RGIII

welch · Post by **welch** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:05 pm

The team could be helped by drafting RG3, but there is no way to know, in late December 2011, if RG3 will be available when the Redskins draft.

If I had my wish, Sonny would be 38 again...

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:39 am

actually welch - Sonny could still be a better option for the Redskins ... this week :wink:

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:38 pm

I doubt RGIII falls to our pick.

Still in mild shock we didn't pick up Ryan Mallett last draft. We had the ability to pick him up much lower than his talent level would project and we still passed.

If we move up to get RGIII, it's all moot, but I think we've won our way out of that possibility.

Burgundy&Wha? · Post by **Burgundy&Wha?** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:55 pm

Watching the Alamo Bowl right now. From what I've seen of RG III, I'm sold. He has the arm. He has a good release. He has the accuracy. He has the mobility. And most important to me, he has the character to be a leader. Go get him. Worth the price.

jmooney · Post by **jmooney** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:37 am

Here's some food for debate-

Say we dont give away picks to jump up and grab Luck or RGIII

It could be possible that Russel Wilson drops to the second round. Similar in athletic ability and playstyle to RGIII. He's a bit smaller and that seems to be the big issue with the guy. I watched some footage on this guy. he stands taller in the pocket than his height would indicate. I didnt see many batted balls or any vision problems. And we all know Wisconsin likes HUGE linemen.

Hes a local guy out of Richmond, Va. Currently playing at Wisconsin, so he's faced NFL caliber talent throughout his season.

If we could grab a stud O-lineman or corner first round, trade down, get extra picks. and MAYBE grab this guy in the second.

RGIII may be too much of a reach, Miami's GM was at the game last night AND he's Baylor alumni.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:49 am

This thread is about RGIII - he's got all the ability - not sure how excited Mike & Kyle are about the 'style'

This kid's background and all reports indicate a very smart, very determined, team oriented player

Andrew Luck is the best QB to come out for many years - RGIII is going to play QB very well

The cost to get Luck may be a little much

Having RGIII be the Redskins' QB for the next 10-12 years would be a HUGE PLUS - and a nightmare for the NFC EAST

this kid will put excitement into any offense, even Kyle's

jr_uscg · Post by **jr_uscg** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:00 am

I'm sold on RGIII, I would even move up the draft. Maybe throw in a second or a third to move up in position. If we Don't make a move on him, I say move back in the draft. What would you give to have him in the draft. I heard that Andrew Luck could be worth three first round picks, thats insane, no player is worth three first rounds.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:15 pm

jr_uscg wrote:I'm sold on RGIII, I would even move up the draft. Maybe throw in a second or a third to move up in position. If we Don't make a move on him, I say move back in the draft. What would you give to have him in the draft. I heard that Andrew Luck could be worth three first round picks, thats insane, no player is worth three first rounds.

Really? You don't think Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, in their prime, are worth three first round picks? You think that, for example, Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, and Trent Williams, all first round picks, are more valuable together than a franchise quarterback?

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:26 pm

jr_uscg wrote:I'm sold on RGIII, I would even move up the draft. Maybe throw in a second or a third to move up in position. If we Don't make a move on him, I say move back in the draft. What would you give to have him in the draft. I heard that Andrew Luck could be worth three first round picks, thats insane, no player is worth three first rounds.

If you could get Luck for 3 #1s .... it would be a steal, provided that he live up to expectations. I think it will take more to get him from Indy ... maybe 4. If the Rams get the 1st pick, then 3 might do it. EVERYONE needing a QB will be willing to put up 2 #1s for Luck, so the minimum deal will be 3.

Now, with that said, and considering how much I'm sold on Luck, and less sold on RGIII .... the most cost effective avenue, and the more likely scenario has Indy taking Luck, and the Rams trading the #2 pick to whom ever the highest bidder is for RGIII.

The question is, is RGIII worth 2 or 3 #1's ? Some GMs like him as much as they do Luck, so the biding for him might even reach 3 #1s ?

I'd consider giving up 2 #1s for RGIII ... but not 3, because there is a steeper learning curve for RGIII and more risk of him transitioning from a college spread offense to the pro set. I'd rather give 4 for Luck, because he's ready to learn the playbook, rather than both the position and playbook.

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:49 pm

For me, his stock went down after last night's Alamo Bowl/basketball game.

He showed nice touch on a couple of deep throws, but missed another on an overthrow when the WR was open by 1.5 steps.

