the bible aka the source text. The book of common prayer is still based on biblical passages and teachings. Again, you are trying to distance yourself from the bible, but with being a self-proclaimed christian, you just cannot get away with it.

[Deadskins]

If you go to church, what book are they going to tell you to open and read from? The...uh...oh yeah..the bible.

Nope, the Book of Common Prayer. Obviously, you don't go to church much. Funny, considering how you're such an expert on the subject. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

LOL. I have been to church many times in my life (I have a baptist background) and the bible has always been the source book for the sermon. Anglicans may use the book of common prayer with cherry picked passages, but it is still encouraged that members read the bible aka the source text. The book of common prayer is still based on biblical passages and teachings. Again, you are trying to distance yourself from the bible, but with being a self-proclaimed christian, you just cannot get away with it.

You said previously, the book you are asked to read from in church is the Bible. Now you are saying the sermon is based on the Bible. Duh! Even in Baptist services, the congregation is not reading from the Bible. As for the Book of Common Prayer being cherry-picked parts of the Bible, you couldn't be more wrong again. The BCP is basically a service guide that covers rituals developed as church doctrine. It really doesn't pull from the Bible other than for the Lord's Prayer and Psalms. Again, why would I want to distance myself from the Bible? Your suggestion that I'm doing so is laughable. I'm merely trying to explain to you that to cherry-pick passages (which is what you've been the one doing) to take literally, when it is obvious that the Old Testament was written by people, from stories passed doen over generations of oral history. If you really want to talk to me about Christianity and the Bible, you need to be referencing passages from the New Testament, as that is what's relavent to Christ.

[SkinsJock]

Went to church yesterday - the only books 'available' were the BCP and the hymnal ...

I know that some people take the Bible to church and there are some 'available' there but the Bible is not used or needed to worship on Sundays at most Episcopalian services that I go to

[Mississippiskinsfan2]

BTW ... here's a link to the stuff below:

http://preposterousuniverse.com/writings/dtung/

Does the Universe Need God?
If we can make it work with out him does that mean there is no god?

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

In many religious traditions, one of the standard roles of the deity has been to create the universe. The first line of the Bible, Genesis 1:1, is a plain statement of this role. Much has happened, both in our scientific understanding of the universe and in the development of theology, since that line was first written. It's worth examining what those developments imply for the relationship between God and cosmology.

In some ways of thinking about God, there's no relationship at all; a conception of divinity that is sufficiently ineffable and transcendent may be completely separate from the workings of the physical world. In addition to the role of creator, God may also be invoked as that which sustains the world and allows it to exist, or more practically as an explanation for some of the specific contingent properties of the universe we observe.

Each of these possibilities necessarily leads to an engagement with science. Modern cosmology attempts to come up with the most powerful and economical possible understanding of the universe that is consistent with observational data. It's certainly conceivable that the methods of science could lead us to a self-contained picture of the universe that doesn't involve God in any way. If so, would we be correct to conclude that cosmology has undermined the reasons for believing in God, or at least a certain kind of reason?

This is not an open-and-shut question. We are not faced with a matter of judging the merits of a mature and compelling scientific theory, since we don't yet have such a theory. Rather, we are trying to predict the future: will there ever be a time when a conventional scientific model provides a complete understanding of the origin of the universe? Or, alternatively, do we already know enough to conclude that God definitely helps us explain the universe we see, in ways that a non-theistic approach can never hope to match?

Most modern cosmologists are convinced that conventional scientific progress will ultimately result in a self-contained understanding of the origin and evolution of the universe, without the need to invoke God or any other supernatural involvement. This conviction necessarily falls short of a proof, but it is backed up by good reasons.

Thanks I meant to put that in there but forgot to. I think it has to work with out God for it to work at all. And I dont think God can just do whatever he wants to do because one small thing out of place would make it fall apart. In my mind there is nothing we could find to disprove God or to prove there is a God but God himself.

[Mississippiskinsfan2]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

[Cappster]

If you go to church, what book are they going to tell you to open and read from? The...uh...oh yeah..the bible.

Nope, the Book of Common Prayer. Obviously, you don't go to church much. Funny, considering how you're such an expert on the subject. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

LOL. I have been to church many times in my life (I have a baptist background) and the bible has always been the source book for the sermon. Anglicans may use the book of common prayer with cherry picked passages, but it is still encouraged that members read the bible aka the source text. The book of common prayer is still based on biblical passages and teachings. Again, you are trying to distance yourself from the bible, but with being a self-proclaimed christian, you just cannot get away with it.

