Quarterback, would you rather...

[frankcal20]

We need a QB in a major way.

There arent going to be good prospects like this for a while. Look we wont have an oppurtunity like this again for a long while. Who comes out next year? Just Matt Barkley who in my opinion is not as good as RG3 or Luck.
Peyton Manning may also be had for the right price.


So for me there are three options. Since its highly likely that Indy will get the first pick and take Luck. I am looking to trade up and take RG3. Our best hopes are the Rams end up with the second pick. If the Vikings end up with the second pick I am almost certain they take RG3 even with Ponder already there. So if Rams are the second pick I make a reasonable offer to them for the second pick.

If all the above mentioned does not happen. Well I make an effort to aquire Peyton Manning. Conditional on him passing a through examination and physical. Manning if aquired would be a two three year solution. But put it this way Manning would almost automatically make us SuperBowl contenders. Seriously think about that. Peyton Manning is already proven compared to rolling the dice with draft picks.

So Peyton Manning would not be a long term solution but we have a shot at the Lombardi for at least two to three years if he stays healthy.

So I think its highly likely we will come away with a QB some time soon. Remember we gave up a second round pick to get Mcnabb not too long ago. What do you think Shanny would give for Manning? Its all very real believe me it is.

I am almost certain we come away with a new QB this upcoming year.

My first choice is RG3. My second choice is Manning. Based on my opinion that Luck is almost certainly a Colt. Even then I would still take RG3 over Luck. I like Griff that much.

Let me tell you why we won't have Manning. #1 - he isn't going to change the offense he's ran for 17 years. #2 - Shanny isn't going to change the offense he's run for many years. #3 - Will most likely cost just as much to acquire Manning as it would do draft Luck.

Take a stab at Flynn who is schooled in the WCO. Draft a QB in the first few rounds and do it like the better teams do. Good scouting.

[SkinsJock]

TO ANYONE - Please explain how we trade up without giving up continuing to build this team

don't try and explain ANYTHING else

just explain how this franchise can continue to build upon what has started to be very obvious

WE ARE A LOT BETTER OFF BY NOT TRADING ANY DRAFT PICKS

We have only had 2 drafts with this FO


OKAY - just explain how we continue to get better - AND WE ARE GETTING BETTER - without giving up draft picks




OR JUST SHUT UP - and go find a fantasy football roster to play with
bunch of retards

[1niksder]

You want to trade a 3rd round pick for Matt Leinart? The same Matt Leinart who has started a total of 2 games over the past 4 seasons and who has a virtually identical career qb rating as Rex, and who has 15 career tds and 20 ints?

At the very most... I'd like to give up a 4th and maybe a 4th in the following draft. Nothing more than a 3rd at most and I wouldn't be totally elated about that.

But IMHO, Matt has more upside than Rex. I think he can still be molded, could still grow and be put in a better situation.

At best Leinart is worth a 5th or 6th rounder. Not only does he generally suck, but he's got a season ending injury to boot.

I'd trade the pick they got from the Vikings for McNabb

[Warmother]

If a top rated QB is not there, then you take the best player available.

I think the price for Luck will be to steep. Anything more than 2, 1st and a couple of lower picks is to high IMHO.
Somebody like Tannehill or Nick Foles will probably be there later in the draft.
While neither of these guy's may start at the begining of the year, who knows if they don't become our Tom Brady.

[welch]

TO ANYONE - Please explain how we trade up without giving up continuing to build this team

don't try and explain ANYTHING else

just explain how this franchise can continue to build upon what has started to be very obvious

WE ARE A LOT BETTER OFF BY NOT TRADING ANY DRAFT PICKS

We have only had 2 drafts with this FO


OKAY - just explain how we continue to get better - AND WE ARE GETTING BETTER - without giving up draft picks




OR JUST SHUT UP - and go find a fantasy football roster to play with
bunch of retards

Right.

There is no way to trade up for RG3 and still improve...unless the scouts find magic in the lower rounds. That hasn't happened since, roughly, Charles Mann.

[Redskin in Canada]

To work it's got to be the right fit. What do you see that makes you think that he would fit with Shanny?

I hate to take credit for an ANALYSIS that it is not mine. A number of writers can be found to support this possibility.

[SkinsJock]

I apologise for getting my knickers all bunched up


I'm just as frustrated as anyone here and a little disapointed at the current QB crop coming out


that being said - we should have a little more faith that these guys will continue to make the right personnel calls here

They have made some mistakes but we are much improved from where we were December 2009


we are not far off from seeing a consistently competitive product and this FO understands how critical the QB is here

let's continue to build around the players we have - these guys will find a way
how hard can it be to put a QB on the field that can do a better job than Grossman - if we can't get a future really good prospect then we should continue to build - we have a number of areas of need and depth is a really good thing

[Red_One43]

To work it's got to be the right fit. What do you see that makes you think that he would fit with Shanny?

I hate to take credit for an ANALYSIS that it is not mine. A number of writers can be found to support this possibility.

