Official 2013 Draft Thread

[Deadskins]

Far better to gamble on a player who could make an impact then to take a safe pick we immediately start looking to upgrade.

+1

Played poker like this Friday night at a full table. Pocket jacks look great pre-flop but look real bad when they miss the flop (a safe pick we immediately start looking to upgrade) and 5 other guys who called your raise are still active. Meanwhile, that 10-9 sure made an impact when I flopped the nuts (gamble on a player who could make an impact) against 5 limpers and then stacked 2 of 'em.

If it's the nuts, then by definition it's not a gamble.

[SouthLondonRedskin]

Jawan Jamison looks like the real deal. That spin move at the 1:58 mark? Sick. Between him and Thompson, one of these guys should be the change of pace back we were looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ChWgdz6ls

Hogster, do you think Jamison or Thompson are better than a fully fit Helu..?

If these two are fit and look good in training camp, is Royster's spot under threat..?

How many spots for RBs will we have..? Morris, Young are locked in, Helu is as well if he's fit I reckon.

[Deadskins]

Helu is as well if he's fit I reckon.

I'm not so sure about that.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Helu is as well if he's fit I reckon.

I'm not so sure about that.

I completely agree. I think if he's not healthy again, we move on. There's no point in keeping a roster spot for a guy who's never available to play.

[DarthMonk]

Far better to gamble on a player who could make an impact then to take a safe pick we immediately start looking to upgrade.

+1

Played poker like this Friday night at a full table. Pocket jacks look great pre-flop but look real bad when they miss the flop (a safe pick we immediately start looking to upgrade) and 5 other guys who called your raise are still active. Meanwhile, that 10-9 sure made an impact when I flopped the nuts (gamble on a player who could make an impact) against 5 limpers and then stacked 2 of 'em.

If it's the nuts, then by definition it's not a gamble.

Not true on at least two counts. First of all, it was a gamble to play 10-9 pre-flop. Secondly, being the nuts after the flop does not mean they will hold up on the turn and river. Thus, the gambling continued. As a matter of fact, the turn paired the board opening up the possibility of a full house for someone else. I said I flopped the nuts. I didn't say I turned or rivered them.

For example, if a player holds 7♠ 8♠ on a board of 5♣ 6♠ 9♥ he is said to have flopped the nuts, however if the next card comes 7♥ then 8-10 becomes the nuts. If someone holds that he just turned the nuts.

Jokes are welcomed.

The point is, I gambled on a hand (10-9) that had a lot more upside ("could make an impact") against an active table than pocket jacks do while I lost with a "safe hand" (pocket jacks) because too many people hung around after my raise and after flopping air I was immediately "looking to upgrade."

Oh, and BTW, we never kicked off against the Ginas in the Wind Bowl.

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ked#610925

[Deadskins]

That's not the way I've ever heard the term used. Having the nuts is basically saying your hand is unbeatable.

[The Hogster]

Jawan Jamison looks like the real deal. That spin move at the 1:58 mark? Sick. Between him and Thompson, one of these guys should be the change of pace back we were looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ChWgdz6ls

Hogster, do you think Jamison or Thompson are better than a fully fit Helu..?

If these two are fit and look good in training camp, is Royster's spot under threat..?

How many spots for RBs will we have..? Morris, Young are locked in, Helu is as well if he's fit I reckon.

I recall Kyle and Mike Shanahan referring to Helu as not being tough during his rookie year. So, in my view, I would guess that the staff feels that there is better out there. I would answer this in the affirmative in favor of Thompson for sure, but his injury is a factor. I read that he is expected to be ready to go full-go this training camp. If he is, I expect him to beat out Helu. Helu is a good straight line speed guy, but he's not what most would consider a change of pace back.

I think that Helu or Royster will both be in competition for their jobs. A big part of the deal will also be pass protection. Change of pace guys usually come in on 3rd downs--passing downs. And, the knock on Helu was that he couldn't pass block, while the slower Royster could.

If we find that Darren Sproles or Ray Rice type, who can move the chains on 3rd down without being a protection risk, I think one or both of the RBs we have now are out of jobs.

[The Hogster]

Jawan Jamison looks like the real deal. That spin move at the 1:58 mark? Sick. Between him and Thompson, one of these guys should be the change of pace back we were looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ChWgdz6ls

Hogster, do you think Jamison or Thompson are better than a fully fit Helu..?

