OTAs.......... Updated 5/30

the poster · Post by **the poster** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:16 pm

emoses14 wrote:Other than obvious trolls, who isn't this kid impressing?

i have a more important question......what does it matter?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:27 pm

DFTT = Don't feed the Troll.

the poster · Post by **the poster** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:55 pm

emoses14 wrote:Other than obvious trolls, who isn't this kid impressing?

If I were a Redskins fan, I would be happy that I would be going into a season with something to look forward to. Something to watch. And something that appears to be exciting. And something that is definately NEW.

I can recognize the joy a fan or fanbase can have with having something to not only root for, but to have it as their own (it's their "guy"...they drafted him).

So, I'm happy for you for that.

But....you know there'd be a but....

I'd just be wary of the Redskins mgmt practise. That's my whole thing here. That's my whole deal. I have no doubt that Rg3 is a phenomal athlete. But...this whole offseason looks EXACTLY, to a T, of past seasons. They are following up on not just a bad season, but a boring, bad season. They had a half empty stadium for a bunch of their late season games.

And I know what Dan Snyder has done in the past after seasons like 2003 or 2009. And that's what I'm worried about. The businessman goes into hyper-mega-marketing-mania man for his customer base.

"R you in?" As he plasters Donovan McNabb's face on city buses.

So....I don't know if we're talking about real football change here or are we talking about the Redskins latest marketing campaign.

Let's face it, they tried for Peyton Manning FIRST. Now they got RG3 - unloading a wheelbarrow full of first round draft picks to get him.

Is this really 100% about football? Or is Daniel Snyder selling you Joe Gibbs, or Mike Shanahan, or the latest new exciting thing?

It's not that I don't believe in RG3, its more about I don't believe in 100% in the motives of your owner, who but only a few years ago, chose to hire a coach because YOU the FAN voiced your opinion against the hiring of a different coach. He does what he thinks his customers want. Which is NOT the way to build a winning sports team. But we'll see. I hope they win.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:21 pm

emoses14 wrote:
Kirk Cousins, the quarterback the Redskins drafted three rounds after they took Griffin, marvels at RG III's accuracy. Cousins has seen plenty of passers who can throw hard. He has also seen a lot who can throw long. But to throw the ball three quarters of the length of the field and have it land right where you want it?

This, Cousins had never seen.

"He can put the ball into tight windows," he said.

Hehehehehehehehe

Can't. Wait.

We've seen it on the practice field and in college tape. It's going to be pretty damn exciting in B&G.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:22 pm

emoses14 wrote:Other than obvious trolls, who isn't this kid impressing?

I'm sure there are some haters left, too. Somewhere. There always are.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:31 pm

the poster wrote:
emoses14 wrote:Other than obvious trolls, who isn't this kid impressing?
If I were a Redskins fan, I would be happy that I would be going into a season with something to look forward to. Something to watch. And something that appears to be exciting. And something that is definately NEW.

I can recognize the joy a fan or fanbase can have with having something to not only root for, but to have it as their own (it's their "guy"...they drafted him).

So, I'm happy for you for that.

But....you know there'd be a but....

I'd just be wary of the Redskins mgmt practise. That's my whole thing here. That's my whole deal. I have no doubt that Rg3 is a phenomal athlete. But...this whole offseason looks EXACTLY, to a T, of past seasons. They are following up on not just a bad season, but a boring, bad season. They had a half empty stadium for a bunch of their late season games.

And I know what Dan Snyder has done in the past after seasons like 2003 or 2009. And that's what I'm worried about. The businessman goes into hyper-mega-marketing-mania man for his customer base.

"R you in?" As he plasters Donovan McNabb's face on city buses.

So....I don't know if we're talking about real football change here or are we talking about the Redskins latest marketing campaign.

Let's face it, they tried for Peyton Manning FIRST. Now they got RG3 - unloading a wheelbarrow full of first round draft picks to get him.

