Offensive Line

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:15 am

Okay, so Mike Shanahan has forgotten more about football than I will ever know... but what exactly is he seeing here that I don't?

Two days into free agency, and the only offensive lineman we've been linked to is Ben Grubbs (who insiders say is a longshot to sign in Washington.) I see the offensive line as the biggest weakness on our offense. Surely, if we're planning to invest the #2 pick in a QB, we'll want to protect them. I just don't see a starting 5 anywhere on the roster.

First we have Trent Williams. Former #4 overall pick, and the jury has been a little out on him. Still, Pro Football Focus, one of the leaders in offensive line scouting says he could be on his way to a Pro Bowl some day. Let's just assume he stays out of trouble and #71 is at least average at LT. That leaves the LG position. Kory Lichtensteiger is unsigned, and even if we re-sign him, so what? Is he going to be a stud player? He's just a guy. I worry the same with Will Montgomery. He seems to be just a guy. Is he going to be a quality center?

Chris Chester was signed last season, and I think it's pretty well established that he was a bust. Jammal Brown has yet to have a healthy season and hasn't shown a bit of the Pro-Bowl talent he flashed in New Orleans.

In a lot of ways, this line is in worse shape than last season. There's at least less cause for optimism since we've seen another season from most of these guys and know what to expect. Is there a dark horse starter coming back? Willie Smith? Mo Hurt?

Probably not...

Let's hope the Redskins start putting some money into that o-line. Signing WR's won't help if our new rookie QB is on his butt.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:36 am

Skinsfan55 wrote: I see the offensive line as the biggest weakness on our offense

It made sense to start with receiver, but I'm with you that we should be focusing on OL right now. The top receivers were going to go fastest and that was our biggest need. But OL is definitely next. It's not like we need a whole line either. Minimum a RT and preferably one interior as well would put us in good shape.

northcarolinaredskin · Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:37 am

Evan Mathis, guard for the Eagles has been linked to us. He is very under-rated and would be a drastic improvement at Left Guard. One of the best guards of the entire 2011 season. We need to make moves assap on either grubbs, mathis, or winston

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:01 am

One thing that Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan pointed out yesterday was that Winston is the top of this class. Let's say he'll cost you $1.00. Well, Grubbs will cost you about .75c on the dollar and Mathis, due to his injury history will cost you less than that. The falloff between Winston to Mathis or Grubbs isn't so great that given the salary, you go with the cheapest guy and draft someone late who you see have ton's of upside w/ a lot of skill. Maybe hasn't played against top talent, injury history, etc. But why is cost so important? Well, we have a little thing called the cap. And in DC, we got roughed up by the NFL and they stole MOST of our cap so we're forced to make things work.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:37 am

I'm always in favor of upgrading our offensive line, but I find it a huge stretch to say that offensive line was the biggest weakness on our offense. QB and WR were clearly the biggest weaknesses last year - and we've addressed both positions.

We're not even two full days into free agency yet. With this salary cap penalty, the Redskins need to be smart with how they spend and get the best possible deals they can for these players. We're going to have to be patient while this plays out.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:40 am

Do we really view Chester as a bust?

oneman56 · Post by **oneman56** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:47 am

Grubbs signs in NO.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:51 am

Yeah, I'm nervous that we will end up only picking up one guy and he will be nothing special. In other words we'll do same thing we did last year.

Personally I would sign everyone of the Texans' FA OL. The C, LG, & RT.

The first call I would have made would have been to an OL, the second call would have been to an OL, ... the tenth call I would have made would have been to an OL. Then I would have started calling Wrs.

I hope they are trying to let the second tier of the market to get set for the OL, but gods that makes me extremely nervous!

If we had drafted RG3 and added three quality starters (read good to very good) to the OL, we would have improved our WR corps w/o adding a single player.

The players we added at WR should help our team some, but they aren't a dramatic improvement over what we have. (That is MHO, please don't argue it in this thread!) We can still add OL the are a HUGE, DRAMATIC, DRASTIC improvement over what we have at OL.

I just don't think the team will

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:51 am

emoses14 wrote:Do we really view Chester as a bust?