If these two are fit and look good in training camp, is Royster's spot under threat..?

How many spots for RBs will we have..? Morris, Young are locked in, Helu is as well if he's fit I reckon.

I recall Kyle and Mike Shanahan referring to Helu as not being tough during his rookie year. So, in my view, I would guess that the staff feels that there is better out there. I would answer this in the affirmative in favor of Thompson for sure, but his injury is a factor. I read that he is expected to be ready to go full-go this training camp. If he is, I expect him to beat out Helu. Helu is a good straight line speed guy, but he's not what most would consider a change of pace back.

I think that Helu or Royster will both be in competition for their jobs. A big part of the deal will also be pass protection. Change of pace guys usually come in on 3rd downs--passing downs. And, the knock on Helu was that he couldn't pass block, while the slower Royster could.

If we find that Darren Sproles or Ray Rice type, who can move the chains on 3rd down without being a protection risk, I think one or both of the RBs we have now are out of jobs.

[emoses14]

Jawan Jamison looks like the real deal. That spin move at the 1:58 mark? Sick. Between him and Thompson, one of these guys should be the change of pace back we were looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ChWgdz6ls

Hogster, do you think Jamison or Thompson are better than a fully fit Helu..?

If these two are fit and look good in training camp, is Royster's spot under threat..?

How many spots for RBs will we have..? Morris, Young are locked in, Helu is as well if he's fit I reckon.

I recall Kyle and Mike Shanahan referring to Helu as not being tough during his rookie year. So, in my view, I would guess that the staff feels that there is better out there. I would answer this in the affirmative in favor of Thompson for sure, but his injury is a factor. I read that he is expected to be ready to go full-go this training camp. If he is, I expect him to beat out Helu. Helu is a good straight line speed guy, but he's not what most would consider a change of pace back.

I think that Helu or Royster will both be in competition for their jobs. A big part of the deal will also be pass protection. Change of pace guys usually come in on 3rd downs--passing downs. And, the knock on Helu was that he couldn't pass block, while the slower Royster could.

If we find that Darren Sproles or Ray Rice type, who can move the chains on 3rd down without being a protection risk, I think one or both of the RBs we have now are out of jobs.

Well thompson certainly is tough, coming back once already from 2 broken vertebrae and looking amazing prior to his knee injury. IF he is able to recover from his most recent knee injury the way he did from the 2 vertebrae break and look like he did when he healthy for FSU, we are going to fall in love with this guy. He is a lot tougher, as a runner, than you might expect from a guy that fast.

[Deadskins]

I think Thompson will knock Helu off the roster. It will be between Royster and Jamison for the last spot.

[emoses14]

By the way, where in the world is Caneskins? I wanna jaw with him a bit about 2 new seminoles in the fold. I don't think I've seen anything from him in a while.

I am an FSU fan, for sure and I love the Thomspon pick, shoot, I love the Jenkins pick too. Hope their injuries pan out, but I have more faith in Jenkins doing so than Thompson. With a knee injury to a speed guy, I'm wary (yes, I'm ignoring that elephant in the room regarding the other speed guy on our roster making it back from his knee injury, thank you.)

[DarthMonk]

That's not the way I've ever heard the term used. Having the nuts is basically saying your hand is unbeatable.

Only at that juncture. I hear it used this way frequently on TV. Regardless, it was a pre-flop gamble and that's when I said I gambled in the original post. The point of the post was to compare upside picks to safe picks. The poker analogy was fine and the gamble existed pre-flop regardless of your interpretation of the nuts.

pokerterms.com ~ ... the term is commonly used to describe the best possible hand at any given point during play.

Here's a related usage from the movie Rounders.

I call.

Check.

Two grand.

All right, I'll call the two grand. I'll gamble.

Don't splash the pot.

You're on a draw, Mike? Go away.

This one is not good for you.

And in my club, I will splash the pot whenever the () I please.

Okay.

[Sighs]

I'm gonna check, Teddy.

That's right.

Big daddy...

bets...

the pot.

That's .

All right, I'm gonna call you, or else I won't respect myself tomorrow morning.

Respect is all you'll have left in the morning.

