Gameday thread Buccs-Redskins

[Chris Luva Luva]

If my proof is questionable, disprove it. Or come up with proof.

John Keim and others have no reason to lie about the kid, it is what it is. Like I said, he hasn't connected. Kirk has. It's just an observation. I fully expect RGIII to get it together.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... iii-1.html

And yer boy

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... ins-1.html

Want youtube videos?
As of now RGiii is a little off on some timings of his deep throws, but that comes. Cousins has had the luxury of hucking it vs back ups and people not making the team- no timing needed. Another note some of those bombs from Rgiii were very catchable.

Lastly I give you the training camp thread.

Sir, we're talking about the Redskins, training camp and preseason. I'm aware of what they did in college. As REDSKINS and up
To this point, Kirk has been more accurate with the deep pass.

LMFAo at you saying there's no timing needed. If you really believe that, don't bother replying back.

When I get home. I'll find the article written about RGIII missing deep in practice with NO DEFENSE covering the WR's.... Using your "logic", that automatically makes Kirk better. Even though that's not even my point.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

If my proof is questionable, disprove it. Or come up with proof.

John Keim and others have no reason to lie about the kid, it is what it is. Like I said, he hasn't connected. Kirk has. It's just an observation. I fully expect RGIII to get it together.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... iii-1.html

And yer boy

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... ins-1.html

Want youtube videos?
As of now RGiii is a little off on some timings of his deep throws, but that comes. Cousins has had the luxury of hucking it vs back ups and people not making the team- no timing needed. Another note some of those bombs from Rgiii were very catchable.

Lastly I give you the training camp thread.

Sir, we're talking about the Redskins, training camp and preseason. I'm aware of what they did in college. As REDSKINS and up
To this point, Kirk has been more accurate with the deep pass.

LMFAo at you saying there's no timing needed. If you really believe that, don't bother replying back.

When I get home. I'll find the article written about RGIII missing deep in practice with NO DEFENSE covering the WR's.... Using your "logic", that automatically makes Kirk better. Even though that's not even my point.

So a conversation about who has better accuracy on the deep ball, ones career is thrown out? Ok.
Using your logic Rex has the sexiest long ball right?? Bombs in preseason and tc... Smfh
Nice of you to change the subject to deep ball as a Redskin that we have seen. Not like practice has been closed to the public or anything
Do I believe that RGiii had to have *better timing vs the 1s on his deep passes, and wanted to put it where only a wr could get to it, vs Cousins and Wrex launching it hoping for the best vs 2 & 3s? Yes.
If u believe RGIII wouldn't have done similar vs the same players, with coachs go ahead- then don't bother responding.


*you are right its not zero timing they all need some. I feel Cousins hit like RGiii did in college- by just airing it out letting the receiver go get it. Looks to me RGiii is trying to be more precise on the few we've seen vs better defenders. Completion or no it opens up the running game, and he still has zero ints

[Chris Luva Luva]

Jesus Christ man, nobody said historically Kirk is or has been better. I said this far, as a Redkin Kirk has had more deep ball success.

That's it.

[chiefhog44]

If my proof is questionable, disprove it. Or come up with proof.

John Keim and others have no reason to lie about the kid, it is what it is. Like I said, he hasn't connected. Kirk has. It's just an observation. I fully expect RGIII to get it together.

Good deal. I could care less in arguing it with you. In fact. I'm not arguing it with you because I have no idea who is better to this point. My ONLY point is that I think it's pretty tough for you to make that assessment based on 1. reading an article or two from when reporters were allowed to go to camp 2. going to (I'm not sure how many, probably one) training camp practice three weeks ago 3. watching Kirk against camp fodder on TV and comparing that to how RG3 throws against 1st teamers on maybe 4 deep passes that he threw combined in the pre-season.

I know that I have no idea who is better up to this point. I am not at practice every day AND NEITHER ARE YOU DUDE

[Countertrey]

Here's something to argue about...

Whatever the outcome, the Redskins begin this season LOADED with quality running backs... every one that will make the team would be a solid starter... What a problem to have.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Jesus Christ man, nobody said historically Kirk is or has been better. I said this far, as a Redkin Kirk has had more deep ball success.

That's it.

