why we should trade up for a franchise QB

[KazooSkinsFan]

Gibbs left for all the right reasons - one of which was he knew that even he could not help this franchise with Snyder & Cerrato involved

Pulled out of your...

[Chris Luva Luva]

He invited his opinion, but did he listen to it?

Neither one of us know for sure. What we do know is that he was involved to some extent and a greater extent than he is now.

And I have to respectfully disagree that Gibbs could have consistently had success with Rocky and Bullwinkle at his side. And let's not make it like we strolled into the playoffs. And aside from that, the team was not consistent. For the premier teams in the leauge, squeaking to the playoffs barely above .500 isn't something to rave about. And to not even do that consistently, isn't that much to be proud of. It just shows the piss poor state of the franchise and with how little Gibbs had to work with.

[KazooSkinsFan]

He invited his opinion, but did he listen to it?

Neither one of us know for sure. What we do know is that he was involved to some extent and a greater extent than he is now.

We know that how? I would say he appeared to talk to Gibbs more, but I addressed that with managing your manager. I can't imagine him caring what Danny thought about players with their respective backgrounds.

And I have to respectfully disagree that Gibbs could have consistently had success with Rocky and Bullwinkle at his side.

OK, your opinion. But I don't see how it's different then now other then the titles. Gibbs called the shots, now Mikey does.

And let's not make it like we strolled into the playoffs.

Can you not address other people's posts in our discussion? It gets confusing. I don't even know who you're addressing here as I've never seen anyone say this.

And aside from that, the team was not consistent. For the premier teams in the leauge, squeaking to the playoffs barely above .500 isn't something to rave about. And to not even do that consistently, isn't that much to be proud of. It just shows the piss poor state of the franchise and with how little Gibbs had to work with.

All this is addressed by my point he took a Spurrier team and was improving it, not a Perdue team which was well coached. We then handed the keys to Zorn who wasn't ready for the job and then Danny did do what you say he did under Gibbs, though so far have nothing to back it up with.

[Chris Luva Luva]

We then handed the keys to Zorn who wasn't ready for the job and then Danny did do what you say he did under Gibbs, though so far have nothing to back it up with.

So I have no proof that Snyder was meddling when Gibbs was here? Ok...


All from the mouth of Joe Jackson Gibbs...

“The three of us [Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato] normally at the end of it try and come up with a final game plan for the draft....Dan’s philosophy is to be aggressive. We fall in the category of being more aggressive and it’s based on Dan being as aggressive as he is.”

“We talk a lot. We are back and forth all the time. We work down the hall from one another. I count on his opinion. He’s very instrumental on the draft, the salary-cap, free agency, strategy on how the team should be built.”

The highest-rated players are brought in for meetings with owner Dan Snyder, Gibbs and other organization members. A meal is arranged as a final effort to find any nugget of new information....Snyder, Gibbs and Cerrato also will meet during this period to review how well certain prospects might fit in the organization.

Gibbs is holding several days of talks with owner Dan Snyder about the direction of the team. The coach said he’s “willing to talk about anything,” but he called “incorrect” any assumptions that he was open to hiring a general manager or that he would change the team’s aggressive approach in making offseason moves.

“[Johnson’s workout] was really impressive,” Snyder said. “We’ve had dinner with 25 of the first-round picks, and we tried to cover as much ground as we could in a limited amount of time.”

I don't even need to comment on each one individually. It speaks for itself. Dan's philosophy was given the green light by Gibbs and Gibbs refused to deviate from Dan's plan... Those are Gibbs words.

[SkinsJock]

I think that Gibbs wanted to try and make a go of it here and thought (or was persuaded by Snyder) that he (and Cerrato) would support Joe in everything and anything he (Joe) wanted to do

I think in the end (or maybe from day 1) Gibbs realized that being the HC was one thing but trying to make a decent meal without the correct ingredients was NOT going to happen
AND that he had put himself in the position of working with 2 idiots that had no clue by stating that "it was the way to go"


Shanahan wanted to be the HC here and he told Snyder that the franchise needed a GM and Allen would be a good one no matter who the HC was but it also set him (Mike) up to become the HC

Snyder apparently (and it certainly looks like it) has stayed away from really being involved although I'm sure that he's kept up to speed by Allen & Shanahan - we have not seen any evidence to the contrary

Mike has made some bad mistakes but he's also resisted bringing in players like Peppers and others that Snyder might have brought in - Mike has changed many things here and EVERYONE is now accountable and has to earn their roster spot - even then, holding onto that roster spot is not a given

