RGIII taking too many hits?

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:02 pm

I was a little worried about Gruden during the MNF game, he had his panties so twisted up over RGIII getting hit. Here's my question to you guys. Is this stuff about RGIII taking too many hits, risking his career, durability, etc; completely over hyped or what?

I understand Griffin is a mobile guy and puts himself at risk sometimes when he scrambles. He's also not the biggest QB out there. But has he really been hit that much more or that much worse than any other QB in the league?

I'll just finish my question with this. RGIII is 6'2" 217 and has been sacked 25 times this season. Three more times than 6'0 209 lbs Drew Brees. 14 times less than 6'2" 225 lbs Aaron Rodgers. So why all the hyperventilating over Griffin?

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:12 pm

Because, he's a "running QB."

DaveD1420 · Post by **DaveD1420** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:20 pm

I think part of it is physics. Griffin running at full speed getting hit by a defender running at full speed is generating a helluva lot more force than the same defender running into a statue-like QB who is not running. Also, I'll venture a bet that RG3's head is in a vulnerable position more than that of Brees and Rodgers.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:27 pm

I think the one thing that the "experts" discount or perhaps don't understand is that the type of scenario in which the hit occurs is more important than actually being hit.

QBs are most commonly injured because they leave themselves vunerable because a DE will hit them as they are finishing their throw. Since their entire body is occupied by completing their throwing motion, they don't have the ability to soften the hit (or protect themselves upon impact). That is why their helmet hits the ground; they can't role away or put their hands on the ground prior to hitting the turf.

Now if you are a runner, you have that ability. You are in control of where and how you are hit. You are also focused on what is around you and can brace for the hit --- unlike a pocket pass situation.

I believe this is why RBs don't have concussions as much as they should have.

That said, when RGIII tucks that ball, the defense will want to anhilate him because he is such an important part of our team.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:28 pm

DaveD1420 wrote:I think part of it is physics. Griffin running at full speed getting hit by a defender running at full speed is generating a helluva lot more force than the same defender running into a statue-like QB who is not running. Also, I'll venture a bet that RG3's head is in a vulnerable position more than that of Brees and Rodgers.

Plus I see people "out to get him." It's like it's their chance to be the guy who knocks him out. They seem to be making a point of landing hard in the pocket or throwing shoulders and forearms at the head and neck area in the open field.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:39 pm

Griffin is bigger than Adrian Peterson who takes plenty of hits btw. I think he'll be fine. As long as he isn't getting concussed. I'm not as worried about the tackles as much. He falls awkwardly though.

DaveD1420 · Post by **DaveD1420** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:05 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
DaveD1420 wrote:I think part of it is physics. Griffin running at full speed getting hit by a defender running at full speed is generating a helluva lot more force than the same defender running into a statue-like QB who is not running. Also, I'll venture a bet that RG3's head is in a vulnerable position more than that of Brees and Rodgers.
Plus I see people "out to get him." It's like it's their chance to be the guy who knocks him out. They seem to be making a point of landing hard in the pocket or throwing shoulders and forearms at the head and neck area in the open field.

Exactly.

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:53 pm

I think this was an outgrowth of Gruden's intense desire to criticize RG3 for SOMETHING, ANYTHING....

He can't criticize him for lacking arm strength, accuracy, leadership, speed, clutchness, comebackability, or any other tangible or intangible trait, so this was all that Chucky had left to talk about. It seems like he decided to annoint Eli as "the best QB ever" before the game even started, and he continued that line of thinking even when it was obvious that Eli was groiwng increasingly ineffective while RG3 was simultaneously building a signature win.

Plenty of posters have called attention to the right things: RG3 is comparable in size (or bigger than) plenty of other QBs and RBs who take just as many (or more) hits. Hitting is a part of the game, all players are going to get tackled. I believe that RG3 learned from the ATL hit, and I'd be surprised to see him take another hit like that if he has any means of avoiding it.

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:21 pm

I can't find a stat specifically for hits or times tackled

Here's what I could find.

