Football Outsiders ranks RGIII as the best prospect in years

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Football Outsiders ranks RGIII as the best prospect in years

Post by Irn-Bru »

As far back as their stats go, anyway (1998). Full story and an explanation of their method at the link. (The tables don't copy/paste well.)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-dr ... ecast-2012

Lewin Career Forecast 2012

by Aaron Schatz

Six years ago, Football Outsiders unveiled the college quarterback projection system known as the Lewin Career Forecast. Originally, the LCF projected the success of first- and second-round quarterbacks using just college games started and college completion percentage. Going back -- including when looking at quarterbacks from the years before the data set used to create it -- it had a strong record. After 2006, the record was not so strong. So last year, we debuted an updated version of the forecast, LCF v2.0.

The new version of the Lewin Career Forecast is built to apply only to quarterbacks chosen in the first three rounds of the draft. After that, quarterback success and failure becomes too difficult to predict. Part of the concept of the system is that scouts will do a good enough job identifying "system quarterbacks" so that those quarterbacks whose college stats are much better than their pro potential will naturally fall to the third day of the draft.

There are seven variables involved in LCF v2.0:

Career college games started, with a minimum of 20 and a maximum of 48.

Career completion rate; however, this is now a logrithmic variable. As a quarterback's completion percentage goes down, the penalty for low completion percentage gets gradually larger. As a result, the bonus for exceedingly accurate quarterbacks such as Tim Couch and Brian Brohm is smaller than the penalty for inaccurate quarterbacks such as Kyle Boller and Tarvaris Jackson.

Difference between the quarterback's BMI and 28.0. This creates a small penalty for quarterbacks who don't exactly conform to the "ideal quarterback size."

For quarterbacks who come out as seniors, the difference in NCAA passer rating between their junior and senior seasons. (For quarterbacks who come out as juniors or redshirt sophomores, this variable is always 5.0, which is the average increase for the seniors in our data set.)

A binary variable that penalizes quarterbacks who don't play for a team in a BCS-qualifying conference.

Run-pass ratio in the quarterback's final college season, with a maximum of 0.5.

Total rushing yards in the quarterback's final college season, with a minimum of 0 and a maximum of 600.

These last two variables work together to penalize both quarterbacks who scramble too often and quarterbacks who take a lot of sacks (since sacks are negative runs in college), while pocket quarterbacks who are successful when they do run get a bonus.

The biggest question about LCF continues to be the importance of games started. This is still the most important variable in the equation. As I explained in last year's article, any quarterback projection system based on past performance is going to highly value collegiate games started. From 1990 to 2005, it was far and away the most important variable in determining the success of highly-drafted quarterbacks. However, there are questions about whether the rise of the spread offense is leading to number of quarterbacks who come into the NFL with a lot of collegiate experience yet still unprepared for the NFL-style game. Other quarterbacks have come into the NFL with less experience and done very well. The best example of this would be Cam Newton, who seems like the kind of guy who is built to break this system. He started only one year of Division I ball and looked like a huge risk, then put together one of the best rookie quarterback seasons in NFL history. Aaron Rodgers is another player who was underrated by the system; given the success of Newton and Rodgers, perhaps we need to consider adding junior college experience to the variable for collegiate games started.

Newton demonstrates where the system can go wrong, while Andy Dalton demonstrates where the system can go right. Dalton was the highest-rated prospect in last year's draft according to LCF and while his numbers (and his potential) don't match Newton's, his rookie performance surprised a number of observers who felt his arm wasn't strong enough to be a good NFL starting quarterback.

It's important to understand that LCF is meant to be a tool used alongside the scouting reports, not instead of the scouting reports. What matters is not which quarterback is ahead of which other quarterback by 100 points. Instead, what's important is who has an overall good or bad projection. Scouts still come first and foremost, but this method is valuable as a crosscheck device and should be part of the conversation about quarterback draft prospects.