I was more looking for - he have the skill set that Shanny looks for - strong arm, extend plays with his feet, etc, but if it happens - you posted it here - you (and a couple of others) get the credit for calling it as far as I am concerned - no doubt he is the best "available" FA QB (Brees is not available). I wuld bet that he is someone that Shanny has at least explored. He has got to be better than Grossman.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Last year, the Redskins desperately needed a quarterback. When their pick came up, Blaine Gabbert was available, instead, they traded down and got Ryan Kerrigan...

Say that scenario comes up next April. There's a QB there for the taking but someone else is on the board that could help. Would you rather we reach on a QB or draft the best available?

The answer's pretty apparent inside your question, isn't it?

[frankcal20]

Lots of folks think that we'll get a chance to see Matt Flynn play these final two games. If you get a chance, check out the Packers if they're winning in the game.

[RayNAustin]

TO ANYONE - Please explain how we trade up without giving up continuing to build this team

don't try and explain ANYTHING else

OKAY ... let me try to explain it to you this way. Take the top contenders for a Championship in the NFL, and tell us what they all have in common? That's your first clue.

Now, look back and consider the majority of teams who have won Super Bowls and tell us what they all HAD in common? That's the second clue.

And finally, look back at the Redskins history for the past 20 years, and tell us what is the one thing we haven't had. This ought to be enough clues.

We've had several coaches. We've had the return of Joe Gibbs. We've drafted plenty of players. We've retooled O-lines and D-lines and picked up corner backs and safeties .. and receivers and running backs and more coaches. We've brought in the Brad Johnsons and the Mark Brunnels and the Jeff Georges and we even drafted a QB in the first round ... a player with "Potential". You know ... they guy that didn't quite set the world on fire, but had some of the skills that might make a good QB ... and all we needed to do is "fill in" the few holes .... like understanding defenses and remembering to step up in the pocket and learn how to play under center in a pro style offense!! And we wasted FIVE YEARS on that little project while adding other players we thought would hide his flaws. DIDN'T WORK, DID IT? NO it did not.

So what do we do? We get McNabb, and that didn't work. We get Grossman and that didn't work. And the geniuses grabbed Beck and that blew up in their faces. So yeah ... lets do more of that? I don't think so.

just explain how this franchise can continue to build upon what has started to be very obvious

WE ARE A LOT BETTER OFF BY NOT TRADING ANY DRAFT PICKS

We have only had 2 drafts with this FO

OKAY - just explain how we continue to get better - AND WE ARE GETTING BETTER - without giving up draft picks

OR JUST SHUT UP - and go find a fantasy football roster to play with
bunch of retards

Why don't you go get your own board, and then you can decide what others are allowed to say and believe?

The fact is, I understand what you are saying, but you are living in the past. No one is advocating trading draft picks for someone else's used to be star players ... we're talking about trading up to draft what we desperately need and have needed for a LONG TIME.

The reality is, if you want to build a Championship team, you need a championship caliber QB . P E R I O D. There is no way around that equation. All of the Championship caliber teams have top tier QBs. Those that don't may play reasonably competitive, and teeter totter around 500 ... sometimes better, sometimes worse, but they don't go much farther than that. And if that's all you want ... then your formula might be OKAY. But those type of teams cannot get past or compete with the Tom Bradys' and the Peyton Mannings' and the Drew Brees' and the Aaron Rodgers' of the NFL. They get beat. Ask the NY Jets. Sanchez is a functional QB ... he's an adequate game manager who can make a few plays here and there, but so far, he hasn't shown himself as "that guy" who'll take them to the next level. And two years in a row, they were one game away ... and as long as Sanchez is the QB, they probably won't do any better than they've already done. And Sanchez us better than anything out there that another team would be willing to let go to be OUR QB. And certainly better than any 2nd round project QB .... unless you believe in miracles and dumb luck such that the Patriots had when they stumbled upon Brady, or the good fortune that the Packers had when Rodgers fell to them. But both teams had accomplished starters when they drafted their QBs ... Bledsoe with the Pats, and Favre with the Pack. They didn't DESPERATELY need a QB to come in to start like the Redskins do. We don't have the luxury of picking another "Project" while continuing to tweak the rest of the roster as you insist needs to be done. And the more we improve, the further we are going to get AWAY from being in a position to draft that Top Tier QB.

Now there are relative stages at which teams find themselves. Some teams have so many holes on both sides of the ball, that they MUST NOT trade picks they need to rebuild their rosters. But in my opinion, that does NOT describe the Redskins, who have constructed a good defense, and have several young promising play makers on offense, along with a few solid vets, with a BIG GLARING piece missing ... a QB for which you can continue building the team around.

Now the choices are limited. Even most starting QBs at the college level are not high quality NFL material. Just the rare few are. And none of them are guaranteed to become top tier .... there are just those that are more likely to succeed than others. But when there is a Peyton Manning on the board, they go first. So you only get a shot at those type players in one of three ways ... either you are the worst team in the NFL that needs a lot more than just a QB, or you are a team that is willing to give up something valuable to get a player that valuable .... or you cross your freaking fingers hoping that some hidden gem that everyone else totally missed will fall in your lap.

