Skins Steelers postgame thread

[SkinsJock]

OK - I'm really not as mad about losing as I am at the way we played ...

I understand that the big picture is we still have a lot of issues and we've had some setbacks but ...

that was a very disappointing effort on the part of both players and coaches

I'm not going to advocate for anything just because of this one game but

the OC and DC might not be the only ones that will be looking for jobs if the product on the field does not get a lot better over the next 8 games

Mike the HC has got to do a better job 'managing' the coaches and players


we all know that what we saw yesterday was not caused by the Steelers but by ourselves

I'm not saying we could (or should) have won - we are a lot better than what we saw

[Red_One43]

From the gameday thread:

Football Outsiders is saying the Redskins have a great chance at upsetting the Steelers this Sunday (ever week they pick an underdog whose chances they like).

I can't read the whole thing, because I don't have ESPN Insider, but the full article is here:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/ ... h-steelers

I went ahead and became an ESPN Insider so I could read this article.

Kyle should have read it too.

Upset Watch: Washington (+4.5) at Pittsburgh

Football Outsiders has always been an advocate of the modern offense: lots of shotgun and lots of passing. But our advice for Washington on Sunday is different. To beat Pittsburgh, the Redskins want to go old school and run, run, run.

Washington's strategy starts with understanding the Pittsburgh defense. Most fans know at this point that the Steelers haven't met their usual defensive standards this season because of age and injuries. But the defense has been better since James Harrison returned to the field. Right now, the Steelers rank 22nd in Football Outsiders' defensive DVOA ratings. Things would be a lot different if we split the season into their first three games (without Harrison) and their last three games (with Harrison). In the first three games, they had a defensive DVOA of 21.0 percent, which would rank 30th on the season. In the past three games, they have a defensive DVOA of minus-6.2 percent, which would rank 12th.



However, nearly all the improvement has come in pass defense. Run defense hasn't really improved much with Harrison's return. That seems to be related to the other big name on the Pittsburgh injury report, Troy Polamalu. Over the past five years, the Steelers have allowed roughly a touchdown more per game when Polamalu was not healthy. The Steelers have done a better job than usual withstanding the loss of Polamalu this season, but not when it comes to stopping the run. They allowed 3.7 yards per carry in the two games Polamalu played, compared with 4.6 yards per carry in the four games he has missed. This matches previous numbers -- for example, the last time Polamalu missed most of the season, in 2009, the Steelers allowed 3.4 yards per carry when he was healthy and 4.3 yards per carry without him.

Washington's running should start with first downs, where the Redskins' running game ranks second in DVOA and fourth in yards per carry with 5.36. Pittsburgh's defense, on the other hand, has been very weak against first-down runs, 30th in DVOA and 28th allowing 5.20 yards per carry.

Problem here is Kyle started running wide to Harrisons side on the first two running plays after the opening end around. He continued to run Mmorris wide to Harrisons side for losses and no gains until the third quarter when Morris got over 10 yards on that carry. Those repeated carries to Harrison's side made no sense. I kept thinking that they were trying to set something up, but when you need to score on every series, you can't afford to set something up for later. I never did see what, if anything, they were trying to set up - it just looked like more suspect Kyle play calling.

[llcc25]

Its clear that we could've used that 4th round pick to shore up some of our glaring weaknesses on D. Why Shanahan, why did you draft someone who is riding our bench when we had so many other holes to fill??? Its clear RGIII needs more help...this move is an indictment on Shanahan's GM capabilities...

[DarthMonk]

Irn-Bru wrote:
Football Outsiders is saying the Redskins have a great chance at upsetting the Steelers this Sunday (ever week they pick an underdog whose chances they like).

I can't read the whole thing, because I don't have ESPN Insider, but the full article is here:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/ ... h-steelers


I went ahead and became an ESPN Insider so I could read this article.

Kyle should have read it too.

Quote:
Upset Watch: Washington (+4.5) at Pittsburgh

Football Outsiders has always been an advocate of the modern offense: lots of shotgun and lots of passing. But our advice for Washington on Sunday is different. To beat Pittsburgh, the Redskins want to go old school and run, run, run.

