Still No OL Help... Why?

[Red_One43]

I thought that this might be interesting.
How did Shanny, protege, Gary Kubiak, build his OL at Houston?

Kubiak's O line draft Choices:

2006 draft - 3/66 (from New Orleans) Eric Winston Offensive tackle Miami (FL)

2007 - 5/163 (from New Orleans) Brandon Frye Offensive tackle Virginia Tech
6/183 Kasey Studdard Offensive guard Texas

2008 -1/26 (from Baltimore) Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech

2009 - 3/77 Antoine Caldwell Center Alabama

2010 - 6/187 Shelley Smith Offensive guard Colorado State

2011- 7/214 Derek Newton Offensive tackle Arkansas State

Became Starters

Eric Winston becomes a starter in 2007

Duane Brown starts as a rookie 2008

Kasey Studdard starter 2009

(Chris Meyers - C - was drafted in the 6th round in 2005 became a starter in 2007)

Mike Brisiel UDFA starter in 2008

Chris White UDFA replaces Brisiel in 2009 during the season. Injury to Brisiel?

Wade Smith drafted by Miami 2003 3rd round 78th pick. Replaces Studdard in 2010 after signing as a free agent. Texans are his 4th team

http://www.nfl.com/player/wadesmith/2505633/profile

Texans 2011 Starters

Myers - 6th round 2005; Starter 2007
Smith - Free Agent 2010(No Big Splash here); Starter 2010
Brisiel - UDFA 2007; Starter 2008
Winston - 3rd round 2006; Starter 2007
Brown - 1st round 2008; Starter 2008 .

Four of the five have started together since 2008.


We know the performance of the Texans ZBS line. Two of them were coveted in FA this year. As you can see, Kubiak built his line like Shanny is doing. It also took time time.

The question for Shanny is do you have the right guys? Kubiak obviously did.


Redskins 2011 Starters

Williams is looks like he is progressing at least until the Dope issue
Brown - health issues the concern -looked like a good trade at the time
Monty - Doubt he will be come a Chris Meyers, but Lock Out and Cap issues didn't help Shanny here.
Kory - Was progressing very well
Chester - Shanny says that he is progressing.

It takes time to build a ZBS line through the draft

Definitely Shanny will be drafting some O linemen in the draft, but again, it doesn't necessarily mean the 3rd round pick. It depends on the BPA in round three.

[RG3 Fan]

In the NFC EAST the offensive line better be good or the QB is going to look very bad or will get hurt. Hopefully, the current OL will do the job and we can get some good back ups in the draft.

[Countertrey]

In the NFC EAST the offensive line better be good or the QB is going to look very bad or will get hurt. Hopefully, the current OL will do the job and we can get some good back ups in the draft.

Again, how much time did Rex the statue lose to injury last year? The line progressed nicely once they got past the injury bug. Look, I'd love to have 5 blue chip linemen, and back-ups who would start on most teams, but that is simply not reality.

RG3 will get plenty of attention early. He will only need to burn teams a couple of times before they step back to a contain first philosophy... that's almost like adding an extra blocker.

There will be steps to address the O-line in the draft... and probably after June 1, when cap cuts take place. I don't think there's any need for anxierty here.

[skinsfan#33]

Again, how much time did Rex the statue lose to injury last year? The line progressed nicely once they got past the injury bug. Look, I'd love to have 5 blue chip linemen, and back-ups who would start on most teams, but that is simply not .

Look I would like to have a blue chipper at 2 or 3 spots with solid guys st the other 2 or 3 spots! We have maybe one blue chipper (and he is one toke a way from being gone for a year), 2 or 3 solid guys (one had his knee rooted to sheds near mid season and probably won't be ready on opening day), and our last guy has a bad hip that will never be better'

I have more faith in the backups that started at the end of the than I do in some of our starters.

Exactly when did we get over the injury bug last season? Monty and Chester were the only starters starting at the end of the season.

Yes, the QB and WRs did contribute to some the qb hits but you can't expect the horrid performance our ol put out last year wrt qb hits to improve dramatically even with RG3 and one new starting WR (who isn't much better than one of the guys that we had starting!)

