Gameday thread Buccs-Redskins

[SouthLondonRedskin]

I think the coaches need to get banks more involved with the offense, he has great hands - i can recall just maybe one mishandle last year and those balls are crazy stupid to catch when tumblin - so it is something else giving him fits when he is on offense. That is the coaches job to figure out what to do to make things right.
Everytime he touches the ball he can take it home. If the RedSkins coaches can't figure out how to utilize him i am sure another coach can.

I wish tampa bay had a better team, that was a cake walk and the boys ruled without working up a sweat. The defense was incredible, hazlit has done an amazing job - they were ready!

I can remember Banks mishandling a few last year to be honest, but he got away with them.

The way I see it is this: If he makes it into the 53 as WR #6 then what we will have is a guy that can:
(a) Return kick-offs and punts as well an anyone in the league
(b) A speedy offensive weapon for end-arounds/reverses and screen plays
(c) A guy that can also throw in such situations (remember the TD he threw last year?)
(d) a legitimate #6 receiver

Perhaps he's not the 6th best of the bunch in terms of receiving alone, but he can catch the ball and he can tear it up once he has the ball in his hands. He caught a 47 yarder or something last night to prove that much.

When you add it all up he's easily worth between 80 - 150 yards a game if utilised properly. That's better production than you could wish to hope for a #6 WR in any team.

That kind of usage of him would also take some heat of RGIII in his rookie season. After a while defenses would be on their toes looking out for BB whenever he took to the field, LBs would hold their positions looking for a trick play or something, resulting in less of a pass rush on our OL and more time for our new QB to pick out other targets potentially, or for RBs to take it in the other direction from BB.

I'm just giving examples of how BB can be a valuable weapon for our offense without even doing too much, and so he offers the team far more than AA, Austin and Robinson IMhumbleO....

[DarthMonk]

We can easily keep 6 or even 7 WRs IN ADDITION TO BANKS.

Helu was as good as LeSean McCoy last year as a pass catcher (it's true!) and continues to run well. I saw his blitz pickup improve last year. No clue this year about that. Needs to stay healthy - when he is he is my starter. He's very fast and bigger than most realize.

So far so good with Cundiff though I thought he got lazy on alignment on the 46 yarder. He lined up on the right upright and then pushed it.

Looks like Danny Smith didn't ask for any pylon kicks. Blocking was good too. Whew!

RGIII would beat Banks in a 40 - over hurdles!

DarthMonk

[Deadskins]

Helu > Royster

Nope.

I like Helu better. Gotta wait and see. He's certainly faster and I've always thought he presses the right hole really well ... so to speak.

I agree that Helu is faster, but Royster is the better runner. He has much better vision and is much more shifty in his cuts.

[Deadskins]

He threw one deep ball in preseason, that flew 70 yards.

So, I reread your post and noticed this. Don't worry about giving me proof because it's clear that you haven't even watched the games. He threw 1 deep pass? LMAO. He threw 3 against the Colts alone! LMAO

I'm pretty sure he meant that one of RGIII's deep passes went 70 yards, not that he's only thrown one deep pass.

[Chris Luva Luva]

He threw one deep ball in preseason, that flew 70 yards.

So, I reread your post and noticed this. Don't worry about giving me proof because it's clear that you haven't even watched the games. He threw 1 deep pass? LMAO. He threw 3 against the Colts alone! LMAO

I'm pretty sure he meant that one of RGIII's deep passes went 70 yards, not that he's only thrown one deep pass.

Not that I'm arguing with you about this but I don't see the relevance of specifying a 70 yard pass. Does this mean a 60 yard pass isn't a deep ball? What about 50 yards?

My point is that throughout training camp and preseason, he hasn't connected. It wasn't even mean spirited, lmao.

My other point is that Kirk has. And I've seen it with my own eyes at TC and during the preseason.

He and someone else just got really butt-hurt that I made an obvious observation.

[Deadskins]

He threw one deep ball in preseason, that flew 70 yards.

So, I reread your post and noticed this. Don't worry about giving me proof because it's clear that you haven't even watched the games. He threw 1 deep pass? LMAO. He threw 3 against the Colts alone! LMAO

I'm pretty sure he meant that one of RGIII's deep passes went 70 yards, not that he's only thrown one deep pass.

Not that I'm arguing with you about this but I don't see the relevance of specifying a 70 yard pass.

I just think he was saying Griffin has the stronger arm.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I just think he was saying Griffin has the stronger arm.

And in turn, I'd tell him that the arm is useless if he's inaccurate.

