If cousins starts vs browns: We will lose

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:53 pm

just reading the title of this thread... and got a chuckle.

You bama, how'd that work out for you?

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:41 pm

It was a good game yesterday, but still not sure I see anybody dishing out a first round pick to us for Cousins any time soon.

I'll make this case too. You could trade KC for a high pick and I guess maybe draft a young CB or Safety or whatever. Then you have to spend money on a free agent QB. Or you could keep KC on his VERY reasonable rookie contract (his cap# next year is $500K!) and have money to spend on the secondary.

Just saying, I don't know that I would be so fast to trade away a known, quality QB to roll the dice on a draft pick.

DaSkinz Baby · Post by **DaSkinz Baby** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:49 pm

funsho2 wrote:Cousins is not RG3....RG3 have not turn over the ball like luck this year thats one of the thing that makes him special....kirk will turn the ball over vs a great browns defense.....and we will lose at a critical time....michael jordan played while he was sick....if rg3 can go lets go....these are critical games....if we win out we will win either the division or a wild card spot

So did you ever come back to the thread and eat your words?? Just wondering..... :lol:

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:00 pm

Why are some of you talkin about trading Cousins? I honestly can't see any logic in that at all.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:01 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:So did you ever come back to the thread and eat your words?? Just wondering.....

LOL

A lot of people usually don't come back bro.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:11 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Why are some of you talkin about trading Cousins? I honestly can't see any logic in that at all.

To get better at a position of more desperate need.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:16 pm

Deadskins wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:Why are some of you talkin about trading Cousins? I honestly can't see any logic in that at all.

To get better at a position of more desperate need.

and possibly go back to Rex Grossman as a backup?

Still.. I can't see the logic in getting rid of Cousins.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:23 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:Why are some of you talkin about trading Cousins? I honestly can't see any logic in that at all.

To get better at a position of more desperate need.

and possibly go back to Rex Grossman as a backup?

Still.. I can't see the logic in getting rid of Cousins.

I'm with you LPJ. No way I am trading away a guy we know can play QB to draft a CB. Like you said, we are one hit away from being Rex Grossman's team again. Forget that!!!! We can draft a corner in the 2d round or pick one up in FA.

PFW had a pretty good post on this today too:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... e-cousins/

Many (me included) think the Redskins would be crazy to flip Cousins for draft picks in the offseason.

Though the Redskins need to fill the void created by picks given up for Griffin with the kind of low-cap players that can be acquired for four years with draft picks, they drafted Cousins for one very important reason: with a quarterback who is prone to contact (and thus injury) via designed runs and options, the Redskins need a reliable backup.

So now that they have a reliable backup, why in the hell would they trade him?

If Cousins go, who takes over as the backup who likely will be used if/when Griffin is injured? Would they use another fourth-round pick in 2013 on a quarterback and hope for the best?

The best approach is to keep Cousins for four years, wish him well when he leaves as a free agent, and then have a new plan for 2016 and beyond.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:56 pm

People need to STOP and THINK ...

we are very fortunate to be where we are and we really still have a lot of areas of concern ...
we knew going into this season (even before the injuries) that we still had a lot of work to do in order to be a consistently competitive team

WE'RE playing very well and we've been very fortunate - I think we still have the same O line we started with :shock:

As far as Kirk Cousins is concerned - nobody's doing anything until we see all the ramifications of who will be available to play and what can we get in return

I very much doubt that Grossman is here next year even if we decide to trade Kirk

I do think that this FO will try and get as many draft picks as they can because we're still looking at some cap penalties

we need depth and we need a couple of good starters

We are NOT letting Kirk go without getting a lot in return - that was a major factor in getting him - he's a lot better than the "price" we paid

WE NEED DEPTH .. and ... WE NEED MORE DEPTH

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:04 pm

I'd be really sad to see Cousins go this offseason. In the long-term I think it's both Cousins' and the Redskins' best interests to trade him to a team where he can start.

But that's in the long-term. In the meantime I'd like to see us continue to get our value on that 4th round pick on the field. Like it or not, RGIII is likely going to miss at least a game or so per season, and I'd love for us not to assume those are likely to be losses. Cousins brings so much to the table.

Then again, if some team wants to throw a 1st and a 2nd at us this March . . .