Is this really 100% about football? Or is Daniel Snyder selling you Joe Gibbs, or Mike Shanahan, or the latest new exciting thing?

It's not that I don't believe in RG3, its more about I don't believe in 100% in the motives of your owner, who but only a few years ago, chose to hire a coach because YOU the FAN voiced your opinion against the hiring of a different coach. He does what he thinks his customers want. Which is NOT the way to build a winning sports team. But we'll see. I hope they win.

I think that everyone on this site would not consider me a rose-colored glass fan -- far from it. But you are really just looking for stuff to complain about. Trust me, I hate Snyder. I wish he would sell the team. I can't express that enough. But, I'm not sure your facts are totally straight. In particular with Manning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ear ... _blog.html

In terms of him doing what the customers want -- I wish that were true. For over a decade he has traded away picks for aging vets for huge contracts. I think that Snyder does what he wants while grossly lacking the football mind to do it -- and that is why we are in this mess.

As far as this offseason being similar to last years -- I don't agree. RGIII was drafted. Sure they traded picks away, but at least it was for picks and not aging vets as in the past. I can understand the similarity in that he traded away picks for something, but this is a very unique situation in that RGIII may very well be a franchise QB. Would you trade away 2 firsts and a second for a 23 year old Tom Brady???? I think everyone would -- and the skins are willing to trade it for the chance at that. It's a risk, but so is almost every pick in the draft. Do I think that they spent too much -- right now I do BUT if he works out as planned, it will be the steal of the draft.

As far as the whole next exciting thing -- that is WAY off. If he were to do that he wouldn't have drafted a rookie, a rookie that needs to be trained and will take time to develop. He would have gone out and gotten big name vet and not a rookie. Say what you want, but I honestly don't think our FO is being run by Snyder right now. I believe trade was completed by Allen and MS.

I consider myself a fairly big pessimist compared to most on this board, but you are at a whole different level. You're just a troll.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:37 pm

Oh no...

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:45 pm

markshark84 wrote:
I think that everyone on this site would not consider me a rose-colored glass fan -- far from it. But you are really just looking for stuff to complain about. Trust me, I hate Snyder. I wish he would sell the team. I can't express that enough. But, I'm not sure your facts are totally straight. In particular with Manning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ear ... _blog.html

In terms of him doing what the customers want -- I wish that were true. For over a decade he has traded away picks for aging vets for huge contracts. I think that Snyder does what he wants while grossly lacking the football mind to do it -- and that is why we are in this mess.

As far as this offseason being similar to last years -- I don't agree. RGIII was drafted. Sure they traded picks away, but at least it was for picks and not aging vets as in the past. I can understand the similarity in that he traded away picks for something, but this is a very unique situation in that RGIII may very well be a franchise QB. Would you trade away 2 firsts and a second for a 23 year old Tom Brady???? I think everyone would -- and the skins are willing to trade it for the chance at that. It's a risk, but so is almost every pick in the draft. Do I think that they spent too much -- right now I do BUT if he works out as planned, it will be the steal of the draft.

As far as the whole next exciting thing -- that is WAY off. If he were to do that he wouldn't have drafted a rookie, a rookie that needs to be trained and will take time to develop. He would have gone out and gotten big name vet and not a rookie. Say what you want, but I honestly don't think our FO is being run by Snyder right now. I believe trade was completed by Allen and MS.

I consider myself a fairly big pessimist compared to most on this board, but you are at a whole different level. You're just a troll.

+1 on ALL of ^^^

not to mention the 1st round pick next year being traded lightens the CapGate issue.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:49 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
emoses14 wrote:Other than obvious trolls, who isn't this kid impressing?
I'm sure there are some haters left, too. Somewhere. There always are.