The culture and atitude here is very different than it used to be

Bruce and Mike have done well considering where they started - the only REALLY BIG disapointment being that they don't have a young, future great QB - that is PRIMARILY because there was not one out there that in Mike & Bruce's view was worth taking a shot at

Bruce & Mike understand how important it is to get that QB but they will not stop building or take a chance - the top talented draft picks are just TOO important to this franchise going forward

We need to keep building and not take ANY shortcuts like Dumb & Dumber did here for 10 years +

[SkinsJock]

Why is it so important to take advantage of having the # 6 pick in the draft this year - we need to maximize all of our draft picks and if the players available are not that critical then we should trade down - by all means grab a very talented player at a position of need if he's available ...
we should always be looking to trade down if we can add talented players instead of just 1

I fully expect that this draft plan that was used last year to get a bunch of good prospects in here will be used again

[The Hogster]

Brandon Weeden is tearing it up at the Senior Bowl.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... aft-status

[Deadskins]

Chris was only pointing out that what happened in Denver has nothing to do with what is going on here

Gibbs was a helluva HC with a great group behind him in Cassely and Beathard - when he came back his FO was Snyder & Cerrato

He should have recognized that Dumb & Dumber were not going to give him a chance to do what he did so well

Mike & Bruce are getting things back in order here and have positioned this club well

we need to stick with the plan and not fall into the trap of trading away high draft picks like Snyder would do

We need Dan Snyder to stay away from offering advice about how to draft or acquire players - we have seen that nightmare

As usual, I disagree with you, SJ.
The difference between Gibbs I and Gibbs II was that Gibbs II did more of the shopping for the groceries than did Gibbs I. Beathard and Casserly (to a lesser extent), aquired players, and Gibbs I coached them up. Gibbs II said I want this guy, and The Danny and Cerrato made it happen. Not that they couldn't have messed it up just fine on their own, but Gibbs II was much more like what we have today, in that Mike evaluates the talent and Bruce makes it happen. Mike is just a better talent evaluator than Gibbs was, while Joe was a better coach than Mike is, IMO.

[SkinsJock]

I'll agree with part of that

OR ... if I was someone else - I cannot agree with part of that

Gibbs I was a different era - Gibbs II was still a good coach but different requirements - it required him to do more than coach PLUS he was not in step with the game - todays NFL was VERY different for him, and he still did well

Gibbs is an NFL coaching legend - Mike is a very good coach but I doubt he will ever be held in the same high regard


He's doing a good job getting this franchise back though and he does deserve credit for that

The NFL today has evolved a lot and Mike prepared well for this job with his time off - I hope he gets to finish what he's started here

Mike & Bruce have to find a free agent QB, coach him up, add some key players and help him become a decent QB here PLUS find a young QB that can be great here for years to come

we can be good this year but ....

[riggofan]

Gibbs I was a different era - Gibbs II was still a good coach but different requirements - it required him to do more than coach PLUS he was not in step with the game - todays NFL was VERY different for him, and he still did well

The biggest difference between his two coaching stints was free agency.

[riggofan]

Brandon Weeden is tearing it up at the Senior Bowl.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... aft-status

Probably not what you're looking for in a franchise QB because of his age. But he could be as good or better an option as somebody like Matt Flynn.

[spudstr04]

My off-season QB predictions:

Peyton Manning (if healthy): Cardinals (Kurt Warner pt. II)

Matt Flynn: Dolphins (New coach has ties to GB)

Kyle Orton: Browns (I think he could succeed with the Holmgren offense)

RGIII: Redskins (Trade our 1st, 2nd, one of our 4th rounders, and next year's 2nd)

Rex Grossman: Redskins (re-signed as the vet back-up)


I also could see the Skins trading back into late 1st round to draft Tannehill, or another QB that might rise during pre-draft workouts. Overall though, I think this will be the year we get our Franchise QB we have lacked.

[Deadskins]

My off-season QB predictions:

Peyton Manning (if healthy): Cardinals (Kurt Warner pt. II)

Matt Flynn: Dolphins (New coach has ties to GB)

Kyle Orton: Browns (I think he could succeed with the Holmgren offense)

RGIII: Redskins (Trade our 1st, 2nd, one of our 4th rounders, and next year's 2nd)

Rex Grossman: Redskins (re-signed as the vet back-up)


I also could see the Skins trading back into late 1st round to draft Tannehill, or another QB that might rise during pre-draft workouts. Overall though, I think this will be the year we get our Franchise QB we have lacked.

The questin is: Do we need to trade up if those other teams get their QBs through FA? It's possible RGIII could fall to us at #6, if those three FAs go the way you predicted.