Washington's strategy starts with understanding the Pittsburgh defense. Most fans know at this point that the Steelers haven't met their usual defensive standards this season because of age and injuries. But the defense has been better since James Harrison returned to the field. Right now, the Steelers rank 22nd in Football Outsiders' defensive DVOA ratings. Things would be a lot different if we split the season into their first three games (without Harrison) and their last three games (with Harrison). In the first three games, they had a defensive DVOA of 21.0 percent, which would rank 30th on the season. In the past three games, they have a defensive DVOA of minus-6.2 percent, which would rank 12th.



However, nearly all the improvement has come in pass defense. Run defense hasn't really improved much with Harrison's return. That seems to be related to the other big name on the Pittsburgh injury report, Troy Polamalu. Over the past five years, the Steelers have allowed roughly a touchdown more per game when Polamalu was not healthy. The Steelers have done a better job than usual withstanding the loss of Polamalu this season, but not when it comes to stopping the run. They allowed 3.7 yards per carry in the two games Polamalu played, compared with 4.6 yards per carry in the four games he has missed. This matches previous numbers -- for example, the last time Polamalu missed most of the season, in 2009, the Steelers allowed 3.4 yards per carry when he was healthy and 4.3 yards per carry without him.

Washington's running should start with first downs, where the Redskins' running game ranks second in DVOA and fourth in yards per carry with 5.36. Pittsburgh's defense, on the other hand, has been very weak against first-down runs, 30th in DVOA and 28th allowing 5.20 yards per carry.


Problem here is Kyle started running wide to Harrisons side on the first two running plays after the opening end around. He continued to run Mmorris wide to Harrisons side for losses and no gains until the third quarter when Morris got over 10 yards on that carry. Those repeated carries to Harrison's side made no sense. I kept thinking that they were trying to set something up, but when you need to score on every series, you can't afford to set something up for later. I never did see what, if anything, they were trying to set up - it just looked like more suspect Kyle play calling.

Spot on, Red. Spot on.

DarthMonk

[crazyhorse1]

Kinda pi$$ed......let me count the ways:

1. that we freakin dropped over 10 balls (guys better grow some coconuts)
2. that Frenchy Pierre Garcon has not been a factor (heal up dude...come on)
3. that our pathetic D with the pathetic D coord....sux to high heaven

THE Steelers.....ARE WHO THE THOUGHT THEY WERE...!!!

We flat-out dropped eleven passes and Hankerson let one whizz by his head without seeming to notice he was being passed to. I'm really ticked that the Defense can't rush or pass defend at all, but what really has me enraged this morning is that RG 111 probably lost his lead among NFL quarterbacks in pass completion percentage. Without the dropped balls, he would have extended his lead, not lost it. Because of his teammates total (and I mean "total") ineptitude his QB rating for the game was 75, which will play havoc with his former 101.

I have never, ever, seen a QB or a team so let down by receivers. By the way, Moss has two crucial drops in two games...and he's the best we've put on the field (or maybe Paulson is.) What a mistake it was to cut our top receiver from last year. What an incredible mistake it was to switch to the 3-4. I thought so when we did it, and think so now.

[DarthMonk]

Maybe next year we get the calls and the other teams don't.

Please! We've never gotten the calls, why would they start next year?

Dude! Weren't you watching? You were rght again. We won! It was just all the crappy calls by the refs and a few drops. We were the better team.

Seriously, there were a few calls we should have gotten. Griffin was not hit helet-to-helmet when he went long but I saw a missed hold and there was a PI in the endzone that could have been important.

Otherwise we got our butts handed to us in all 3 phases.

On D we could not stop them.

On O Kyle acted like it was all about our execution as if their D didn't matter. It seemed like we dd not game plan FOR THEM.

On specials we had another kick blocked and have trouble reaching the goal line when we kick off.

We've held a lead at some point in every game before this (I think) except against the Bengals where we were tied late. This was a debacle.

I'm worried about our confidence moving forward. If we had held a few leads early in the year (Rams, Giants) and were 5-3 now I wouldn't be.

Our 2nd half has 5 home games. We need to beat Carolina next week then beat Philly after the bye. We do that and we have a chance for a decent year. We lose to Carolina it could fall apart.

DarthMonk

[Red_One43]

Its clear that we could've used that 4th round pick to shore up some of our glaring weaknesses on D. Why Shanahan, why did you draft someone who is riding our bench when we had so many other holes to fill??? Its clear RGIII needs more help...this move is an indictment on Shanahan's GM capabilities...