Yeah, you're right. He's probably not impressing many in dallas and philly.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:07 pm

markshark84 wrote:
the poster wrote:
I think that everyone on this site would not consider me a rose-colored glass fan -- far from it. But you are really just looking for stuff to complain about. Trust me, I hate Snyder. I wish he would sell the team. I can't express that enough. But, I'm not sure your facts are totally straight. In particular with Manning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ear ... _blog.html

In terms of him doing what the customers want -- I wish that were true. For over a decade he has traded away picks for aging vets for huge contracts. I think that Snyder does what he wants while grossly lacking the football mind to do it -- and that is why we are in this mess.

As far as this offseason being similar to last years -- I don't agree. RGIII was drafted. Sure they traded picks away, but at least it was for picks and not aging vets as in the past. I can understand the similarity in that he traded away picks for something, but this is a very unique situation in that RGIII may very well be a franchise QB. Would you trade away 2 firsts and a second for a 23 year old Tom Brady???? I think everyone would -- and the skins are willing to trade it for the chance at that. It's a risk, but so is almost every pick in the draft. Do I think that they spent too much -- right now I do BUT if he works out as planned, it will be the steal of the draft.

As far as the whole next exciting thing -- that is WAY off. If he were to do that he wouldn't have drafted a rookie, a rookie that needs to be trained and will take time to develop. He would have gone out and gotten big name vet and not a rookie. Say what you want, but I honestly don't think our FO is being run by Snyder right now. I believe trade was completed by Allen and MS.

I consider myself a fairly big pessimist compared to most on this board, but you are at a whole different level. You're just a troll.

You don't get it. She doesn't care. She doesn't care if you are an optimist. She doesn't care if you are a pessimist. She doesn't care about anything except getting a rise... from YOU... or anyone else. DFTT

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:11 pm

emoses14 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
emoses14 wrote:Other than obvious trolls, who isn't this kid impressing?
I'm sure there are some haters left, too. Somewhere. There always are.
Yeah, you're right. He's probably not impressing many in dallas and philly.

au contraire... I'll bet he's impressing the hell out of the Eagles and the Cowchips. As far as the fans of those teams are concerned, what would THEY know... they are fans of the Cowchips and the Eagles, after all...

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:04 pm

markshark84 wrote:I consider myself a fairly big pessimist compared to most on this board, but you are at a whole different level. You're just a troll.

Haven't been here for a while, huh Mark?

the poster · Post by **the poster** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:13 am

But, I'm not sure your facts are totally straight. In particular with Manning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ear ... html/quote]

your timeline is out of whack, buddy. they traded with the rams after manning told them no. after they traded, he was asked about it and he commented like most of America (that wasn't living in dc) with the basis of they gave up WHAt for WHAt?! man, they are desperate.

In terms of him doing what the customers want -- I wish that were true. For over a decade he has traded away picks for aging vets for huge contracts. I think that Snyder does what he wants while grossly lacking the football mind to do it -- and that is why we are in this mess.

we disagree. I believe he runs the redskins with the marketing principles he's always had with every business he's ever run. he is a marketing man, after all.

and the clearest case of this for me will always be the time where he was about to give Jim fassell the hc job and the sports radio stations blew up in anger from fans and he changed his mind with accordance to the public.

As far as this offseason being similar to last years -- I don't agree. RGIII was drafted. Sure they traded picks away, but at least it was for picks and not aging vets as in the past. I can understand the similarity in that he traded away picks for something, but this is a very unique situation in that RGIII may very well be a franchise QB. Would you trade away
I cut it off here because that's about where I stopped reading. wow. you missed the point by a mile. I'm not getting to a debate with you about the importance of a franchise qb and how many draft picks is it worth.

I'm wondering if this team is either:
a. making moves strictly based on being a becoming a better football team
b. making moves to excite a fan base that has been lulled to sleep once again by a couple of seasons of boring, bad football.

now, you'll say it's a combination, a and b. and I'll agree with you. but b goes first, before a, with this organization.

from Steve spurrier to Joe Gibbs to no Jim fassell, to mike shanahan to Donovan mcnabb, they try and sell you excitement. and most of you sheep fall for it every time. at least for a little while. by november, you're experiencing what I've told you will happen.