Last card coming.

Check.

It hurts, doesn't it?

You can't believe what fell.

All your dreams... dashed.

Hopes down the () drain.

Your fate, he is sitting right beside you.

That ace could not have helped you.

[Chips Rattling]

I bet it all.

You're right, Teddy. The ace didn't help me.

I flopped a nut straight.

[Deadskins]

Your Rounders example didn't help your case.

But I'll take your word for it.

[SouthLondonRedskin]

I think Thompson will knock Helu off the roster. It will be between Royster and Jamison for the last spot.

Really..? I don't think so, not if Helu is fully fit.

Maybe we've forgotten how impressive Helu was in his first few games for us, and he has done it in the NFL, whilst the others haven't as of yet. So if he is fit and looking sharp then I say he gets the nod.

The last spot would go to who's better in pass protection probably.

Having said that, Helu has a long way to go to prove his injuries are behind him, if he breaks down at all between now and August his place is likely gone.

[UK Skins Fan]

I think Thompson will knock Helu off the roster. It will be between Royster and Jamison for the last spot.

Really..? I don't think so, not if Helu is fully fit.

Maybe we've forgotten how impressive Helu was in his first few games for us, and he has done it in the NFL, whilst the others haven't as of yet. So if he is fit and looking sharp then I say he gets the nod.

The last spot would go to who's better in pass protection probably.

Having said that, Helu has a long way to go to prove his injuries are behind him, if he breaks down at all between now and August his place is likely gone.

Firstly, welcome back fella! Is it me, or did you disappear for weeks?

Second, re Helu: whilst he has done SOMETHING in the NFL, and flashed some ability, I don't think he's done anywhere enough for a sustained period to show the coaching staff that he is the man, or one of the men. If he is still on the roster when week one comes around, I sincerely hope it's because he's proven his fitness, and beaten everybody else to the job. With the players we've drafted in the last few days, the level of competition has been raised, and as long as the cream rises to the top, we should all be very happy

Helu and Royster have been placed on notice.

[Deadskins]

I think Thompson will knock Helu off the roster. It will be between Royster and Jamison for the last spot.

Really..? I don't think so, not if Helu is fully fit.

Maybe we've forgotten how impressive Helu was in his first few games for us, and he has done it in the NFL, whilst the others haven't as of yet. So if he is fit and looking sharp then I say he gets the nod.

The last spot would go to who's better in pass protection probably.

Having said that, Helu has a long way to go to prove his injuries are behind him, if he breaks down at all between now and August his place is likely gone.

Royster has shown more in the NFL than Helu. Plus, Helu is our current change-of-pace back, which would be the speedy Thomas's role. If one of our current backs gets ousted, it's going to be Helu.

[SouthLondonRedskin]

I think Thompson will knock Helu off the roster. It will be between Royster and Jamison for the last spot.

Really..? I don't think so, not if Helu is fully fit.

Maybe we've forgotten how impressive Helu was in his first few games for us, and he has done it in the NFL, whilst the others haven't as of yet. So if he is fit and looking sharp then I say he gets the nod.

The last spot would go to who's better in pass protection probably.

Having said that, Helu has a long way to go to prove his injuries are behind him, if he breaks down at all between now and August his place is likely gone.

Firstly, welcome back fella! Is it me, or did you disappear for weeks?

Second, re Helu: whilst he has done SOMETHING in the NFL, and flashed some ability, I don't think he's done anywhere enough for a sustained period to show the coaching staff that he is the man, or one of the men. If he is still on the roster when week one comes around, I sincerely hope it's because he's proven his fitness, and beaten everybody else to the job. With the players we've drafted in the last few days, the level of competition has been raised, and as long as the cream rises to the top, we should all be very happy

Helu and Royster have been placed on notice.

Yes mate, I've been utterly swamped workwise, been at it till 11pm most nights so not had the time or energy to post here to be honest. Developing an exciting new football/lifestyle magazine which is out later this year, also have an NFL mag in the pipeline for publication in the U.S in the planning stages (will be looking for some contributors and writers for that so watch this space as they say).

Back to topic; I get the feeling some people have forgotten that Helu is actually a very good RB who rattled up a few 100 yard games for us in his rookie year. The good people of this site actually voted him player of the year on offense that season (yes, we've come a long way quickly!).