In this case, we aren't the worst team, or even close to being the worst team, and will not likely be the worst team as we continue to improve. So you have the other two options available .... you can hope for Luck in the form of good fortune which has been particularly unkind to the Redskins for 25+ years, or you can make your own Luck in the form of utilizing strategy and trading up to get yourself some Luck.

The only other option is that you can believe, as the redskins have for 20 years, that you can create Chicken salad out of chicken poop, by adding a lot of good players around a very marginal QB talent and hope for the best.

Well ... Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers, Trent Williams, LaRon Landry, Brian Orakpo, Ryan Kerrigan picks may have been good choices (except Campbell and Rogers), but we are still a below 500 team. Trent Williams didn't make Beck or Grossman a better QB, and neither will saving our picks in order to get two more guys like him in 2012 and 2013. That will only provide our talent shy QB (whoever that is) an extra second in the pocket to throw into double coverage, or fold up like a lawn chair when the chips are down.

You seem to believe that trading up to get Luck would be a repeat of the old days .... I say ... we have done EVERYTHING EXCEPT get a great QB over the past 20 years, and look what that has accomplished.

Maybe we ought to try something novel ... like find ourselves a good driver before we rebuild any more motors, put on any more fancy wheels, install high powered stereos, or dress up with fancy paint and leather interiors?

I don't care how good your car is, you aren't winning any races unless you have a great driver. The other guys are just going to wreck it.

[PAPDOG67]

The main problem with the upcoming draft is this....Shanny knows he needs a QB badly. We may not be in position to draft one of the top ones obviously. Now I know most here do not want to trade a number of picks to get Luck, or RGIII, but will those same people be ok with another 6-10, 7-9, or 8-8 season next year??? I personally would be ok with it assuming we have another good draft this season, while trading back some and possibly getting some high picks for next season. If Barkley, RGIII, and Jones stay at school, we will need ammo to grab one of them next season. That might mean trading our 2nd rounder this season for a 1st next year. Are people on this board ok with that? I don't know if I am....and the main problem with this is I think Shanny knows if they don't make some noise and at least sniff the playoffs next season, he might be on the unemployment line. So while the right thing for the team might be to continue building the roster and not reach for a QB, is it the smartest move for Shannahan?

[CanesSkins26]

TO ANYONE - Please explain how we trade up without giving up continuing to build this team

don't try and explain ANYTHING else

OKAY ... let me try to explain it to you this way. Take the top contenders for a Championship in the NFL, and tell us what they all have in common? That's your first clue.

Now, look back and consider the majority of teams who have won Super Bowls and tell us what they all HAD in common? That's the second clue.

And finally, look back at the Redskins history for the past 20 years, and tell us what is the one thing we haven't had. This ought to be enough clues.

We've had several coaches. We've had the return of Joe Gibbs. We've drafted plenty of players. We've retooled O-lines and D-lines and picked up corner backs and safeties .. and receivers and running backs and more coaches. We've brought in the Brad Johnsons and the Mark Brunnels and the Jeff Georges and we even drafted a QB in the first round ... a player with "Potential". You know ... they guy that didn't quite set the world on fire, but had some of the skills that might make a good QB ... and all we needed to do is "fill in" the few holes .... like understanding defenses and remembering to step up in the pocket and learn how to play under center in a pro style offense!! And we wasted FIVE YEARS on that little project while adding other players we thought would hide his flaws. DIDN'T WORK, DID IT? NO it did not.

So what do we do? We get McNabb, and that didn't work. We get Grossman and that didn't work. And the geniuses grabbed Beck and that blew up in their faces. So yeah ... lets do more of that? I don't think so.

just explain how this franchise can continue to build upon what has started to be very obvious

WE ARE A LOT BETTER OFF BY NOT TRADING ANY DRAFT PICKS

We have only had 2 drafts with this FO

OKAY - just explain how we continue to get better - AND WE ARE GETTING BETTER - without giving up draft picks

OR JUST SHUT UP - and go find a fantasy football roster to play with
bunch of retards

Why don't you go get your own board, and then you can decide what others are allowed to say and believe?

The fact is, I understand what you are saying, but you are living in the past. No one is advocating trading draft picks for someone else's used to be star players ... we're talking about trading up to draft what we desperately need and have needed for a LONG TIME.

The reality is, if you want to build a Championship team, you need a championship caliber QB . P E R I O D. There is no way around that equation. All of the Championship caliber teams have top tier QBs. Those that don't may play reasonably competitive, and teeter totter around 500 ... sometimes better, sometimes worse, but they don't go much farther than that. And if that's all you want ... then your formula might be OKAY. But those type of teams cannot get past or compete with the Tom Bradys' and the Peyton Mannings' and the Drew Brees' and the Aaron Rodgers' of the NFL. They get beat. Ask the NY Jets. Sanchez is a functional QB ... he's an adequate game manager who can make a few plays here and there, but so far, he hasn't shown himself as "that guy" who'll take them to the next level. And two years in a row, they were one game away ... and as long as Sanchez is the QB, they probably won't do any better than they've already done. And Sanchez us better than anything out there that another team would be willing to let go to be OUR QB. And certainly better than any 2nd round project QB .... unless you believe in miracles and dumb luck such that the Patriots had when they stumbled upon Brady, or the good fortune that the Packers had when Rodgers fell to them. But both teams had accomplished starters when they drafted their QBs ... Bledsoe with the Pats, and Favre with the Pack. They didn't DESPERATELY need a QB to come in to start like the Redskins do. We don't have the luxury of picking another "Project" while continuing to tweak the rest of the roster as you insist needs to be done. And the more we improve, the further we are going to get AWAY from being in a position to draft that Top Tier QB.