As far as the whole next exciting thing -- that is WAY off. If he were to do that he wouldn't have drafted a rookie, a rookie that needs to be trained and will take time to develop.

wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong. this is the moat wrong thing ever said. you just don't know as much as I do about marketing, advertising, and sales.

go search on you tube for embarrassing videos of a stadium chanting rg3s name during the draft selection process and it erupting after they chose him. then they have him there , singing the teams fight song with the fans, and they have him run out of the tunnel in a suit, between two rows of cheerleaders. you should be embarrassed as a fan with the display your team puts on. they didn't turn Andrew luck into a miss America like Washington did with rg3. but"........ that's the redskin way.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:20 am

markshark is a little like RiC in that they want this kid to be as good as he can be but they are going to wait a little before they go and annoint the future saviour - that's fair

I'm not going to predict that we'll win the NFC East this year but I do look for this franchise to be consistently competitive for many years with him as the QB here

I'm not looking for RG3 to be the best QB in the NFL this season - he'll need time - he will become one of them though

all of us (well, most of us) will look back on this trade and know that bringing in Robert Griffin III was instrumental in elevating this franchise

this kid is going to lead this franchise back to glory

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:28 pm

the poster wrote:
But, I'm not sure your facts are totally straight. In particular with Manning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ear ... html/quote]

your timeline is out of whack, buddy. they traded with the rams after manning told them no. after they traded, he was asked about it and he commented like most of America (that wasn't living in dc) with the basis of they gave up WHAt for WHAt?! man, they are desperate.

In terms of him doing what the customers want -- I wish that were true. For over a decade he has traded away picks for aging vets for huge contracts. I think that Snyder does what he wants while grossly lacking the football mind to do it -- and that is why we are in this mess.

we disagree. I believe he runs the redskins with the marketing principles he's always had with every business he's ever run. he is a marketing man, after all.

and the clearest case of this for me will always be the time where he was about to give Jim fassell the hc job and the sports radio stations blew up in anger from fans and he changed his mind with accordance to the public.

As far as this offseason being similar to last years -- I don't agree. RGIII was drafted. Sure they traded picks away, but at least it was for picks and not aging vets as in the past. I can understand the similarity in that he traded away picks for something, but this is a very unique situation in that RGIII may very well be a franchise QB. Would you trade away
I cut it off here because that's about where I stopped reading. wow. you missed the point by a mile. I'm not getting to a debate with you about the importance of a franchise qb and how many draft picks is it worth.

I'm wondering if this team is either:
a. making moves strictly based on being a becoming a better football team
b. making moves to excite a fan base that has been lulled to sleep once again by a couple of seasons of boring, bad football.

now, you'll say it's a combination, a and b. and I'll agree with you. but b goes first, before a, with this organization.

from Steve spurrier to Joe Gibbs to no Jim fassell, to mike shanahan to Donovan mcnabb, they try and sell you excitement. and most of you sheep fall for it every time. at least for a little while. by november, you're experiencing what I've told you will happen.

As far as the whole next exciting thing -- that is WAY off. If he were to do that he wouldn't have drafted a rookie, a rookie that needs to be trained and will take time to develop.
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong. this is the moat wrong thing ever said. you just don't know as much as I do about marketing, advertising, and sales.

go search on you tube for embarrassing videos of a stadium chanting rg3s name during the draft selection process and it erupting after they chose him. then they have him there , singing the teams fight song with the fans, and they have him run out of the tunnel in a suit, between two rows of cheerleaders. you should be embarrassed as a fan with the display your team puts on. they didn't turn Andrew luck into a miss America like Washington did with rg3. but"........ that's the redskin way.