[KazooSkinsFan]

I have more faith in the backups that started at the end of the than I do in some of our starters

I think that's one reason we haven't signed anyone yet, we had some decent looks at the end of last year. I think the plan is to look at the guys we have, see how Jamaal looks, see if we can get anyone we like in the draft and look at the waiver wire later. If we win the cap case, maybe we get a little more aggressive with signing someone, but obviously not a blue chipper.

I don't think this year it's a case of not caring about the line, I think it's that the guys they looked at for the money it took they didn't see them as a sufficient upgrade.

[Red_One43]

Skinsfan 33, I can say that I am in agreement with you that the line needs upgrading. The reality is that upgrading would be by the combination of development and continuity (looks like the whole line is back) , getting healthy (Brown and Kory must get healthy) and by depth (Are Hurt and Smith the real deals - Polumbus looked better than a unhealthy Brown). We will most likely pick up a vet tackle like last year hopefully better than Locklear. We will draft some young 'uns but it is a slim chance that one of those guys will be a starter as a rookie unless injuries force the situation. We hopefully will find some more Willie Smiths in the UDFA market, but again, highly unlikely a Day 1 starter. We might have to get a stop gap vet if Kory is not ready.

That looks like the picture for now given the cap situation. No blue chippers are going to added.

Now, here is where I disagree with you wholeheartledly. Last year's O line was not doom and gloom last year. We moved the ball, but we settled for FGs. You focus on "horrid" QB hits? How about "horrid" QB turnovers. Go game by game and you will see that our O line was not Doom and Gloom. Check out the stats in the Arizona game (455 total offensive yds) - why did we only have 22 points in that game and the D had to save it - it wasn't the O line.

About our O:

Timing O - Yes, better QB play with an ability to extend plays reduces sacks and hits. Also recievers getting open. Also having a deep threat.
Running threat QB - Does change your rush tactics - Detmer speaks to this on a post in RG3 2 DC thread
Continuity - does produce better line play
Deep threat opens up the run game. (No more 9 in the box, Philly! C'mon, Skins, you don't think teams stacking the box had something to do with the poor run game of the O line early in the season? How did we rattle off consecutive individual 100 yard games later in the season if the line was so bad?)

Our line was average last year. They need to get better this year, BUT it was not the doom and gloom that you are making it out to be. Check out the game film and how the defenders played us in the beginnning of the season. Once again, compare how our line is being built with the teams across the NFL and you will see that Shanny is doing it the way the majority of teams do it. I posted a thread last summer in "General Manager Office about "Trends Found in Play-off team's Offensive Lines."

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 891#539891

[Countertrey]

Absolutely. The gloom and doom about the line is simply blown beyond reasonable proportion. Could it be better? That's a no brainer. Is it good enough to serve? Based on the end of last season, yeah. It is.

[rskin72]

While i think our oline needs to add depth, i dont think that the oline was brutal last season. Considering injuries to the line (including ey) and the fact that our QB's were lacking in a lot of areas including mobility and accuracy. Also, as others have mentioned, i am sure plans for oline additions have taken a bit of a back seat thanks to Mara's reindeer game ruling.

I look for some oline additions during the draft.....maybe if our $$$ situation gets resolved soon, and in our favor, we will add some fa's.

[andyjens89]

The offensive line wasn't as bad as people think, in my opinion.

Williams - Looked great at times, but still has a LOT of learning and growing to do. Missing 4 games due to a suspension doesn't help either.

Lichtensteiger - Out for the year. Looked decent.

Montgomery - Had to play at guard for a couple of games because of injury.

Chester - The only starter to play all 16 games at one position.

Brown - Still adjusting to the right side and not quite healed from hip surgery. I think he will be a little more healthy and able this year.

Backups:

Smith - Looked pretty good for an undrafted rookie.

Hurt - Wasn't terrible as far as I remember. 7th round rookie.

Also, they were allowing Helu and Royster to bust out for 100 yard games pretty consistently.

You could also blame receivers not being open for some of the problems we had with sacks too. It's not always the pass rush, but the coverage that gets you a sack.

Once you get a quarterback in there who can make plays and read the defense you will fix a lot of problems.

[The Hogster]

The offensive line wasn't as bad as people think, in my opinion.

Williams - Looked great at times, but still has a LOT of learning and growing to do. Missing 4 games due to a suspension doesn't help either.

Lichtensteiger - Out for the year. Looked decent.