Hit while throwing Griffin is 13th in the league with 5
1st Andrew Luck with 11
2nd Cam Newton with 10
3rd Joe Flacco with 9

Times sacked Griffin ranks 14th with 26
1st Aaron Rodgers with 39
2nd Phillip Rivers with 36
3rd Cam Newton with 30

I couldn't find anything that shows knockdowns after the pass is thrown, or how many times he was actually hit on rushing attempts, but he does lead the league in Rushing Attempts for a QB but only barely with 37

2nd is Mike Vick with 36 (keep in mind he hasn't played in three weeks)
3rd is Russel Wilson with 33.

I don't see that Griffin is hit all that much more than any other QB and I think a lot of the buzz about it is sour grapes because when Griffin breaks loose he's dangerous. Nobody bashed the Eagles for having Vick run so much even though he had been ailing since the pre-season and he was rushing far more times than Griffin for far fewer yards.

FLWSkin · Post by **FLWSkin** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:28 pm

It is the media template. RGIII gets hit too much and is going to get hurt. That was decided before the season so that's what they all say. Research and doing your job doesn't matter in reporting anymore.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:29 pm

Any time you have a running QB the chances of him getting hurt are greater than say a QB like Vinnie Testaverde, who simply couldn't run at all. But I have noticed two things; RGIII seems to be taking more care when he runs by making it harder for players to get a solid hit on him, and they don't seem to be running him as often. These things should reduce his risk of getting hurt, but nothing can eliminate it...

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:41 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:I couldn't find anything that shows knockdowns after the pass is thrown, or how many times he was actually hit on rushing attempts, but he does lead the league in Rushing Attempts for a QB but only barely with 37

2nd is Mike Vick with 36 (keep in mind he hasn't played in three weeks)
3rd is Russel Wilson with 33.

Really good stuff overall, Bob, and thanks for taking the time to look at it. However, when I look at his stats, he has 105 carries, not 37? Cam is #2 for QBs at 95. RG3 has more rushing attempts than Fred Jackson, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, and many other RBs. He's 31 overall in carries.

That's got to be a concern, though.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:01 pm

Pulp,
To me it a matter of math. How many times does he get hit sitting in the pocket and how many times does he get hit on the run. Everyone assumes that if he didn't run he wouldn't get hit on those plays.
That is a farce!
Did anyone see how many times RG3INT got hit last year behind this OL? Do we really want Robert sitting in the pocket waiting to the last second to deliver a 10 yard pass and get drilled by a DE when he could just take off, pick up the ten yards and NOT get hit.

What you need to know about the math and it is impossible to figure out is how many times he would have gotten hit if he didn't run! If he wasn't a threat to run on every play the NFL DL, LB, and DBs would just blitz him whenever they felt like it and he wouldn't make it through a season. You could make a case that the runs might actually be decreasing the number of times he would have gotten hit!

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:32 pm

RGIII is going to get hit. We know that. But, I think we can all be pleased with the amount of punishment he's taken this year, especially given the fact that we all expected our Offensive Line to be among the worst in the league. They're actually above average.

RGIII wasn't sacked at all last night. But, he does take some unnecessary shots when he is running and not getting down or out of bounds.

He will learn how to do this. But, I imagine it's tough when you're running 20 MPH.

I'm not as worried about the hits he takes in the pocket. That's normal. But, he's gotta avoid some of the other kill shots.

GFlanagan3 · Post by **GFlanagan3** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:41 pm

I wonder if Chucky is upset , still, that he wasn't offered the Redskins job...I remember his name has been floated around some..maybe some of you can fill in the details of why he wasn't given the job..and if he IS upset...just sayin'

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:43 pm

FLWSkin wrote:It is the media template. RGIII gets hit too much and is going to get hurt. That was decided before the season so that's what they all say. Research and doing your job doesn't matter in reporting anymore.

Yeah, that's kind of been my impression lately. Just seems like that is the narrative, and they're sticking with it.

