North Korea

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:00 pm

Countertrey wrote:BTW... please stop suggesting that we are too ignorant to "understand"... we understand that there are complexities... there were similar considerations in 1938... how effective was appeasement of the madman then? Shouldn't we learn from history?

Not having all the facts and information does not make anybody ignorant, it just often leads them to wrong and untimely conclusions.

It is precisely because history points at different directions and not only the one you highlight, which urges most leaders and experts to be cautious. Not a single respectable political leader or expert in the world is urging for military action in that region at this time.

You did not address any of the three items in my post above. I am not asking you to. I will only say that there is nothing wrong with TALKS, which do not mean CONCESSIONS at all.

There are a couple of very appropriate quotes from Leo Tolstoy (War and Peace ) and Sun Tzu (The Art of war) in these circumstances:

"The strongest of all warriors are these two: time and patience.”

and one of the ever favourites among military scholars

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:18 pm

The administration has already suggested that certain behaviors will yield consideration of reciprocation...
More of the same... It is not possible to negotiate in good faith with one who has no honor... we'll be here again in 2 years... except their weapons will be better... I have NO faith in this administration to deal effectively with this tyrant. They are even less capable than past administrations (which have failed repeatedly using the same strategy).

Only the PRC is capable of dealing with the thugs in P'yongyang without violence... and they will not... and "those who know"... simply advocate more of the same. Your choice of quotes is interesting... but, even "the supreme art of war" requires audacity... and a believable capacity to use force if warranted...
We certainly have that capacity... but P'yongyang has absolutely no concern that we would resolve to use it.

How did Reagan handle the Soviets?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:39 pm

RiC said:

The true important or even realistic issue is not whether military action might be taken but how those negotiations are conducted. And relating to that point, the strongest response should be: no food, no lifting of sanctions, no relief of any kind, no reward of any kind for criminal behaviour.

Here's my problem with this... criminal behavior is the norm for P'yongyang. It is a criminal cartel, headed by a thug. How many South Korean's have been murdered by this regime? How many Americans? Who has been held to account? No one. Ultimately, the North Korean temper tantrum results in getting their way... every time. They have always been rewarded... and they will be rewarded this time...

to our peril. The next time, perhaps the time after that... it will ultimately not be a bluff... What would your response be then??? "coulda, woulda, shoulda... "

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:58 am

On a lighter note: I went to see Olympus Has Fallen last night. Complete and utter garbage of course. Timely and topical garbage with a corny Independence Day style speech at the end. I think Gerard Butler may have shown us the way in this film: just kill everybody. It seemed to work for him.

I'd like to put on record that I only went to see this film because I was bored, NOT because I base my whole life on the teachings of Gerard Butler.

In the event that this whole Korea thing does, erm, blow up, please don't expect help from the UK. Our entire military now consists of two squads of soldiers, a Cessna with a front mounted water pistol, and a recently repaired inflatable dinghy.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:24 am

UK Skins Fan wrote:On a lighter note: I went to see Olympus Has Fallen last night. Complete and utter garbage of course. Timely and topical garbage with a corny Independence Day style speech at the end. I think Gerard Butler may have shown us the way in this film: just kill everybody. It seemed to work for him.

I'd like to put on record that I only went to see this film because I was bored, NOT because I base my whole life on the teachings of Gerard Butler.

In the event that this whole Korea thing does, erm, blow up, please don't expect help from the UK. Our entire military now consists of two squads of soldiers, a Cessna with a front mounted water pistol, and a recently repaired inflatable dinghy.

Whatever dude, the movie was good you American hater. :lol:

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:55 am

langleyparkjoe wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:On a lighter note: I went to see Olympus Has Fallen last night. Complete and utter garbage of course. Timely and topical garbage with a corny Independence Day style speech at the end. I think Gerard Butler may have shown us the way in this film: just kill everybody. It seemed to work for him.

I'd like to put on record that I only went to see this film because I was bored, NOT because I base my whole life on the teachings of Gerard Butler.

In the event that this whole Korea thing does, erm, blow up, please don't expect help from the UK. Our entire military now consists of two squads of soldiers, a Cessna with a front mounted water pistol, and a recently repaired inflatable dinghy.

Whatever dude, the movie was good you American hater.

Oh, I enjoyed it, but it was garbage nevertheless :-)

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:57 pm

Countertrey wrote:How did Reagan handle the Soviets?

He certainly did not nuke any of them. :lol:

And, while there is no doubt that his role was extremely important and even crucial, the persons who assisted him on the right -peaceful- strategy track were: Margaret Thatcher and John Paul II.

