Redskins/Cowboys file grievance against NFL

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Wed May 23, 2012 3:58 am

i would be extremely pleased to hear that John Mara's and Stephen Burbank's houses were burned to the frickin' ground (as long as no one were hurt, except maybe some superficial burns on only those 2 [no innocents]). they deserve it.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Wed May 23, 2012 5:55 am

I still say the us fans should file a class action law suit against the NFL and John Mara!

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:34 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:No. It is not a private matter!!!!!! And Yes, it is we that took it in the shorts.

At least I'm assuming you go to at least some games and watch the team on TV and have some merchandise. Where do you think that $18M came from? It isn't Monopoly money. All the fans of the Washington Redskins paid that $18M that the NFL is allowing other teams to spend.

So we, and yes I mean we, gave the Redskins that $18M with the intent to get some entertainment and hopefully make the team better. The NFL broke the trust of our fans group by stealing our money and giving it to other teams.

If we have any lawyers on this site, anyone up for a class action law suit against the NFL; Asking for our #18M back and damages?

I'm still mad about this, but I think it's worth pointing out that no money has been "stolen" from Redskins fans. The $18m has not just been spirited away - the Redskins spent it two years ago, in the uncapped year. Unless Redskins fans are going to make the argument that we all spent extra money on merchandise in the uncapped year in order to facilitate increased free agency activity?

We're going to have to face the fact that the Redskins tried to outsmart the other NFL owners, and got walloped with a big stick. What the Redskins did WAS legal, but was against the "spirit" of the gentleman's club that is the NFL. The punishment isn't legal, but the whole fabric of the CBA isn't really legal. And if Dan Snyder wants to take things further, he risks getting caught up in the same firestorm that would engulf all the other owners.

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:00 am

I think this ruling is one heck of a way to slap two of the biggest monetary contributors in the socialist system known as the NFL. The NFL spreads the wealth of two teams that if the NFL was structured like MLB, could outspend every other team in the sport. I wonder if there can be a congressional investigation into the likes of Roger Goodell and John Mara.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:28 am

Jerry and Danny will beg, borrow and steal to not let the NFL be 'investigated'

This is obviously something that Mara pushed for and the NFL caved

Danny & Jerry will not forget this

thankfully the NFL did not let Mara get his way - he thought that we should lose some draft picks :shock:

thankfully the players and their contracts are also gone

it hurts but we move on and hope that these guys can continue to work their magic

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:03 am

Completely off topic:

Message Board/Chat room/Internet tough guys make me laugh.

That is all.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:05 am

UK Skins Fan wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:No. It is not a private matter!!!!!! And Yes, it is we that took it in the shorts.

At least I'm assuming you go to at least some games and watch the team on TV and have some merchandise. Where do you think that $18M came from? It isn't Monopoly money. All the fans of the Washington Redskins paid that $18M that the NFL is allowing other teams to spend.

So we, and yes I mean we, gave the Redskins that $18M with the intent to get some entertainment and hopefully make the team better. The NFL broke the trust of our fans group by stealing our money and giving it to other teams.

If we have any lawyers on this site, anyone up for a class action law suit against the NFL; Asking for our #18M back and damages?

I'm still mad about this, but I think it's worth pointing out that no money has been "stolen" from Redskins fans. The $18m has not just been spirited away - the Redskins spent it two years ago, in the uncapped year. Unless Redskins fans are going to make the argument that we all spent extra money on merchandise in the uncapped year in order to facilitate increased free agency activity?

We're going to have to face the fact that the Redskins tried to outsmart the other NFL owners, and got walloped with a big stick. What the Redskins did WAS legal, but was against the "spirit" of the gentleman's club that is the NFL. The punishment isn't legal, but the whole fabric of the CBA isn't really legal. And if Dan Snyder wants to take things further, he risks getting caught up in the same firestorm that would engulf all the other owners.

SO why weren't the other dozen or so teams that didn't conduct themselves within the "spirit" of the gentleman's agreement get punished too? There were mant teams that his cap space in the uncapped year just like us and the Cowgirls and then you have the Tampa Bays that gained even more of a competative advantage by not spending anything.

