So the spin doctors are out in full force, wanting people to believe that somehow, someway, even though RG3 has a previous injury in the same knee, even though he had two different areas of the knee worked on, he is possible to come back 2 months SOONER than Peterson did? Who had no cartilege or previous ligament damage and who when he came back at 8 months, was proclaimed a medical miracle?
Me thinks someone doesn't want the truth out or lest it hurt Shanny's rep, but also the all important season ticket sales.
Any and All News About RG3's Knee - Merged
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threeflight
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threeflight
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If I was a Redskins fan, I'd be hoping they put RG3 on IR the entire season. The 6 months time frame being thrown around is completely ridiculous, especially considering this is already his second tear and he had a LCL tear to go along with it. Just for reference, here is a list of Giants players who have torn their ACL twice. Only one has managed to successfully come back and continue playing (Hixon).
Name | First tear | Second Tear | Time between tears
Domenik Hixon June 2010 Sept 2011 9 months
Clint Sintim Dec 2010 Sept 2011 9 months
Brian Witherspoon Aug 2011 May 2012 9 months
Jonathan Goff Sept 2011 July 2012 9 months
Terrell Thomas Aug 2011 Aug 2012 12 months *also tore ACL in college
Terrell Thomas is the player most comparable to RG3. Terrell Thomas tore his ACL in college, came back and had a few good, healthy years in the NFL. When he tore it for the second time, he had an entire 12 months off being he needed to do anything. He tore it a 3rd time after slipping on a non-contact drill in training camp.
I guarantee if RG3 is on the field in 6 months, his career is as good as over.
Name | First tear | Second Tear | Time between tears
Domenik Hixon June 2010 Sept 2011 9 months
Clint Sintim Dec 2010 Sept 2011 9 months
Brian Witherspoon Aug 2011 May 2012 9 months
Jonathan Goff Sept 2011 July 2012 9 months
Terrell Thomas Aug 2011 Aug 2012 12 months *also tore ACL in college
Terrell Thomas is the player most comparable to RG3. Terrell Thomas tore his ACL in college, came back and had a few good, healthy years in the NFL. When he tore it for the second time, he had an entire 12 months off being he needed to do anything. He tore it a 3rd time after slipping on a non-contact drill in training camp.
I guarantee if RG3 is on the field in 6 months, his career is as good as over.
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threeflight
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Check out this article, it explains a lot of questions.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...ery-for-rg-iii
"Another thing to consider is that with a second reconstruction of the same knee it is sometimes difficult to get exactly the same alignment of the second graft because the placement of the first graft has already caused anatomic changes (i.e., the original hole required to pass the first graft)," Chris wrote. "Even a slight change in that alignment can alter the load sharing between the ligaments in the knee. Think about the knee like a marionette, with each string on the marionette representing one of the ligaments in the knee. If you were to change the position of the string on the handle (malignant) or lengthen the string (laxity in the ligament) you would dramatically change how you could control the marionette."
Basically, they have to poke another new hole in his knee to insert the new ligament through. That changes the anatomical structure of the knee, and because the ligament will move from its original and even secondary position to a tertiary position, you are talking about a much different angle which affects the load bearing of all the ligaments.
For example, female athletes have a 3x higher rate of ACL tears than men because they have wider hips, putting more load on the ACL because the angle of hip-to-knee causes greater torque on the ACL.
And this is what they said in the article:
"Anytime you have a second insult to a knee, it's less favorable than the first, and having another procedure is less ideal. I don't know, when he had his original reconstruction, whether they used his patellar tendon [to repair the ACL]. But if they did use it, obviously they can't use it again, so what do they do? Do they use his other patellar tendon? Do they use a hamstring graft? That would have a lot to do with his recovery time. And then there's the issue of whether there's any cartilage damage in the knee as a result of this injury. When you're talking about the life span of his knee, that's going to be one of the big elements -- not just the ligament, but how healthy is the joint itself?"
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...ery-for-rg-iii
"Another thing to consider is that with a second reconstruction of the same knee it is sometimes difficult to get exactly the same alignment of the second graft because the placement of the first graft has already caused anatomic changes (i.e., the original hole required to pass the first graft)," Chris wrote. "Even a slight change in that alignment can alter the load sharing between the ligaments in the knee. Think about the knee like a marionette, with each string on the marionette representing one of the ligaments in the knee. If you were to change the position of the string on the handle (malignant) or lengthen the string (laxity in the ligament) you would dramatically change how you could control the marionette."
