Why the Washington Redskins Will Win the 2013 SuperBowl

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:46 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:In two years he has one less win than Zorn did

Because while you were looking for how well he did with a crappy team in two years, fans of the team were looking for him to re-build it from the ground up. Different objectives.

jmooney · Post by **jmooney** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:43 pm

Forget the coaches. If we were to swap QB's with the Giant's , theres a 4th Lombardi sitting in Ashburn right now.

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:52 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:In two years he has one less win than Zorn did
Because while you were looking for how well he did with a crappy team in two years, fans of the team were looking for him to re-build it from the ground up. Different objectives.

This is true Kazoo but also Zorn never had control like these guys do and look what he was handicapped with. He got a team designed for smash mouth and try to convert them to WC. I do agree with you though. The new coaches changed both D and O. They could have won more with the old defense but decided to tear it apart and that stung. I think these coaches can make us respectable but I still have my doubts about going to the big one or even being a power house team like in the 80s. Mike is supposed to be some kind of football guru but so far all I can see is a long rebuilding process.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:40 pm

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:C'mon Canes - it's a fact that you do not like that Mike is the HC of the Redskins

how can you then state that you're being objective?

I don't like Coughlin and hence my statement - I qualified my feeling - I'm biased

Shanahan is doing well with what he's got here and he's going to get this franchise back into shape
In two years he has one less win than Zorn did. How is he doing well? The last time he had an above .500 record was in 2006. When he starts winning ball games I'll be impressed.
Well get prepared to be impressed my friend. If we draft as well as we did last year and get that QB we need then we'll win this division.

If you take away the starting QBs from our division rivals there is really very little to seperate any of the four teams in my opinion.

That's a lot of "if's".

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:44 pm

SkinsJock wrote:You can lead a horse to water .....

Canes - you are a part of a very small minority if you don't think that this franchise is better off right now than it was after 2 years with Zorn

we were an embarrassment - we are not there yet but this FO and this HC are responsible for really decent gains

I don't really care - you're just never going to like what Shanahan achieves here

I never said we weren't better off. As usual, you are arguing against things that nobody actually said. Is Allen/Shanahan better than Vinny/Zorn? Yes. Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:10 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.

Really? Why not?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:46 am

everyone understands what has been going on here and who is responsible

this FO has made mistakes, especially with not finding a young QB - Although that is mainly because there just has not been many available

they have found that the franchise was in a lot worse shape than they thought

I have no doubt that we will see this franchise in the playoffs this season and with a little luck we could even have been in the playoffs last season

making a statement that compares what Zorn did and what Shanahan has done is pointless

Shanahan is a future HOF coach - Zorn is not likely to be a HC again

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:03 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Canes - you are a part of a very small minority if you don't think that this franchise is better off right now than it was after 2 years with Zorn
I never said we weren't better off. As usual, you are arguing against things that nobody actually said. Is Allen/Shanahan better than Vinny/Zorn? Yes. Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.

let me clarify - you brought up the win loss record - I took that to mean that Shanahan had not done as well
OR ... that we were better off with Zorn than Shanahan - what were you implying by that?

We don't know for sure that we'll be in the playoffs but we are seeing a lot of encouraging signs here

I see a very different attitude by the players than we are used to here and this FO has this franchise heading in a good direction

we now are managed by guys that know what they're doing and they have a plan
PLUS .... the NFC East was just won by a team that we beat twice - in games that their franchise would have wanted badly to win

I AM NOT SAYING that means a whole lot but .... we are not far off either

you may not think that the Shanaplan is going to work here but there are not many here that would agree with that thought

we'll shortly see how intuitive you are or not

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:34 pm

Deadskins wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.
Really? Why not?

The same reason why he got fired in Denver...once he became the de facto GM his teams started to struggle. Like I said in another post, the last time that he had an above .500 record was in 2006.

Since Elway retired, Shanahan has essentially been a .500 coach, with an overall record of 103-94. In those twelve season, his teams have been .500 or worse 6 times. In those twelve season he has only won his division 1 time and has 1 playoff win. He lives off of his success with Elway, but since that time he's been nothing special as a coach, and is vastly overrated in my opinion.

Winning the division once in twelve years and winning one playoff game in that time frame does not constitute success.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:44 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:In two years he has one less win than Zorn did
Because while you were looking for how well he did with a crappy team in two years, fans of the team were looking for him to re-build it from the ground up. Different objectives.
This is true Kazoo but also Zorn never had control like these guys do and look what he was handicapped with. He got a team designed for smash mouth and try to convert them to WC. I do agree with you though. The new coaches changed both D and O. They could have won more with the old defense but decided to tear it apart and that stung. I think these coaches can make us respectable but I still have my doubts about going to the big one or even being a power house team like in the 80s. Mike is supposed to be some kind of football guru but so far all I can see is a long rebuilding process.