As far as a class action law suit goes, if a old ladie can get millions of dollars from McDonalds because she was an idiot and spilled coffee on herself or smokers that sued the Tobaco industry for their health problem or drunks that sue (insert companies that make alcohol) for ruining their lives can get money, then so can we.

I supported my team finacially. The money that the NFL gave to those other 28 teams came from me, you, and even some Cowgirl fans. I never intended for one cent of my money to ever go to support other teams.

100% a good lawyer could make a case on behalf of the Skins and Girls fans that they were wronged by the NFL and are due some compensation for the fact that the NFL is using OUR money to help make other teams better!

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:07 am

Countertrey wrote:Your snide attempt at adolescent condescension aside, the FACT is, YOU get to suck up and deal... or whine like a baby.

I completely agree with that. What other choice do I as a fan have? On the other hand, what's wrong with vocally complaining about a wrong? Why shouldn't Redskins fans complain loudly to let the NFL, Goodell, Snyder, all the other owners know this is BS and we're not happy with it? WE are their freaking customers.

Go ask Target what happens when people start complaining loudly on the Internet when they've ticked off their customers. Go ask Rush Limbaugh about it.

Countertrey wrote:It is completely a private matter. Notice that there has been no discussion of the documentation that accompanied the ruling... you have no right to it... and unless the league, the union, or the plaintiffs get stupid, you and I will probably never know exactly what the ruling was.

So much for that theory. Somebody already posted the ruling to this message board.

Countertrey wrote:You don't have to like it... but, it's not your business, nor is it mine.

With all due respect, its just a nitpicking point. Like when fans say "we" won or "we" lost a game, some jerk telling them that they don't actually play the game.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:09 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:I never intended for one cent of my money to ever go to support other teams.

100% a good lawyer could make a case on behalf of the Skins and Girls fans that they were wronged by the NFL and are due some compensation for the fact that the NFL is using OUR money to help make other teams better!

Are you familiar with revenue sharing?

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:12 am

die cowboys die wrote:the Redskins and Cowboys must STRIKE as entire organizations and refuse to participate in the NFL until this outrageous injustice is rightfully overturned and that Burbank guy is FIRED. he is obviously either a complete idiot or has no integrity and was either bribed or otherwise coerced into caving to the NFL's outrageous stance. go ahead and let them try and conduct an NFL season with 2 of their most popular teams missing.

I hate to defend him, but I don't think Burbank is really the issue. IMO he probably actually ruled correctly that the current rules meant that the Redskins couldn't take this to arbitration but could only be settled in an actual lawsuit.

The f-d up part of that ruling is that the NFL wasn't playing by the rules with the salary cap penalty. Then they hide behind the rules by not allowing it to be settled in arbitration. Massively hypocritical and kind of a catch-22.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:13 am

emoses14 wrote:Completely off topic:

Message Board/Chat room/Internet tough guys make me laugh.

That is all.

They call that "internet muscles". Close relative to "liquid courage".

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:16 am

BTW Florio has a source suggesting the fight might not actually be over:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... t-be-over/

Moreover, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the fight may not be over. Technically, that wouldn’t be inconsistent with Burbank’s decision, because he plainly stated at the end of his 12-page ruling that the teams “retain whatever remedies they may have against [the NFL] under contract and agency law.”

So until the Redskins or Cowboys say it’s completely over, it’s not completely over. And until it’s completely over, there’s a chance one or both teams will sue the NFL under theories like breach of contract and/or breach of fiduciary duty.

In other words, don’t put your popcorn away just yet.

I actually don't think the Redskins should take this all the way. However, filing a lawsuit or walking it right up to the brink might be the only way to force the NFL's hand. They DO NOT want this issue to go to court.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:32 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:I still say the us fans should file a class action law suit against the NFL and John Mara!