Now there are relative stages at which teams find themselves. Some teams have so many holes on both sides of the ball, that they MUST NOT trade picks they need to rebuild their rosters. But in my opinion, that does NOT describe the Redskins, who have constructed a good defense, and have several young promising play makers on offense, along with a few solid vets, with a BIG GLARING piece missing ... a QB for which you can continue building the team around.

Now the choices are limited. Even most starting QBs at the college level are not high quality NFL material. Just the rare few are. And none of them are guaranteed to become top tier .... there are just those that are more likely to succeed than others. But when there is a Peyton Manning on the board, they go first. So you only get a shot at those type players in one of three ways ... either you are the worst team in the NFL that needs a lot more than just a QB, or you are a team that is willing to give up something valuable to get a player that valuable .... or you cross your freaking fingers hoping that some hidden gem that everyone else totally missed will fall in your lap.

In this case, we aren't the worst team, or even close to being the worst team, and will not likely be the worst team as we continue to improve. So you have the other two options available .... you can hope for Luck in the form of good fortune which has been particularly unkind to the Redskins for 25+ years, or you can make your own Luck in the form of utilizing strategy and trading up to get yourself some Luck.

The only other option is that you can believe, as the redskins have for 20 years, that you can create Chicken salad out of chicken poop, by adding a lot of good players around a very marginal QB talent and hope for the best.

Well ... Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers, Trent Williams, LaRon Landry, Brian Orakpo, Ryan Kerrigan picks may have been good choices (except Campbell and Rogers), but we are still a below 500 team. Trent Williams didn't make Beck or Grossman a better QB, and neither will saving our picks in order to get two more guys like him in 2012 and 2013. That will only provide our talent shy QB (whoever that is) an extra second in the pocket to throw into double coverage, or fold up like a lawn chair when the chips are down.

You seem to believe that trading up to get Luck would be a repeat of the old days .... I say ... we have done EVERYTHING EXCEPT get a great QB over the past 20 years, and look what that has accomplished.

Maybe we ought to try something novel ... like find ourselves a good driver before we rebuild any more motors, put on any more fancy wheels, install high powered stereos, or dress up with fancy paint and leather interiors?

I don't care how good your car is, you aren't winning any races unless you have a great driver. The other guys are just going to wreck it.

AWESOME post.

[Red_One43]

TO ANYONE - Please explain how we trade up without giving up continuing to build this team

don't try and explain ANYTHING else

OKAY ... let me try to explain it to you this way. Take the top contenders for a Championship in the NFL, and tell us what they all have in common? That's your first clue.

Now, look back and consider the majority of teams who have won Super Bowls and tell us what they all HAD in common? That's the second clue.

And finally, look back at the Redskins history for the past 20 years, and tell us what is the one thing we haven't had. This ought to be enough clues.

We've had several coaches. We've had the return of Joe Gibbs. We've drafted plenty of players. We've retooled O-lines and D-lines and picked up corner backs and safeties .. and receivers and running backs and more coaches. We've brought in the Brad Johnsons and the Mark Brunnels and the Jeff Georges and we even drafted a QB in the first round ... a player with "Potential". You know ... they guy that didn't quite set the world on fire, but had some of the skills that might make a good QB ... and all we needed to do is "fill in" the few holes .... like understanding defenses and remembering to step up in the pocket and learn how to play under center in a pro style offense!! And we wasted FIVE YEARS on that little project while adding other players we thought would hide his flaws. DIDN'T WORK, DID IT? NO it did not.

So what do we do? We get McNabb, and that didn't work. We get Grossman and that didn't work. And the geniuses grabbed Beck and that blew up in their faces. So yeah ... lets do more of that? I don't think so.

just explain how this franchise can continue to build upon what has started to be very obvious

WE ARE A LOT BETTER OFF BY NOT TRADING ANY DRAFT PICKS

We have only had 2 drafts with this FO

OKAY - just explain how we continue to get better - AND WE ARE GETTING BETTER - without giving up draft picks

OR JUST SHUT UP - and go find a fantasy football roster to play with
bunch of retards

Why don't you go get your own board, and then you can decide what others are allowed to say and believe?

The fact is, I understand what you are saying, but you are living in the past. No one is advocating trading draft picks for someone else's used to be star players ... we're talking about trading up to draft what we desperately need and have needed for a LONG TIME.