Basically, they have to poke another new hole in his knee to insert the new ligament through. That changes the anatomical structure of the knee, and because the ligament will move from its original and even secondary position to a tertiary position, you are talking about a much different angle which affects the load bearing of all the ligaments.
For example, female athletes have a 3x higher rate of ACL tears than men because they have wider hips, putting more load on the ACL because the angle of hip-to-knee causes greater torque on the ACL.
And this is what they said in the article:
"Anytime you have a second insult to a knee, it's less favorable than the first, and having another procedure is less ideal. I don't know, when he had his original reconstruction, whether they used his patellar tendon [to repair the ACL]. But if they did use it, obviously they can't use it again, so what do they do? Do they use his other patellar tendon? Do they use a hamstring graft? That would have a lot to do with his recovery time. And then there's the issue of whether there's any cartilage damage in the knee as a result of this injury. When you're talking about the life span of his knee, that's going to be one of the big elements -- not just the ligament, but how healthy is the joint itself?"
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Mississippiskinsfan2
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The Hogster
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The Hogster
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People are confusing recovery with performance. Adrian Peterson's "recovery" was on schedule with other athletes who have torn knee ligaments. The phenomal aspect of Peterson's case, is the level at which he's played after that 8 1/2 period, and the position he plays.
He plays a position that demands a lot from the knees, and he came back just as explosive--if not moreso--than he was before. Most people expected him to gradually get back into form. He hit the ground running as if he had a regular offseason and actually improved in many ways.
There is no doubt that RGIII will be "recovered" from his surgery by September. The only question is whether he will be able to be the same player right away. Some of us are optimistic because he is a freakish athlete with a freakish work ethic, much like Peterson.
Others think that he should rest for 12 months to be safe. What they base this on? Who knows.
All in all, it's not up to us. So, I'll trust what I know and have seen from RGIII, and that's that if anyone can return from this injury and be better than ever, it's guys like AP and RGIII. Based on everything I read, the rehab process will determine how quickly he regains his world class explosion. Adrian Peterson said in an interview that he's better now because the knee is more structurally sound AND that rehabbing forced him to pay more attention to his body. To take more time with strengthening his body.
For me, I think of what RGIII will look like on the field with a strong knee, and much more powerful quads, calves, hamstrings, core muscles etc. He has no choice but to become even more of a freak. And that has me optimistic.
He plays a position that demands a lot from the knees, and he came back just as explosive--if not moreso--than he was before. Most people expected him to gradually get back into form. He hit the ground running as if he had a regular offseason and actually improved in many ways.
There is no doubt that RGIII will be "recovered" from his surgery by September. The only question is whether he will be able to be the same player right away. Some of us are optimistic because he is a freakish athlete with a freakish work ethic, much like Peterson.
Others think that he should rest for 12 months to be safe. What they base this on? Who knows.
All in all, it's not up to us. So, I'll trust what I know and have seen from RGIII, and that's that if anyone can return from this injury and be better than ever, it's guys like AP and RGIII. Based on everything I read, the rehab process will determine how quickly he regains his world class explosion. Adrian Peterson said in an interview that he's better now because the knee is more structurally sound AND that rehabbing forced him to pay more attention to his body. To take more time with strengthening his body.
For me, I think of what RGIII will look like on the field with a strong knee, and much more powerful quads, calves, hamstrings, core muscles etc. He has no choice but to become even more of a freak. And that has me optimistic.
SPIT HAPPENS!!
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RayNAustin
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The Hogster wrote:Stop whining. What's done is done. We aren't playing this weekend because we lost. Should we, could we, and would we have won with a healthy RGIII?? Yes.
But, that wasn't the case, and it does nothing to cry over spilled milk. Let's hope that he can put this knee issue behind him now that it's been repaired. The positive aspect of this is that structurally his knee will be stronger than ever. And, at age 22, he should regain his strength, speed, and explosiveness a lot quicker than he would if he were 29 or so.
That's nonsense. The outcome of that game is the most inconsequential of the issues here. This franchise made a huge investment in this Kid ... and by the way ... the pain and suffering and rehab he'll have to endure over the next several months also happens to be more important than this one "precious game", considering he was dealt for to play these types of games for the next dozen or more years. That's the point!
RELATIVE TO THAT POINT, comes the very simple and logical, time tested philosophy of assessing the factors that contributed to this disastrous result, for the equally important effort to avoid repeating the same mistakes. It's not an exercise that can change the damage already done, but preventing it from happening again is a worthy cause.