I doubt you have any legal standing... but knock yourself out.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:36 am

riggofan wrote:
die cowboys die wrote:the Redskins and Cowboys must STRIKE as entire organizations and refuse to participate in the NFL until this outrageous injustice is rightfully overturned and that Burbank guy is FIRED. he is obviously either a complete idiot or has no integrity and was either bribed or otherwise coerced into caving to the NFL's outrageous stance. go ahead and let them try and conduct an NFL season with 2 of their most popular teams missing.

I hate to defend him, but I don't think Burbank is really the issue. IMO he probably actually ruled correctly that the current rules meant that the Redskins couldn't take this to arbitration but could only be settled in an actual lawsuit.

The up part of that ruling is that the NFL wasn't playing by the rules with the salary cap penalty. Then they hide behind the rules by not allowing it to be settled in arbitration. Massively hypocritical and kind of a catch-22.

That is pretty much dead on... just a corrupt shell game.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:40 am

andyjens89 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:I never intended for one cent of my money to ever go to support other teams.

100% a good lawyer could make a case on behalf of the Skins and Girls fans that they were wronged by the NFL and are due some compensation for the fact that the NFL is using OUR money to help make other teams better!

Are you familiar with revenue sharing?

I truly loathe and despise the use of the word "this" used by users of message boards to indicate their agreement with the words of the previous poster. But, on this occasion, and this once only, until the next time, I say this to indicate the nodding of my head to the words of andyjens89:

this.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:41 am

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:48 am

Countertrey wrote:
riggofan wrote:
die cowboys die wrote:the Redskins and Cowboys must STRIKE as entire organizations and refuse to participate in the NFL until this outrageous injustice is rightfully overturned and that Burbank guy is FIRED. he is obviously either a complete idiot or has no integrity and was either bribed or otherwise coerced into caving to the NFL's outrageous stance. go ahead and let them try and conduct an NFL season with 2 of their most popular teams missing.

I hate to defend him, but I don't think Burbank is really the issue. IMO he probably actually ruled correctly that the current rules meant that the Redskins couldn't take this to arbitration but could only be settled in an actual lawsuit.

The up part of that ruling is that the NFL wasn't playing by the rules with the salary cap penalty. Then they hide behind the rules by not allowing it to be settled in arbitration. Massively hypocritical and kind of a catch-22.
That is pretty much dead on... just a corrupt shell game.

+2

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:53 am

The fact is that anybody with a spare 10 million dollars and some free time on their hands could muster the necessary legal forces to challenge the whole artificial legal construct that is the NFL and its collective bargaining agreement. But I would be staggered if Dan Snyder is that man, because to do so would expose him and every other owner as guilty of collusion in almost every other aspect of the financial running of the league.

The Danny has been shafted, but he's been shafted by the same organisations and devices which, in almost every other aspect, work to his benefit as a businessman. It's a marriage of convenience which, on this occasion, has gone through a rough spell. But that will pass, leaving everybody to tolerate each other's existence again, with no thought of killing each other, or the goose that continues to lay golden eggs for them all.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:03 pm

But now we hear that the NFLPA is filing a collusion suit against the NFL and owners for restricting player salaries during the uncapped year. Wow.

Presumably, the Redskins and Cowboys will not be named in the suit? Otherwise, the irony would be huge - the NFLPA signing off on the cap penalties was probably the best card that the owners had in their hand. I can't believe that the NFLPA would now include the Redskins and Cowboys in any suit.

But I am already preparing to be surprised.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:09 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:But now we hear that the NFLPA is filing a collusion suit against the NFL and owners for restricting player salaries during the uncapped year. Wow.

Do you have a link for this? I don't see how they can sue now after agreeing to the cap penalties; that pretty much said they were ok with the collusion as long as the players got the money from somewhere. They should have said "up yours" to the cap penalties, and sued then, not now. :roll:

Edit: I see the link now in ATL.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:19 pm

Deadskins wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:But now we hear that the NFLPA is filing a collusion suit against the NFL and owners for restricting player salaries during the uncapped year. Wow.

Do you have a link for this? I don't see how they can sue now after agreeing to the cap penalties; that pretty much said they were ok with the collusion as long as the players got the money from somewhere. They should have said "up yours" to the cap penalties, and sued then, not now.