Montgomery - Had to play at guard for a couple of games because of injury.

Chester - The only starter to play all 16 games at one position.

Brown - Still adjusting to the right side and not quite healed from hip surgery. I think he will be a little more healthy and able this year.

Backups:

Smith - Looked pretty good for an undrafted rookie.

Hurt - Wasn't terrible as far as I remember. 7th round rookie.

Also, they were allowing Helu and Royster to bust out for 100 yard games pretty consistently.

You could also blame receivers not being open for some of the problems we had with sacks too. It's not always the pass rush, but the coverage that gets you a sack.

Once you get a quarterback in there who can make plays and read the defense you will fix a lot of problems.

The line wasn't as bad as it seemed, but we have to address it. Lichtensteiger is already undersized at guard. He's 290lbs. Now coming off of two torn knee ligaments, I don't think we can expect him to be able to play at his former level consistently. We need a LG.

RT - I think Brown will be better this year, as he'll be more healthy. But we need players who we believe are capable of starting.

I'd think we are looking at RT, & OG with 1 or more of our picks in rounds 3-4.

Mitchell Schwartz - Cal
Bobbie Massie - Ole Miss
Zebrie Sanders - FLA State

May be options.

I think Montgomery is one of the better Centers in the game. Top 15. Williams if he can mature is a very good LT. Chester is adequate. We need that depth at OG and T though.

[1niksder]

Casey Rabach wants to play again, but he’s not well enough to pass a Redskins physical.

[skinsfan#33]

Now, here is where I disagree with you wholeheartledly. Last year's O line was not doom and gloom last year. We moved the ball, but we settled for FGs. You focus on "horrid" QB hits? How about "horrid" QB turnovers. Go game by game and you will see that our O line was not Doom and Gloom. Check out the stats in the Arizona game (455 total offensive yds) - why did we only have 22 points in that game and the D had to save it - it wasn't the O line.

About our O:

Timing O - Yes, better QB play with an ability to extend plays reduces sacks and hits. Also recievers getting open. Also having a deep threat.
Running threat QB - Does change your rush tactics - Detmer speaks to this on a post in RG3 2 DC thread
Continuity - does produce better o line play.

Look I wasn't painting doom and gloom, I was just trying to keep things real.

Other than QB, OL was our biggest need for improvement during the off season. Our WRs could have gotten the job done with a better QB that had more time to throw. We slightly improved the wr core, but we could have dramatically improved the OL and didn't.

So hopefully more continuity, a draft pick, or a cast off June 1 cut will improve the ol play. But don't expect a rookie QB to take less sacks than Rex, because he won't.

[Red_One43]

Now, here is where I disagree with you wholeheartledly. Last year's O line was not doom and gloom last year. We moved the ball, but we settled for FGs. You focus on "horrid" QB hits? How about "horrid" QB turnovers. Go game by game and you will see that our O line was not Doom and Gloom. Check out the stats in the Arizona game (455 total offensive yds) - why did we only have 22 points in that game and the D had to save it - it wasn't the O line.

About our O:

Timing O - Yes, better QB play with an ability to extend plays reduces sacks and hits. Also recievers getting open. Also having a deep threat.
Running threat QB - Does change your rush tactics - Detmer speaks to this on a post in RG3 2 DC thread
Continuity - does produce better o line play.

Look I wasn't painting doom and gloom, I was just trying to keep things real.

Other than QB, OL was our biggest need for improvement during the off season. Our WRs could have gotten the job done with a better QB that had more time to throw. We slightly improved the wr core, but we could have dramatically improved the OL and didn't.

So hopefully more continuity, a draft pick, or a cast off June 1 cut will improve the ol play.

Thank you for the clarification. I definitely get what you are saying.

But don't expect a rookie QB to take less sacks than Rex, because he won't.

I get what you are saying here about mobile QBs not necessaily reducing the number of times he is sacked. Check out the link.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

Note where the Packers are - I like to compare RGIII to the present day Aaron Rodgers. They are about the same size and it is said that Aaron does it better than anyone in deciding when to run and when to pass.