Are u getting hurt? Chillax man! This last statement didn't exactly sound the same as this one did it?

Kirk has a better deep ball than RGIII at this point.

Not sure about your intent, but surely you expected some wtf u sayin posts thrown back didn't you?

A qb that's under wraps all pre-season vs seeing what one has (vs inferior defenders) is hardly a way to judge who is better then who at anything.
It's a fact cousins had better protection when he's been throwing... Is it because our starting oline needs to be replaced w the 2s?
Good chat.

[chiefhog44]

Here's something to argue about...

Whatever the outcome, the Redskins begin this season LOADED with quality running backs... every one that will make the team would be a solid starter... What a problem to have.

I wish we had one known stud on the team like Portis was back in the day when Shanny traded him. He's be able to do the same right now. Like Reid does with QB's, Shannahan does with backs. We will have some trade bait by year end...mark my words (Cousins, one of the RB's)

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Here's something to argue about...

Whatever the outcome, the Redskins begin this season LOADED with quality running backs... every one that will make the team would be a solid starter... What a problem to have.

Ok!
1. Morris had a fluke game vs the colts and every one is forgetting his 10 carries for 34 yards 3.4 ypc and his 15 for 54 yards 3.6 vs defences that aren't complete and utter poop. Now everyone thinks he's the starter?? Smfh!

2. Is HT even healed? 5/28 is a solid five carries, but not a lot to hold on to... Why haven't we seen more?

3. Helu has tendonitis in BOTH achilles? Wtf is that?? Great speed but he can't run up the middle for beans!

And

4. My boy Royster keeps getting nicked up... And only has two damn votes on the who starts a rb poll!!

Buncha crap right there!

[SkinsFreak]

Over 150 last night and he can do that by taking to the field 15 times or less, that's the difference.

<snip>

Whilst he certainly has his flaws, his upside is worth it and last nights stats demonstrate that.

In all fairness, Banks did rack up some yards last night. But most of his yards came in the 2nd half against players who won't even be in the league tomorrow. If there was one thing that was overwhelmingly evident last night, it was that the Buc's have absolutely no depth whatsoever. The bulk of Banks' yards came against players who will never play in the NFL.

On the other hand, Banks has had his opportunities playing against starters, both in 2011 and in this 2012 preseason. His more recent record playing against starters is not very impressive. In 2010 before the rule change? Impressive. In 2011 playing on special teams and so far in 2012 playing on offense and special teams? Not so much.

Maybe KO returns are less important now, but there's plenty of punts to return,

True. But punt returns is an area that Banks has struggled recently, both in terms of fumbles, muffed punt catches and average yards per return, which he ranked tied for 42nd last year. That's not very good. As riggofan said, perhaps fans are overstating his playmaking abilities just a bit. Or at the very least, making those statements based off Banks' performance in 2010, and not his less productive performances in 2011 and the 2012 preseason.

... and he has that extra dynamic of featuring in the offense with a gadget play if that's what you call it. Yeah, we might only run them six times a season but each time it can lea to a score or high yardage

You're right, Banks does have that extra dynamic for the occasional gadget or trick play. But... ... perhaps the coaches feel that with a far more dynamic QB in RG3, perhaps the new gadget plays that will be added to the offensive repertoire will be some of the spread/option stuff that RG3 did at Baylor that Shanahan says they plan to incorporate into the playbook this year. Not saying that's the case or an absolute fact, but just something the coaches will have to consider.

[SouthLondonRedskin]

I think we're both right!

Sure his efforts yesterday were against a toilet team, but I didn't see AA, Robinson or Austin do too much against them. He can't choose who he's up against.

Yeah, his stats aren't as good last season as 2010, but he was carrying a knock for a while and teams were kicking away from him too, such was his reputation.

I agree the gadget play stuff should be less important with RGIII in da house now - However I believe it could be a real asset to have up our sleeve for when teams zero-in on our rookie QB or he's struggling a bit, he can distract defenses by going on a run but reversing to BB for example.

Until RGIII is fully NFL ready, having guys like BB around will be very handy. So that's why I'd keep him. But something tells me Shanny has made his mind up already and he's outta here.

[Deadskins]

But punt returns is an area that Banks has struggled recently

Except that one he took to the house against Chicago's starters.