[CanesSkins26]

My off-season QB predictions:

Peyton Manning (if healthy): Cardinals (Kurt Warner pt. II)

Matt Flynn: Dolphins (New coach has ties to GB)

Kyle Orton: Browns (I think he could succeed with the Holmgren offense)

RGIII: Redskins (Trade our 1st, 2nd, one of our 4th rounders, and next year's 2nd)

Rex Grossman: Redskins (re-signed as the vet back-up)


I also could see the Skins trading back into late 1st round to draft Tannehill, or another QB that might rise during pre-draft workouts. Overall though, I think this will be the year we get our Franchise QB we have lacked.

The questin is: Do we need to trade up if those other teams get their QBs through FA? It's possible RGIII could fall to us at #6, if those three FAs go the way you predicted.

Seattle needs a qb also. Highly doubtful that there is any scenario (unless RG III tanks in all of his workouts) under which he falls to #6.

[Deadskins]

My off-season QB predictions:

Peyton Manning (if healthy): Cardinals (Kurt Warner pt. II)

Matt Flynn: Dolphins (New coach has ties to GB)

Kyle Orton: Browns (I think he could succeed with the Holmgren offense)

RGIII: Redskins (Trade our 1st, 2nd, one of our 4th rounders, and next year's 2nd)

Rex Grossman: Redskins (re-signed as the vet back-up)


I also could see the Skins trading back into late 1st round to draft Tannehill, or another QB that might rise during pre-draft workouts. Overall though, I think this will be the year we get our Franchise QB we have lacked.

The questin is: Do we need to trade up if those other teams get their QBs through FA? It's possible RGIII could fall to us at #6, if those three FAs go the way you predicted.

Seattle needs a qb also. Highly doubtful that there is any scenario (unless RG III tanks in all of his workouts) under which he falls to #6.

Where does Seattle pick right now? The teams in front of us might want to use their picks instead of trading them away.

[spudstr04]

My off-season QB predictions:

Peyton Manning (if healthy): Cardinals (Kurt Warner pt. II)

Matt Flynn: Dolphins (New coach has ties to GB)

Kyle Orton: Browns (I think he could succeed with the Holmgren offense)

RGIII: Redskins (Trade our 1st, 2nd, one of our 4th rounders, and next year's 2nd)

Rex Grossman: Redskins (re-signed as the vet back-up)


I also could see the Skins trading back into late 1st round to draft Tannehill, or another QB that might rise during pre-draft workouts. Overall though, I think this will be the year we get our Franchise QB we have lacked.

The questin is: Do we need to trade up if those other teams get their QBs through FA? It's possible RGIII could fall to us at #6, if those three FAs go the way you predicted.

Seattle needs a qb also. Highly doubtful that there is any scenario (unless RG III tanks in all of his workouts) under which he falls to #6.

Where does Seattle pick right now? The teams in front of us might want to use their picks instead of trading them away.

Seattle chooses 12th. I could see them sticking with Tavaris and rolling with a heavy running game with Marshawn, they were a hot team at the end of the year. I have a feeling that Carroll will wait to get Barkley next year.

Okay, editing because I looked it up. They were hot by Redskins' standards - (5-3 in the final 8 games)

[GoSkins]

Chris was only pointing out that what happened in Denver has nothing to do with what is going on here

Gibbs was a helluva HC with a great group behind him in Cassely and Beathard - when he came back his FO was Snyder & Cerrato

He should have recognized that Dumb & Dumber were not going to give him a chance to do what he did so well

Mike & Bruce are getting things back in order here and have positioned this club well
R
we need to stick with the plan and not fall into the trap of trading away high draft picks like Snyder would do

We need Dan Snyder to stay away from offering advice about how to draft or acquire players - we have seen that nightmare

Gibbs did realize Dumb and Dumber were a disaster. That's why, in my opinion, he unexpectedly resigned.

And you don't think his Grandson having cancer wasn't the biggest reason. You are entitled to your opinion, but IMHO you are completely off base. That isn't the type of guy Gibbs is.

I didn't say Dumb and Dumber was the only or biggest reason for his resignation. Just that it was a reason.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Sucks reading all this Gibs I vs Gobs II bickering. I thought I made a strong case for taking RG and how trading *up IS different from the Snyder controlled skins.. I also failed to mention its something Shanny HAS done and at this time we need RG more then Denver needed Cutler.

I wish some of the nay sayers would address my points vs burying it in that boring Gibbs arguement.

(ahem) SJ (ahem) break it up quote me show me how I'm wrong?