Here' how you could add teeth to your agrument - go through the 4th round of the draft starting with the picks after the Skins picked Cousins. Look at all the defensive guys chosen. Pick one or two that you feel that we should have chosen. Look them up on NFL.com or pro-football-reference.com and see if they are contributing right now. It is not an exact science because we don't know if that player would fit our scheme, but it would make for good support for what you are saying.

If I get some free time, before the power goes out with the coming hurricane I will go ahead and do it.

OK, I listed the 4th round defensive guys for you (I didn't include the picks before Cousins because they were not available and I eliminated the picks between Cousins and Robinson because we passed on them for Robinson - even if they are good now, we still would have passed on them). Which guys would have helped us out against Pittsburgh yesterday?

102. Washington Redskins - Kirk Cousins, QB, Michigan State
119. Washington Redskins - Keenan Robinson, OLB, Texas
120. Cleveland Browns - James-Michael Johnson, MLB, Nevada
123. Philadelphia Eagles - Brandon Boykin, CB, Georgia
124. Buffalo Bills - Ron Brooks, CB, LSU
125. Detroit Lions - Ronnell Lewis, DE/OLB, Oklahoma
126. Houston Texans - Jared Crick, DT, Nebraska
129. Oakland Raiders - Miles Burris, OLB, San Diego State
130. Baltimore Ravens - Christian Thompson, S, South Carolina State
132. Green Bay Packers - Mike Daniels, DT, Iowa
133. Green Bay Packers - Jerron McMillian, S, Maine
135. Dallas Cowboys - Matt Johnson, S, Eastern Washington

[Deadskins]

Maybe next year we get the calls and the other teams don't.

Please! We've never gotten the calls, why would they start next year?

Dude! Weren't you watching? You were rght again. We won! It was just all the crappy calls by the refs and a few drops. We were the better team.

Dude, where did I say calls cost us this game? But, you are correct that I'm the one who can't let it go.

[Irn-Bru]

Problem here is Kyle started running wide to Harrisons side on the first two running plays after the opening end around. He continued to run Mmorris wide to Harrisons side for losses and no gains until the third quarter when Morris got over 10 yards on that carry. Those repeated carries to Harrison's side made no sense. I kept thinking that they were trying to set something up, but when you need to score on every series, you can't afford to set something up for later. I never did see what, if anything, they were trying to set up - it just looked like more suspect Kyle play calling.

+1. Good observations.

[DarthMonk]

Maybe next year we get the calls and the other teams don't.

Please! We've never gotten the calls, why would they start next year?

Dude! Weren't you watching? You were rght again. We won! It was just all the crappy calls by the refs and a few drops. We were the better team.

Dude, where did I say calls cost us this game? But, you are correct that I'm the one who can't let it go.

Never siad you did. Just having fun before I make my points. Relax.

[Warmother]

Yesterday was a disappointment. It looked like a lot of guys had no interest in playing.
I am still optimistic about the season though. In years past we have started well only to crash later. I think this year will be the opposite. I think RG3 and the boys will get better as the year goes on. We may not make the playoffs but they will learn how to win, and then next year watch out.

Question: If in years past we started to crash later, what do you make of the 0-23 lackluster perfomance against Buffalo last year right at this time, on October 30th?

Yesterday may have been the worst, but the Shanahan Redskins have had a history of lackluster performances throughtout the season.

I think RG3 will make the difference, as well as he has played this year he's still a rookie. By the end of the year, with more experience, I think his drive and leadership will rub off on the guys who are under performing, (See recievers).
The Shanahan Redskins finally have an on the field leader who will not let the rest of the team slack off as the year goes along.
I think of this team like the 1981 team that started 0-5 and finished 8-8. Once this team learns to win like that one did, it will be a beautiful thing.

[mastdark81]

Worst feeling ive had this year. Im not going to put it on the offense, the defense continue to have qbs sit back untouched and get comfortable like it is probowl rules.

Even if receivers would have caught every pass I just felt that vibe that we was gling to lose cause we was on the road and everything was going their way.

