2012 Draft & Free Agency

[CanesSkins26]

We look like we are NOT getting Luck or Barkley - none of the other QBs is going to be able to play QB very well for quite a while

Mike & Bruce will NOT start next season with Grossman and Beck as their top QBs


Mike & Bruce have to make changes and improvements to our offense AND having the same guys at QB is NOT getting that done

Lavar does not know squat about this offense and what is needed here

What are you basing your statements on?? Luck is certainly out of reach but Barkley is certainly not.

[The Hogster]

SORRY Hogster - you're making stuff up .... again

We are going to find a FA QB to start - Grossman will be here as insurance + to help both the FA & the rookie get ready

I realize an IQ Test might not be something you're interested in right now. But, please, tell me HOW am I the one "making stuff up."?? YOU are the one assuming that we will (i) manufacture some free agent QB to play QB, (ii) keep Grossman (which means re-signing him because his contract is up this offseason) and (iii) drafting a QB whom we will leave on the Bench (as a 3rd string/Emergency QB.

You obviously have not seen the Free Agent QB list. I referred you to it, but of course, learning football before talking about it isn't something that interests you.

Like I said Skip, the FA QB list includes (i) Drew Brees, (ii) Jason Campbell, and (iii) Matt Flynn. There are no FA QBs who know Kyles offense. So, logically speaking, I am suggesting that we will likely keep Grossman UNLESS we made a trade for Leinart or TJ Yates (which I Doubt).

SkinsJock, you are the one who is pulling crap from your arse buddy. Care to explain to us how you can say definitively that we will make some Free Agent out of Clay, or why on God's Green Earth we would acquire a guy in FA who doesn't know the offense, and draft a Rookie who doesn't know the offense when in all likelihood that would make Grossman the most experienced option on the roster???

It would make more sense to keep the guys we have & draft a QB. BUT, if we take a QB with what looks to be a Top 5 Pick. THAT guy is going to be better than the guys we have. It's really simple. And, I shouldn't have to take precious time out of my day to explain the obvious to you. If you disagree fine, but your opinion is not fact, nor is mine. We are speaking of the future based on what we expect. Difference is, your expectations make no football sense.

[Red_One43]

The top two rated FA Corners according to NFLs Future with 2011 salaries with second figure being the 2011 cap hit.
Hall is not an FA - he is listed for salary comparison.


Cortland Finnegan CB 28 going into 2012 $3,293,000 $4,793,000
Brent Grimes CB 29 going into 2012 $2,610,000 $2,610,000
(DeAngelo Hall CB 28 going into 2012 $4,500,000 $5,000,000)

Hall 5'11 195
Finnegan 5'10 192
Grimes 5'10 181 (Needs minor knee surgery- out indef)

Grimes was a pro bowl alternate for 2010
Finnegan was a 2009 pro bowl player - known as a "dirty" player - best known for fighting Andre Johnson.

Don't see Shanny going after Finnegan. Costs as much as Hall and comes with baggage - caused a ruckus over his contract negotiations.

Grimes is a solid cover guy and has great character and he could get large a pay raise and still be cheaper than Hall. This is a team first guy and not a Me first as in Meangelo. I say it is time to dump Meangelo and get a guy who can cover and tackle and who will not be a distraction to the goal of this team.

Other than Grimes, I don't see anybody in the FA market that Shanny would want for his number 1 corner.

From a 2010 FA article - Grimes was a restricted FA last year:

Also, for a relatively undersized player, he is a good wrap-up tackler and with his speed can get to ball quickly. Grimes has fearlessly lined up face to face with stars like Boldin, Fitzgerald, DeSean Jackson, Ochocinco and Greg Jennings.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5420 ... in-the-nfl

http://nflsfuture.com/2011/11/11/2012-f ... erbacks-2/

http://nflsfuture.com/2011/11/11/2012-f ... erbacks-2/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl-wp2995

[SkinsJock]

.. What are you basing your statements on?? Luck is certainly out of reach but Barkley is certainly not.

We have a chance at Barkley, certainly
- we should not and most likely WILL NOT give up picks for any NFL player OR to move up
- Barkley will be gone when we pick

that was easy


we all know we need a QB but we also have Mike in charge here - he and Bruce will continue as they have - VERY conservative

we need all the draft picks we can get and should try and get more

[SkinsJock]

We have Grossman & Beck as our QBs - they are not both here next season and .....