I don't. Wasn't he hurt? Just b/c a guy get's hurt doesn't mean that he's not a capable player. Also keep in mind that he's under contract so he'll be playing and most likely starting on the Rt side.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:54 am

Well Grubbs is off the market!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/saints-grab-grubbs/

bigricky · Post by **bigricky** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:03 am

Where are the Saints getting all this money. At the end of the season they were 15mil under the cap and 15 mil went to Brees when they franchised him.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:03 am

emoses14 wrote:Do we really view Chester as a bust?

No, he wasn't a bust. He wasn't even bad.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:20 am

frankcal20 wrote:One thing that Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan pointed out yesterday was that Winston is the top of this class. Let's say he'll cost you $1.00. Well, Grubbs will cost you about .75c on the dollar and Mathis, due to his injury history will cost you less than that. The falloff between Winston to Mathis or Grubbs isn't so great that given the salary, you go with the cheapest guy and draft someone late who you see have ton's of upside w/ a lot of skill. Maybe hasn't played against top talent, injury history, etc. But why is cost so important? Well, we have a little thing called the cap. And in DC, we got roughed up by the NFL and they stole MOST of our cap so we're forced to make things work.

From what I've gathered from 1niksder - we can still add free agents

The salary cap we have to work with is not as good as it was but it is still better than we're used to dealing with

Bruce Allen can make this work for us

I'd love for this FO to add a couple of free agent linemen

PLUS draft O linemen as well

DEPTH along both lines is VERY important

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:33 am

SkinsJock wrote:DEPTH along both lines is VERY important

I agree, but having starters is even more important. We need a starting RT and LG. JB's hip may never be right again and we could use an upgrade over him. Cory L's knee was shreaded middle of last season and there is a good chance he won't be be ready at the beginning of the season. He needs to be replaced. Signing a better starting LG would improve the starters as well as the backups if we keep Cory as a backup!

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:35 am

I think they tendered Kory Lichtensteiger, so that's not an issue.

The skins have been linked to a lot of different o-lineman over the past couple of days. Give the front office some credit, they're not going to overpay for lineman. Give it another week and I bet we sign at least two...

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:36 am

MikeJonesWaPo: #Redskins have expressed interest in Texans OG Mike Brisiel, who started 13 games last season.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:17 pm

frankcal20 wrote:
emoses14 wrote:Do we really view Chester as a bust?

I don't. Wasn't he hurt? Just b/c a guy get's hurt doesn't mean that he's not a capable player. Also keep in mind that he's under contract so he'll be playing and most likely starting on the Rt side.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
No, he wasn't a bust. He wasn't even bad.

See, that's what I thought as well.

I actually didn't think we needed to go RG hunting, but just wait and see what Chester looks like in year 2 in offense with a better RT. I thought RT, yes-go get someone right NOW; possibly LG depending on what they thought of Kory pre-injury and about his recovery(to err on side of caution, I wanted a LG to replace him, but would understand if only a young guy brought in to battle him via draft) and I could be talked into a center, though pretty ok with who we have, just not what's behind him.

LT doesn't need to be discussed in my opinion.

Skeletor · Post by **Skeletor** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:35 pm

I think the problem with Chester was pass blocking. he did a good job with running blocking because he's athletic and mobile, but not as strong...

I've heard theories that Kory could be a better option at C, if they can find a starter for LG.

But I think right now Brown is the weak link because he can't stay healthy. Read that Shanahan told him, if you want to be on the team, you have to be in the facility in the offseason rehabbing your injuries. and by all accounts he has been. But I'm still not sure he can be counted on.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:40 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
emoses14 wrote:Do we really view Chester as a bust?

No, he wasn't a bust. He wasn't even bad.

Chester was fine. I wonder what SF55 means when he says that it's "pretty well established." Established by what stats? By what experts? This is the first I've heard of it.

I can't figure out why everyone keeps talking about our offensive line like it's some pathetic, cobbled-together piece of crap. QB and WR were much bigger needs going into the offseason.

PAPDOG67 · Post by **PAPDOG67** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:41 pm

emoses14 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:
emoses14 wrote:Do we really view Chester as a bust?

I don't. Wasn't he hurt? Just b/c a guy get's hurt doesn't mean that he's not a capable player. Also keep in mind that he's under contract so he'll be playing and most likely starting on the Rt side.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
No, he wasn't a bust. He wasn't even bad.

See, that's what I thought as well.