[SkinsJock]

We are not good enough to be able to overcome guys on the field AND on the sidelines not giving it everything they've got

this was just a bad game for our team


we have a fantastic QB and we will continue to get better

I am sure a lot of players and coaches will benefit from this season's ups and downs

I'm not sure how many players AND coaches will be here next season if they don't put out a better effort in the coming weeks

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Maybe next year we get the calls and the other teams don't.

Please! We've never gotten the calls, why would they start next year?

Dude! Weren't you watching? You were rght again. We won! It was just all the crappy calls by the refs and a few drops. We were the better team.

Dude, where did I say calls cost us this game? But, you are correct that I'm the one who can't let it go.

Never siad you did. Just having fun before I make my points. Relax.

Are you still pouting about getting.teased for picking the Gnats to win 60% to 40%.. then they pulled off the "w" and you were "right"?
... Only we should have won had it.not been for terrible calls, so you were actually wrong? Lol
Get over it doode!

[Deadskins]

Griffin was not hit helet-to-helmet when he went long

No, but he was a defenseless WR, and that should have been called.

[Red_One43]

Yesterday was a disappointment. It looked like a lot of guys had no interest in playing.
I am still optimistic about the season though. In years past we have started well only to crash later. I think this year will be the opposite. I think RG3 and the boys will get better as the year goes on. We may not make the playoffs but they will learn how to win, and then next year watch out.

Question: If in years past we started to crash later, what do you make of the 0-23 lackluster perfomance against Buffalo last year right at this time, on October 30th?

Yesterday may have been the worst, but the Shanahan Redskins have had a history of lackluster performances throughtout the season.

I think RG3 will make the difference, as well as he has played this year he's still a rookie. By the end of the year, with more experience, I think his drive and leadership will rub off on the guys who are under performing, (See recievers).
The Shanahan Redskins finally have an on the field leader who will not let the rest of the team slack off as the year goes along.
I think of this team like the 1981 team that started 0-5 and finished 8-8. Once this team learns to win like that one did, it will be a beautiful thing.

I agree with you about RGIII being a difference maker this year performance and leadership and I love your optimism. With the '81 team, Gibbs made a major adjustment with the O. Shanny has made such an adjustment this year. Good analogy so far.

*2005, Redskins 5-6, win next 5 games. Philosophy change - pound the ball.

*2007, Redskins 5-7, QB change by injury. QB who knows the O, comes in and wins 4 straight games.

*In the '81, '05, '06 seasons a major change in philosophy (run the ball) or personnel (QB who knows the system), led to the consecutive victory runs.

The Steeler game showed that even with RGIII, Kyle continues to showcase his arsenal of plays rather than maximize our strengths. A Flea Flicker? Against a disciplined D playing zone? A pass to a QB with the in D in Zone? Running wide with a no speed Alfred Morris against the Steelers? Why?

Haz continues to try to make his Steeler model defense more complicated than what the Steelers do.

Without a philosophy change from these two or at least one of them, we will have to rely on RGIII like we did in the Viking game. I can't see an '81, '05 or an '07 run in this team. There are too many flaws that we saw in 2010 still happening in the third year.

Will We bounce back from the Steeler game? We bounced back from the 2010 whupping by Philly, 59-28, so I know we will next week.

John Keim on Simplifying the Defense like the Steelers

2.Talked to a very knowledgeable NFL guy after the game and his point summed up some differences between the teams. The Redskins and Steelers run the same defense, right? Well, this person said that’s true only to a point. The Steelers are much more basic on early downs and it shows in their execution. While they will change things up and they will blitz a lot, most of their so-called exotic looks come on third down. They rarely learn anything new. It’s a major key to why they execute so well.

[Richmond Redskin]

Griffin was not hit helet-to-helmet when he went long

No, but he was a defenseless WR, and that should have been called.

Agree...took an unecessary shot. I have no idea why coach did not tell Morgan to throw the ball away unless he was wide open. Big risk having your franchise running routes taking hits.

[SkinsJock]

Like Warmother posted and others have been saying for a few games now ...

BOTH Kyle and Jim have got to better utilize and game plan to suit the players they have

AND NOT CONTINUE to try and see if the plays they want their players to execute will work

THEY DON"T WORK


BOTH Kyle and Jim have to do their jobs better with the players they have

putting a franchise QB in harms way should have gotten the idiot that was responsible fired

[riggofan]

Like Warmother posted and others have been saying for a few games now ...