We need a QB to start next season

We need to draft a QB with the first pick


Mike brings back Grossman because he can help the FA and the rookie get ready + Grossman's better than Beck

The rookie will be starting ASAP but not until the rest of the offense AND the rookie are ready to do that



the Redskins QB situation is terrible, no question - Mike could start next season with Grossman - that is just an awful scenario



hopefully, we do NOT trade draft picks for any player or to move up in the draft

[CanesSkins26]

.. What are you basing your statements on?? Luck is certainly out of reach but Barkley is certainly not.

We have a chance at Barkley, certainly
- we should not and most likely WILL NOT give up picks for any NFL player OR to move up
- Barkley will be gone when we pick

that was easy


we all know we need a QB but we also have Mike in charge here - he and Bruce will continue as they have - VERY conservative

we need all the draft picks we can get and should try and get more

Who says Barkley will be gone when we pick? They haven't even had the combine yet, nor has Barkley actually declared for the draft. In almost every post of yours you pass off your OPINION as fact.

[SkinsJock]

thanks for paying attention

we are NOT drafting high enough to get Luck or Barkley

[CanesSkins26]

thanks for paying attention

we are NOT drafting high enough to get Luck or Barkley

We'll see...

[The Hogster]

.. What are you basing your statements on?? Luck is certainly out of reach but Barkley is certainly not.

We have a chance at Barkley, certainly
- we should not and most likely WILL NOT give up picks for any NFL player OR to move up
- Barkley will be gone when we pick

that was easy


we all know we need a QB but we also have Mike in charge here - he and Bruce will continue as they have - VERY conservative

we need all the draft picks we can get and should try and get more

Who says Barkley will be gone when we pick? They haven't even had the combine yet, nor has Barkley actually declared for the draft. In almost every post of yours you pass off your OPINION as fact.

+1

[The Hogster]

thanks for paying attention

we are NOT drafting high enough to get Luck or Barkley

It's basically pointless to talk to, debate, or discuss football with you. You obviously think your opinion is fact, but it's not. Put simply, you don't know what you're talking about.

For one, the season isn't over yet so we don't know where we will be picking. Secondly, you obviously have not looked at who may be picking ahead of us--for the most part those teams already have franchise QBs who have a lot invested in them. So, to say that we aren't picking high enough to land Barkley is a barefaced statement of your opinion that can't stand on it's own. You offer no intelligent reason to back it up--as usual.

[SkinsJock]

like the man said we'll see - AND - I'll be sure to remind you


btw - how are you guys doing with hognostictions this year ... oh wait - sorry

[SkinsJock]

Put simply, you don't know what you're talking about.

as the saying goes .. "it takes one to know one" - and to you too -

[SkinsJock]

thanks for paying attention

we are NOT drafting high enough to get Luck or Barkley

It's basically pointless to talk to, debate, or discuss football with you. You obviously think your opinion is fact, but it's not. Put simply, you don't know what you're talking about.

For one, the season isn't over yet so we don't know where we will be picking. Secondly, you obviously have not looked at who may be picking ahead of us--for the most part those teams already have franchise QBs who have a lot invested in them. So, to say that we aren't picking high enough to land Barkley is a barefaced statement of your opinion that can't stand on it's own. You offer no intelligent reason to back it up--as usual.

maybe you didn't get the memo .... everything posted here is JUST a poster's "opinion"

having a little 'trouble' today

[yupchagee]

I don't see Mike putting ANYONE in there until he's sure about the players around him

The drafted QB will not be made to start until he shows that he will not only be OK but also will be good

The offense here is not quite in place yet to handle a rookie QB


Hopefully we can get Barkley
he's closest to being NFL ready - I would be surprised if Mike puts him in until the line and the other players are ready

Says who?

This will be year 3 of a 5 year contract. He can't afford to go with Grossman or Beck next year, with the franchise on the bench. The NFL doesn't work like that anymore. If we had any of the rookies drafted last year, i.e. Dalton, Newton, or Ponder, they'd be starting for us now. Mike doesn't have enough time to try and let a guy develop on the bench. Mike benched Plummer with a winning record. What makes you think he'll give Grossman or Beck a longer leash with Barkley on the bench?

maybe you legal types are a little sloooow - Mike's NOT starting a rookie QB here next season in the first few games

Grossman or Beck will be lucky to be here as waterboys

Grossman would always spill the water

[GoSkins]

With Kalil going pro it looks like Barkley will follow. Interesting scenario, if we remain at the 4th spot then we have a good chance of getting either Barkley or Griffin. God it's going to be a long winter waiting for the the 1st Round on Thursday April 26th, 2012.