With that in mind, let's look at the projections for this year's quarterbacks. These numbers represent an estimate for passing DYAR in years 3-5 of a player's career. The top prospects will be above 1,200 DYAR, and you should avoid quarterbacks below zero. Let's start with the top two guys, two of the highest-rated quarterbacks in LCF history who will also be the first two picks in the 2012 NFL Draft.
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Post by emoses14 »

When was the last time anyone came across information about Griffin III that wasn't positive? Every time I read, hear something about him, I just know this kid is going to be PRECISELY what we need hear. I CAN. NOT. WAIT.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

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Post by gay4pacman »

interesting read. everyone loves the kid. hope he is ready...
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Post by the poster »

emoses14 wrote:When was the last time anyone came across information about Griffin III that wasn't positive? Every time I read, hear something about him, I just know this kid is going to be PRECISELY what we need hear. I CAN. NOT. WAIT.


there's only one problem. he's going to a team with no offensive line and no other playmakers. and he won't be playing against Kansas state. they shoulda timed him in the 40 running backwards cuz he's gonna have to get used to that. they also have no cap space and no high draft picks for the forseeable future. they might have a qb, we'll see, but he's thin and will not hold up for 16 games a year in the NFL. they'll still be 6-10 cuz they got no talent around him
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Post by Prowl33 »

the poster wrote:
emoses14 wrote:When was the last time anyone came across information about Griffin III that wasn't positive? Every time I read, hear something about him, I just know this kid is going to be PRECISELY what we need hear. I CAN. NOT. WAIT.


there's only one problem. he's going to a team with no offensive line and no other playmakers. and he won't be playing against Kansas state. they shoulda timed him in the 40 running backwards cuz he's gonna have to get used to that. they also have no cap space and no high draft picks for the forseeable future. they might have a qb, we'll see, but he's thin and will not hold up for 16 games a year in the NFL. they'll still be 6-10 cuz they got no talent around him


Couldn't be further from the truth. We have a slightly below average O-Line, not because of the starting talent, but because of depth, a mobile QB, good run game (we got the backs for it) and some good wideouts (which we will get in FA) will hide any problems that will still exist with our o-line.

I would say if you did nothing else with our team last year but took out grossman and inserted RG3, you would of had an 8-8 or 9-7 team MINIMUM, considering we lost 4-5 games due to numerous late half grossman turnovers.

On top of that, we have good offensive weapons. We have 3 running backs that are very productive, we have 2 of the better tight ends you could ask for in the NFL, and we are primed to take atleast 1, if not 2 good WR's in FA, on top of a healthy Hankerson... Sounds like 2013 could shape up to be a good season to me.
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Post by Deadskins »

the imposter wrote:blah blah blah, I'm a Cowpie fan and a troll.

Yeah, we know this already. :roll:
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Post by Hooligan »

The key is this formula and the scouting reports match up. No way he's the next Jason Campbell.

Interesting that they predict Wilson to drop so far based on his height. If he's still there in round 6 do we grab him, too?
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Post by Irn-Bru »

the poster wrote:
emoses14 wrote:When was the last time anyone came across information about Griffin III that wasn't positive? Every time I read, hear something about him, I just know this kid is going to be PRECISELY what we need hear. I CAN. NOT. WAIT.


there's only one problem. he's going to a team with no offensive line and no other playmakers.

Simply not true. By the way, 2009 called, and they want their meme back.

and he won't be playing against Kansas state. they shoulda timed him in the 40 running backwards cuz he's gonna have to get used to that.

You are aware that even with Rex Grossman, who is horrendous at avoiding pressure, the Redskins were middle of the pack in terms of statistics related to dealing with the pass rush?

What am I saying. Of course you aren't.

they also have no cap space and no high draft picks for the forseeable future.

You just have no clue what you are talking about. Even after the penalty the league just imposed on the Redskins, we've got more cap space than many other teams in the NFL. Aside from that, we have very few or no players that (a) we must keep for the next 4-5 years (b) whose contracts will balloon out of control like you are seeing in Pittsburgh, New York, etc.


they might have a qb, we'll see, but he's thin and will not hold up for 16 games a year in the NFL.