He worked with a fractured offensive line and a dodgy passing game. He could be an excellent weapon alongside the passing game and stars we have now.

If he's fit I reckon he has a spot, but I haven't seen Thompson or Jamison play...

I get the feeling we're going to be letting go of some decent players to get down to 53. Ah, progress, beautiful, sweet progress...

[DarthMonk]

Your Rounders example didn't help your case.

But I'll take your word for it.

Sure it did - nuts at a juncture.

I have a lot of faith in Helu. He has tremendous talent. His pass pro was improving. He's extremely fast and elusive. He has good hands. My only concern is his health. I seem to recall him gutting it through a lot of camp before the brass shut him down. Could be wrong on that last point but that's what I recall.

Either way, I like the upside of the new guys.

[Deadskins]

I get the feeling some people have forgotten that Helu is actually a very good RB who rattled up a few 100 yard games for us in his rookie year.

And Royster had more, and a better per carry average.

[Deadskins]

Your Rounders example didn't help your case.

But I'll take your word for it.

Sure it did - nuts at a juncture.

Nope, he says the ace on the river didn't help him because he had the nuts on the flop.

[DarthMonk]

Your Rounders example didn't help your case.

But I'll take your word for it.

Sure it did - nuts at a juncture.

Nope, he says the ace on the river didn't help him because he had the nuts on the flop.

You switched sides (if you are saying nuts on the flop don't necessarily remain the nuts) and you are ...

... wrong again.

He (Damon) said the ace didn't help him (Damon) because his (Damon's) hand had nothing to do with aces. He held a straight to the 10. This is different than what you just said.

You're right, Teddy. The ace didn't help me.

I flopped a nut straight.

He held 9-8 pre-flop and flopped 6 7 10. Those were the nuts at that juncture and they held up. The nuts on the flop don't always remain the nuts after the turn and river. The turn and river could have come A 6 for instance. This time the nuts on the flop held up. When the final board shows 6 7 10 2 A the nuts are still a straight to the ten.

Also, your "Nope" misses the point. The point of the Rounders example is that the word nut or nuts applies to times other than the river and that the nuts can change as a hand progresses. You can keep trying if you want but you are wrong on this one - as we all are at times - me included.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RiuE1rWnso

[UK Skins Fan]

Your Rounders example didn't help your case.

But I'll take your word for it.

Sure it did - nuts at a juncture.

Nope, he says the ace on the river didn't help him because he had the nuts on the flop.

What in the hell are you people talking about?

[UK Skins Fan]

Yes mate, I've been utterly swamped workwise, been at it till 11pm most nights so not had the time or energy to post here to be honest. Developing an exciting new football/lifestyle magazine which is out later this year, also have an NFL mag in the pipeline for publication in the U.S in the planning stages (will be looking for some contributors and writers for that so watch this space as they say)

All sounds very interesting and exciting sir! Good to see you back - if you need any contributions from an ignorant basement dweller, then let me know

[DarthMonk]

Your Rounders example didn't help your case.

But I'll take your word for it.

Sure it did - nuts at a juncture.

Nope, he says the ace on the river didn't help him because he had the nuts on the flop.

What in the hell are you people talking about?

It started out as talking about gambling on upside vs. playing safe in the draft. Back up a few pages if you want to know more.

[Deadskins]

Your Rounders example didn't help your case.

But I'll take your word for it.

Sure it did - nuts at a juncture.

Nope, he says the ace on the river didn't help him because he had the nuts on the flop.

He (Damon) said the ace didn't help him (Damon) because his (Damon's) hand had nothing to do with aces. He held a straight to the 10. This is different than what you just said.

You're right, Teddy. The ace didn't help me.

I flopped a nut straight.

He held 9-8 pre-flop and flopped 6 7 10. Those were the nuts at that juncture and they held up. The nuts on the flop don't always remain the nuts after the turn and river. The turn and river could have come A 6 for instance. This time the nuts on the flop held up. When the final board shows 6 7 10 2 A the nuts are still a straight to the ten.

Obviously. My point was that he said he had the nuts at the flop, and I don't agree with you that the way he used the term implies that the nuts can change as the hand progresses.

Either way, this is a discussion for the lounge, and I already said I would take your word for it, so let it go already.