The reality is, if you want to build a Championship team, you need a championship caliber QB . P E R I O D. There is no way around that equation. All of the Championship caliber teams have top tier QBs. Those that don't may play reasonably competitive, and teeter totter around 500 ... sometimes better, sometimes worse, but they don't go much farther than that. And if that's all you want ... then your formula might be OKAY. But those type of teams cannot get past or compete with the Tom Bradys' and the Peyton Mannings' and the Drew Brees' and the Aaron Rodgers' of the NFL. They get beat. Ask the NY Jets. Sanchez is a functional QB ... he's an adequate game manager who can make a few plays here and there, but so far, he hasn't shown himself as "that guy" who'll take them to the next level. And two years in a row, they were one game away ... and as long as Sanchez is the QB, they probably won't do any better than they've already done. And Sanchez us better than anything out there that another team would be willing to let go to be OUR QB. And certainly better than any 2nd round project QB .... unless you believe in miracles and dumb luck such that the Patriots had when they stumbled upon Brady, or the good fortune that the Packers had when Rodgers fell to them. But both teams had accomplished starters when they drafted their QBs ... Bledsoe with the Pats, and Favre with the Pack. They didn't DESPERATELY need a QB to come in to start like the Redskins do. We don't have the luxury of picking another "Project" while continuing to tweak the rest of the roster as you insist needs to be done. And the more we improve, the further we are going to get AWAY from being in a position to draft that Top Tier QB.

Now there are relative stages at which teams find themselves. Some teams have so many holes on both sides of the ball, that they MUST NOT trade picks they need to rebuild their rosters. But in my opinion, that does NOT describe the Redskins, who have constructed a good defense, and have several young promising play makers on offense, along with a few solid vets, with a BIG GLARING piece missing ... a QB for which you can continue building the team around.

Now the choices are limited. Even most starting QBs at the college level are not high quality NFL material. Just the rare few are. And none of them are guaranteed to become top tier .... there are just those that are more likely to succeed than others. But when there is a Peyton Manning on the board, they go first. So you only get a shot at those type players in one of three ways ... either you are the worst team in the NFL that needs a lot more than just a QB, or you are a team that is willing to give up something valuable to get a player that valuable .... or you cross your freaking fingers hoping that some hidden gem that everyone else totally missed will fall in your lap.

In this case, we aren't the worst team, or even close to being the worst team, and will not likely be the worst team as we continue to improve. So you have the other two options available .... you can hope for Luck in the form of good fortune which has been particularly unkind to the Redskins for 25+ years, or you can make your own Luck in the form of utilizing strategy and trading up to get yourself some Luck.

The only other option is that you can believe, as the redskins have for 20 years, that you can create Chicken salad out of chicken poop, by adding a lot of good players around a very marginal QB talent and hope for the best.

Well ... Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers, Trent Williams, LaRon Landry, Brian Orakpo, Ryan Kerrigan picks may have been good choices (except Campbell and Rogers), but we are still a below 500 team. Trent Williams didn't make Beck or Grossman a better QB, and neither will saving our picks in order to get two more guys like him in 2012 and 2013. That will only provide our talent shy QB (whoever that is) an extra second in the pocket to throw into double coverage, or fold up like a lawn chair when the chips are down.

You seem to believe that trading up to get Luck would be a repeat of the old days .... I say ... we have done EVERYTHING EXCEPT get a great QB over the past 20 years, and look what that has accomplished.

Maybe we ought to try something novel ... like find ourselves a good driver before we rebuild any more motors, put on any more fancy wheels, install high powered stereos, or dress up with fancy paint and leather interiors?

I don't care how good your car is, you aren't winning any races unless you have a great driver. The other guys are just going to wreck it.

AWESOME post.

I second that emoticon!

[frankcal20]

That's a whole lotta opinion to read. I'll just say this that drafting a QB in the first round is a game changer. Folks say if Shanny doesn't draft a guy in the 1st round, he's done. Well if he drafts a guy in the 1st and he doesn't pan out, he's done. So thats where I feel that if he can get a guy like Flynn from GB and then drafting a QB later in the draft to groom is the way to go. Then your overall investment isn't that great and you've managed to upgrade another position that I'm sure we could use a top player like RT.

[SprintRightOption]

TO ANYONE - Please explain how we trade up without giving up continuing to build this team

don't try and explain ANYTHING else

OKAY ... let me try to explain it to you this way. Take the top contenders for a Championship in the NFL, and tell us what they all have in common? That's your first clue.

Now, look back and consider the majority of teams who have won Super Bowls and tell us what they all HAD in common? That's the second clue.

And finally, look back at the Redskins history for the past 20 years, and tell us what is the one thing we haven't had. This ought to be enough clues.

We've had several coaches. We've had the return of Joe Gibbs. We've drafted plenty of players. We've retooled O-lines and D-lines and picked up corner backs and safeties .. and receivers and running backs and more coaches. We've brought in the Brad Johnsons and the Mark Brunnels and the Jeff Georges and we even drafted a QB in the first round ... a player with "Potential". You know ... they guy that didn't quite set the world on fire, but had some of the skills that might make a good QB ... and all we needed to do is "fill in" the few holes .... like understanding defenses and remembering to step up in the pocket and learn how to play under center in a pro style offense!! And we wasted FIVE YEARS on that little project while adding other players we thought would hide his flaws. DIDN'T WORK, DID IT? NO it did not.