OK..... for someone who always proclaims they post everything with reliable support, I see a ton of opinion with little to 0 support. I also see a ton of opinion stated as fact -- when you have no idea.

1. read the manning article. it contradicts you. they made the trade before they even had their face to face with manning. would love it if you would actually source your opinion with some support. perhaps even do some research on it. sorry, i just don't believe you personally. give me a reliable reference and maybe i will start listening or even taking you remotely serious.

2. why they traded for RGIII has everything to do with it. if you don't understand that, then you don't understand football.

3. you are absoultely correct in that snyder is a marketing person....and honestly, he is good at it and as an owner marketing your team is one your bigger jobs/priorities. and anyone intelligent would know he is going to continue marketing the skins regardless of getting McNabb or Deon or the "Jetskins" or RGIII or whomever. That is part of the "business" side of the sport. Do you understand there is a business side?

Now, the reason I made the comment that I don't believe Snyder is running the FO, is because I believe the FO (MS and BA; NOT Snyder) is drafting/trading for purposes of building a better football team and not selling jerseys -- therefore Snyder had nothing to do with the trade. You may have missed that... Once the FO has made their moves, it is up to the marketing people (Snyder) to spin it whichever way they deem fit. And it appears that is what Snyder is doing -- which I don't see anything wrong with (although I would like RGIII to focus more on the sport).

And if I missed the point, you need to articulate it clearer, because that is not a character trait of mine. Perhaps you were missing mine -- because the trade for RGIII had everything to do with point (a) of yours above. The FO is making moves which they believe will make the team a better football team. Ironically (perhaps for you) however, is that drafting players with the expectation they will make the team better is inherantly exciting; therefore the fan base will become more excited as a result. So when discussing one player and not a collective group --- (a) can breed (b); however (b) cannot breed (a) -- therefore, if you have both -- which you believe based on your statement -- (a) must be at the root. I am sorry if you don't understand that simple concept.

4. I would love to know your expertise in Marketing/Advertising and how much more you know about it than me. Do you have some sort of advanced degree in it? Marketing/advertising was one of my college majors..... one of them because I was told employers don't take the degree seriously.... Please IM me with your background. I would love to know..... and please don't tell me you are one of those guys/girls who spins the condo signs on the side of the road....

4. The "redskins" way -- you are correct; and I HATE it. I hate the ra ra nature of the skins -- but we have a supportive fan base; sorry if you are jealous of it. So I guess you are a jealous troll...

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:40 pm

Seriously, MS... you are attempting to debate a troll... please don't feed her.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:42 pm

Any more updates on OTAs or have they concluded?

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:41 pm

Countertrey wrote:Seriously, MS... you are attempting to debate a troll... please don't feed her.

I know, I know -- it is difficult to turn a blind eye to ignorance. I will do my best moving forward.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:32 pm

markshark84 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Seriously, MS... you are attempting to debate a troll... please don't feed her.
I know, I know -- it is difficult to turn a blind eye to ignorance. I will do my best moving forward.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:47 pm

andyjens89 wrote:Any more updates on OTAs or have they concluded?

The last week of OTAs started today.... June 4-7

Minicamp will be from June 11 to June 14

the poster · Post by **the poster** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:49 pm

OK..... for someone who always proclaims they post everything with reliable support, I see a ton of opinion with little to 0 support.

I don't wanna sound like Sheldon Cooper here, but I'm not sure I really "always proclaim" that "everything" is always based in 100% fact and nothing comes from opinion. But anyways, I understand I'm on the road here in a hostile environment, I have to accept all the inaccuracies, exaggerations, and allow for the repetitive liberties that will be taken....cuz , hell, no ones gonna take my side....even if I'm right, I'm wrong.

I also see a ton of opinion stated as fact -- when you have no idea.

hmm....ok. looks like were heading to challenge #1.