He was accurate on underneath/intermediate routes. As has been stated by others, he gets alot of yardage from YAC after short completions.

He definitely holds the ball too long, even at the college level. The strip-sack was Rex-like.

He has spindly legs and is a big injury risk at the next level, especially if he continues to hold the ball.

He was completely overshadowed by Price, who put up videogame stats with a lesser supporting cast.

After this game, it's hard to endorse RGIII as a top 10 pick. I'm now firmly in the camp of giving up whatever is necessary to obtain Luck.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:18 pm

There's no question that RGIII is going to go in the top 5 - none

FACT IS - you're going to have to give up a lot for the guy - as good as he's going to be - it's going to take time

this FO should consider giving up a lot for Luck, not so sure about RGIII
although ..... when you're in as deep a hole as we are

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:24 pm

SkinsJock wrote:There's no question that RGIII is going to go in the top 5 - none

True. Somebody will overpay. I just hope it isn't the Redskins.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:46 pm

absinthe1023 wrote:For me, his stock went down after last night's Alamo Bowl/basketball game.

He showed nice touch on a couple of deep throws, but missed another on an overthrow when the WR was open by 1.5 steps.

He was accurate on underneath/intermediate routes. As has been stated by others, he gets alot of yardage from YAC after short completions.

He definitely holds the ball too long, even at the college level. The strip-sack was Rex-like.

He has spindly legs and is a big injury risk at the next level, especially if he continues to hold the ball.

He was completely overshadowed by Price, who put up videogame stats with a lesser supporting cast.

After this game, it's hard to endorse RGIII as a top 10 pick. I'm now firmly in the camp of giving up whatever is necessary to obtain Luck.

I agree with you ... and that is exactly what I've been saying all along.

I do think RGIII has significant potential to become a very good QB in the NFL ... but will take some time to develop that. Nevertheless, he'll be picked in the top 5 due to he and Luck being the two best QBs on the board, and too many teams needing QBs.

Now, I wouldn't change my opinion of him due to his performance in one game, particularly given all of the distractions surrounding him. It's way too easy for a kid to get caught up in the emotions and distractions of winning the Heisman, as well as the discussions about entering the draft, dulling the mental focus in a Bowl game.

I think he's the same guy he was before the game ... a very athletic and dynamic player with some question marks about how that will translate to the NFL. And he's always been a bubble screen demon with the short throws, which tend to make stats look better than they might actually be. That coupled with his scrambling ability, and perhaps lessor quality defensive pressure, makes him more successful at the college level than he can expect to achieve in the NFL, thereby making him a much higher bust risk than Andrew Luck.

My fear is that because the Redskins need a QB so badly, they're going to target him and give up too much to get him, simply because they aren't going to be willing to pay the price for luck.

That's why I say, heck with the price .... make up your mind to pry that #1 pick out of whoever's hands it lands this weekend, and take the surer thing in Luck. He's ready, he's going to be good. There are no big question marks about Luck ... and the Shanaclan cannot afford (nor can the Redskins) another "miscalculation" about QB talent.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:56 pm

Although I think Barkley is a better fit for this offense, I am all in favor of drafting RG3. He is the kind of game changer that the Eagles, Giants, & Cowboys D Coordinators are going to have to focus very hard on stopping.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
If you could get Luck for 3 #1s .... it would be a steal, provided that he live up to expectations. I think it will take more to get him from Indy ... maybe 4. If the Rams get the 1st pick, then 3 might do it. EVERYONE needing a QB will be willing to put up 2 #1s for Luck, so the minimum deal will be 3.

I would point out that not all first round picks are created equal... the #7 pick this year has FAR more value than the #27 pick...

Now, with that said, and considering how much I'm sold on Luck, and less sold on RGIII .... the most cost effective avenue, and the more likely scenario has Indy taking Luck, and the Rams trading the #2 pick to whom ever the highest bidder is for RGIII.

The question is, is RGIII worth 2 or 3 #1's ? Some GMs like him as much as they do Luck, so the biding for him might even reach 3 #1s ?

I'd consider giving up 2 #1s for RGIII ... but not 3, because there is a steeper learning curve for RGIII and more risk of him transitioning from a college spread offense to the pro set. I'd rather give 4 for Luck, because he's ready to learn the playbook, rather than both the position and playbook.