[SkinsFreak]

I think we're both right!

Oh, I absolutely agree. As I've said before, I can see both sides of the Banks debate and in no way believe this will be an easy decision for the coaching staff.

But punt returns is an area that Banks has struggled recently

Except that one he took to the house against Chicago's starters.

No doubt... he definitely impressed on that return. FTR, I'm not suggesting in any way that Banks hasn't made plays or doesn't deserve credit where credit is due.

[Red_One43]

When forced to read between the lines, there's more than one way to read things. For example, one could argue that Shanahan giving Banks many opportunities last night was merely allowing Banks to audition for other teams, especially playing against players who won't even be in the league come tomorrow. Not saying that's the fact, but just a different way to look at the situation

.

Well stated opinion. When forced to read between the lines, and if we take Shanny at his word (which is "dangerous to do), you are spot on here. It seems more likely that he is auditioning Banks than seeing what he can do. Doesn't Shanny already know what he can do as a returner and reverse runner?

In my personal opinion, I believe the scale weighs in favor of releasing him. I know that's an unpopular opinion around the THN community, and I fully understand and respect the varying opinions.

You know that I am a big Banks supporter, but I agree with you that the scale weighs in favor of releasing him.

1. He has looked tuuurible just tuuurible as a receiver. When a coach, whether he means it or not, tells you you have to make the team as a receiver, I would think that you would get a better showing that that. I gave him a pass on the first game, but you can't drop the ball the next game. Concentration has to there.

2. The muffed (NFL records as fumbles) punts keep coming. Had one against TB.

I fully understand your rationale for believing that he won't make the final 53.

I am not trying to convince you here, but stating that I have not changed my stance that he will be on the 53, because he is a playmaker and he has what Shanny can't teach - speed. Banks is a weapon. Personally, I think that Shanny has more up his sleeve on what he can do with Banks.

Again, not arguing with you. I see us agreeing to disagree and I respect your position. Your arguments, above, are backed up with facts and good reasoniing, in my opinion, so I don't see you as a hater.

[Red_One43]

Completely agree. Like Gano, there's an obsession about keeping Banks on this team by fans. Someone compared him Hester, and although I do not have the stats in front of me, there is NO way he is even in the same ballpark with Hester's return stats if you compare the same timeframe of their careers. I think you get very similar stats from Santana (without the drops) on punts, and probably better starting field position using someone like Aldrick on punt returns (if he makes good decisions to take a knee in the end zone...something Banks will not do).

Completely agree.

If you would have stopped there, you would have been OK in my book.

Someone compared him Hester, and although I do not have the stats in front of me, there is NO way he is even in the same ballpark with Hester's return stats if you compare the same timeframe of their careers.

Here's where you are reaching big time:

While certanly giving Hester his props and acknowledging that Hester is better, the fact remains that Banks had a better KOR avg. than Hester in 2011 (it's on NFL.com) So when some fans point out that Banks didn't finish in the top 20, neither did the guy who is clearly better than Banks. If you knock Banks for not being in the top 20, then you have to knock Hester. There are a lot of variables when returning kicks - one is called blocking. My point in bringing up Hester (in an earlier post) was relevant to my argument that saying Banks was not in the top 20 is weak.

This quote comes from the post that you completely agree.

[... which didn’t even put him in the top 20, and his punt-return average fell off too, from 11.3 to a 9.1 average, ranking Banks tied for 42nd best in the league.

Putting stock on this stat isn't worth much at all. Hester finished out of the top 20 and below Banks. Are you going to say Hester isn't worth his value to the Bears? Then why try to stand on this weak argument? If the point was to show the effects of the rule change, then why point out he didn't finish in the top 20?

Let's look at punt return avg dropping. Banks ranked in the NFL in PRs greater than 20 yards. Count up his plus 20 yarders and his plus 40 yarders. We all know that averages can get skewed by a couple of long runs, but Banks showed that he can break 20 yarders more than every PR than two. His average dropping 2 yards by itself is meaningless. We would love for returners to score often, but not all of them score TDs, so the next best thing is more long returns then the others - sets up field position. "Chunk" yardage as Danny Smith calls it.. That part of Danny's statment gets neglected.