I think this and next year we do need to start seeing more results in the win column. Just the first two years taking over a team built by the GMs being dumb and dumber and the not ready for prime time coach on the field, you start with what they did. Finding younger players and developing a culture. But after as you point out actual control for a couple years, we really do need to start at least contending for the division the next couple years. Canes wasn't wrong on his expectations, just completely unrealistic in the timeline.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:51 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I think this and next year we do need to start seeing more results in the win column. Just the first two years taking over a team built by the GMs being dumb and dumber and the not ready for prime time coach on the field, you start with what they did. Finding younger players and developing a culture. But after as you point out actual control for a couple years, we really do need to start at least contending for the division the next couple years. Canes wasn't wrong on his expectations, just completely unrealistic in the timeline.

Well said. I think complaining about our W-L record from the first two seasons just completely overlooks how rotten this team was.

Who knows? Canes may end up being right that Shanahan isn't the guy capable of ultimately taking this team consistently to the playoffs, titles, etc; But I still say he is the right coach for what we really needed which was to clean up the mess, lay the foundation for a real pro organization and start building a team that can compete again. Its his reputation that's giving him the time to do that - so we should all be thankful he has it, whether its deserved or not.

I'm not sure what my expectations are for this coming season. I agree with Kazoo that we need to start seeing more Ws in year 3. Addressing the QB situation this year will hopefully make that easier.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:02 pm

We've gotta see more results this year--and I think we will. A QB for now and the future is integral.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:30 pm

Dude, of course we're going to win the SB in 2013.. how the heck can there be any flippin doubt?????

<-- has predicted Skins will win SB since 1979 when I came to this great country of the USA.. of course I was only 2 at that time so I'm lying.

jr_uscg · Post by **jr_uscg** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:07 pm

Did you see the article on ESPN about the Redskins? "it's Not Your Dads Old Redskins" Some more positive reading! Can someone post it? I'm on the train trying to get home. Check it out.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:15 pm

jr_uscg wrote:Did you see the article on ESPN about the Redskins? "it's Not Your Dads Old Redskins" Some more positive reading! Can someone post it? I'm on the train trying to get home. Check it out.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... d-redskins

I get it, Washington Redskins fans. You've been hurt. You've been burned too many times by big March headlines you thought would bring lasting happiness but instead brought heartache, and now it's difficult for you to trust. You don't want to be hurt again.

How else to explain the horrified reaction by a quarterback-starved fan base to the idea of signing Peyton Manning? Judging by the reactions from the folks in our comments section all the way up to the mayor of Washington, D.C., you'd think we were talking about handing the starting quarterback's job to Dan Snyder's teenage nephew. This is what Mayor Vincent Gray had to say on the topic to a D.C. television station last week:
"You know, I think it depends on what role he would play, Bruce," Gray said. "But I really think the Redskins need a quarterback that they can build with for the future. You know, Andrew Luck is probably going to go to the Colts, but there's Robert Griffin III, and there's a couple other promising quarterbacks that are out there. We've kind of been down this pathway with quarterbacks who've been great but maybe are in the back end of their career, and even if he comes in and plays a year or two, where do we go from there?"

Well, jeez, Mr. Mayor. At that point, you go with the guy you drafted in 2013 because you weren't able to trade up and get Griffin in 2012. Or you go with a young guy you picked later in that draft who's been apprenticing for a year or two under Peyton Manning, for goodness' sake. What Gray and many other Redskins fans seem to be missing here is that Mike Shanahan can't just go to the "franchise quarterback" aisle at the Wegman's down the road from the team's Ashburn, Va., training facility and pick one. Only one team's going to get Griffin, and if the Redskins aren't that team, they need to have a good Plan B. If Manning is fully healthy and shows he can throw the ball the way he was throwing it two years ago before his neck injury, he's the greatest Plan B in alphabetically-themed planning history.

Redskins fans, the mayor included, are looking at this whole thing through the disappointing prism of free-agent signing periods past. I'm hearing names like Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Albert Haynesworth and yeah, Donovan McNabb -- a list of big-name star players the Redskins brought in to great fanfare and who flopped for one reason or another. Because of this, the chorus moans, Manning isn't the way to go. The Redskins have done the big-name/big-contract thing before and it just never works out. They need to stop doing business this way.

Well, guess what? They kind of already have. Yeah, McNabb was a mistake -- a flyer Shanahan took thinking he could re-light a spark that had gone out in Philadelphia and maybe sneak into the playoffs in his first year in Washington. He acknowledges it was a risk that didn't work out. But (a) Manning is not McNabb, who was no longer driven to excel by the time the Redskins got him and (b) the McNabb acquisition is an outlier among the moves Shanahan and Bruce Allen have made since taking over personnel decisions two years ago. Everything else they've done in the draft and free agency has been focused, sober and competent, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt, even from Redskins fans scarred by the mistakes of past administrations.

[+] Enlarge

AP Photo/Frederick Breedon
Adding Peyton Manning for the right price would make a lot of sense for the Redskins.
Snyder doesn't pull these strings anymore. Part of the agreement Shanahan signed when he took the job was that Snyder would let him build the team, as he puts it, "the right way." Last year's draft was an exercise in patience, as Shanahan refused to reach for quarterbacks he didn't think were the long-term answer simply because he had a need at that position. He traded back, trying to build depth, and picked up key future pieces like Ryan Kerrigan, Roy Helu, Evan Royster, Jarvis Jenkins and Dejon Gomes. He has eight picks this year and will have to decide how many of them he's willing to sacrifice if he wants to move up to draft Griffin. Shanahan knows how many needs his team has, so he's not going to make that decision lightly.