You said previously, the book you are asked to read from in church is the Bible. Now you are saying the sermon is based on the Bible. Duh! Even in Baptist services, the congregation is not reading from the Bible. As for the Book of Common Prayer being cherry-picked parts of the Bible, you couldn't be more wrong again. The BCP is basically a service guide that covers rituals developed as church doctrine. It really doesn't pull from the Bible other than for the Lord's Prayer and Psalms. Again, why would I want to distance myself from the Bible? Your suggestion that I'm doing so is laughable. I'm merely trying to explain to you that to cherry-pick passages (which is what you've been the one doing) to take literally, when it is obvious that the Old Testament was written by people, from stories passed doen over generations of oral history. If you really want to talk to me about Christianity and the Bible, you need to be referencing passages from the New Testament, as that is what's relavent to Christ.

Okay, so the Episcopalian church seems to use the BCP for their church services. Where do they find the information about christ that they use for praise? Some other man made doctrine other than the bible? And I disagree about Baptist sermons not using the bible. They like to sing songs and all of that to "praise the lawd;" however, they ask people to turn to "insert part of bible here" to read along about the part they are going to deliver their sermon about. There is a collection of states in America called the "bible belt" for a reason...

When I point out passages, it is usually the ones that religious people want to gloss over or say "that is old testament so it doesn't count." I hope you realize that Yahweh, god of the old testament, resides in heaven too. You know that destructive deity that rained down merciless punishment to humans. Again, a "holy" book shouldn't be as fallible to have the old testament within its pages if it isn't meant to be taken seriously. The whole Yahweh the father and Jesus the son, all of which are the same person, reminds me of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. The god of the bible seems to be a rather schizophrenic deity.

Anyway, here is some scripture from Matthew:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Hmmmm..."Does the will of his father?" Ah, silly Jesus, the old testament doesn't count! On a side note, how can a deity so loving declare something so unrighteous and cruel? Does this really sound like "love?"

[Cappster]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

No. That is, unless, we have some sort of self fulfilling prophecy by members of one of the leading mythological religions that will usher mankind to its doom. Unless an asteroid hits Earth, in theory, we should be able to survive until the sun burns out in a few billion years.

[SkinsJock]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

I have faith that we're going to continue to be here for some time to come

[Mississippiskinsfan2]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

No. That is, unless, we have some sort of self fulfilling prophecy by members of one of the leading mythological religions that will usher mankind to its doom. Unless an asteroid hits Earth, in theory, we should be able to survive until the sun burns out in a few billion years.

In theory yes but you and I both know things will have to change for us to make it there. At some point money will have to be done away with because it is the biggest thing that holds us back. You seem to have some really strong feelings with religion and that seems to keep you from having peace in your life. Religion has its place in our world and we would not be where we are today with out it.Most people would not make it through the day with out it and as much wrong you can find in it you can find that much good that has come because of it.

[Cappster]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

No. That is, unless, we have some sort of self fulfilling prophecy by members of one of the leading mythological religions that will usher mankind to its doom. Unless an asteroid hits Earth, in theory, we should be able to survive until the sun burns out in a few billion years.

In theory yes but you and I both know things will have to change for us to make it there. At some point money will have to be done away with because it is the biggest thing that holds us back. You seem to have some really strong feelings with religion and that seems to keep you from having peace in your life. Religion has its place in our world and we would not be where we are today with out it.Most people would not make it through the day with out it and as much wrong you can find in it you can find that much good that has come because of it.

There is no doubt about the disdain I have for religion, but to say that my life without being religious keeps me from having peace is just not true. In this forum, I am opinionated, but no one knows what I am like with friends, family, and life in general.

You say money is holding us back? I agree to an extent that greed is a detrimental contributing factor to our overall society. Do you not think that religion has done far more harm in impeding progress of mankind? The dark ages stagnated progress for centuries, people use religion to back bigoted viewpoints, some want to usher in gods return by destroying the rest of us, etc...

Secular values are much more fruitful than those found in religious texts. With me being an athiest, if I do wrong then I own it and I am held accountable for my actions. If a religious person does wrong, they put it on their god to deal with the issue. Religion is on the decline and for that I am encouraged. I am encouraged, because people are starting to question mythological writings with logic and reasoning. If there is a god, he/she/it shouldn't play these shadow games and should come out to show himself to everyone in the world in the same manner.

Think about this: Would you rather live in a society without religion or a society without science?

[Mississippiskinsfan2]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

No. That is, unless, we have some sort of self fulfilling prophecy by members of one of the leading mythological religions that will usher mankind to its doom. Unless an asteroid hits Earth, in theory, we should be able to survive until the sun burns out in a few billion years.

In theory yes but you and I both know things will have to change for us to make it there. At some point money will have to be done away with because it is the biggest thing that holds us back. You seem to have some really strong feelings with religion and that seems to keep you from having peace in your life. Religion has its place in our world and we would not be where we are today with out it.Most people would not make it through the day with out it and as much wrong you can find in it you can find that much good that has come because of it.

