Redskins/Cowboys file grievance against NFL

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:11 am

1niksder wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Any news on the arbitration yet? Has a date even been set? This guy is a college professor, so I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. Will they wait until summer break to meet?

Nope, Not yet, probably, not sure but hope it doesn't take that long

It is already too late to help this year. I doubt they will give back all the money but I expect some. Best case, enough to resign Fletcher and then have lots of cap space for next year.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:27 am

cleg wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Any news on the arbitration yet? Has a date even been set? This guy is a college professor, so I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. Will they wait until summer break to meet?

Nope, Not yet, probably, not sure but hope it doesn't take that long
It is already too late to help this year. I doubt they will give back all the money but I expect some.

I don't see how they could not give back all the money. The NFL doesn't really have a leg to stand on, legally speaking. And I also don't agree that it's too late to help this year. Obviously we can't go back and sign the players already off the board, but we can still add a bunch of cap cuts post-June. Missing the early players, though, is one of the reasons I think we may get some kind of added compensation from the arbitrator.

rick301 · Post by **rick301** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:07 am

The longer this drags out, the more the Skins will be impacted by not being able to sign the FAs they are pursuing.

We have the #2 draft pick - but how will this affect our ability to sign RG3 or Luck (with a commensurate contract for a #2 pick), or any of our other draft picks. Granted, the other draft picks will command much lower contracts.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:29 am

rick301 wrote:The longer this drags out, the more the Skins will be impacted by not being able to sign the FAs they are pursuing.

We have the #2 draft pick - but how will this affect our ability to sign RG3 or Luck (with a commensurate contract for a #2 pick), or any of our other draft picks.
Granted, the other draft picks will command much lower contracts.

maybe some here should brush up on things ...... just a little

rick301 · Post by **rick301** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:42 pm

Per PFT, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/30/team-by-team-cap-room-as-of-march-30/ available CAP space as of March 30 for our division is:

Eagles: $16.2 million

Redskins: $7.6 million

Giants: $3.4 million

Cowboys: $2.1 million

We have many needs: DB (especially Safety), ILB, OL to name a few, but not a whole lot of CAP space. We still need to sign Fletcher. I think on average a slate of draft picks can count about $5M - $7M against CAP space - and more if you have a #1 or #2 pick. The above number for the Skins doesn't include Kedric Golston or James Lee contract numbers which probably are not too much.

I find it interesting that the Giants are at $3.4M in CAP space. Maybe that is the real reason Mara went after the Skins.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:43 pm

rick301 wrote:The longer this drags out, the more the Skins will be impacted by not being able to sign the FAs they are pursuing.

We have the #2 draft pick - but how will this affect our ability to sign RG3 or Luck (with a commensurate contract for a #2 pick), or any of our other draft picks. Granted, the other draft picks will command much lower contracts.

You do know that the new CBA includes a rookie wage scale, right?

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:24 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Or maybe Godahell, actually convinced Mara that punishing all three teams in his division would be just too obvious!

+1

And, Roger GoDaHell is the best nickname I've heard on him.

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:58 pm

Is there a deadline for the decision? Probably a day after Fletcher get signed by the fecals... stupid goDahell

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:15 pm

rick301 wrote:Per PFT, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/30/team-by-team-cap-room-as-of-march-30/ available CAP space as of March 30 for our division is:

Eagles: $16.2 million

Redskins: $7.6 million

Giants: $3.4 million

Cowboys: $2.1 million

We have many needs: DB (especially Safety), ILB, OL to name a few, but not a whole lot of CAP space. We still need to sign Fletcher. I think on average a slate of draft picks can count about $5M - $7M against CAP space - and more if you have a #1 or #2 pick. The above number for the Skins doesn't include Kedric Golston or James Lee contract numbers which probably are not too much.

I find it interesting that the Giants are at $3.4M in CAP space. Maybe that is the real reason Mara went after the Skins.

Funny how the team that has splurged the most, now has the greatest amount of cap room. If anything, the Redskins used the uncapped year to get rid of Haynesworth--yet we're punished. Got it.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:03 pm

The Hogster wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Or maybe Godahell, actually convinced Mara that punishing all three teams in his division would be just too obvious!

+1

And, Roger GoDaHell is the best nickname I've heard on him.

Thanks!

It is how I feel about him and it fits.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:18 am

cleg wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Any news on the arbitration yet? Has a date even been set? This guy is a college professor, so I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. Will they wait until summer break to meet?

Nope, Not yet, probably, not sure but hope it doesn't take that long
It is already too late to help this year. I doubt they will give back all the money but I expect some. Best case, enough to resign Fletcher and then have lots of cap space for next year.

Too late? No way! You said it yourself, that money would let us re-sign Fletcher on day one. There's no arguing though that the damage has been done for this season.

I completely disagree about the league restoring "part of the cap space" or whatever. That might have been a possibility if the matter was just handled by some league committee or whatever. I don't see how that happens in arbitration unless you can show me some way the arbitrator can say the league was "partially right".

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:29 am

riggofan wrote:
cleg wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Any news on the arbitration yet? Has a date even been set? This guy is a college professor, so I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. Will they wait until summer break to meet?

Nope, Not yet, probably, not sure but hope it doesn't take that long
It is already too late to help this year. I doubt they will give back all the money but I expect some. Best case, enough to resign Fletcher and then have lots of cap space for next year.

Too late? No way! You said it yourself, that money would let us re-sign Fletcher on day one. There's no arguing though that the damage has been done for this season.

I completely disagree about the league restoring "part of the cap space" or whatever. That might have been a possibility if the matter was just handled by some league committee or whatever. I don't see how that happens in arbitration unless you can show me some way the arbitrator can say the league was "partially right".