This C'est la vie attitude really chaps my rear end, as it totally dismisses the need for doing just that .. assessing how this happened, and how the risk of it happening again can be minimized. Of course injuries cannot be prevented, but the decisions that lead to "unnecessary risk" of injury is what we're dealing with, particularly if that involves carelessness or negligence in the way this situation was handled by people who should KNOW BETTER, and not allow the outcome of a single game, or the wants and desires of a 22 year old player overrule those who are in charge that should exercise better judgement. To heck with Andrews and Shanahan's obvious self serving CYA exercises after the fact .... that is to be expected, and I predicted that too.
There is no big mystery why ... out of the top rookie QB's that had came out this year ... that it was only RG3 who finished in a fetal position in the freaking dirt, and facing major reconstructive knee surgery. This result was a fear voiced all year by many around the league who suggested that he'd not last very long with the way he was being used, including yours truly. That is an undeniable fact, and a situation that needs further scrutiny given those warnings have become reality.
The situation is only exacerbated by the fact that RG3 was allowed to hobble around for 3 quarters, virtually incapacitated, when anyone with a marginal grasp of common sense would have pulled him from the game after it was clear he was not capable of even protecting himself. Race Horses are treated with better care and caution than was offered this kid, who didn't know better, and shouldn't be expected to take himself out of the game.
His Coach has that responsibility, but even now, after the fact, he won't own it, and neither will his Son who's reckless abandon in the way he utilized this kids skills ALL YEAR ... including such bone headed decisions like sending him out as a freaking wide receiver, may have been successful in producing exciting results, but at what cost?
If you ask me, there should be some shared costs for this disaster ... rather than the entire bill be paid by RG3 in his pain and suffering ... particularly when what he might have to look forward to is just more of the same, from the same "blameless", when he eventually returns.
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RayNAustin
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SkinsJock wrote:I look forward to seeing if RG3 can actually end up being a little faster than he was in 2012
Stop it. Just stop. RG3 is not an automobile, and Andrews is not installing a Super Charger or Nitrous tank.
Great googly moogly. Pretty soon, we'll see the sign ... "Come in and get your knees reconstructed to enhance athletic performance" ... we guarantee a 10% increase because we're smarter than God.
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RayNAustin
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The Hogster wrote:People are confusing recovery with performance. Adrian Peterson's "recovery" was on schedule with other athletes who have torn knee ligaments. The phenomal aspect of Peterson's case, is the level at which he's played after that 8 1/2 period, and the position he plays.
He plays a position that demands a lot from the knees, and he came back just as explosive--if not moreso--than he was before. Most people expected him to gradually get back into form. He hit the ground running as if he had a regular offseason and actually improved in many ways.
There is no doubt that RGIII will be "recovered" from his surgery by September. The only question is whether he will be able to be the same player right away. Some of us are optimistic because he is a freakish athlete with a freakish work ethic, much like Peterson.
Others think that he should rest for 12 months to be safe. What they base this on? Who knows.
All in all, it's not up to us. So, I'll trust what I know and have seen from RGIII, and that's that if anyone can return from this injury and be better than ever, it's guys like AP and RGIII. Based on everything I read, the rehab process will determine how quickly he regains his world class explosion. Adrian Peterson said in an interview that he's better now because the knee is more structurally sound AND that rehabbing forced him to pay more attention to his body. To take more time with strengthening his body.
For me, I think of what RGIII will look like on the field with a strong knee, and much more powerful quads, calves, hamstrings, core muscles etc. He has no choice but to become even more of a freak. And that has me optimistic.
I'd prefer he grow 4 more inches in height, gain 40 more pounds, and then maybe he'd be used as a QB instead of a tackling dummy.
The Hogster wrote:This is more about his agenda to convince people to panic, than it is about actually seeing what happens.
Agreed. NOBODY KNOWS for sure how this is going to play out...RG3 may not be able to play at all this year, or he may be ready for the 1st preseason game....it's all speculation at this point...
The Hogster wrote:People are confusing recovery with performance. Adrian Peterson's "recovery" was on schedule with other athletes who have torn knee ligaments. The phenomal aspect of Peterson's case, is the level at which he's played after that 8 1/2 period, and the position he plays.
He plays a position that demands a lot from the knees, and he came back just as explosive--if not moreso--than he was before. Most people expected him to gradually get back into form. He hit the ground running as if he had a regular offseason and actually improved in many ways.