In the meantime, there is free agency, and although the Redskins didn't make a big splash last summer, they did very well in free agency. Shanahan targeted specific players in the 27-29-year-old age group -- guys he believed were already established but still young and hungry enough to grow and develop with the team. He plans to use the same formula this year to address wide receiver, offensive line and the secondary. He's not after the biggest name out there. He's after the specific types of players he believes his team needs in order to build a consistent, year-to-year winner.

Which brings us back to Manning, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Shanahan's not going to give Manning a big, five-year, huge-money deal. I don't think anyone is, given the health concerns, but if the market gets that crazy, I don't expect the Redskins to play in it. It just wouldn't be smart. Bringing Manning in on a one-year or two-year deal with incentives to allow him to prove he's healthy is smart, because if Manning is healthy, he's worth as much as any quarterback in the league.

That's the important thing to remember here, Redskins fans. Manning isn't a "fading star" who's past his prime. He was, before his neck injury, playing at as high a level as any quarterback in the league. He got hurt and missed a season. Now, it appears he'll be available again. And if he shows teams he can throw the ball the way he did in 2010, he's a smart short-term investment for a team that needs a quarterback answer now and for the future. The ideal solution would be both, but if that's not out there, the Redskins need to be smart about addressing the former while keeping their eye on the latter. So far, the Shanahan regime has shown that it doesn't do business like those "same old Redskins" who've hurt you so many times.

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:01 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Dude, of course we're going to win the SB in 2013.. how the heck can there be any flippin doubt?????

<-- has predicted Skins will win SB since 1979 when I came to this great country of the USA.. of course I was only 2 at that time so I'm lying.

LMAO!!!!!

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:03 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I do believe we are in the playoffs and we do have the best HC in the NFC East

Come on now, you have to fess up. You are related to Shanahan aren't you?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:22 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I do believe we are in the playoffs and we do have the best HC in the NFC East
Come on now, you have to fess up. You are related to Shanahan aren't you?

+1

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:15 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I do believe we are in the playoffs and we do have the best HC in the NFC East
Come on now, you have to fess up. You are related to Shanahan aren't you?
+1

I was not sure at first that Mike would be able to have the control he needed to both manage and coach this franchise and make it a viable contender in the NFC East again - apart from the obvious mistakes in both choice of QBs and treatment of players he's done a good job

I see Mike as being primarily responsible for putting this franchise back on track where we, with a few key additions, can be very competitive again soon

I'd rather have Mike Shanahan coaching and managing for the next few years because he's gotten us into position for success much quicker than anyone could have expected

Canes may be right in his assessment and I will acknowledge that if it happens
I will ride his ass into the ground and beyond when he's proven wrong

I'm a Redskins fan and I don't appreciate other fans thinking it's okay to play badly so we'll get a good draft pick

this season is going to show that the Shanaplan is the best option for this franchise

I'm not at all confident about being in the Super Bowl but I do think this franchise is headed in the right direction under Shanahan DESPITE what Canes feels

I'm sure there are a few other Shanahan detractors but they're not as obvious

bring it on - I'll be here

HTTR

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:23 pm

Let's just imagine that we get a decent free agent QB in here

AND THEN .... we draft a legit, future great QB ....

is there anyone here that thinks we don't have a great chance at being a playoff contender for the next 5 years or so

this franchise is being assembled by guys with an eye to the future and this is the begining of some great years here

SouthLondonRedskin · Post by **SouthLondonRedskin** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:30 am

I'm with you Jock, I feel good times are coming.

In Shanahan We Trust.

I'm getting so impatient about free agency and the draft, all this endless debate, the suspense is killing me!!!

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:04 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Do I expect Shanahan to get us to where we are consistently competing for the division? No, I don't.
Really? Why not?
The same reason why he got fired in Denver...once he became the de facto GM his teams started to struggle. Like I said in another post, the last time that he had an above .500 record was in 2006.

Since Elway retired, Shanahan has essentially been a .500 coach, with an overall record of 103-94. In those twelve season, his teams have been .500 or worse 6 times. In those twelve season he has only won his division 1 time and has 1 playoff win. He lives off of his success with Elway, but since that time he's been nothing special as a coach, and is vastly overrated in my opinion.

Winning the division once in twelve years and winning one playoff game in that time frame does not constitute success.

I totally agree with you on the whole Elway thing, but after last year's draft I can't agree that he doesn't have us going in the right direction to become consistently competitive in the division.

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:59 am

We smashed the gstrings twice and barely fell short to both puke game. Better qb play we easily beat the pukes and upset NE. Probably a few more ya could add. But fact is shanny very nearly fielded a team that won the division with Rex grossman! Elway he is not... hell if we had elway last year he woulda done better. We beat the sb champs both years he's been here w poooooor qb play. We are getting better and imo headed in the right direction.