I suspect that RGIII will cost 2 #1's... 2 #1's and a 2 this year, if Cleveland wants to throw down. I simply don't see us affording to get Luck, no matter who is in what draft order at 1 & 2. If the Rams are at #1, they are going to make a fortune... much bigger than the Ricky Williams or Hershel Walker deals... it will blow those away.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:10 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
jr_uscg wrote:I'm sold on RGIII, I would even move up the draft. Maybe throw in a second or a third to move up in position. If we Don't make a move on him, I say move back in the draft. What would you give to have him in the draft. I heard that Andrew Luck could be worth three first round picks, thats insane, no player is worth three first rounds.

Really? You don't think Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, in their prime, are worth three first round picks? You think that, for example, Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, and Trent Williams, all first round picks, are more valuable together than a franchise quarterback?

I think when he says "no player" he's talking about someone that is yet to be drafted and so someone who hasn't proven their NFL worth.

I disagree with him, because I do think 3 #1s is a fine price to pay for drafting Luck. (Don't know about 4 #1s, but if forced to choose I might lean for, not against.)

However, it is unfair to take the sure studs of the last quarter century and then compare them to random, sometimes poor #1 picks. I could use the same argument to claim that Luck is worth 100 first round picks, though presumably you wouldn't agree with that.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:28 pm

^ yup... Tom Brady is the perfect example... in the 2000 Draft, he was deemed to be worth the 199th pick. Period. 'Cane's crystal ball was not yet in existence. You can only go by what you see in front of you... Remember, Ryan Leaf was considered by many to be more worthy of the #1 pick than your other noted quarterback...

Be that as it may, I'd also disagree... 2 first round picks would be a hell of a bargain to get Luck... even 3 would be worth the price. I just don't see us paying it.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:32 pm

I don't think Indy will trade the pick for 3 #1s. They of all teams know the value of a Peyton Manning type QB, right? Particularly after this past season. I'm betting that they plan to take Luck unless somebody makes a offer too good to turn down ... like 4 #1s. So for Luck to be available for 3 #1s ... Indy needs to win this weekend, and the Rams lose. The Rams would trade for 3 #1s.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:40 pm

RayNAustin wrote:I don't think Indy will trade the pick for 3 #1s. They of all teams know the value of a Peyton Manning type QB, right? Particularly after this past season. I'm betting that they plan to take Luck unless somebody makes a offer too good to turn down ... like 4 #1s. So for Luck to be available for 3 #1s ... Indy needs to win this weekend, and the Rams lose. The Rams would trade for 3 #1s.

The Colts may, if it drops them no lower than Cleveland's pick... which would allow them to still get RGIII. If you could get an excellent quarterback, plus 2 other #1 picks from Cleveland, for the cost of Luck... you wouldn't do it? I would, in a second. First of all, it's Cleveland... next year's # 1 is likely to be a top 5 pick, even with Luck. Plus, it's looking like they will have Manning back for next year, so there is no rush. For us, however, it would probably cost 4 #1's to pry Luck from Indy... in other words... ain't happening.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:35 pm

Countertrey wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:I don't think Indy will trade the pick for 3 #1s. They of all teams know the value of a Peyton Manning type QB, right? Particularly after this past season. I'm betting that they plan to take Luck unless somebody makes a offer too good to turn down ... like 4 #1s. So for Luck to be available for 3 #1s ... Indy needs to win this weekend, and the Rams lose. The Rams would trade for 3 #1s.

The Colts may, if it drops them no lower than Cleveland's pick... which would allow them to still get RGIII. If you could get an excellent quarterback, plus 2 other #1 picks from Cleveland, for the cost of Luck... you wouldn't do it? I would, in a second. First of all, it's Cleveland... next year's # 1 is likely to be a top 5 pick, even with Luck. Plus, it's looking like they will have Manning back for next year, so there is no rush. For us, however, it would probably cost 4 #1's to pry Luck from Indy... in other words... ain't happening.

I hear ya ... and that's possible .... but two problems here.

1) RGIII isn't going to fall to 5 .... if Indy deals the #1 .... the Rams are just as likely to deal the #2 to another QB hungry team. Of course, Indy might be considering Barkley as a next year pick, with Peyton still having a couple of years left in the tank.

2) The Browns need a lot, and a mega deal of 3 or 4 1's would delay their their rebuilding. And though McCoy isn't necessarily their long term answer at QB, who really knows what he could do with something better than JV talent help? The Browns might make a reasonable decision to live with McCoy longer as they address their many other offensive needs, because frankly, they have nothing on offense. Ditching McCoy and bringing in Luck would still leave them with receivers that can't play ... they can't get open and they can't catch. And an Offensive Coordinator that should be demoted to water boy. The fact is, McCoy was destined to be a project, but was forced into playing last year as a rookie, and he's not been BAD BAD ... he's looked good on occasions and bad. He has NO HELP. None.