I actually didn't think we needed to go RG hunting, but just wait and see what Chester looks like in year 2 in offense with a better RT. I thought RT, yes-go get someone right NOW; possibly LG depending on what they thought of Kory pre-injury and about his recovery(to err on side of caution, I wanted a LG to replace him, but would understand if only a young guy brought in to battle him via draft) and I could be talked into a center, though pretty ok with who we have, just not what's behind him.

LT doesn't need to be discussed in my opinion.

I don't think Chester played all that bad last season. Our problems IMHO, other than depth, was RT (Brown) and C (Montgomery). I don't know what people see in Monty, but he got blown up and beaten way too many times for my liking. He is a backup at best. Same with Brown. He struggled big time in pass protection against faster DE. Unless his hip is 100%, we will need to upgrade.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:51 pm

emoses14 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:
emoses14 wrote:Do we really view Chester as a bust?

I don't. Wasn't he hurt? Just b/c a guy get's hurt doesn't mean that he's not a capable player. Also keep in mind that he's under contract so he'll be playing and most likely starting on the Rt side.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
No, he wasn't a bust. He wasn't even bad.

See, that's what I thought as well.

I actually didn't think we needed to go RG hunting, but just wait and see what Chester looks like in year 2 in offense with a better RT. I thought RT, yes-go get someone right NOW; possibly LG depending on what they thought of Kory pre-injury and about his recovery(to err on side of caution, I wanted a LG to replace him, but would understand if only a young guy brought in to battle him via draft) and I could be talked into a center, though pretty ok with who we have, just not what's behind him.

LT doesn't need to be discussed in my opinion.

I share SF33's overall concern w/OL but I believe Chester surrendered zero sacks. That could be wrong but that's what the "Inernets" tell me.

Anyway, one stud would go a long way toward mollifying such concerns. On the glass half-full side we could say:

Trent = very good
Licht = good
Monty = good
Chester = good
Smith/Brown = (w/fingers crossed) good

This is an optimistic view to be sure. The truth is probably somewhere between this and "the OL sky is falling."

It'd be great if we could call the backups good and most of the starters very good.

DarthMonk

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:17 pm

Skeletor wrote:I think they tendered Kory Lichtensteiger, so that's not an issue.

The skins have been linked to a lot of different o-lineman over the past couple of days. Give the front office some credit, they're not going to overpay for lineman. Give it another week and I bet we sign at least two...

It is if he isn't healthy enough to play at the start of the season!

Besides he is an OK option as a starting LG, but would be a fantastic backup! Could back up every intererior OL spot.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:18 pm

Skeletor wrote:MikeJonesWaPo: #Redskins have expressed interest in Texans OG Mike Brisiel, who started 13 games last season.

PLEEEAAASSE!

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:37 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:I can't figure out why everyone keeps talking about our offensive line like it's some pathetic, cobbled-together piece of crap. QB and WR were much bigger needs going into the offseason.

Completely agree with QB being a bigger need that is now solved! Completely disagree with WR. The two guys we went out and got MAY end up being better than what we had, but they aren't huge upgrades!

Garcon's stats were nearly identicle to Gafney's. If you want to say he had a worse QB than Rex/Beck last year then I say OK. How about the prior two seasons, also identicle to Gafney's? How was his QB situation there? I like the Josh Morgan signing (didn't at first, but do now), but he hasn't been as productive as Moss, but he can certainly stretch the field!

Our OL is one of the worst in the NFL!!! Only the CHawks and Rams let their QB get hit more than our pass blockers (not all on the OL) and only 11 teams gave up more sacks. Only 5 teams had fewer rushing TDs than us and only 7 teams rushed for fewer yards.

So they couldn't pass protect and couldn't run the ball, but other than that they were great!

Sure they had a lot of injuries, but most teams take a lot of injuries on the OL too. Heck the running game actually improved when the OL was mostly backups!

Other than Tokey, I mean TW, tell me any guy on our OL that would start for any of the top 20 teams? I'm not asking for top ten talent, I just want guys that would start on half of the teams in the NFL!

Is that asking too much?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
I can't figure out why everyone keeps talking about our offensive line like it's some pathetic, cobbled-together piece of crap. QB and WR were much bigger needs going into the offseason.

People cannot comprehend how one position group effects the next. You're asking people to comprehend... Lol

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