He's not thin. At least, not any more than players like Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Peyton Manning, etc.

they'll still be 6-10 cuz they got no talent around him

It's too bad you won't stick around when the Skins win next year. I'm sure the board would love to hold you to statements like this. :twisted:
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Post by PickSixerTWSS »

the poster wrote:
emoses14 wrote:When was the last time anyone came across information about Griffin III that wasn't positive? Every time I read, hear something about him, I just know this kid is going to be PRECISELY what we need hear. I CAN. NOT. WAIT.


there's only one problem. he's going to a team with no offensive line and no other playmakers. and he won't be playing against Kansas state. they shoulda timed him in the 40 running backwards cuz he's gonna have to get used to that. they also have no cap space and no high draft picks for the forseeable future. they might have a qb, we'll see, but he's thin and will not hold up for 16 games a year in the NFL. they'll still be 6-10 cuz they got no talent around him


Ur just saying that because your a Browns fan. If you got the trade done for RG3 you would be fibbing about the offensive playmakers you desperetley need. You would probbably be also saying ur going to be playoff contenders.

You really think RG3 is going to have a problem handing-off to Roy Helu?
You really think he is going to have a hard time faking it to Roy Helu?
You really think he won't be able to run a bootleg and get 20 yards?
You really think he is going to have a hard time being in the shotgun and throwing darts?

Think of what you'd be saying if the Browns traded to #2.
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Post by PickSixerTWSS »

Have you also noticed that we have RG3 ( franchise QB) while you have Colt McCoy and the rest of your pittiful offensive playmakers???

Hey at least Hitler doesn't have to be worried anymore. :roll:


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Post by Deadskins »

PickSixerTWSS wrote:Think of what you'd be saying if the Browns traded to #2.

She'd be saying we missed a golden opportunity to get a franchise QB. I don't know why you think she's a Browns fan, just because she's talking down about RGIII. She's obviously a fan of an NFC East team. My bet is on the Cowpies.
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Post by the poster »

Prowl33 wrote:Couldn't be further from the truth. We have a slightly below average O-Line,


slightly?? c'mon. be realistic. I've seen the, try to open holes in the running game...they are a terrible running team. and I would say they're ok at best at pass blocking. but you have no rt and your lt is one joint away from being kicked out of the league. it's more than a slight problem.


not because of the starting talent, but because of depth, a mobile QB, good run game (we got the backs for it) and some good wideouts (which we will get in FA) will hide any problems that will still exist with our o-line.


oh so you're interested in hiding this flawed oline? the starters are mediocre, your right depth is non existent..and you will have injuries there, everyone does.

your running game SUX....nobody on planet earth is scared of Tim hightower or Roy helu. and now that the redskins have done what they njoy doing.....importing expensive mediocre wide receivers, you'll get to watch the uncomfortable chemistry of a bunch of new players and a college qb trying to navigate the NFL field against Jason pier Paul, Jason babin, Justin tuck, Trent Cole, and Demarcus ware. I've seen your teams recent record inside your division...it's terrible, good luck.


I would say if you did nothing else with our team last year but took out grossman and inserted RG3, you would of had an 8-8 or 9-7 team MINIMUM, considering we lost 4-5 games due to numerous late half grossman turnovers.


care to make it interesting? I'll be willig to bet a 1000 cash that Washington is not even .500 (as usual) this coming season. check out my PM if you want to discuss it.