And the way he's been battered, with lousy receivers dropping balls, and a play caller who ought to be fired ... the kid has not had a decent hearing.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:58 pm

I agree... I think there's a lot more to McCoy than he's been allowed by the incompetence that surrounds him... But will he get the chance to work with decent talent, or will panic rule the decision making process in their front office?

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:55 pm

We saw a different game.

absinthe1023 wrote:For me, his stock went down after last night's Alamo Bowl/basketball game.

For me, his stock went up.

absinthe1023 wrote:He showed nice touch on a couple of deep throws, but missed another on an overthrow when the WR was open by 1.5 steps.

Oh yeah. He did overthrow ONE deep ball by about a 1/2 step. Golly. Stock down, bro. Luck never did that. Neither has Brady.

absinthe1023 wrote:He was accurate on underneath/intermediate routes. As has been stated by others, he gets alot of yardage from YAC after short completions.

That happens when you hit guys in stride.

absinthe1023 wrote:He definitely holds the ball too long, even at the college level. The strip-sack was Rex-like.

On the instantly collapsed pocket when he got hammered? Yeah. That was the only play all night that bothered me even a little. How about when Rex would have been sacked or strip sacked but instead RGIII escaped (at his goal line) and hit a guy 20 yards away on the run in the hands with a bullet and the other one where he ran for a 30 yard TD? I'll remember how un-Rex-like those were way more than the one fumble.

absinthe1023 wrote:He has spindly legs and is a big injury risk at the next level, especially if he continues to hold the ball.

I guess legs bigger than Rex's look spindly when you're 6' 2", 220# and extremely fit. I saw him release quickly many times and wait many times. I thought his pocket awareness was generally excellent.

absinthe1023 wrote:He was completely overshadowed by Price, who put up videogame stats with a lesser supporting cast.

Yes. We definitely saw a different game. I think "completely overshadowed" is a horrible mis-characterization.

absinthe1023 wrote:After this game, it's hard to endorse RGIII as a top 10 pick. I'm now firmly in the camp of giving up whatever is necessary to obtain Luck.

I'm definitely in a different camp.

Nothing personal. We just disagree big-time. I saw a guy throwing darts into guys hands at pad level from all angles and positions repeatedly. I saw a guy stand in there and deliver in a muddy pocket repeatedly. I saw a guy take off in the right direction almost every time when he got in trouble and then throw almost every time. I saw a guy finally run when he had to and do it dynamically. I saw a guy maybe make 2 mistakes in 100 chances. One was a fumble and another fell incomplete. On the flip side I saw about 3 dozen big plays ... and 67 points. I saw a guy run for a 30 yard TD when the following guys would almost definitely have been sacked: Grossman, Stafford, Brees, Ryan, Freeman, Smith, Bradford, Kolb, Brady, Sanchez, Moore, Fitzpatrick, Flacco, McCoy, Dalton, Hasselbeck, Orlovsky, Gabbert, Schaub, Palmer, Orton, and Rivers.

I saw a tremendous combination of accuracy and athleticism as well as intellect, awareness, and football smarts.

Respectfully,

DarthMonk

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:42 pm

I think Luck is better today than RG III. I think Luck will be a better Pro QB than RG III. I'd pay up big time to get Luck. I would not do so for RG III.

jr_uscg · Post by **jr_uscg** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:57 pm

Shanny wants Griffin, he fits the mold. A mobile QB just like Elway and Jake the Snake. This guy would be deadly in the redzone. More touch downs and less missed field goals by Gano. RGIII could put us on top of the east. Let's be honest, it's been a long time since we have had a fanchise QB. We need to pull the trigger on this draft pick and I'm sure Shanny will have his poker face on the whole time.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:58 pm

jr_uscg wrote:Shanny wants Griffin, he fits the mold. A mobile QB just like Elway and Jake the Snake.

whoa there, settle down - RGIII is good but he's not even close to Elway type of good

AND ... Andrew Luck is a VERY special kind of good QB - not the same

we need a QB ... but .... we also can be very special without giving up the farm

I'd love to get Luck but we don't have to give up a whole lot to get RGIII