There is no doubt that RGIII will be "recovered" from his surgery by September. The only question is whether he will be able to be the same player right away. Some of us are optimistic because he is a freakish athlete with a freakish work ethic, much like Peterson.
Others think that he should rest for 12 months to be safe. What they base this on? Who knows.
All in all, it's not up to us. So, I'll trust what I know and have seen from RGIII, and that's that if anyone can return from this injury and be better than ever, it's guys like AP and RGIII. Based on everything I read, the rehab process will determine how quickly he regains his world class explosion. Adrian Peterson said in an interview that he's better now because the knee is more structurally sound AND that rehabbing forced him to pay more attention to his body. To take more time with strengthening his body.
For me, I think of what RGIII will look like on the field with a strong knee, and much more powerful quads, calves, hamstrings, core muscles etc. He has no choice but to become even more of a freak. And that has me optimistic.
Hogster you didn't happen to read that article where they quoted Peterson's physical therapist/man in charge of rehab did ya?
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Scottskins
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You guys are crazy. The fact is, shanahan isn't going anywhere, rg3 will heal, probably quicker because of who he is, and the question of should he have played and when, simply doesn't matter. Snyder, shanahan and rg3 have and will discuss this thing to death, and undoubtedly will many more times. They will handle it, and none of us will be privy to those conversations. Let it go already.
Death to the EGO! RIP 21
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Per DR ANDREWS HIMSELF
“Robert Griffin III had successful knee surgery early this morning. He had a direct repair of his LCL and a re-do of his previous ACL reconstruction. We expect a full recovery and it is everybody’s hope and belief that due to Robert’s high motivation, he will be ready for the 2013 season. The goal of his treatment is to give him the best opportunity for a long professional career.”
SPIT HAPPENS!!
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All of this back and forth on whats going on with his knee is busy work for idle hands. I say he'll be playing week 1. Some say he should be out until 2014.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/what-rg3- ... O3C0m-5NjQ
This article lays out what the options are with regard to recovery depending on what the surgery actually was. For me, it crystallizes that even a Dr. doesn't know until the rehab starts, the knee and progress are monitored and the individual responds to tests the timetable.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/what-rg3- ... O3C0m-5NjQ
This article lays out what the options are with regard to recovery depending on what the surgery actually was. For me, it crystallizes that even a Dr. doesn't know until the rehab starts, the knee and progress are monitored and the individual responds to tests the timetable.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"
-Santana Moss on Our QB
I AM NOT A DOCTOR of anything
I've heard that the early period of the rehab (6-8 weeks?) is VERY important ..
I understand that this 'early' rehab time is going to be in Florida - that's nice
I do think that RG3 will 'apply' himself and get all the support and encouragement he needs to get "well" again ..
the kid is VERY special and if AP can do it I have every faith that RG3 will be fine too - this kid is an Olympic level athlete
I look for the knee to be in even better 'shape' than it was and for RG3 to be even more motivated (than AP was) to come back and lead his team
Faster and Wiser baby
I've heard that the early period of the rehab (6-8 weeks?) is VERY important ..
I understand that this 'early' rehab time is going to be in Florida - that's nice
I do think that RG3 will 'apply' himself and get all the support and encouragement he needs to get "well" again ..
the kid is VERY special and if AP can do it I have every faith that RG3 will be fine too - this kid is an Olympic level athlete
I look for the knee to be in even better 'shape' than it was and for RG3 to be even more motivated (than AP was) to come back and lead his team
Faster and Wiser baby
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
emoses14 wrote:All of this back and forth on whats going on with his knee is busy work for idle hands. I say he'll be playing week 1. Some say he should be out until 2014.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/what-rg3- ... O3C0m-5NjQ
This article lays out what the options are with regard to recovery depending on what the surgery actually was. For me, it crystallizes that even a Dr. doesn't know until the rehab starts, the knee and progress are monitored and the individual responds to tests the timetable.
I'm looking for faster and wiser
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
This is just hyperbole and speculation so dont take it to seriously. I am just thinking what ifs here.
But what if Griffin already tore the ACL back at the Ravens game? They have the MRI results were he is going to require surgery.
RG3 says to the doctors and coaching staff that he wants to keep playing if he is going to have to have surgery anyways. So the Doctor and team put out a false report saying no structural damage.
Remember when we beat the Ravens we still had a couple of games to win. The playoffs was not a sure thing until the end of the season.
RG3 tore his ACL in college during a game. He returned to play the same game plays later.
I am thinking he tore it that day. The Ravens game and Ngatas hit. He decides to just keep going this season knowing that he is going to have to have surgery anyways.