Furthermore, why are you, ChiefHog, comparing Banks to a young Hester, he is not competing with Hester to make this team. I have never seen a post that said that Banks is better than Hester, so why are you bringing it up?

I think you get very similar stats from Santana (without the drops) on punts

Hey why not compare Santana's stats in this preseason to Banks stats in this preseaon? Why not? You know Da Bears pride themselves on their special teams - regular season or preseason. Banks took it to the house anyway. I will give Tana his props too. He looked good, but today, his speed is not what it used to be and not as fast as Banks.

The drops? - stick to arguments like this one and you have some credibility. But I challenge you to show me where he turned the ball over to the other team. (Shanny said that if Banks didn't take care of the ball, he'd cut him. Shanny cut him in 2010, brought him back. Though the stats say that two fumbles weren't recovered by a teammate or him, I cannot accont for any turnovers by Banks. I can account for the fumbles not recovered - they were fumbled out of bounds.) If anyone can point point out what games he turned the ball over, I really would like to know.

and probably better starting field position using someone like Aldrick on punt returns (if he makes good decisions to take a knee in the end zone...something Banks will not do

Why wasn't someone like Aldrick used on punt returns? I'd be the first one to say that I believe that some day someone like Aldrick will be a good returner. I would not use someone like a guy who has never caught a punt in any kind of game since high school as an argument for Banks not making the team.

If you meant KOs, yes, someone like Aldrick might do as good as a job, if not better on KORs, but, last night, he took one out from deep in the end zone, so much for the disclaimer.

And what is this "someone like" Aldrick? The only one on the team somewhat like Aldrick for returns is Banks.

Like Gano, there's an obsession about keeping Banks on this team by fans.

What is there not to obsess about about an electrifying returner that had the 3rd most 20 yard plus punt returns in the league. Threw a half back option TD pass set up by the fear of his speed. Though every stud returner gets a TD called back, it still doesn't take away from a guy's value or the fan enthusiasm. Why do you have to be down on fans for liking a guy that has been a playmaker for this team.

The question that has never been answered in the past three seasons is why folks are so quick to knock fans that like what Banks has done for this team.

You don't feel that he should make the team, fine - there is evidence, but how about posting some stuff that is relevnt to that argument before accusing other fans of being obsessive?

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

[chiefhog44]

Completely agree. Like Gano, there's an obsession about keeping Banks on this team by fans. Someone compared him Hester, and although I do not have the stats in front of me, there is NO way he is even in the same ballpark with Hester's return stats if you compare the same timeframe of their careers. I think you get very similar stats from Santana (without the drops) on punts, and probably better starting field position using someone like Aldrick on punt returns (if he makes good decisions to take a knee in the end zone...something Banks will not do).

Completely agree.

If you would have stopped there, you would have been OK in my book.

Someone compared him Hester, and although I do not have the stats in front of me, there is NO way he is even in the same ballpark with Hester's return stats if you compare the same timeframe of their careers.

Here's where you are reaching big time:

While certanly giving Hester his props and acknowledging that Hester is better, the fact remains that Banks had a better KOR avg. than Hester in 2011 (it's on NFL.com) So when some fans point out that Banks didn't finish in the top 20, neither did the guy who is clearly better than Banks. If you knock Banks for not being in the top 20, then knock Hester. There are a lot of variables when returning kicks - one is called blocking. My point in bringing up Hester was relevant to my argument that saying Banks was not in the top 20 is weak.

Please re-read what I said before spouting off. I said compared to the same timeframe of their careers. You went off and compared 2011. How about comparing what I was referring to.
BB - 1st 2 years in league - 74 punt returns - 759 yds 0 TD's - 10.25 ave
- 97 kick returns - 2329 yds 1 TD - 24.01 ave

DH - 1st 2 years in league - 89 punt returns - 1251 yds 7 TD's - 14.05 ave
- 63 kick returns - 1462 yds 4 TD's - 23.2 ave

You tell me. is he is in Hester's league? My opinion. Not even close. 10 more TD's and 3 more yds per attempt. Thats almost 15 more yards per game more and almost 250 more yds per season on an average of just under 5 touches per game.

This quote comes from the post that you completely agree.

[... which didn’t even put him in the top 20, and his punt-return average fell off too, from 11.3 to a 9.1 average, ranking Banks tied for 42nd best in the league.