1. read the manning article. it contradicts you. they made the trade before they even had their face to face with manning. would love it if you would actually source your opinion with some support. perhaps even do some research on it. sorry, i just don't believe you personally. give me a reliable reference and maybe i will start listening or even taking you remotely serious.

I'm not going to give you a reliable source.

I'm going to give you FIVE.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/sport ... 58553.html

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... free-agent

http://tracking.si.com/2012/03/08/repor ... -redskins/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -redskins/

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... 81T2aN5mK0

as I said clearly before, manning said he would not play for the redskins WEEKS before the redskins turned their attention to plan B: trading for rg3.

tell you what, you do what you do best, finagle your own interpretations of peoples' quotes (like manning's in your example, which I DID read and it did nothing to change my original point) and I'll continue to use the FAcTs of the TIMeLIne.

ownership has it's privileges.

3. you are absoultely correct in that snyder is a marketing person....and honestly, he is good at it and as an owner marketing your team is one your bigger jobs/priorities. and anyone intelligent would know he is going to continue marketing the skins regardless

yeah yeah yeah , blah blah blah , no kidding, get to the point.....

Now, the reason I made the comment that I don't believe Snyder is running the FO, is because I believe the FO (MS and BA; NOT Snyder) is drafting/trading for purposes of building a better football team and not selling jerseys -- therefore Snyder had nothing to do with the trade. You may have missed that...

noo......I didn't miss it. I dont believe that. a difference.

Once the FO has made their moves, it is up to the marketing people (Snyder) to spin it whichever way they deem fit. And it appears that is what Snyder is doing -- which I don't see anything wrong with (although I would like RGIII to focus more on the sport).

wow. you know, something just dawned on me. may I ask how old you are? I'm just curious, that's all.

And if I missed the point, you need to articulate it clearer, because that is not a character trait of mine. Perhaps you were missing mine -- because the trade

I can't get into this with you. I mean, I could, but it's exhausting. I'm not gonna call you names or any stuff like that..I won't do that, cuz that's what trolls do (hmmm...there goes THAT stereotype)

I'm just going to say you see things on the surface level and I've graduated from that years ago. I'm probably simply a little older and more experienced than you, that's all. we disagree and leave it at that.

4. I would love to know your expertise in Marketing/Advertising and how much more you know about it than me. Do you have some sort of advanced degree in it? Marketing/advertising was one of my college majors..... one of them because I was told employers don't take the degree seriously.... Please IM me with your background. I would love to know..... and please don't tell me you are one of those guys/girls who spins the condo signs on the side of the road....

ha, they don't have those guys up here in jersey. I see them down south though. anyways, I'll drop it, it's not important, it was stupid for me to play that card anyways. no, I don't have any fancy degree or anything...ehh, nevermind, my fault, shouldn't have brought it up.

4. The "redskins" way -- you are correct; and I HATE it. I hate the ra ra nature of the skins -- but we have a supportive fan base; sorry if you are jealous of it. So I guess you are a jealous troll...

so you hate it the redskin way but I'm jealous of the fan base? don't you see how I could have fun with your own words if I want to? but I won't.

listen, good luck to the redskins this year. I hope they win 10 games. I think it would be great if they finally became a winner.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:08 am

1niksder wrote:
andyjens89 wrote:Any more updates on OTAs or have they concluded?
The last week of OTAs started today.... June 4-7

Minicamp will be from June 11 to June 14

thanks - for the record - what's the difference between OTAs & Minicamp?

thankfully it's June already

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:44 am

SkinsJock wrote:
1niksder wrote:
andyjens89 wrote:Any more updates on OTAs or have they concluded?
The last week of OTAs started today.... June 4-7

Minicamp will be from June 11 to June 14
thanks - for the record - what's the difference between OTAs & Minicamp?

thankfully it's June already

I think the level of allowable contact increased.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:38 pm

Does anyone else just skip over that guy's postings or just me?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:48 pm

mostly, I just glance at it or speed read and confirm that it's the same drivel