Just speculating here so take it easy. I am just saying what if.
But what if Griffin already tore the ACL back at the Ravens game? They have the MRI results were he is going to require surgery.
RG3 says to the doctors and coaching staff that he wants to keep playing if he is going to have to have surgery anyways. So the Doctor and team put out a false report saying no structural damage.
Remember when we beat the Ravens we still had a couple of games to win. The playoffs was not a sure thing until the end of the season.
RG3 tore his ACL in college during a game. He returned to play the same game plays later.
I am thinking he tore it that day. The Ravens game and Ngatas hit. He decides to just keep going this season knowing that he is going to have to have surgery anyways.
Just speculating here so take it easy. I am just saying what if.
Sean Taylor starting free safety Heavens team!
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CanesSkins26
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grampi wrote:The Hogster wrote:This is more about his agenda to convince people to panic, than it is about actually seeing what happens.
Agreed. NOBODY KNOWS for sure how this is going to play out...RG3 may not be able to play at all this year, or he may be ready for the 1st preseason game....it's all speculation at this point...
Exactly. All doctors can do is give an estimate and we don't even have that from the Dr. Andrews right now so it's all speculation. Different people heal at different speeds and there can always be setbacks, so nobody can know with any certainty when RGIII will be back. He's a hard worker so I'm certain he'll rehab hard so hopefully he is back sooner rather than later.
Suck and Luck
HEROHAMO wrote:This is just hyperbole and speculation so dont take it to seriously. I am just thinking what ifs here.
But what if Griffin already tore the ACL back at the Ravens game? They have the MRI results were he is going to require surgery.
RG3 says to the doctors and coaching staff that he wants to keep playing if he is going to have to have surgery anyways. So the Doctor and team put out a false report saying no structural damage.
Remember when we beat the Ravens we still had a couple of games to win. The playoffs was not a sure thing until the end of the season.
RG3 tore his ACL in college during a game. He returned to play the same game plays later.
I am thinking he tore it that day. The Ravens game and Ngatas hit. He decides to just keep going this season knowing that he is going to have to have surgery anyways.
Just speculating here so take it easy. I am just saying what if.
I know you're speculating but I highly doubt if ANY coaching staff would be that stupid even though the Chargers did it during the playoffs with Rivers; RG3 is a rookie, the season wasn't over, and we still had a ways to go before locking up a playoff seed at the time. That would be like putting 5 bullets in a revolver and playing russian roulette.
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CanesSkins26
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TimSkin wrote:HEROHAMO wrote:This is just hyperbole and speculation so dont take it to seriously. I am just thinking what ifs here.
But what if Griffin already tore the ACL back at the Ravens game? They have the MRI results were he is going to require surgery.
RG3 says to the doctors and coaching staff that he wants to keep playing if he is going to have to have surgery anyways. So the Doctor and team put out a false report saying no structural damage.
Remember when we beat the Ravens we still had a couple of games to win. The playoffs was not a sure thing until the end of the season.
RG3 tore his ACL in college during a game. He returned to play the same game plays later.
I am thinking he tore it that day. The Ravens game and Ngatas hit. He decides to just keep going this season knowing that he is going to have to have surgery anyways.
Just speculating here so take it easy. I am just saying what if.
I know you're speculating but I highly doubt if ANY coaching staff would be that stupid
Highly unlikely. If the team did something like that they'd get hit with major sanctions by the NFL.
Suck and Luck
Dr Andrews has issued a statement. He expects RG3 to be ready for next season.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... octor-says
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... octor-says
Sean Taylor starting free safety Heavens team!
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You guys are crazy. The fact is, shanahan isn't going anywhere, rg3 will heal, probably quicker because of who he is, and the question of should he have played and when, simply doesn't matter. Snyder, shanahan and rg3 have and will discuss this thing to death, and undoubtedly will many more times. They will handle it, and none of us will be privy to those conversations. Let it go already.
Death to the EGO! RIP 21
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HTTRRG3ALMO
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SkinsJock wrote:I am done reading about "the knee" OR hearing from quacks
ALL THAT MATTERS to me is what Dr Andrews says and intimates ...
The bad news is that RG3 has some damage to the ACL and the LCL - THAT IS ALL
The good news is that he's already had the surgery (Wednesday morning) and there's a chance that he could be ready to play in September
This kid is an exceptional athlete with "world class" ability - I expect to see him back behind center this season and playing better than we saw in 2012
END OF DOOM AND GLOOM
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