[The Hogster]

thanks for paying attention

we are NOT drafting high enough to get Luck or Barkley

It's basically pointless to talk to, debate, or discuss football with you. You obviously think your opinion is fact, but it's not. Put simply, you don't know what you're talking about.

For one, the season isn't over yet so we don't know where we will be picking. Secondly, you obviously have not looked at who may be picking ahead of us--for the most part those teams already have franchise QBs who have a lot invested in them. So, to say that we aren't picking high enough to land Barkley is a barefaced statement of your opinion that can't stand on it's own. You offer no intelligent reason to back it up--as usual.

maybe you didn't get the memo .... everything posted here is JUST a poster's "opinion"

having a little 'trouble' today

True. Some opinions are dumber than others though. Don't shoot the messenger.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

I would like to put this question to the more informed FA members in this thread: how aggressive do you think the Skins are this offseason? How much cap space is available, and if it's a sizable chunk of change will we try to make the proverbial splash signing, or bring on one or two lesser, journeyman-types?

I ask this because I know none of those things, yet I have seen time and time again what the Snyder "mega-acquisition" has gotten us...as have you all. I would rather we signed some guys who aren't budding superstars but have a tremendous work ethic and awesome character; in short, really good locker-room presences, team first players who can produce decent, not spectacular numbers on the field. I'm hoping we continue to hoard our draft picks and build through that first and foremost, but I understand the realities of assembling a roster in today's NFL. Teams that ignore the FA market entirely do so at their own peril.

What say you? Thanks in advance for your responses. I need to get coached up on this stuff and fast.

[SkinsJock]

.. True. Some opinions are dumber than others though. Don't shoot the messenger.

OK here's the thing with me - I don't know much .. BUT you can post ANYTHING here WITHOUT any reason or evidence

this is not a place where you have to show any sense at all OR prove ANYTHING - take a look at most posts here




This site is like - "hope for the best ... Prepare for the worst" - that being said it's the ONLY site for me

I like it here - I like what I see and get out of the posters that I know are "in touch"

I'd love to have a top 5 draft pick, but .... we could win 2 or 3 games = highly unlikely but stranger things have happened

[Red_One43]

BRD, I think the Redskins will follow the the example that they set last year. Signing lots of high motor character guys that they can develop to fit their scheme. Look at the Cofield signing - not a true NT, but a guy with a work ethic that they feel can grow into the position. Look at Bowen - a guy who didn't start in Dallas (except for injuries), but was viewed as having a strong upside. It was said this week on the radio shows that Bowen is improving as a run stopper which was his weekness at the start of the season.

The philosophy is not to go out an get big name, big buck FAs that might be too big to want to listen to the coaches (ie Donovan). IF they do sign a big buck guy like Nicks (OG) of the Saints, he will be a can't miss, work ethic guy who fits the scheme. Nicks has a great work ethic, but he is huge and I don't know if he fits the scheme. Also, I Doubt if the Skins want to get into any bidding wars for anybody.

In short, expect more of the same of last year's strategy. Fill many holes with work ethic guys rather than make big splashes. Make the player an offer and let them test the market is the new mantra.

This kind of strategy mirrors the Steelers and Pats - the draft is the main way to get your players - FA signings are players that want to be here - not players that just want the money. This kind of strategy, considering where we are, takes a while to develop vs signing the big name guy. Example: They could have thrown more money and got Cullen Jenkins who is clearly better than Bowen, but older and injury prone. We would have been a better D with Jenkins for the short run. Look at the Texans, they wasted no time in getting that cover corner in Jonathan Jenkins. They went from the 30th ranked D in 2010 to 2nd ranked right now. We could have gotten Jenkins, who is clearly an upgrade over Hall, but Shanny decided that the priority was filling the many holes. I think that that is still the priority.

QB is the only position that has to upgrade with a top talent right now and I think that that will be in the draft even if we have to give up a couple of draft choices and/or a player. I believe Grossman and Beck will be back with a journeyman veteran signing in the off season. Not sure where Crompton is in Shanny's view. I expect Mike to explore trade options should his QB not be available when he picks - i.e. trade down and aquire picks and trade to pry a QB from another team perhaps a guy like Mallett who has a year of NFL environment under his belt.