Putting stock on this stat isn't worth much at all. Hester finished out of the top 20 and below Banks. Are you going to say Hester isn't worth his value to the Bears? Then why try to stand on this weak argument? If the point was to show the effects of the rule change, then why point out he didn't finish in the top 20?

Let's look at punt return avg dropping. Banks ranked in the NFL in PRs greater than 20 yards. Count up his plus 20 yarders and his plus 40 yarders. We all know that averages can get skewed by a couple of long runs, but Banks showed that he can break 20 yarders more than every PR than two. His average dropping 2 yards by itself is meaningless. We would love for returners to score often, but not all of them score TDs, so the next best thing is more long returns then the others - sets up field position. "Chunk" yardage as Danny Smith said. That part gets neglected.

Furthermore, why are you, ChiefHog, comparing Banks to a young Hester, he is not competing with Hester to make this team. I have never seen a post that said that Banks is better than Hester, so why are you bringing it up?

I didn't. Why don't you, RedOne, read the rest of the thread.

ey hurt my feelings, Gano kinda left me scratching my head, BB being cut would makemme doubt the FO.. especially watching him take it to the house for another team.

He's in the Hester league as far as returning and even when they know what he can do he still pulls em off... .

Sorry, I couldn't get through anymore of your essay. What a waste of 20 minutes.

[crazyhorse1]

Did you actually watch his post game presser? Did you really conclude that or are u just trying to stir the pot? Seriously. I'm not talkin crap or anything I just find it strange you post that but.leave out where he said he could keep both BB and AAA...

For the record, Shanahan didn't say he would keep both Banks and AAA. Shanahan's response to the question was "anything's possible." That's neither confirmation or denial, merely averting the question.

When forced to read between the lines, there's more than one way to read things. For example, one could argue that Shanahan giving Banks many opportunities last night was merely allowing Banks to audition for other teams, especially playing against players who won't even be in the league come tomorrow. Not saying that's the fact, but just a different way to look at the situation.

Listen, I can easily recognize and acknowledge all the reasons why the team should keep Banks, and I can easily recognize and acknowledge all the reasons why the team should part ways with Banks. In my personal opinion, I believe the scale weighs in favor of releasing him. I know that's an unpopular opinion around the THN community, and I fully understand and respect the varying opinions.

I think there are two standards some of you are employing in relation to Banks. Most of our receivers did zip Wednesday night--why aren't you talking the lack of production of the others? In point of fact, Banks out gained all of our other receivers put together and set up two touchdowns...yet you give the other guys a pass and come down on Banks.
Crazy thinking. Or prejudicial nonsense. Banks has to do twice as much to make the team as others do? Any reason for that?

[chiefhog44]

Sorry just read a few more of your statements, and I meant Aldrick on KO. My bad. Type-0

[crazyhorse1]

Hate to say it, because I like Banks, but I agree that he hasn't shown enough value to stick on the team. I know he was injured last year, but still, his returns were mostly painful to watch. IMHO, we have too much talent at WR this year for him to make the squad at that position, and Shanny seemed pretty firm about Banks needing to be more than a returner.

I agree. I really like Banks too. It's not that I'm just trying to pick on the guy... I like him. It's just that even though I like him, I'm trying to take the emotion of being a fan of his out of the equation and develop an opinion based more objective in nature. But it's just an opinion nonetheless.

I don't see anything at all about your opinion that is objective. You quibble about Banks, even when he does well, and don't bother to mention the poor performances of others. Where were Robinson, Austin,and Briscoe, etc. Wednesday night when Banks was gaining a 160 yards or so?

[rskin72]

After listening to shanahans post game qa session, where he discusses the decline of the return specialist over the past couple of seasons in the NFL....think the writing is on the wall for bb.

Did you actually watch his post game presser? Did you really conclude that or are u just trying to stir the pot? Seriously. I'm not talkin crap or anything I just find it strange you post that but.leave out where he said he could keep both BB and AAA... And directly after saying return guys have lost some value, "not to say you don't want a GREAT returner, because when they get their chance like we saw tonight, they can be a game changer".