I am just thinking that the arbitrator will try to reach a compromise so that the league saves face. IMO, the team should get the full amount back plus the 33rd pick in the draft and the Pukes should get the 34th.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:33 am

cleg wrote:
riggofan wrote:
cleg wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Any news on the arbitration yet? Has a date even been set? This guy is a college professor, so I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. Will they wait until summer break to meet?

Nope, Not yet, probably, not sure but hope it doesn't take that long
It is already too late to help this year. I doubt they will give back all the money but I expect some. Best case, enough to resign Fletcher and then have lots of cap space for next year.

Too late? No way! You said it yourself, that money would let us re-sign Fletcher on day one. There's no arguing though that the damage has been done for this season.

I completely disagree about the league restoring "part of the cap space" or whatever. That might have been a possibility if the matter was just handled by some league committee or whatever. I don't see how that happens in arbitration unless you can show me some way the arbitrator can say the league was "partially right".
I am just thinking that the arbitrator will try to reach a compromise so that the league saves face. IMO, the team should get the full amount back plus the 33rd pick in the draft and the Pukes should get the 34th.

It isn't the arbitrator's job to help the league save face. He's supposed to weigh the case on it's merits, and the NFL doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:23 pm

cleg wrote:
riggofan wrote:
cleg wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Any news on the arbitration yet? Has a date even been set? This guy is a college professor, so I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. Will they wait until summer break to meet?

Nope, Not yet, probably, not sure but hope it doesn't take that long
It is already too late to help this year. I doubt they will give back all the money but I expect some. Best case, enough to resign Fletcher and then have lots of cap space for next year.

Too late? No way! You said it yourself, that money would let us re-sign Fletcher on day one. There's no arguing though that the damage has been done for this season.

I completely disagree about the league restoring "part of the cap space" or whatever. That might have been a possibility if the matter was just handled by some league committee or whatever. I don't see how that happens in arbitration unless you can show me some way the arbitrator can say the league was "partially right".
I am just thinking that the arbitrator will try to reach a compromise so that the league saves face. IMO, the team should get the full amount back plus the 33rd pick in the draft and the Pukes should get the 34th.

The arbitrator isn't responsible for helping the league save face. He is responsible to identify if there has been a wrong, and then to correct it, as best he can. If he identifies that the Redskins and Cowboys have been punished, and therefore, injured without justification, he must take steps to address and correct the injury. PERIOD.

If he identifies that there was malice, he can also impose punitive measures to the league... That would be the best scenario... but it's also where the league is least vulnerable.

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:28 pm

Yes, but I don't trust the arbitrator. Goodell seems to have infinate power and influence.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:33 pm

cleg wrote:Yes, but I don't trust the arbitrator. Goodell seems to have infinate power and influence.

If the arbitor can't be trusted to funciton independently, then, shame on Snyder and Jones... as the best time to address that was when he was contracted.

Chin up... people who do that work trade in their reputations for honesty and fairness. If the teams can't prove their cases... then there may be more to the story than we know.

The thing is, this is not going to be done in public. They are private hearings... and don't expect much of what happens there to be made public.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:52 pm

Countertrey wrote:
cleg wrote:Yes, but I don't trust the arbitrator. Goodell seems to have infinate power and influence.

If the arbitor can't be trusted to funciton independently, then, shame on Snyder and Jones... as the best time to address that was when he was contracted.

Chin up... people who do that work trade in their reputations for honesty and fairness. If the teams can't prove their cases... then there may be more to the story than we know.

The thing is, this is not going to be done in public. They are private hearings... and don't expect much of what happens there to be made public.

The arbitrator for matters involving the NFL is generally determined by the CBA. I don't know Burbank. But, he's a colleague of Andrew Brandt--who is definitely not an NFL puppet. Roger Kaplan has also been fair, and I'd expect Burbank to be the same.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:02 pm

The Hogster wrote:The arbitrator for matters involving the NFL is generally determined by the CBA. I don't know Burbank. But, he's a colleague of Andrew Brandt--who is definitely not an NFL puppet. Roger Kaplan has also been fair, and I'd expect Burbank to be the same.

Is it unusual that we still don't have a date set for arbitration? Seems like this is kind of a time sensitive issue.

rick301 · Post by **rick301** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:32 pm

Maybe he has already decided - but is trying to work out a proper settlement/compensations.

I can dream can't I?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:14 pm

riggofan wrote:
The Hogster wrote:The arbitrator for matters involving the NFL is generally determined by the CBA. I don't know Burbank. But, he's a colleague of Andrew Brandt--who is definitely not an NFL puppet. Roger Kaplan has also been fair, and I'd expect Burbank to be the same.

Is it unusual that we still don't have a date set for arbitration? Seems like this is kind of a time sensitive issue.

It's entirely likely that we won't hear anything until it's all done.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:14 am

rick301 wrote:Maybe he has already decided - but is trying to work out a proper settlement/compensations.

I can dream can't I?

I think you're counting on too much. We may well lose. He could just say with both sides signing off it's a deal. Don't set yourself up for disappointment.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:29 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:He could just say with both sides signing off it's a deal.

When did both sides sign off?

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:47 am

Just read somewhere this morning that arbitration may not happen until the summer. Damage done. Well done, Mara.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:56 am

Deadskins wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:He could just say with both sides signing off it's a deal.

When did both sides sign off?

You know what I'm referring to. Why don't you say what you disagree with instead of saying duh, what do you mean?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:58 am

riggofan wrote:Just read somewhere this morning that arbitration may not happen until the summer. Damage done. Well done, Mara.

This, of course, wouldn't be of any help THIS year... but it could prove a huge benefit NEXT year, especially if the arbitor finds for the Redskins AND assigns damages.

OTOH, he could leave all as it is, and it makes no difference at all...