Edit: I see the link now in ATL.

Sounds like the NFLPA is trying to save face!

I don't personally don't see why their agreeing to the salary cap penalty would limit their ability to sue for collusion. All the salary cap penalty did was PROVE that the NFL was colluding against players in the uncapped year.

I'm going to have to check out the link about the NFLPA, but all I can say is WOW. If this is true, Goodell, the NFL and Mara in particular really screwed up with this cap penalty WAAAAAY beyond just ticking off Redskins and Cowboys fans. This is HUGE.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:47 pm

andyjens89 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:I never intended for one cent of my money to ever go to support other teams.

100% a good lawyer could make a case on behalf of the Skins and Girls fans that they were wronged by the NFL and are due some compensation for the fact that the NFL is using OUR money to help make other teams better!

Are you familiar with revenue sharing?

Yes I am. So if I want to take that into account the Skins and Cowgirls fans provided more money to the NFL than other fans! When a contribute my money to the NFL entertainment industry I expect that my team will be able to compete fairly with other teams. I understand that some of my money goes to Jacksonville and Tampa to line their owners pockets, but I expect the Skins to get their fare share of money to spend on improving my entertainment experience.

The NFL broke that trust with the Skins and Cowboys fans. They stole money from us... Point blank!

the poster · Post by **the poster** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:59 pm

Everyone has a POV. That's why I'm so great - I'm not a fan nor affiliated to any one football team. I don't have an agenda like every other fan does.

Those that wish John mara's house be burnt down (get a grip, this is football NOT life) only care to look at it through the poor, taken-advanteged-of eyes of those loveable innocent washington redskins.

you have this image in your mind that John Mara is sitting at his desk rubbing his hands together with a seedy smile wondering how he can screw with another NFL team. Do you know how stupid that logic is??

I can assure you....as angry as you are with Mara (as if HE's the one the decided not to follow the directions given to him by all the nfl owners and not Snyder), Mara is just as angry at the Redskins and Cowboys.

I live near the NY market. Mara was on the radio recently. He's not "satisfied" or "happy" this has happened. He's not sitting there in his office thinking "hahahahahaha I got one on the Redskins, I have screwed them....hahahahahahahaha"

No.

Try the opposite.

He is PISSED OFF that Washington got away as easily they did. Simply put - you think you're mad??? He's MADDER than you!

One particular quote stands out and I'm paraphrasing:
"I understand how the fans of the game particularly those teams are upset because this impacts their team. The reality is fans are not privy to the information we have, they are not in league wide meetings, and they know as much as [Shefter] can figure out for them. As angry as those fans are, most of the ownership base here is infuriated with this situation. When you have trusted people that you do business with, look you in the eye, and lie to your face, it not only our business but relationships are broken. I know for a fact that friendships have been ruined over this and it could have, no exuse me, should have been avoided by those two teams."

SouthLondonRedskin · Post by **SouthLondonRedskin** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:18 pm

Hmmmm, smells in here all of a sudden....

Anyone else getting that....???

Strange, it just seems to come and go every so often....

:hmm:

.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Mara said:

... most of the ownership base here is infuriated with this situation.

Here means on the NFL Management Council Executive Committee.

Most means 5 or more.

DarthMonk wrote:I think I found out the names of the 8 men that are actually on the NFL Management Council Executive Committee which punished us and the Cowboys.

1 John Mara, Giants (Chairman)
2 Mike Brown, Bengals
3 Clark Hunt, Chiefs
4 Jerry Jones, Cowboys LINK
5 Robert Kraft, Patriots
6 Mark Murphy, Packers (former player union rep?)
7 Art Rooney, Steelers
8 Dean Spanos, Chargers

Note that the oldest male money in the league (Good Old Boys) is, Brown, Hunt, Mara, and Rooney money. All 4 are on this committee. That's half of 'em. Kraft is also old money. Jones (and Snyder) are punks. Murphy represents but does not own. Spanos had an original stake in the Chargers ... I think.

DarthMonk