So what do we do? We get McNabb, and that didn't work. We get Grossman and that didn't work. And the geniuses grabbed Beck and that blew up in their faces. So yeah ... lets do more of that? I don't think so.

just explain how this franchise can continue to build upon what has started to be very obvious

WE ARE A LOT BETTER OFF BY NOT TRADING ANY DRAFT PICKS

We have only had 2 drafts with this FO

OKAY - just explain how we continue to get better - AND WE ARE GETTING BETTER - without giving up draft picks

OR JUST SHUT UP - and go find a fantasy football roster to play with
bunch of retards

Why don't you go get your own board, and then you can decide what others are allowed to say and believe?

The fact is, I understand what you are saying, but you are living in the past. No one is advocating trading draft picks for someone else's used to be star players ... we're talking about trading up to draft what we desperately need and have needed for a LONG TIME.

The reality is, if you want to build a Championship team, you need a championship caliber QB . P E R I O D. There is no way around that equation. All of the Championship caliber teams have top tier QBs. Those that don't may play reasonably competitive, and teeter totter around 500 ... sometimes better, sometimes worse, but they don't go much farther than that. And if that's all you want ... then your formula might be OKAY. But those type of teams cannot get past or compete with the Tom Bradys' and the Peyton Mannings' and the Drew Brees' and the Aaron Rodgers' of the NFL. They get beat. Ask the NY Jets. Sanchez is a functional QB ... he's an adequate game manager who can make a few plays here and there, but so far, he hasn't shown himself as "that guy" who'll take them to the next level. And two years in a row, they were one game away ... and as long as Sanchez is the QB, they probably won't do any better than they've already done. And Sanchez us better than anything out there that another team would be willing to let go to be OUR QB. And certainly better than any 2nd round project QB .... unless you believe in miracles and dumb luck such that the Patriots had when they stumbled upon Brady, or the good fortune that the Packers had when Rodgers fell to them. But both teams had accomplished starters when they drafted their QBs ... Bledsoe with the Pats, and Favre with the Pack. They didn't DESPERATELY need a QB to come in to start like the Redskins do. We don't have the luxury of picking another "Project" while continuing to tweak the rest of the roster as you insist needs to be done. And the more we improve, the further we are going to get AWAY from being in a position to draft that Top Tier QB.

Now there are relative stages at which teams find themselves. Some teams have so many holes on both sides of the ball, that they MUST NOT trade picks they need to rebuild their rosters. But in my opinion, that does NOT describe the Redskins, who have constructed a good defense, and have several young promising play makers on offense, along with a few solid vets, with a BIG GLARING piece missing ... a QB for which you can continue building the team around.

Now the choices are limited. Even most starting QBs at the college level are not high quality NFL material. Just the rare few are. And none of them are guaranteed to become top tier .... there are just those that are more likely to succeed than others. But when there is a Peyton Manning on the board, they go first. So you only get a shot at those type players in one of three ways ... either you are the worst team in the NFL that needs a lot more than just a QB, or you are a team that is willing to give up something valuable to get a player that valuable .... or you cross your freaking fingers hoping that some hidden gem that everyone else totally missed will fall in your lap.

In this case, we aren't the worst team, or even close to being the worst team, and will not likely be the worst team as we continue to improve. So you have the other two options available .... you can hope for Luck in the form of good fortune which has been particularly unkind to the Redskins for 25+ years, or you can make your own Luck in the form of utilizing strategy and trading up to get yourself some Luck.

The only other option is that you can believe, as the redskins have for 20 years, that you can create Chicken salad out of chicken poop, by adding a lot of good players around a very marginal QB talent and hope for the best.

Well ... Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers, Trent Williams, LaRon Landry, Brian Orakpo, Ryan Kerrigan picks may have been good choices (except Campbell and Rogers), but we are still a below 500 team. Trent Williams didn't make Beck or Grossman a better QB, and neither will saving our picks in order to get two more guys like him in 2012 and 2013. That will only provide our talent shy QB (whoever that is) an extra second in the pocket to throw into double coverage, or fold up like a lawn chair when the chips are down.

You seem to believe that trading up to get Luck would be a repeat of the old days .... I say ... we have done EVERYTHING EXCEPT get a great QB over the past 20 years, and look what that has accomplished.

Maybe we ought to try something novel ... like find ourselves a good driver before we rebuild any more motors, put on any more fancy wheels, install high powered stereos, or dress up with fancy paint and leather interiors?

I don't care how good your car is, you aren't winning any races unless you have a great driver. The other guys are just going to wreck it.

Why, allow me to retort:

1. Trent Dilfer , Jeff Hofstetler and Doug Williams are not great quarterbacks or as they say now a "Franchise" quarterback, yet they won Super Bowls.

2. Dan Marino , Fran Tarkenton, and Jim Kelley are Hall of Fame Quarterbacks who never won a Super Bowl. Tarkenton played in the Super Bowl three times and Jim Kelly four times yet neither could win a Super Bowl. John Elway was in three Super Bowls before he won his first.