He also mentioned BEST 53 a bunch,
#justsayin

Yes i watched the whole presser on csn after the game. And as someone else already mentioned, he never said he could keep both aaa and bb...he said that last season they kept 7 wr's.....and that they could keep 10 wr if they wanted but then they would be short elsewhere.

The way I interpreted what I heard was that shanny initially began to explain why the kr/pr as a specialist had lost some value recently for various reasons. Almost as if he was laying groundwork for a reason why bb may not make the team. Then he caught himself with the comment u quoted above. My interpretation of what i heard.

I am not a bb hater, nor do i have the same man crush on him that many here (and on other skins boards) have. He is fast, no questions there. He accelerates rapidly once he makes a decision. He is dangerous as well for that reason.

However, he is also prone to fumbles. He has had all of 1 return for a regular season td in two seasons. He has something like 3 catches in 2 full seasons. He has 3 catches this pre season...2 vs bills, 1 vs bucs. He has 1 run vs bucs, and a td vs bears on a return. He had a few drops in first game and he started with first team vice backups. He had problems when he was jammed on the line and could not just run past the defender. U mention devin hester....banks is not in the same league as far as i am concerned as hester actually functions as a wr and gets 20 or so catches per season, in addition to having returned far more kicks for td's. Robinson has more catches than bb in this pre season. Think briscoe does as well. So....who gets left out?
Garcon, morgan, moss, hankerson are in.....my next two would be robinson and briscoe. What about aaa, bb and austin? Aaa had a nice catch tonight, and is a speciql teams beast according to reports.

Look, if bb makes the team i wont be upset. If he does not make the team, then i will assume that the players on the roster were better all around than bb.

So....what wr's do u have making the roster, and how many do we keep?

[crazyhorse1]

When forced to read between the lines, there's more than one way to read things. For example, one could argue that Shanahan giving Banks many opportunities last night was merely allowing Banks to audition for other teams, especially playing against players who won't even be in the league come tomorrow. Not saying that's the fact, but just a different way to look at the situation

.

Well stated opinion. When forced to read between the lines, and if we take Shanny at his word (which is "dangerous to do), you are spot on here. It seems more likely that he is auditioning Banks than seeing what he can do. Doesn't Shanny already know what he can do as a returner and reverse runner?

In my personal opinion, I believe the scale weighs in favor of releasing him. I know that's an unpopular opinion around the THN community, and I fully understand and respect the varying opinions.

You know that I am a big Banks supporter, but I agree with you that the scale weighs in favor of releasing him.

1. He has looked tuuurible just tuuurible as a receiver. When a coach, whether he means it or not, tells you you have to make the team as a receiver, I would think that you would get a better showing that that. I gave him a pass on the first game, but you can't drop the ball the next game. Concentration has to there.

2. The muffed (NFL records as fumbles) punts keep coming. Had one against TB.

I fully understand your rationale for believing that he won't make the final 53.

I am not trying to convince you here, but stating that I have not changed my stance that he will be on the 53, because he is a playmaker and he has what Shanny can't teach - speed. Banks is a weapon. Personally, I think that Shanny has more up his sleeve on what he can do with Banks.

Again, not arguing with you. I see us agreeing to disagree and I respect your position. Your arguments, above, are backed up with facts and good reasoniing, in my opinion, so I don't see you as a hater.

I don't know whether Shanny will keep him on not, but the idea that he was auditioning Banks for other teams instead of getting his players ready or trying to decide whom to cut is just flat out wrong.

[Deadskins]

BB - 1st 2 years in league - 74 punt returns - 759 yds 0 TD's - 10.25 ave
- 97 kick returns - 2329 yds 1 TD - 24.01 ave

DH - 1st 2 years in league - 89 punt returns - 1251 yds 7 TD's - 14.05 ave
- 63 kick returns - 1462 yds 4 TD's - 23.2 ave

You're seriously comparing him to the best returner in history's two best years? How is that relevant?

[emoses14]

I didn't see the game in real time, so forgive the lateness, but that crawford pick in the 3rd was really impressive.

[Red_One43]

Completely agree. Like Gano, there's an obsession about keeping Banks on this team by fans. [color=yellow]Someone compared him Hester[/color], and although I do not have the stats in front of me, there is NO way he is even in the same ballpark with Hester's return stats if you compare the same timeframe of their careers.