OL - expect Shanny to do the same with OL signings - a Lot of folks expect big name signings for the OL and/or a top draft choice, but that is not how Shanny rolls. Only if the guy is a guy that he covets will he go after a guy - not because he is a top player at his position. He likes Lichtenstieger. He likes Chester. He likes Monty. He likes Williams. He expects them to grow and get better. Brown who is clearly injury prone will get some competition. Look for a versatile OL to big picked within the first 5 rounds. He is also watching how Polumbus does. He seemed to do well against the Pats.

CB - I am not convinced that Shanny see Grimes as the answer over HAll for cover corner. Shanny likes athleticism. I think that he is still in Hall's corner chalking up Hall's year as a bad year and that he will baounce back. Look for a high round draft choice of a CB if his guy is available.

Safety - Landry will be re-signed at a reasonable salary and be required to have the surgery. I look for a late round safety in the draft and some competition from second tier FA's - no big name signings.

WR - I have no idea where a bonafide #1 receiver fits in the priority for this off season. My guess is since QB is a priority, WR must rank right behind.

Last year, Mike said that the priority was OLB and lo and behold Mike was telling the truth. On Mike's show televised locally on Saturday nights, when he was asked if he would prioritize offense since he seemed to prioritized defense, Mike said yes, but he also added, it really depends on who is available at the time our pick comes around. Just a side note on last year's draft, when asked about Mallett, Mike said that we really liked him, but when we wanted to draft him, he was gone.

[Countertrey]

I like your analysis, RO... I would just point out that, if last year's pattern holds true, expect the Redskins to make sure their name is associated with lot's of the top Free Agents, while working with agents on low profile, quality free agents, in the same way that they did last year. In effect, they were using smoke screens to hide their real interests... and it seemed to be pretty darned effective.

I do believe that they will be working to get that quarterback via the draft, though.

[Kilmer72]

So what happens if we do win a game or two? If this is the best year we have had in a while to draft a QB, do we trade up? Do we gamble on another young vet and trade for him? I think the way we are playing now we could win a couple of games. Our offense is starting to click a little. We now are running the ball which of course opens the play action. My question is, what is the right thing to do if we win a couple of games? Mortgage the future or pick the best player available? I think trading up might be the best way to handle this years draft but I hate losing picks.

[DarthMonk]

This whole thread seems like GM but whateva ...

I hate trading up too but sometimes you need to. This has been discussed so much but ...

I really like the D line right now. An awesome NT would make our D-line borderline elite. The backers are good enough. We need one more corner and a consistent safety. If we can get a guy like Flowers from KC and some safety I've never heard of we could do it in FA. (wonder what kind of FS Hall would make?)

We need a big WR, a tackle, and a QB. I'd be willing to trade up for the QB if we could do the rest in FA and not have to pay too high a price.

Better would be to play all the rest of our games with Rex and the youngest line-up possible. If we win some, so be it. Else, we are 4-12, get RGIII or Barkley, and start trading down like a mofo until the 4th round then keep gettin' younga.

DarthMonk

So what happens if we do win a game or two? If this is the best year we have had in a while to draft a QB, do we trade up? Do we gamble on another young vet and trade for him? I think the way we are playing now we could win a couple of games. Our offense is starting to click a little. We now are running the ball which of course opens the play action. My question is, what is the right thing to do if we win a couple of games? Mortgage the future or pick the best player available? I think trading up might be the best way to handle this years draft but I hate losing picks.

[Kilmer72]

NT = Chris Neild. It might take a year or two but that is the man for the job. My brother told me that was a steal in the draft for 7th round when we picked him. I don't watch college ball so I don't know, but he does seem to make plays for a 7th rounder. He will be the man.

I was referring to; would you take a chance in trading up for a QB or take a high pick to fill a need else where? I think you sorta answered that question by saying sometimes you need to. I am thinking if you were going to draft a QB this would be the year seeing as we are doing so poorly and have a chance to at least trade up.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

RO, thanks for your post answering my question. Your summary was insightful and to the point. After reading it I am heartened by what appear to be clear signs that Shanny is sticking with his plan, knowing full well that it will take some time to come to fruition.

What a nice shot in the arm. I have struggled mightily with discouraging thoughts watching the Skins muddle through this season. I guess I got caught up in the euphoria of the 3-1 start a little more than I cared to admit, and when the bubble burst I was thrown for a loop.

Progress is taking place it seems. Onward and upward. Fight on, fight on, and all that...