What does this mean? Football is a team sport unlike auto racing and though having a great quarterback helps, it does not ensure a successful season or a Super Bowl title. There is no fixed formula for winning. Like war, the field of battle is always changing.

Imagine that a terrorist organization was able to take down the Twin towers and hit the Pentagon. That Russia was beaten by people with less than a third grade education in Afghanistan. That America was beaten in Vietnam. That Custer and the seventh cavalry was destroyed. That General Lee constantly won with inferior numbers and equipment. History books are filled with example like these. Some things are more important than others, but almost never singly important.

[Red_One43]

SprintRightOption wrote:

1. Trent Dilfer , Jeff Hofstetler and Doug Williams are not great quarterbacks or as they say now a "Franchise" quarterback, yet they won Super Bowls.

2. Dan Marino , Fran Tarkenton, and Jim Kelley are Hall of Fame Quarterbacks who never won a Super Bowl. Tarkenton played in the Super Bowl three times and Jim Kelly four times yet neither could win a Super Bowl. John Elway was in three Super Bowls before he won his first.

What does this mean? Football is a team sport unlike auto racing and though having a great quarterback helps, it does not ensure a successful season or a Super Bowl title. There is no fixed formula for winning. Like war, the field of battle is always changing.

There are always exceptions to any "rule."

Dilfer played for the Ravens who had a defense that scored often and denied scores often. We do not have such a D.

Doug Williams played for a coach who is the only coach who has won Super Bowls with three different QBs and Pettibon's Ds were no slouches.
We don't have such coaches on O or D.

Hostetler also played on a team with a superior D and a coach who knew how to run the ball. Our D is not superior and our OC doesn't know how to run the ball.

Who were the teams to beat Marino,Elway, Kelly and Tarkington in the Bowls? 49ers, Redskins, Cowboys, Dolphins, Raiders, Steelers - Teams with either franchise QBs, superb defenses, and/or strong running games.

You are down playing the importance of a great QB. It doesn't guarantee a SB, but it increases, big time, the probabily that one gets there.

Ask yourself this, had we had Elway, Brady, Montana, Kelly, etc. this season, would we have competed for the division? Think of the plays the Grossman could not extend, because he can't. Think of the all the INTs and fumbles he had. Think of his his below 60% passing completion PCT. Think of how much rest our D would have gotten with extended drives. Kyle could run his O like he wants with success. A franchise QB with everything being equal on our team, would give us a shot at the division and thus a shot at the playoffs and thus a shot to go to the SB. No guarantee but a shot.

Name the teams this year without a franchise QB that have a shot at the SB this year. [/b]

[welch]

Unfortunately, many college QB's look like future stars. Most are not.

Look at the reverse stat: how many kid QBs were drafted in the first round, and how many of those won a championship, or even started more than a season or two.

It is hard to predict the future, and even harder when the future depends on so many other position players and coaches.

The best modern QB broadcasts every Sunday for the Redskins. He was about a 4th round pick, and the Eagles gave up on him.

Roughly 1963 was a very good year for college QBs. Offhand, I can think of George Mira, Joe Namath, Dick Shiner, Roger Staubach. We know Namath and Staubach; Shiner started about one season for the Steelers, and Mira flopped completely.

Grosman was supposed to be a "franchise QB". He wasn't, and isn't. Tim Couch was going to win five SBs. He didn't. Ryan Leaf was even better, on paper. Matt Leinert an Vince Young were elite prospects. Do either look like stars-to-be?

Rolling back a few years, everyone thought Tom Brady was just a space-holder for Drew Bledsoe. Remember Drew Henson, the future star QB of the Cowboys? Where was Tony Romo drafted?

Sure, a team needs a good QB to win, but how to find one?

[Red_One43]

Unfortunately, many college QB's look like future stars. Most are not.

Look at the reverse stat: how many kid QBs were drafted in the first round, and how many of those won a championship, or even started more than a season or two.

It is hard to predict the future, and even harder when the future depends on so many other position players and coaches.

The best modern QB broadcasts every Sunday for the Redskins. He was about a 4th round pick, and the Eagles gave up on him.

Roughly 1963 was a very good year for college QBs. Offhand, I can think of George Mira, Joe Namath, Dick Shiner, Roger Staubach. We know Namath and Staubach; Shiner started about one season for the Steelers, and Mira flopped completely.

Grosman was supposed to be a "franchise QB". He wasn't, and isn't. Tim Couch was going to win five SBs. He didn't. Ryan Leaf was even better, on paper. Matt Leinert an Vince Young were elite prospects. Do either look like stars-to-be?

Rolling back a few years, everyone thought Tom Brady was just a space-holder for Drew Bledsoe. Remember Drew Henson, the future star QB of the Cowboys? Where was Tony Romo drafted?

Sure, a team needs a good QB to win, but how to find one?

Good Points! Some people thought Ryan Leaf would be a franchise QB, but there were warning signs.*
Peyton Manning? Were there any warning signs about him? Are there any warning signs about Luck?