[Deadskins]

I just think he was saying Griffin has the stronger arm.

And in turn, I'd tell him that the arm is useless if he's inaccurate.

#Jason Campbell

[tribeofjudah]

Helu > Royster

Nope.

I like Helu better. Gotta wait and see. He's certainly faster and I've always thought he presses the right hole really well ... so to speak.

I agree that Helu is faster, but Royster is the better runner. He has much better vision and is much more shifty in his cuts.

NOT....Helu is better

[Deadskins]

Helu > Royster

Nope.

I like Helu better. Gotta wait and see. He's certainly faster and I've always thought he presses the right hole really well ... so to speak.

I agree that Helu is faster, but Royster is the better runner. He has much better vision and is much more shifty in his cuts.

NOT....Helu is better

NOT, yourself.
Go back and look at video of both. Helu is a one cut runner, while Royster makes people miss, even in tight spaces. I'm not saying Helu isn't a good back, just that Royster is the better pure runner.

[SkinsFreak]

I can remember Banks mishandling a few last year to be honest, but he got away with them.

In 2011, Banks ranked 2nd in the league with the most fumbles on punt returns with 5 fumbles. Banks tied for 2nd most fumbles on kick returns with 2 fumbles. Fumbling has been a problem that has plagued Banks throughout his career. His muffed punt and fumble last night didn't help his cause. Just saying...

Last year, Banks kickoff-return average dropped from 25.1 to 23.8, which didn’t even put him in the top 20, and his punt-return average fell off too, from 11.3 to a 9.1 average, ranking Banks tied for 42nd best in the league.

"There’s no doubt about it, the new rule has diminished the importance of the kickoff return — and by extension, the importance of the returner. And few players have felt its impact more than Banks, whose contributions are essentially limited to special teams. In fact, it might ultimately be what costs him his job. Think about that: He might get driven out of the league by a rule change.

Consider: Sixteen times, an average of once a game, he ran a kickoff out of the end zone and didn’t make it to the 20-yard line. Five times he didn’t make it past the 15."

I think Shanahan echoed Danny Smith with his comments last night regarding the diminished role of a kick-returner.

"Danny Smith, the special teams coach, talked about that last week, about how return guys have had to develop a different mindset. A 25-yard runback, for instance, might sound good, but if it only gets you to the 18, wouldn’t you have been better off taking a knee? Players, Smith said, sometimes get preoccupied with their own stats and forget that “ultimately it’s about field position and where you put the ball in play. It’s the decision-making: when to bring it [out] and when not to."

So if the kick-returner is going to be taking a knee the majority of the time, does the team really need to retain Banks just to take a knee on most kickoffs? The coaches would then have to consider; can more versatile players such as Moss, Robinson, AAA or Paul get the ball to the 20-yardline on the few actual returnable kicks with an occasional long return? I think so...

In my opinion, I don't believe Banks really helped himself last night. He's too one-dimensional. I think he's a liability as a WR, his role as a returner has been diminished by the rule change and, the occasional gadget play the team may run half-a-dozen times or so a year isn't enough to warrant a position on the team with such a deep roster, especially when you have other more versatile players who could handle those roles.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I just think he was saying Griffin has the stronger arm.

And in turn, I'd tell him that the arm is useless if he's inaccurate.

Then I'd point out that Cousins is connecting vs 2s and 3s.. and has had far worse accuracy problems on all routes. I love the pick and glad to have him and watch him mature but there really isn't one faucet of the game I give him an edge in. I know you werent bashing RGiii, I was trying to be more humorous then rude btw, (i do know how to spell ignant ) I just disagree. That's sweet you made it to TC, I was stuck reading the reports everyday. While I can't argue that he is 100% on deep balls I know from the valid sources he's connected w Garçon, Moss, Hanktime etc on deep routes OFTEN. I also know, from being a whiff for griff/ win for griffin supporter since last September, that his deep ball accuracy is one of his STRENGTHS and better then ya boy Cousins and Luck.
Let's see who can provide the link faster eh? Lol

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

In my opinion, I don't believe Banks really helped himself last night. He's too one-dimensional. I think he's a liability as a WR, his role as a returner has been diminished by the rule change and, the occasional gadget play the team may run half-a-dozen times or so a year isn't enough to warrant a position on the team with such a deep roster, especially when you have other more versatile players who could handle those roles.

Big Run plays, big catch play, and good return yards isnt versatile? He accounted for something like 167 yards last night.. more then any of those other guys have put up all preseason.

*Shanny answered the question then backed up BB. I posted about it last page.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Helu > Royster

Nope.