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:08 pm

RG3 is NOT going to be a player that we have to be concerned about like the PFW article is intimating

We all know that we will need a good quality back up QB but we also have other areas of concern - this FO is NOT letting Kirk go UNLESS we find a franchise that really wants him ...

and

We did NOT get Kirk to be THE back up QB - he was too good a value is WHY we made the pick :lol:

too many here are drinking the cool aid and not recognizing the reality of what is actually happening

we are very fortunate to be in the position we're in ...
BUT ... we STILL have many areas of concern that we need to address

Kirk is a very good QB and deserves a chance - IF we don't get what he's worth this offseason he's still going to be here ...

another great decision by this FO :wink:

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:26 pm

I sort of agree with what you're saying, SJ - at least as far as a draft pick goes. If a team were to offer us a first rounder for Cousins, I have to admit we would probably have to take that deal. (I still kind of doubt anybody is giving us a first rounder based on KC's body of work to date. See: Flynn, Matt. Kolb, Kevin.)

I'm not sure what you're saying though that RGIII is not going to be a player we have to worry about. He's already been knocked out of two games this season and missed another. If we didn't have Cousins here, that would have been Rex under center last weekend.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:21 pm

The best approach is to keep Cousins for four years, wish him well when he leaves as a free agent, and then have a new plan for 2016 and beyond.

No, the best approach would be to keep him three years, then trade him for value before he becomes a FA. :roll:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:37 pm

OK - I hear you guys and I understand where your concerns are ...

I feel that RG3 and Kyle will figure out how to both be really effective and also take less chances with the chances of anything happening

This offense is not a QB running type offense and while anyone can get hurt at any time, I think RG3 and Kyle understand that the most important thing for this franchise is to have RG3 playing QB

any player at any time can get hurt playing the game - I think Kyle and RG3 recognize that they can be very effective without CONSTANTLY putting RG3 in situations where he could get hurt - we're going to see more and more from RG3 but not to the extent that it puts him in harms way any more than is needed to be a really good and dangerous QB

I'm looking forward to it

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:42 pm

Deadskins wrote:
The best approach is to keep Cousins for four years, wish him well when he leaves as a free agent, and then have a new plan for 2016 and beyond.

No, the best approach would be to keep him three years, then trade him for value before he becomes a FA.

MAYBE - what if another franchise wants to make a stupid offer for him in the next year or 2?

let's see how things go - we're in the drivers seat and this kid is worth a lot more than we gave ...

how sweet it is and how lucky are we to have this FO :twisted:

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:46 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
The best approach is to keep Cousins for four years, wish him well when he leaves as a free agent, and then have a new plan for 2016 and beyond.

No, the best approach would be to keep him three years, then trade him for value before he becomes a FA.

MAYBE - what if another franchise wants to make a stupid offer for him in the next year or 2?

Then you take the deal. If KC, JAX, the Cards, or Oakland want's to give up the first overall pick, then you ask "where do I sign?"

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:32 am

Deadskins wrote:Then you take the deal. If KC, JAX, the Cards, or Oakland want's to give up the first overall pick, then you ask "where do I sign?"

Won't get a peep outta me in that scenario.. see ya Cousins! :lol:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:10 am

let me add - I'm with you guys in that Kirk is looking like he gives us a really good back up QB and that's great ...

all I'm pointing to is that we have a FO that fully understands that and will ONLY make a deal for Kirk that clearly is worth losing that security

can you believe that from the last draft we got RG3, Alfred Morris and Kirk Cousins - I mean, how GREAT is this looking for our franchise

Mike & Bruce made some very bad moves early but recent additions have been GREAT

PLUS Pierre Garcon .... :lol:

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:33 pm

I figured Cousins would manage the game and squeak out a win. Not that he'd respond to them daring him to pass by... killing them with the pass.

To me, it showed two things:

1. He's a starting QB. Strong arm, accurate, poise, good play fakes, mostly good decisions. He's a backup for us that will win games, and we need him if RG3 is going to take downfield hits.

2. We probably DON'T need Kirk that badly, because the team just showed it can run a more traditional offense at a pretty high level. If this is what the team is transitioning to with RG3, then a home-run hitter at backup isn't as big of a necessity, as RG3 wouldn't be at risk of missing that much time.