BOTH Kyle and Jim have got to better utilize and game plan to suit the players they have

AND NOT CONTINUE to try and see if the plays they want their players to execute will work

THEY DON"T WORK


BOTH Kyle and Jim have to do their jobs better with the players they have

putting a franchise QB in harms way should have gotten the idiot that was responsible fired

Sorry I just don't get most of your post, my friend. No doubt Kyle needed to make some adjustments to what LeBeau was doing, but 10 dropped passes was probably more of an issue. Either way, its not like the Skins offense couldn't move the ball.

And as for putting a franchise QB in harms way, I just don't get this stuff. We drafted RGIII to help us win games. He's in harm's way every time he is on the field. I'm not saying we need to be completely reckless with him, but he's our best offensive weapon. We HAVE to be willing to take some risks with him.

I know what play you're upset about, and it sounds like Shanny himself agrees it was stupid in hindsight. Oh well. At least they're out there trying to make things happen. We're only complaining about the play because it didn't work. When they rolled RGIII out and he ran 73 yards for a TD a couple weeks back, nobody was on here saying, "WHAT IDIOT LET OUR FRANCHISE QB RUN THE BALL??? HE MIGHT GET HURT!!!!!"

[Redskin in Canada]

Most people around here thought that the predictions of 2 - 14 and worst place in the NFC East were exaggerated. They were NOT!

That is exactly where we would be at the end of the season if RGIII had not turned out to be our saviour.

CAN ANYBODY EVEN IMAGINE HOW MANY WINS HAD WE HAD WITH sexy Rex this season?

Probably: NONE, ZERO, SILCH, NOTHING, NADA, CRAP.

I am so ANGRY and FRUSTRATED that I did not want to post before today. At this point, We would have been much better off with that antiquated 4-3 defense when we had one. This is a RIDICULOUS secondary. And those butter fingers among our "receivers". Well, what else can we ask RGIII to do? Send the pass and receive it at the other end?

NOW, I maintain someone should be held responsible for this COLLAPSE after we are on our way to have the WORST pass defense in the NFL with the prospect to become the 1st in the history of the NFL to allow +5000 yards in a season. I will post a question in a separate POLL.

[SkinsJock]

Like Warmother posted and others have been saying for a few games now ...

BOTH Kyle and Jim have got to better utilize and game plan to suit the players they have

AND NOT CONTINUE to try and see if the plays they want their players to execute will work

THEY DON"T WORK


BOTH Kyle and Jim have to do their jobs better with the players they have

putting a franchise QB in harms way should have gotten the idiot that was responsible fired

Sorry I just don't get most of your post, my friend.

no worries - let me make my point

No doubt Kyle needed to make some adjustments to what LeBeau was doing, but 10 dropped passes was probably more of an issue. Either way, its not like the Skins offense couldn't move the ball.

And as for putting a franchise QB in harms way, I just don't get this stuff. We drafted RGIII to help us win games. He's in harm's way every time he is on the field. I'm not saying we need to be completely reckless with him, but he's our best offensive weapon. We HAVE to be willing to take some risks with him.

I know what play you're upset about, and it sounds like Shanny himself agrees it was stupid in hindsight. Oh well. At least they're out there trying to make things happen. We're only complaining about the play because it didn't work. When they rolled RGIII out and he ran 73 yards for a TD a couple weeks back, nobody was on here saying, "WHAT IDIOT LET OUR FRANCHISE QB RUN THE BALL??? HE MIGHT GET HURT!!!!!"

not quite what I mean't -

Kyle did not adjust the plays to what suited - the running plays that he kept calling were not working - Harrison is too good - Pittsburgh does not have a good running defense but we made them look better than they were by not taking what they (Pitt) were not good at - that defense can pursue like crazy

I agree - we do have to take some risks with RG3 but that play should not have been called - RG3 can draw coverage but he should not have been 'exposed' like he was

RG3 can run but he understands that if the hit is coming he has to try and avoid it - there was no way that he could have avoided the hit in that situation

don't even get me started on defense - i'm a 3-4 fan - I think it is a better defense

If this keeps up - Haslett will NOT be DC here next season

[Red_One43]

At least they're out there trying to make things happen. We're only complaining about the play because it didn't work. When they rolled RGIII out and he ran 73 yards for a TD a couple weeks back, nobody was on here saying, "WHAT IDIOT LET OUR FRANCHISE QB RUN THE BALL??? HE MIGHT GET HURT!!!!!"