With great respect, I still wait to discover who among non-US international leaders can fill those two pairs of big empty shoes in the current generation.

Ahhhh! Just in case you thought this was an ethnocentric American issue. It is not. A great deal of the right approaches are born outside the USA. :wink:

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:59 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:In the event that this whole Korea thing does, erm, blow up, please don't expect help from the UK. Our entire military now consists of two squads of soldiers, a Cessna with a front mounted water pistol, and a recently repaired inflatable dinghy.

While reality is quite a bit different, recent and current UK "leaders" surely make it feel that way. I sympathise. :-({|=

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:30 pm

Countertrey wrote:How did Reagan handle the Soviets?

JOHN 'FRIGGIN' RAMBO!!!

:lol:

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:07 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:Oh, I enjoyed it, but it was garbage nevertheless

As a Skins fan under the ownership of Dan Snyder for most years, I know the feeling. :roll:

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:57 pm

My point, RiC was that the Soviets knew that he was absolutely resolute...
I doubt that any world leader would use that adjective to describe the current POTUS...

It certainly did not hurt that the Iron Lady and Pope John Paul were pushing hard, too...

BTW... the only person suggesting nuking anyone is a fat tyrant with bad hair...

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:06 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:Oh, I enjoyed it, but it was garbage nevertheless

As a Skins fan under the ownership of Dan Snyder for most years, I know the feeling.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:07 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
Countertrey wrote:How did Reagan handle the Soviets?

He certainly did not nuke any of them.

And, while there is no doubt that his role was extremely important and even crucial, the persons who assisted him on the right -peaceful- strategy track were: Margaret Thatcher and John Paul II.

With great respect, I still wait to discover who among non-US international leaders can fill those two pairs of big empty shoes in the current generation.

Ahhhh! Just in case you thought this was an ethnocentric American issue. It is not. A great deal of the right approaches are born outside the USA.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you (drum roll please).............

David Cameron!

I'll get my coat now.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:47 am

to solve this n korea issue, we need to send rodman over to make peace. and hopefully they keep him there. lol

HTTRRG3ALMO · Post by **HTTRRG3ALMO** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:17 am

langleyparkjoe wrote:to solve this n korea issue, we need to send rodman over to make peace. and hopefully they keep him there. lol

In the spirit of the NFL draft, perhaps the US can "trade up" for peace by offering Mr. Rodman. I think its a pretty good deal...who needs foods and water anyway :wink:

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:34 am

HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:to solve this n korea issue, we need to send rodman over to make peace. and hopefully they keep him there. lol

In the spirit of the NFL draft, perhaps the US can "trade up" for peace by offering Mr. Rodman. I think its a pretty good deal...who needs foods and water anyway

We're eye-eye on this one too!

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:55 pm

How ignorant can Rodman be, you ask?

PSY sets Rodman straight :roll:

HTTRRG3ALMO · Post by **HTTRRG3ALMO** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:46 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:
HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:to solve this n korea issue, we need to send rodman over to make peace. and hopefully they keep him there. lol

In the spirit of the NFL draft, perhaps the US can "trade up" for peace by offering Mr. Rodman. I think its a pretty good deal...who needs foods and water anyway

We're eye-eye on this one too!

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:18 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:David Cameron!

I do not think you have had a Statesman or Stateswoman as a leader from either party since Maggie. Did you see my "leaders" post above? It referred to all UK leaders since her.

It has always bewildered me why one of the least competent US Presidents in modern history would outplay a smarter and far better educated Labour PM at the time. I have read a couple on insightful analyses which aim to explain this dynamic but I am not yet convinced.

At least your former PM has a job in US academia (but students are apparently not allowed to ask questions or divulge the confidential nature of his lectures). :lol:

Too bad, I would have asked: How did you allow a less educated man to outplay you and got you to pursue such disastrous economic, military and foreign policies??? But I do not have a fortune to spend on tuition to ask that question. :wink:

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:02 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote: It has always bewildered me why one of the least competent US Presidents in modern history would outplay a smarter and far better educated Labour PM at the time.

Perhaps the answer lies in the BOLD, UNDERLINED, ITALICIZED, YELLOW word above.

:wink:

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:42 pm

Countertrey wrote:My point, RiC was that the Soviets knew that he was absolutely resolute...
I doubt that any world leader would use that adjective to describe the current POTUS...

It certainly did not hurt that the Iron Lady and Pope John Paul were pushing hard, too...

BTW... the only person suggesting nuking anyone is a fat tyrant with bad hair...

Not a "world leader" but right before he died this guy knew:

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:40 pm

^ Beyond silly... Seal Team 6 got Osama.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:29 am

^