I like Helu better. Gotta wait and see. He's certainly faster and I've always thought he presses the right hole really well ... so to speak.

I agree that Helu is faster, but Royster is the better runner. He has much better vision and is much more shifty in his cuts.

NOT....Helu is better

NOT, yourself.
Go back and look at video of both. Helu is a one cut runner, while Royster makes people miss, even in tight spaces. I'm not saying Helu isn't a good back, just that Royster is the better pure runner.

I think they compliment each other.. Helu has speed but if he can't get around the corner he will lose yards. With the NFC east ends and olbs it won't be easy for him. Royster is the one cut find the hole runner w great vision. His runs aren't trying to race to the edge its between the ol turning it upfield. He also fights forever gaining that extra yard after being hit. Both are good and good to have IMO.

[Irn-Bru]

I can remember Banks mishandling a few last year to be honest, but he got away with them.

In 2011, Banks ranked 2nd in the league with the most fumbles on punt returns with 5 fumbles. Banks tied for 2nd most fumbles on kick returns with 2 fumbles. Fumbling has been a problem that has plagued Banks throughout his career. His muffed punt and fumble last night didn't help his cause. Just saying...

Last year, Banks kickoff-return average dropped from 25.1 to 23.8, which didn’t even put him in the top 20, and his punt-return average fell off too, from 11.3 to a 9.1 average, ranking Banks tied for 42nd best in the league.

"There’s no doubt about it, the new rule has diminished the importance of the kickoff return — and by extension, the importance of the returner. And few players have felt its impact more than Banks, whose contributions are essentially limited to special teams. In fact, it might ultimately be what costs him his job. Think about that: He might get driven out of the league by a rule change.

Consider: Sixteen times, an average of once a game, he ran a kickoff out of the end zone and didn’t make it to the 20-yard line. Five times he didn’t make it past the 15."

I think Shanahan echoed Danny Smith with his comments last night regarding the diminished role of a kick-returner.

"Danny Smith, the special teams coach, talked about that last week, about how return guys have had to develop a different mindset. A 25-yard runback, for instance, might sound good, but if it only gets you to the 18, wouldn’t you have been better off taking a knee? Players, Smith said, sometimes get preoccupied with their own stats and forget that “ultimately it’s about field position and where you put the ball in play. It’s the decision-making: when to bring it [out] and when not to."

So if the kick-returner is going to be taking a knee the majority of the time, does the team really need to retain Banks just to take a knee on most kickoffs? The coaches would then have to consider; can more versatile players such as Moss, Robinson, AAA or Paul get the ball to the 20-yardline on the few actual returnable kicks with an occasional long return? I think so...

In my opinion, I don't believe Banks really helped himself last night. He's too one-dimensional. I think he's a liability as a WR, his role as a returner has been diminished by the rule change and, the occasional gadget play the team may run half-a-dozen times or so a year isn't enough to warrant a position on the team with such a deep roster, especially when you have other more versatile players who could handle those roles.

Hate to say it, because I like Banks, but I agree that he hasn't shown enough value to stick on the team. I know he was injured last year, but still, his returns were mostly painful to watch. IMHO, we have too much talent at WR this year for him to make the squad at that position, and Shanny seemed pretty firm about Banks needing to be more than a returner.

[SkinsFreak]

Did you actually watch his post game presser? Did you really conclude that or are u just trying to stir the pot? Seriously. I'm not talkin crap or anything I just find it strange you post that but.leave out where he said he could keep both BB and AAA...

For the record, Shanahan didn't say he would keep both Banks and AAA. Shanahan's response to the question was "anything's possible." That's neither confirmation or denial, merely averting the question.

When forced to read between the lines, there's more than one way to read things. For example, one could argue that Shanahan giving Banks many opportunities last night was merely allowing Banks to audition for other teams, especially playing against players who won't even be in the league come tomorrow. Not saying that's the fact, but just a different way to look at the situation.

Listen, I can easily recognize and acknowledge all the reasons why the team should keep Banks, and I can easily recognize and acknowledge all the reasons why the team should part ways with Banks. In my personal opinion, I believe the scale weighs in favor of releasing him. I know that's an unpopular opinion around the THN community, and I fully understand and respect the varying opinions.

[SkinsFreak]

Hate to say it, because I like Banks, but I agree that he hasn't shown enough value to stick on the team. I know he was injured last year, but still, his returns were mostly painful to watch. IMHO, we have too much talent at WR this year for him to make the squad at that position, and Shanny seemed pretty firm about Banks needing to be more than a returner.