As far as your harms way point, I am in full agreement with you. Run RGIII Run, but get rid of the option pitch.

As far as your statement, "At least they're out there trying to make things happen?"

I think that you are being a little too casual in defending the use of that play. With that play, an OC, doesn't want to "try" to make things happen. He wants to be smart about using it. This play had no chance to work. Steelers had two guys back there.

Did RGIII audible into that play because he read "man" coverage? If so RGIII's fault. Folks who can watch the replay of the game can tell if he audibled.

Was that play called by the OC becfore leaving the huddle without knowing what coverage the Steelers were in? If this is the case, then that call at that time was ridiculous.

Did RGIII have the option to check out of it, if he read zone? We'll never know the truth on this one, but when I look at tendencies of RGIII and trendencies of Kyle, I would say, RGIII had no option to check out of it.

It is a great play to have in the playbook! As Mike said, he was successful with it with Elway and Young. It was the wrong situation and wrong team to use it on - Should have saved it for the Panthers game.

The 76 yd TD was a run, but it wasn't a called run. RGIII saw the blitzers take the same game and off he went. Not a good comparison to a play were an OC leaves his QB hung out to dry on call against the wrong defensive scheme and against a highly disciplined team.

But, I still agree with you that RGIII being in "harm's way" is not a factor and should not be.

[Kilmer72]

Most people around here thought that the predictions of 2 - 14 and worst place in the NFC East were exaggerated. They were NOT!

That is exactly where we would be at the end of the season if RGIII had not turned out to be our saviour.

CAN ANYBODY EVEN IMAGINE HOW MANY WINS HAD WE HAD WITH sexy Rex this season?

Probably: NONE, ZERO, SILCH, NOTHING, NADA, CRAP.

I am so ANGRY and FRUSTRATED that I did not want to post before today. At this point, We would have been much better off with that antiquated 4-3 defense when we had one. This is a RIDICULOUS secondary. And those butter fingers among our "receivers". Well, what else can we ask RGIII to do? Send the pass and receive it at the other end?

NOW, I maintain someone should be held responsible for this COLLAPSE after we are on our way to have the WORST pass defense in the NFL with the prospect to become the 1st in the history of the NFL to allow +5000 yards in a season. I will post a question in a separate POLL.

Oh I totally agree about the switch to 34 vs 43 shenanigans. Mike will not give up on his 34 ideals or Jim Haslett. This was his down fall in Denver.I mean the part of giving up on his defensive coach. I mentioned in old threads about NO 43 defense on their SuperBowl run being way positive in turn overs and I believe was leading the league. It doesn't have to be this way. I could revert back to Gibbs hay day with Richie Petibon's defense in 91 but then people would say that was then and in some cases was before some peoples time that post here. With what we have now we would have to add weight to Ryan Kerrigan and Rak. We would need faster LBs that can not only stop the run but cover. Then we would still have to address the whole secondary. This was where we went wrong to begin with by making major changes on defense. We are stuck now. We have to see this through. If we had stuck with the 43 we could have spent more time on fixing offense and maybe even Albert wouldn't have been a total disappointment.

On a bright note...Except for last game we have been scoring and especially in the red zone.

[Red_One43]

We are stuck now. We have to see this through.

Why are we stuck? Look at Belichick. How long did it take for him to start using a majority 4-3 scheme after so many years as a 3-4?

Mike will not give up on his 34 ideals or Jim Haslett

Nevermind. You're right, we are stuck.

[DarthMonk]

Are you still pouting about getting.teased for picking the Gnats to win 60% to 40%.. then they pulled off the "w" and you were "right"?
... Only we should have won had it.not been for terrible calls, so you were actually wrong? Lol
Get over it doode!

No. Just having fun.

Are you still SYH?

If it makes you feel any better I think we'll beat Carolina - mainly because we are at home and Griff will show the world he's way better than Cam Newton. Hope I'm right. Might have to go to this one.

Peace.

DarthMonk