The "It" factor - there are some guys that there is no argument on whether or not they have "It." Brady has It. Manning has It. Rodgers has It. Brees had It. Marino had It. Kelly had It. Elway had It.
Does anybody thing that Luck doens't have It? It is one thing to watch RGIII play, but have you heard him speak about team and and work ethic, RGIII has It.

There never will be any guarantees, but if ever there is to be a "sure" thing, it is Luck. The question is how much is he worth giving up to get.
I say work on getting him and count the costs when the bidding begins. Hope the Rams get the pick!

Warning signs - Does not mean weaknesses. All prospects have some "weaknesses." I am talking about signs that raise the probability of not making it, i.e. attitude, work habits.

[frankcal20]

Please define "IT."

[Red_One43]

I define "It" as a command presence when in the game. It is kind of like a good military officer. He makes sound judgments under fire and doesn't wince. They don't have to have the best skills to have "It" but you want your QB to have it and the skills to keep you in the eunning for the SB every year. Tebow is a guy with IT without the skills.

Some QB's show glimpses of "It." Even Grossman does. He is a fearless gunslinger. He throws a pick and then threads the needle on his next throw, but like I said - glimpses. Jason Campbell does not have "It." At times, he looks lost out there. Poor decisions. Inconsistent.

I admit that "It" is a subjective idea, but a consensus can be gained on what it is and what it is not.

Somtimes it is hard to put a finget on defining "It," so sayng who is and who is not might help to understand how I define "It."

Examples of my It QBs currently in the NFL
Rogers
Brady
Brees
P. Manning
Roethlisberger
Tebow (Has IT but lacks QB skills)
Cam

No, but good QBs in their own right
Rivers (Tempted to say yes on him, but I have not seen him play enough)
E. Manning
Romo
Flacco
Hasselbeck
Cutler
McNabb
Vick
Palmer
Schaub

No Period
Gabbert
Campbell
Grossman
Jackson
Smith
Moore
Kolb
Fitzpatrick
Sanchez
Freeman
Leinart
Cassel
Painter

Don't Know Enough About Them: (leaning toward yes)
Stafford
Ryan

Developing (Meaning too early to tell, but show signs)
Bradford
Dalton
Ponder
McCoy
Yates
Skelton[/u]

[SkinsJock]

This is not car racing or anything other than trying to put a franchise that was in miserable shape, back together

we need a QB - these guys know that and they will find a way to get one

to advocate giving up the draft picks and good players OR do whatever it takes to get a great QB shows STUPIDITY

this FO will continue to build and add depth - they will not give up on the plan
I am so glad that you guys that want to do anything to get a QB are going to see that we can have our cake & eat it too


having a QB without any players around him is idiotic and fortunately these guys will not let that happen


I may not know anything about how to re-build this franchise but I do recognize stupidity when I see some posts here
Fortunately these guys will not do what some of you want - we'll see the results soon enough


sorry about that - you're just flat out wrong

[SkinsJock]

when a player does not look like they're going to make an effort to be better, we normally just cut him

why can't we do the same with fans that refuse to see that this FO is making our franchise better

we ARE getting better and these guys do know a lot more about it than most here

I'll stick with what Bruce & Mike want to do - they deal with reality - some here don't have a clue

[HEROHAMO]

when a player does not look like they're going to make an effort to be better, we normally just cut him

why can't we do the same with fans that refuse to see that this FO is making our franchise better

we ARE getting better and these guys do know a lot more about it than most here

I'll stick with what Bruce & Mike want to do - they deal with reality - some here don't have a clue

BLess your heart man. I know you want whats best for this franchise. I have to tell that you are assuming that Shanahan and Allen wont trade up for a QB. What makes you so sure they wont go after Luck, RG3 or Manning?

I have no problem with your approach. Thats cool with me bro. Just saying how can you be so sure of what Mike and BRuce want.


Fact is this is one of the best QB classes to come out in quite some time. Seriously. We also have a chance to aquire possibly the greatest QB of all time in Manning. With those oppurtunities at the table. What coach wouldnt consider aquiring a QB? Especially after two years in a row of sub par QB play?

I have been wrong before not many times but I am 99 percent sure we are going to grab Luck, RG3 or Manning. It just makes sense to grab the best prospect available. We can still build with the lower rounds. We just need the star or future star.

[jmooney]

To put a little different spin on it.

Bruce Allen can afford another year like this one and still keep his job. If you consider the way he handled the draft and the FA pick ups. Outstanding work.

The Shannahan's cannot afford another year like this and keep their job. They cant go into the year with Grossman and a rookie who will need a MINIMUM of half a season to develop before they are ready to start.
They almost need to pick up a QB that can start opening day.

So the real question is, does Allen mortgage the future of the team to protect the coaching staff and try to make us a contender next year. or does he approach this draft the same as 2011 and start building a dynasty, protecting his own job for many years to come?

Any of the QB's mentioned with exception of Flynn will cost multiple #1's to get, including Peyton. I think Manning is also due $28mil. for whatever roster he's on march 1st.

I'd kick the tires on Mallett from NE. probably cost a 1 and 2. as bad as I hate to send Belechic extra picks. AND he was available to us in the first round last year and we passed. The guy just spent a year in development behind Brady.