I agree. I really like Banks too. It's not that I'm just trying to pick on the guy... I like him. It's just that even though I like him, I'm trying to take the emotion of being a fan of his out of the equation and develop an opinion based more objective in nature. But it's just an opinion nonetheless.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Did you actually watch his post game presser? Did you really conclude that or are u just trying to stir the pot? Seriously. I'm not talkin crap or anything I just find it strange you post that but.leave out where he said he could keep both BB and AAA...

For the record, Shanahan didn't say he would keep both Banks and AAA. Shanahan's response to the question was "anything's possible." That's neither confirmation or denial, merely averting the question.

When forced to read between the lines, there's more than one way to read things. For example, one could argue that Shanahan giving Banks many opportunities last night was merely allowing Banks to audition for other teams, especially playing against players who won't even be in the league come tomorrow. Not saying that's the fact, but just a different way to look at the situation.

Listen, I can easily recognize and acknowledge all the reasons why the team should keep Banks, and I can easily recognize and acknowledge all the reasons why the team should part ways with Banks. In my personal opinion, I believe the scale weighs in favor of releasing him. I know that's an unpopular opinion around the THN community, and I fully understand and respect the varying opinions.

Ftr I he said he COULD keep them both, and that he COULD keep ten... But he'd be short on other positions.
I think THN is actually more torn then say Twitter land.. a poll might show 50/50 or even more people not wanting him.
I'm for best 53. Game changers, homerun threats, and chunk yard guys are something we are not deep in is why Im passionate about keeping him. We don't have a djax or Hester.. we have a lil BB who has his own way of breaking plays beit on O or returning. We will probably know by tonight I'd say.

[chiefhog44]

I can remember Banks mishandling a few last year to be honest, but he got away with them.

In 2011, Banks ranked 2nd in the league with the most fumbles on punt returns with 5 fumbles. Banks tied for 2nd most fumbles on kick returns with 2 fumbles. Fumbling has been a problem that has plagued Banks throughout his career. His muffed punt and fumble last night didn't help his cause. Just saying...

Last year, Banks kickoff-return average dropped from 25.1 to 23.8, which didn’t even put him in the top 20, and his punt-return average fell off too, from 11.3 to a 9.1 average, ranking Banks tied for 42nd best in the league.

"There’s no doubt about it, the new rule has diminished the importance of the kickoff return — and by extension, the importance of the returner. And few players have felt its impact more than Banks, whose contributions are essentially limited to special teams. In fact, it might ultimately be what costs him his job. Think about that: He might get driven out of the league by a rule change.

Consider: Sixteen times, an average of once a game, he ran a kickoff out of the end zone and didn’t make it to the 20-yard line. Five times he didn’t make it past the 15."

I think Shanahan echoed Danny Smith with his comments last night regarding the diminished role of a kick-returner.

"Danny Smith, the special teams coach, talked about that last week, about how return guys have had to develop a different mindset. A 25-yard runback, for instance, might sound good, but if it only gets you to the 18, wouldn’t you have been better off taking a knee? Players, Smith said, sometimes get preoccupied with their own stats and forget that “ultimately it’s about field position and where you put the ball in play. It’s the decision-making: when to bring it [out] and when not to."

So if the kick-returner is going to be taking a knee the majority of the time, does the team really need to retain Banks just to take a knee on most kickoffs? The coaches would then have to consider; can more versatile players such as Moss, Robinson, AAA or Paul get the ball to the 20-yardline on the few actual returnable kicks with an occasional long return? I think so...

In my opinion, I don't believe Banks really helped himself last night. He's too one-dimensional. I think he's a liability as a WR, his role as a returner has been diminished by the rule change and, the occasional gadget play the team may run half-a-dozen times or so a year isn't enough to warrant a position on the team with such a deep roster, especially when you have other more versatile players who could handle those roles.

Hate to say it, because I like Banks, but I agree that he hasn't shown enough value to stick on the team. I know he was injured last year, but still, his returns were mostly painful to watch. IMHO, we have too much talent at WR this year for him to make the squad at that position, and Shanny seemed pretty firm about Banks needing to be more than a returner.

Completely agree. Like Gano, there's an obsession about keeping Banks on this team by fans. Someone compared him Hester, and although I do not have the stats in front of me, there is NO way he is even in the same ballpark with Hester's return stats if you compare the same timeframe of their careers. I think you get very similar stats from Santana (without the drops) on punts, and probably better starting field position using someone like Aldrick on punt returns (if he makes good decisions to take a knee in the end zone...something Banks will not do).