There is no doubt about the disdain I have for religion, but to say that my life without being religious keeps me from having peace is just not true. In this forum, I am opinionated, but no one knows what I am like with friends, family, and life in general.

You say money is holding us back? I agree to an extent that greed is a detrimental contributing factor to our overall society. Do you not think that religion has done far more harm in impeding progress of mankind? The dark ages stagnated progress for centuries, people use religion to back bigoted viewpoints, some want to usher in gods return by destroying the rest of us, etc...

Secular values are much more fruitful than those found in religious texts. With me being an athiest, if I do wrong then I own it and I am held accountable for my actions. If a religious person does wrong, they put it on their god to deal with the issue. Religion is on the decline and for that I am encouraged. I am encouraged, because people are starting to question mythological writings with logic and reasoning. If there is a god, he/she/it shouldn't play these shadow games and should come out to show himself to everyone in the world in the same manner.

Think about this: Would you rather live in a society without religion or a society without science?

Your disdain you have for religion keeps you from having peace. Understanding will bring you peace not religion. I'm not really sure why you try to disprove something that dose not exist. It is on the people who believe to prove there is a God and to disprove all the other ones.

Yes but then thats more to do with people in the religion really. Reigion has been used by many to get money and power. Many let their fear and the fact they did not understand what was really going on around get in the way. So blame the people not the religion.

Angels on the sideline,Baffled and confused.Father blessed them all with reason.And this is what they choose. If anyone does wrong they own it. It is who you are.

You cant have one without the other really. I mean religion was science back in the day.

[Countertrey]

Did so...
Did not...
Did so...
Did not...

Don't force yours on me, and I won't force mine on you.

This thread is simply tedious. Debating religion is like wrestling in mud. Somebody might win... but everyone gets dirty. Goes for the zealot... and for the activist athiest.

Word.

[Cappster]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

No. That is, unless, we have some sort of self fulfilling prophecy by members of one of the leading mythological religions that will usher mankind to its doom. Unless an asteroid hits Earth, in theory, we should be able to survive until the sun burns out in a few billion years.

In theory yes but you and I both know things will have to change for us to make it there. At some point money will have to be done away with because it is the biggest thing that holds us back. You seem to have some really strong feelings with religion and that seems to keep you from having peace in your life. Religion has its place in our world and we would not be where we are today with out it.Most people would not make it through the day with out it and as much wrong you can find in it you can find that much good that has come because of it.

There is no doubt about the disdain I have for religion, but to say that my life without being religious keeps me from having peace is just not true. In this forum, I am opinionated, but no one knows what I am like with friends, family, and life in general.

You say money is holding us back? I agree to an extent that greed is a detrimental contributing factor to our overall society. Do you not think that religion has done far more harm in impeding progress of mankind? The dark ages stagnated progress for centuries, people use religion to back bigoted viewpoints, some want to usher in gods return by destroying the rest of us, etc...

Secular values are much more fruitful than those found in religious texts. With me being an athiest, if I do wrong then I own it and I am held accountable for my actions. If a religious person does wrong, they put it on their god to deal with the issue. Religion is on the decline and for that I am encouraged. I am encouraged, because people are starting to question mythological writings with logic and reasoning. If there is a god, he/she/it shouldn't play these shadow games and should come out to show himself to everyone in the world in the same manner.

Think about this: Would you rather live in a society without religion or a society without science?

Your disdain you have for religion keeps you from having peace. Understanding will bring you peace not religion. I'm not really sure why you try to disprove something that dose not exist. It is on the people who believe to prove there is a God and to disprove all the other ones.

Yes but then thats more to do with people in the religion really. Reigion has been used by many to get money and power. Many let their fear and the fact they did not understand what was really going on around get in the way. So blame the people not the religion.

Angels on the sideline,Baffled and confused.Father blessed them all with reason.And this is what they choose. If anyone does wrong they own it. It is who you are.

You cant have one without the other really. I mean religion was science back in the day.

Religion was never science. God was invoked when humans didn't understand things such as earthquakes and comets. Now that we do have an understanding of such natural events, you could say that science is peeling back religion/god to the point where it is no longer useful to believe in such things.

I don't care if people practice any religion of their choice. I do mind when their bat S crazy ideas infiltrate public policy making that affects all of our lives. The main thing I want people to do is question why they believe they way they do. Blind faith without even bothering to think critically about what you are choosing to believe in is an injustice to ones self. I go through this with my girlfriend who claims to be Catholic, but more so just by title only. She doesn't really believe in biblical fairy tales, but doesn't want to separate herself from the indoctrination from her youth and the social impact it would have if she renounced her Catholicism. So turns a blind eye and forces herself to believe in make believe.