On top of that, we have good offensive weapons. We have 3 running backs that are very productive, we have 2 of the better tight ends you could ask for in the NFL, and we are primed to take atleast 1, if not 2 good WR's in FA, on top of a healthy Hankerson... Sounds like 2013 could shape up to be a good season to me.[/quote]
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Post by ATX_Skins »

the poster wrote:
Prowl33 wrote:Couldn't be further from the truth. We have a slightly below average O-Line,


slightly?? c'mon. be realistic. I've seen the, try to open holes in the running game...they are a terrible running team. and I would say they're ok at best at pass blocking. but you have no rt and your lt is one joint away from being kicked out of the league. it's more than a slight problem.


not because of the starting talent, but because of depth, a mobile QB, good run game (we got the backs for it) and some good wideouts (which we will get in FA) will hide any problems that will still exist with our o-line.


oh so you're interested in hiding this flawed oline? the starters are mediocre, your right depth is non existent..and you will have injuries there, everyone does.

your running game SUX....nobody on planet earth is scared of Tim hightower or Roy helu. and now that the redskins have done what they njoy doing.....importing expensive mediocre wide receivers, you'll get to watch the uncomfortable chemistry of a bunch of new players and a college qb trying to navigate the NFL field against Jason pier Paul, Jason babin, Justin tuck, Trent Cole, and Demarcus ware. I've seen your teams recent record inside your division...it's terrible, good luck.


I would say if you did nothing else with our team last year but took out grossman and inserted RG3, you would of had an 8-8 or 9-7 team MINIMUM, considering we lost 4-5 games due to numerous late half grossman turnovers.


care to make it interesting? I'll be willig to bet a 1000 cash that Washington is not even .500 (as usual) this coming season. check out my PM if you want to discuss it.

On top of that, we have good offensive weapons. We have 3 running backs that are very productive, we have 2 of the better tight ends you could ask for in the NFL, and we are primed to take atleast 1, if not 2 good WR's in FA, on top of a healthy Hankerson... Sounds like 2013 could shape up to be a good season to me.
[/quote]

Thanks for the insight Poser.
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Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

No one fears a rookie who was almost voted offensive rookie of the year? Who broke 100 every game he started except one when he played hurt? Or Royster who averaged over 5 yards a carry and also broke 100 every start? Get real..
Our line played some of the best pass rushers and did well especially considering how much starters went out. Yes they can be improved but what line can't be? As is they are not an overall bad unit.
Any true football fan can recognise the potential we have to be vastly improved this year...
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Post by DarthMonk »

Deadskins wrote:
PickSixerTWSS wrote:Think of what you'd be saying if the Browns traded to #2.

She'd be saying we missed a golden opportunity to get a franchise QB. I don't know why you think she's a Browns fan, just because she's talking down about RGIII. She's obviously a fan of an NFC East team. My bet is on the Cowpies.


the poster wrote:you're not getting rg3 though so forget about him....he's a Cleveland brown....and your meaningless win vs the giants at the end of the year cost u him (thank u very much).


This is fairly good evidence that the poster is a fan of the Ever Bland Clowns = Cleveland Browns ... though her "thank u" could be because she is "in the service of" a division rival.

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Post by Shock n Awe »

He is the best I have seen coming out of college in long time. Really improved his deep throws this year. I even put together video showcasing his skills.

http://youtu.be/EZCPq63PVww
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Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

Nice! That fifty yard bomb will look good at FedEx field!

I woulda added a few more of his amazing runs and extending the play before passing.. along w the snap over his head that he avoids a sack then lasers a td and the run play that he blocked a defender Putin the hit stock on him.. kid is such a beast, I might be bias but I can't think of any qb I'd rather have
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Post by the poster »

Shock n Awe wrote:He is the best I have seen coming out of college in long time. Really improved his deep throws this year. I even put together video showcasing his skills.

http://youtu.be/EZCPq63PVww


did anybody notice that on this so called highlight reel and virtually any highlight videos of him on YouTube it's basically the same two style plays.

1. him faking a handoff and then running up the middle. do u really think he's going to be doing a lot of that in the pros? if you said, no, then there marks a significant percentage of all his highlights as pointless in the NFL. if you said yes, well you're just a moron.