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

For me its.. do you want to see this player on a team like the pukes? Gano? Eh don't care. Players that play like crap, send em. But you talk about sending a playmaker over there, and I just don't want that kinda crap to happen.
Last year w the new rule and his injury his stats fell off,
Year before he WAS top three in the league. No big deal.

[chiefhog44]

I just think he was saying Griffin has the stronger arm.

And in turn, I'd tell him that the arm is useless if he's inaccurate.

Then I'd point out that Cousins is connecting vs 2s and 3s.. and has had far worse accuracy problems on all routes. I love the pick and glad to have him and watch him mature but there really isn't one faucet of the game I give him an edge in. I know you werent bashing RGiii, I was trying to be more humorous then rude btw, (i do know how to spell ignant ) I just disagree. That's sweet you made it to TC, I was stuck reading the reports everyday. While I can't argue that he is 100% on deep balls I know from the valid sources he's connected w Garçon, Moss, Hanktime etc on deep routes OFTEN. I also know, from being a whiff for griff/ win for griffin supporter since last September, that his deep ball accuracy is one of his STRENGTHS and better then ya boy Cousins and Luck.
Let's see who can provide the link faster eh? Lol

Couldn't have said it better. Would there be as much of a window against 1s? Maybe, but I doubt it.

I don't think anyone is bashing RG3, nor saying Cousins is a better QB. Saying Cousins has a better deep ball to this point is like comparing apples to pretzels. Especially if you use the following for proof...
1. Throwing against 2s, 3s, and against players who aren't going to be in the NFL by the end of the week. CLL actually made the point when he was throwing against roster cuts last night.
2. Using articles written by reporters about the subject who know about as much as my coffee cup about football (granted my coffee cup has a picture of the hogs on the side of it), and may or may not have some axe to grind.
3. Attending training camp could be pretty valid, and good for you if you are drawing your own conclusion on it. I would ask how many practices did you attend and was it early or late in camp...meaning is it new or stale news?

Anyway, hope you get my point. I get yours. Cousins looks good. He's had some nice hook-ups on the long ball. I've been telling everyone in Chicago that for a few weeks now. But your point was made against scrubs and I think your proof is a bit questionable.

[riggofan]

For me its.. do you want to see this player on a team like the pukes? Gano? Eh don't care. Players that play like crap, send em. But you talk about sending a playmaker over there, and I just don't want that kinda crap to happen.
Last year w the new rule and his injury his stats fell off,
Year before he WAS top three in the league. No big deal.

I know what you're saying about seeing Banks go to another team. But I think people are really overstating this playmaker thing.

[Chris Luva Luva]

If my proof is questionable, disprove it. Or come up with proof.

John Keim and others have no reason to lie about the kid, it is what it is. Like I said, he hasn't connected. Kirk has. It's just an observation. I fully expect RGIII to get it together.

[SouthLondonRedskin]

OK, to put it another way, if we wave goodbye to BB and say keep AA or Austin in his place as the last WR as it were; who would give the team more yardage over the season....?

It has to be BB. Over 150 last night and he can do that by taking to the field 15 times or less, that's the difference.

Whilst he certainly has his flaws, his upside is worth it and last nights stats demonstrate that. Maybe KO returns are less important now, but there's plenty of punts to return, and he has that extra dynamic of featuring in the offense with a gadget play if that's what you call it. Yeah, we might only run them six times a season but each time it can lea to a score or high yardage, which can be vital in a clutch game. We have six clutch games in our division alone!

If we let him go I'm convinced whoever gets his spot will contribute far less over a season, unless the WRs are hit by loads of big injuries. And I mean loads.

For AA or someone else to contribute better potential numbers than BB they'd need to be on the field far more than BB would need to be, thereby robbing players like Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Briscoe and Moss of valuable game time.

BB can deliver that kind of yardage without robbing us of our best WRs throughout the game.

Having said all that I get the same feeling about him as I did about ey a while back, so he mey well be ob his way this time tomorrow....

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

If my proof is questionable, disprove it. Or come up with proof.

John Keim and others have no reason to lie about the kid, it is what it is. Like I said, he hasn't connected. Kirk has. It's just an observation. I fully expect RGIII to get it together.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... iii-1.html

And yer boy

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... ins-1.html

Want youtube videos?
As of now RGiii is a little off on some timings of his deep throws, but that comes. Cousins has had the luxury of hucking it vs back ups and people not making the team- no timing needed. Another note some of those bombs from Rgiii were very catchable.

Lastly I give you the training camp thread.