You pointed out that someone compared Banks to Hester. Since I know that I did several times, I could be that "someone." You said no way Banks is in the leagues of Hester. Great, response because whether were talking about my post or not, you were going from memory and I don't think that anyone would dispute you here.

Now, here is where you do your own comparison:

if you compare the same time frame of their careers

Now, this is your own comparison, so yes you did compare Hester to Banks.

I didn't. Why don't you, RedOne, read the rest of the thread.

Oooooh, yes you did! Read your statement above.

Please re-read what I said before spouting off. I said compared to the same timeframe of their careers. You went off and compared 2011. How about comparing what I was referring to.

Ok, now that you are admitting that you did compare Banks to Hester, we can move on. No need for me to reread your post. Me? Spouting off?

While certainly giving Hester his props and acknowledging that Hester is better

You see, I accepted that Hester is better not only in his youth, but also now.

the fact remains that Banks had a better KOR avg. than Hester in 2011 (it's on NFL.com) So when some fans point out that Banks didn't finish in the top 20, neither did the guy who is clearly better than Banks. If you knock Banks for not being in the top 20, then knock Hester. There are a lot of variables when returning kicks - one is called blocking. My point in bringing up Hester was relevant to my argument that saying Banks was not in the top 20 is weak.

You said that you "completely agree" after quoting SkinsFreak. By posting you completely agree, to me, you are saying that you agree with SkinsFreak's point of Bank's failure to make the Top 20 in 2011. Well, the guy that you and I believe is better than Banks is didn't finish in the Top 20 either. MY POINT: That argument is weak. I know it is not your argument, but once you "completely agree" to it you are signing off on it.

Please re-read what I said before spouting off. I said compared to the same timeframe of their careers. You went off and compared 2011. How about comparing what I was referring to.
BB - 1st 2 years in league - 74 punt returns - 759 yds 0 TD's - 10.25 ave
- 97 kick returns - 2329 yds 1 TD - 24.01 ave

DH - 1st 2 years in league - 89 punt returns - 1251 yds 7 TD's - 14.05 ave
- 63 kick returns - 1462 yds 4 TD's - 23.2 ave

You tell me. is he is in Hester's league? My opinion. Not even close. 10 more TD's and 3 more yds per attempt. Thats almost 15 more yards per game more and almost 250 more yds per season on an average of just under 5 touches per game.

Since I opened my argument that Hester is better, what is your point here? MY POINT - Banks is not competing with Hester, so why bring up Hester's stats 1st 2 years stats? That is not relevant unless "someone" said that Banks is better. You haven't produced a link to show that, so what's your point. Hester is better, IMO, even though he was behind Banks in KO avg.

You never did answer the question that I posed. Why are you and so many people claiming that Banks fans are obessed with him making the team? Was Shanny obsessed when he chose Banks the last two years? Why is it that you and other who claim that he won't make it, obssessed with him not making it?

SkinsFreak admits that there are strong arguments for him making the team. I admit that there are strong arguments for him not to make the team. One (and I am sure a few others) NFL coach offered the Banks a tryout when he came out of college. Severaal coaches did not. This is an eye of the beholder issue.

Can we all agree that Banks has attributes that will help this team?

To me the question is Banks worth a roster spot? From what I have seen in the 3 seasons that this nonsense has gone on - the people that support Banks offer hard data to supoort their cases. Why is this obessesion?

Though people that want Banks cut, provide some hard data, such as you did - muffs and not a good receiver, they often resort to name calling of Banks, saying that he is too small,* calling Banks supporters obsessed, diminising his stats. None of the latter things effect whether he makes the team.

If Shanny is true to his word, Making the team as a receiver, Banks is a goner, IMO, but we all know it is hard to read Shanny. If Shanny is wants a playmaker with exceptional speed like he has in the past, he will find a way to keep him.

We don't have a Hester on our roster. We have a Banks and by 9:00pm, we will know if we still do.

[Red_One43]

Sorry just read a few more of your statements, and I meant Aldrick on KO. My bad. Type-0

No problem, the clue was "take a knee," so that was enough for me to know that you might have meant that, so I did address from both angles. Trust, me, I am not one to pick pick at someone's mistakes on their posts.