2. long bombs where he drops back in the pocket or runs from the pocket, has no pressure and throws a (admittedly) accurate bomb to some wide receiver who is one on one with someone he is either burning real bad or at least has one step on.


when evaluating a qb one thing you want to look at are plays where there is a lot of pressure on him and what is the result of those plays. you're ot going to find them on YouTube, only homosexual fan boy positive plays. I would want to see every pass play any qb is involved in and see how accurate and his decision making when there's people all in his face in the pocket. I want to see the guy throw the ball 15 yards down the field into small windows. because....THAT is what life in the NFL is like.
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Post by Irn-Bru »

Must have hurt seeing the Skins grab that second pick. Holmgren is crying now but don't worry: things will return to normal in the long run.

In the meantime, I promise we'll try not to rub it in if you promise to stop making up reasons to hate on RGIII. Deal?
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Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

Anyone that watched the 6 minute video and video made by buRGiii.com and has nothing nice to say... Is a total hater without an ounce of crediblility in any analysis. Ever.
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Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

Poster.
What is a homosexual fan boy?
Through two thirds of his senior year RGiii had MORE TD passes then total incomplete passes.
What is accuracy?
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Post by skinpride1 »

I've read the rg3 didn't play any big 12 defenses but when he did play one of them the longhorns he did well. Yes the bears used heavy shotgun plays with rg3 way back but rg3 is already working with a NFL q b coach so he can be ready for training camp that speaks volume about rg3 character to go with those skills. The coach which has 20 years experience in NFl says he thinks rg3 is the real deal.
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Post by Countertrey »

skinpride1 wrote:I've read the rg3 didn't play any big 12 defenses but when he did play one of them the longhorns he did well. Yes the bears used heavy shotgun plays with rg3 way back but rg3 is already working with a NFL q b coach so he can be ready for training camp that speaks volume about rg3 character to go with those skills. The coach which has 20 years experience in NFl says he thinks rg3 is the real deal.
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Post by crazyhorse1 »

Hooligan wrote:The key is this formula and the scouting reports match up. No way he's the next Jason Campbell.

Interesting that they predict Wilson to drop so far based on his height. If he's still there in round 6 do we grab him, too?


Yes, we definitely grab Wilson. Fabulous player.
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Post by DarthMonk »

Quotes from the poster = herpes tot before his Ever Bland Clowns lost out on RGIII:

the poster wrote:a potential super star qb


the poster wrote:the rams will trade the pick to the best offer they get. if it's the redskins it's not because their (sic) friends.


the poster wrote:you're not getting rg3 though so forget about him....he's a Cleveland brown....and your meaningless win vs the giants at the end of the year cost u him (thank u very much).


the poster wrote:I heard something similar only with Randy cross, the NFL analyst and former 49er who was on the radio 2 days ago. when asked about what qb is going where, without even being prompted he said well I know this, the kid from Baylor is going to Cleveland. they want him bad and are prepared (and I quote) to blow any competing offer out of the water.


... and then, as soon as WE land him ...

the poster wrote:he looks skinny/scrawny for the nl (sic)


Image

the poster wrote:
Shock n Awe wrote:He is the best I have seen coming out of college in long time. Really improved his deep throws this year. I even put together video showcasing his skills.

http://youtu.be/EZCPq63PVww


did anybody notice that on this so called highlight reel and virtually any highlight videos of him on YouTube it's basically the same two style plays.

1. him faking a handoff and then running up the middle. do u really think he's going to be doing a lot of that in the pros? if you said, no, then there marks a significant percentage of all his highlights as pointless in the NFL. if you said yes, well you're just a moron.

2. long bombs where he drops back in the pocket or runs from the pocket, has no pressure and throws a (admittedly) accurate bomb to some wide receiver who is one on one with someone he is either burning real bad or at least has one step on.

when evaluating a qb one thing you want to look at are plays where there is a lot of pressure on him and what is the result of those plays. you're ot going to find them on YouTube, only homosexual fan boy positive plays. I would want to see every pass play any qb is involved in and see how accurate and his decision making when there's people all in his face in the pocket. I want to see the guy throw the ball 15 yards down the field into small windows. because....THAT is what life in the NFL is like.
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