Is there a better QB on the market right now than Cousins?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:39 pm

Hooligan wrote:1. He's a starting QB. Strong arm, accurate, poise, good play fakes, mostly good decisions.

IMO, he's also benefiting from being on a hot team right now. A team that has solidified. We also must give credit to the coaching and play calling. It's no coincidence that both he and RG have succeeded here.

Hooligan wrote: He's a backup for us that will win games, and we need him if RG3 is going to take downfield hits.

I agree that we need to keep him around buttttt, for the right price....

Hooligan wrote:2. We probably DON'T need Kirk that badly, because the team just showed it can run a more traditional offense at a pretty high level.

Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, we need everyone we can get. 5 wins doesn't mean we've arrived, yet. I don't think it should be shocking that they can run a "traditional" offense. All they did was revert back to Mike's old offense. RGIII had something custom tailored for him, we just went back to what a hybrid of what Rex and RGIII ran.

Hooligan wrote: If this is what the team is transitioning to with RG3, then a home-run hitter at backup isn't as big of a necessity, as RG3 wouldn't be at risk of missing that much time.

Is there a better QB on the market right now than Cousins?

QB's get destroyed in the pocket all the time... The risk is lower but not by much IMO, especially depending on who's blocking.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:36 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:QB's get destroyed in the pocket all the time... The risk is lower but not by much IMO, especially depending on who's blocking.

Actually, I think the risk is greater in the pocket. At least on the run, you can mitigate the damage by sliding or going OOB. In the pocket, the hits can come blindside, and there are all kinds of bodies flying everywhere to roll up on you.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:10 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:QB's get destroyed in the pocket all the time... The risk is lower but not by much IMO, especially depending on who's blocking.

Actually, I think the risk is greater in the pocket. At least on the run, you can mitigate the damage by sliding or going OOB. In the pocket, the hits can come blindside, and there are all kinds of bodies flying everywhere to roll up on you.

I tend to agree but RGIII has gotten hurt twice in the process of sliding too late. I think he learned a ton from the first hit, but the BAL play was in an effort to pick up the first down. He could have slide much earlier (and would have) but, didn't in order to get as much yardage as he could.. All he cared about was getting to the marker. It's sort of a "protect him from himself (and his competitve nature) type deal. Those types of plays happen and those types of situations can't be prevented other than by just not having a mobile QB. That is my greatest concern; more so than either staying in the pocket or rolling out -- I just worry that RGIII will be in a situation where he needs the yards and has to take that hit in order to get them.

I think that head injuries are clearly more widespread from the pocket since most hits come from defenders during their throw -- and the QB lands on his back (causing the back of his helmet to slam to the turf) while his arms are tied up by the defender. I don' think that is a concern with RGIII.

The one GREAT thing from last week was that teams may no longer look at RGIII as our entire team. I believe that a good deal of opponents wanted to "knock" RGIII out of the game because they thought our offense couldn't execute without him. Now that KC has come in and performed well, perhaps the RGIII head-hunting won't be as commonplace.

Hooligan · Post by **Hooligan** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:31 pm

markshark84 wrote:
The one GREAT thing from last week was that teams may no longer look at RGIII as our entire team. I believe that a good deal of opponents wanted to "knock" RGIII out of the game because they thought our offense couldn't execute without him. Now that KC has come in and performed well, perhaps the RGIII head-hunting won't be as commonplace.

Good point, and hopefully we'll hear less "RG3 is your only offense" from other fans.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:26 am

I'm a bit late coming back to this thread.......did we lose?

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:04 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Then you take the deal. If KC, JAX, the Cards, or Oakland want's to give up the first overall pick, then you ask "where do I sign?"

Won't get a peep outta me in that scenario.. see ya Cousins!

Yeah. And I am on the "keep Cousins" wagon, but I agree with that. If somebody comes up with a stupid offer like that then you kind of have to take it.

You have to look at those teams though and wonder how likely it is that they would be or even can afford to be that aggressive. Didn't Arizona and Oakland give up picks recently for Kolb and Palmer? Didn't Jax just spend a first rounder on Gabbert? KC isn't that far behind. What did they spend to get Cassel?

Its probably a little bit pie-in-the-sky to think we're getting any crazy offers for KC1 these teams.

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If cousins starts vs browns: We will lose

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Re: If cousins starts vs browns: We will lose