[KazooSkinsFan]

We then handed the keys to Zorn who wasn't ready for the job and then Danny did do what you say he did under Gibbs, though so far have nothing to back it up with.

So I have no proof that Snyder was meddling when Gibbs was here? Ok...


All from the mouth of Joe Jackson Gibbs...

“The three of us [Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato] normally at the end of it try and come up with a final game plan for the draft....Dan’s philosophy is to be aggressive. We fall in the category of being more aggressive and it’s based on Dan being as aggressive as he is.”

“We talk a lot. We are back and forth all the time. We work down the hall from one another. I count on his opinion. He’s very instrumental on the draft, the salary-cap, free agency, strategy on how the team should be built.”

The highest-rated players are brought in for meetings with owner Dan Snyder, Gibbs and other organization members. A meal is arranged as a final effort to find any nugget of new information....Snyder, Gibbs and Cerrato also will meet during this period to review how well certain prospects might fit in the organization.

Gibbs is holding several days of talks with owner Dan Snyder about the direction of the team. The coach said he’s “willing to talk about anything,” but he called “incorrect” any assumptions that he was open to hiring a general manager or that he would change the team’s aggressive approach in making offseason moves.

“[Johnson’s workout] was really impressive,” Snyder said. “We’ve had dinner with 25 of the first-round picks, and we tried to cover as much ground as we could in a limited amount of time.”

I don't even need to comment on each one individually. It speaks for itself. Dan's philosophy was given the green light by Gibbs and Gibbs refused to deviate from Dan's plan... Those are Gibbs words.

I said before he appeared to talk to Danny more then Shannahan does. But the only thing in any of your quotes that he did anything Danny said was he was more "aggressive." Pretty non-specific and the rest is fully explained by managing your manager. Do you know what managing your manager means? Every quote falls squarely in that. He says how he talked to Danny, how Danny was part of the process, but none of them say Danny overruled him or he even seriously considered his opinions on players.

[SkinsJock]

I'm not into anything about Gibbs 1 vrs Gibbs II - Gibbs is one of the best to ever coach in the NFL



My point about all this is that despite whatever anyone did in the past, these guys are looking at this stituation right here, right now - AND, right now, Bruce & Mike ARE SOLELY in charge here and they have shown that they will help get this franchise back into contending for the playoffs each and every year by building this franchise through the draft

they are NOT trading up for RGIII - if we can get him at the # 6 spot AND IF they really, really like him, they will take him

we need to keep building this franchise and we are not giving up 3 or 4 top 60 players in the next 2 drafts to get RGIII

[Kilmer72]

How do you know for sure that the Skins wont trade up?

[riggofan]

How do you know for sure that the Skins wont trade up?

You have to insert your own "In my opinion" in front of every thing SkinsJock writes.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

In YOUR opinion..
Not supported by ANY facts.
Shanny has traded *UP and down to get his guy.
RGIII fits the profile for QBs he likes *mobile athletic not short accurate good long ball
Shanny doesn't have a Vet to start while grooming a later round qb pick
Free Agency qbs aren't anyone I'd hang my hat on.. Who u like? Orton?
Shanny has done a great job- but another losing record might be his last.
He wants to finish what he started ya?
Bringing in the ( imo best qb in the draft in years suck luck RG is a G) best qb we can will surely help his cause
If we perform better at qb as well as add pieces in FA we should be beasts of the east and not a losing team. How is RGIII not the answer?

[elprez19]

I am a believer that if shanny and Bruce think RG3 is a franchise QB then well... they will get him. If its trades, draft picks or whatever brilliant plan they come up with that will not affect our current track to GREATNESS. There is no way in hell that shanny passes up a "FRANCHISE" QB just because they cant afford to give up a couple picks. No one has any FACTS about the QB situation or the draft. To say that we wont trade up a couple picks to secure a potential stud is absurd. I think mike and kyle were embarrassed this year and are not gonna go through it again with underachieving qb play. Im not saying we will trade up but its definetly not out of the realm of possibilities and I would welcome RG3 after all these years of a carousel of inept qbs. Now is the time, we can fix our offense dramatically this year between the draft and FA.

[SkinsJock]

EVERY post here is that person's opinion

These guys have resisted the quick fix and will do the same thing they did last draft

Mike has admitted that the process of re-making this franchise took him by surprise and was a bigger project than he first thought
after the first year this FO has settled down and gone to the draft and trying to get our average age down

They have some work left to do - they will continue the process of trading down as much as possible and still adding talented players at positions of need


good job guys - keep up the good work



trade down I say - we need more talented players