[Mississippiskinsfan2]

Now, here is where I disagree with you wholeheartledly. Last year's O line was not doom and gloom last year. We moved the ball, but we settled for FGs. You focus on "horrid" QB hits? How about "horrid" QB turnovers. Go game by game and you will see that our O line was not Doom and Gloom. Check out the stats in the Arizona game (455 total offensive yds) - why did we only have 22 points in that game and the D had to save it - it wasn't the O line.

About our O:

Timing O - Yes, better QB play with an ability to extend plays reduces sacks and hits. Also recievers getting open. Also having a deep threat.
Running threat QB - Does change your rush tactics - Detmer speaks to this on a post in RG3 2 DC thread
Continuity - does produce better o line play.

Look I wasn't painting doom and gloom, I was just trying to keep things real.

Other than QB, OL was our biggest need for improvement during the off season. Our WRs could have gotten the job done with a better QB that had more time to throw. We slightly improved the wr core, but we could have dramatically improved the OL and didn't.

So hopefully more continuity, a draft pick, or a cast off June 1 cut will improve the ol play.

Thank you for the clarification. I definitely get what you are saying.

But don't expect a rookie QB to take less sacks than Rex, because he won't.

I get what you are saying here about mobile QBs not necessaily reducing the number of times he is sacked. Check out the link.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

Note where the Packers are - I like to compare RGIII to the present day Aaron Rodgers. They are about the same size and it is said that Aaron does it better than anyone in deciding when to run and when to pass.

Pass Attempts per Game:
Redskins-36.9
Saints-42.7
Packers-35.1
Rams-34.3
Bills-36.1

QB Sacked per Game
Redskins-2.5
Saints-1.6
Packers-2.6
Rams-3.4
Bills-1.4

QB Sacked per Attempts
Redskins-0.0677506
Saints-0.0374707
Packers-0.082621
Rams-0.0991253
Bills-0.0387811

[SkinsJock]

stats can be very misleading

all offenses are helped with better offensive line play

all offenses are helped with better playmaking by the QB


we have added a QB that given time will make just about any line look good

we will add players to the O line - that is a given

things are still developing here

PATIENCE

[Red_One43]

Now, here is where I disagree with you wholeheartledly. Last year's O line was not doom and gloom last year. We moved the ball, but we settled for FGs. You focus on "horrid" QB hits? How about "horrid" QB turnovers. Go game by game and you will see that our O line was not Doom and Gloom. Check out the stats in the Arizona game (455 total offensive yds) - why did we only have 22 points in that game and the D had to save it - it wasn't the O line.

About our O:

Timing O - Yes, better QB play with an ability to extend plays reduces sacks and hits. Also recievers getting open. Also having a deep threat.
Running threat QB - Does change your rush tactics - Detmer speaks to this on a post in RG3 2 DC thread
Continuity - does produce better o line play.

Look I wasn't painting doom and gloom, I was just trying to keep things real.

Other than QB, OL was our biggest need for improvement during the off season. Our WRs could have gotten the job done with a better QB that had more time to throw. We slightly improved the wr core, but we could have dramatically improved the OL and didn't.

So hopefully more continuity, a draft pick, or a cast off June 1 cut will improve the ol play.

Thank you for the clarification. I definitely get what you are saying.

But don't expect a rookie QB to take less sacks than Rex, because he won't.

I get what you are saying here about mobile QBs not necessaily reducing the number of times he is sacked. Check out the link.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

Note where the Packers are - I like to compare RGIII to the present day Aaron Rodgers. They are about the same size and it is said that Aaron does it better than anyone in deciding when to run and when to pass.

Pass Attempts per Game:
Redskins-36.9
Saints-42.7
Packers-35.1
Rams-34.3
Bills-36.1

QB Sacked per Game
Redskins-2.5
Saints-1.6
Packers-2.6
Rams-3.4
Bills-1.4

QB Sacked per Attempts
Redskins-0.0677506
Saints-0.0374707
Packers-0.082621
Rams-0.0991253
Bills-0.0387811

Good Stats - sack percentage is a better way to look at sacks and we also have to keep in mind the Beck 10 sacks whichi magnified even more when we remember that the Bills only had 5 sacks coming into the game.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct

[Red_One43]

stats can be very misleading

Very true; however from MSF2's stats, I don't think that anyone can find misleading that the Rams O line was absolutely horrid last year. Now, that is a definitely a doom and gloom O line situation and I am glad that we are nowhere near that situation that they have. I agree with you patience