[langleyparkjoe]

My church still uses the bible.. the old version with thou and thus and shalt.

[SkinsJock]

I'm not sure why anyone should feel that they are 'indoctrinated' just by attending church services with their families and loved ones ..

I don't feel a need to 'justify' anything - I just feel a need to give thanks for all the blessings of a family that now includes grandchildren ...

why all the anger and frustration - just being alive is truly a blessing ....


I'm certainly not going to give any credence to 'science' for that

[Deadskins]

If you go to church, what book are they going to tell you to open and read from? The...uh...oh yeah..the bible.

Nope, the Book of Common Prayer. Obviously, you don't go to church much. Funny, considering how you're such an expert on the subject. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

LOL. I have been to church many times in my life (I have a baptist background) and the bible has always been the source book for the sermon. Anglicans may use the book of common prayer with cherry picked passages, but it is still encouraged that members read the bible aka the source text. The book of common prayer is still based on biblical passages and teachings. Again, you are trying to distance yourself from the bible, but with being a self-proclaimed christian, you just cannot get away with it.

You said previously, the book you are asked to read from in church is the Bible. Now you are saying the sermon is based on the Bible. Duh! Even in Baptist services, the congregation is not reading from the Bible. As for the Book of Common Prayer being cherry-picked parts of the Bible, you couldn't be more wrong again. The BCP is basically a service guide that covers rituals developed as church doctrine. It really doesn't pull from the Bible other than for the Lord's Prayer and Psalms. Again, why would I want to distance myself from the Bible? Your suggestion that I'm doing so is laughable. I'm merely trying to explain to you that to cherry-pick passages (which is what you've been the one doing) to take literally, when it is obvious that the Old Testament was written by people, from stories passed doen over generations of oral history. If you really want to talk to me about Christianity and the Bible, you need to be referencing passages from the New Testament, as that is what's relavent to Christ.

Okay, so the Episcopalian church seems to use the BCP for their church services. Where do they find the information about christ that they use for praise? Some other man made doctrine other than the bible? And I disagree about Baptist sermons not using the bible. They like to sing songs and all of that to "praise the lawd;" however, they ask people to turn to "insert part of bible here" to read along about the part they are going to deliver their sermon about. There is a collection of states in America called the "bible belt" for a reason...

When I point out passages, it is usually the ones that religious people want to gloss over or say "that is old testament so it doesn't count." I hope you realize that Yahweh, god of the old testament, resides in heaven too. You know that destructive deity that rained down merciless punishment to humans. Again, a "holy" book shouldn't be as fallible to have the old testament within its pages if it isn't meant to be taken seriously. The whole Yahweh the father and Jesus the son, all of which are the same person, reminds me of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. The god of the bible seems to be a rather schizophrenic deity.

Anyway, here is some scripture from Matthew:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Hmmmm..."Does the will of his father?" Ah, silly Jesus, the old testament doesn't count! On a side note, how can a deity so loving declare something so unrighteous and cruel? Does this really sound like "love?"

Can you read? I never said the Old Testament didn't count. I said The Old Testament was written hundreds of years before the New, from stories passed down over thousands of years by oral history, and as such needs to be read with that in mind. You can't take those passages literally the way you are, to try and force some deep-seated anger you harbor, onto God. You brougth up stoning people as a punishment for sinning, but Jesus said, "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

I also agreed (not disagreed) with you about sermons being based on Bible passages (usually the day's Gospel passage), so I have no idea what point you think you're making there.

As for the BCP, the rites contained within are not biblical, but constructed by the early church councils, such as the Council of Nicea, from with came the Nicean Creed. This was where the doctrine of the Holy Trinity was established, so that worshipping Jesus did not fly in the face of the first two commandments.

Come back to me when you have something new to offer..

[Deadskins]

If a religious person does wrong, they put it on their god to deal with the issue.

Say what?

Think about this: Would you rather live in a society without religion or a society without science?

Why can't we have both?

By the way, religion is not responsible for the dark ages or the repression of scienctific discovery, or any of the other attrocities done over the years in the name of God. We've been over this before. If people followed the Ten Commandments to the letter, then those attrocities would have never occured. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, doesn't make them one. It's actions that count.

[Deadskins]

The main thing I want people to do is question why they believe they way they do.

Check out a mirror some day. I don't think you know what you believe. I tried to help you answer some of these questions you have a couple of pages ago with the whole "spirit energies" discussion, but you got upset when you couldn't reconcile your beliefs with the front you are trying to put up.

[Deadskins]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

That depnds. What do you mean by end times? The second coming?

[tribeofjudah]

Do any of you think we are in the end of times? And why?

That depnds. What do you mean by end times? The second coming?

It is near, my Friends..........even at the door.

Signs of the time are Everywhere...