I just kind of laughed listening to Gruden harp on it all night. All I could think was that I guess he never saw Patrick Ramsey out there getting killed every Sunday. THAT kid took a beating.

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:52 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:I couldn't find anything that shows knockdowns after the pass is thrown, or how many times he was actually hit on rushing attempts, but he does lead the league in Rushing Attempts for a QB but only barely with 37

2nd is Mike Vick with 36 (keep in mind he hasn't played in three weeks)
3rd is Russel Wilson with 33.
Really good stuff overall, Bob, and thanks for taking the time to look at it. However, when I look at his stats, he has 105 carries, not 37? Cam is #2 for QBs at 95. RG3 has more rushing attempts than Fred Jackson, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, and many other RBs. He's 31 overall in carries.

That's got to be a concern, though.

I just noticed the stat I posted wasn't all rushing attempts, just his "scrambles" after dropping back to pass.

Thanks for catching that!

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:00 pm

The Hogster wrote:I'm not as worried about the hits he takes in the pocket. That's normal. But, he's gotta avoid some of the other kill shots.

Exactly my point. I know he's carrying the ball less and less on designed runs as the year goes by, which is great to see. This guy is special...I want him to stay upright as long as possible.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:10 pm

The Skins are 3 point favorites against Baltimore.

I like being the underdog though.

FLWSkin · Post by **FLWSkin** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:47 pm

riggofan wrote:
FLWSkin wrote:It is the media template. RGIII gets hit too much and is going to get hurt. That was decided before the season so that's what they all say. Research and doing your job doesn't matter in reporting anymore.
Yeah, that's kind of been my impression lately. Just seems like that is the narrative, and they're sticking with it.

I just kind of laughed listening to Gruden harp on it all night. All I could think was that I guess he never saw Patrick Ramsey out there getting killed every Sunday. THAT kid took a beating.

Its like listening to Colin Cowherd. I don't listen to him usually, but after we drafted him, I heard him say that basically RGIII was a gimmick QB from a gimmick system at Baylor and he was going to struggle in the NFL. So now I make it a point to listen to him after RGIII has a good game to hear what he says. Now he says RGIII is doing good things.....but Kyle is using our system to hide all his flaws and the system cannot be sustained as the defenses will figure it out. Oh and hes not good because he still can't read a defense because all we do is the read option and he doesn't have to. Or Colin, you could just admit you were wrong and RGIII is better than you thought. Of course his ego doesn't allow that. Also RGIII is much less of a QB because he only throws 25ish times a game and Luck is so superior because he throws 50. I really get tired of guys who have never played giving their opinions like they are fact, when they don't necessarily know what they are talking about.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:49 pm

The Hogster wrote:The Skins are 3 point favorites against Baltimore.

I like being the underdog though.

Wow. I find that hard to believe. I see us as the underdogs going into this week, though I have no doubts that we can win this one.

FLWSkin · Post by **FLWSkin** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:52 pm

No Lewis, no Suggs(probably) they really struggle on the road and if you look at the Ravens, they have won a lot of close games. We can beat them. We just need to play well.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:52 pm

absinthe1023 wrote:I think this was an outgrowth of Gruden's intense desire to criticize RG3 for SOMETHING, ANYTHING....

Nah... Gruden LOVES Bob. He literally gushes when talking about him. I think he is genuinely concerned about the hits. He was PANCAKED by JPP yesterday...

FLWSkin · Post by **FLWSkin** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:54 pm

But they say he runs too much and gets hit too hard then, so is it ok when he gets hit in the pocket like a regular QB? I'm so confused....

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:55 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
The Hogster wrote:The Skins are 3 point favorites against Baltimore.

I like being the underdog though.
Wow. I find that hard to believe. I see us as the underdogs going into this week, though I have no doubts that we can win this one.

I always check USAToday for the early lines to see what the odds makers are thinking. The early line was us favored by as low as 1 point to as high as 3 points depending on the maker.