Year 2 of Shanahan

[Russ Penman]

Seems to me that since we had the 4th ranked defense when Shanahan came here we should have not fixed what was not broken and focused on the offense. But that would have been too much like right, seriously stupid decisions that continue to bite us in the butt!!

[StorminMormon86]

I think a lot of people aren't giving the Fins enough credit. They were close to beating the Giants and slaughtered the Chiefs. Outside of the Seahawks and the Vikings, I don't see a chance for another win this year.

[Russ Penman]

I think a lot of people aren't giving the Fins enough credit. They were close to beating the Giants and slaughtered the Chiefs. Outside of the Seahawks and the Vikings, I don't see a chance for another win this year.

I don't think that's the case I would love to have Matt Moore here, he seems to "get it" My anger isn't really that we lost, hell with this team that is the expectation, the problem is we couldn't even score 1 damn touchdown. That to me is seriously a problem. The offensive line coach also stinks. There isn't a coach on this team that to me deserves a check other than Keenan McCardell. Heck I think Chris Samuels could do a better job coaching than this Foerester dude or however you spell his last name. Sorry this is a trainwreck and at this point since we have this youth movement why not start the 3rd string QB? also Perry Riley needs to start from now on. It's funny how the Giant's get depleted in the secondary and the bumbs signed off the street have more interceptions than our starters huh? We have LaRon flexing after every play but I haven't seen him hit no one since the Dallas game. Maurice Hurt stunk but I guess he is an upgrade over Derrick Dockery who we let go as well. I see Selvish Capers is on the Giants practice squad he will be the next beast offensive lineman. Seriously what Daniel Snyder do to have this type of dysfunction. Was he Adolf Hitler in his last life???

[chiefhog44]

:roll:

I bet if we cut Shanahan and moved on to the next coach, we'd see a ton of threads next year talking about how no one could win here because Snyder doesn't let any continuity develop.

We've been here before, people.

I honestly cannot believe people want to move on to the next coach already. I've seen it in a couple of random comment threads on news articles. I'm not a ticket-holder, so I can't gauge the atmosphere at games. But is our fan base really that stupid?

You make good points. However, you also only focus on one part of Shanahan's job - coaching - and that really isn't the problem. The problem
is that Shanahan, no matter his official title, is also the GM here and he is not good at that job. He struggled in that dual role in Denver, it's what
ultimately got him fired, and he should never have been given the authority
over player personnel matters when he was hired here. Like in Denver,
Shanahan the GM is screwing over Shanahan the coach.

What is wrong with his player personnel moves? The guy drafted, T. Williams, Helu, Hankerson, Riley, Kerrigan, J. Jenkins plus a bunch of other contributors. All of these players are good to all pro already. I am really psyched about the future of some of these guys. I haven't been able to say that about many drafts in the last 15 - 20 years. As for his free agents, the guy brought in Otogwe, Hightower, gaffney, Wilson, Bowen, Coefield, and Jamal Brown. All of these players are Solid. He got rid of Haynesworth, Portis, Thomas, Kelly, rabach, Daniels, Campbell, R. Thomas among others. Most of these players are out of the league, over 30, cancers, or a QB that I think sucks. He has the line, QB and depth to left to address. What exactly do you think is so poor? That he made a mistake on McNabb? That he wasn't able to do more on offense in the offseason? Come on now. Be patient. I actually had a blast watching this game. Sure we lost, but, watching, Hank, Riley, Kerrigan, Davis, Bowen, Barnes, and Helu make plays today is REALLY encouraging, because most are under the age of 26 I think

If those guys are all pros that means that 80 percent of the NFL is all pro caliber. How many good games have Hankerson and Helu had? Jenkins hasnt played a down (nobody's fault) but we have no idea if he's good or bad. Trent so far hasn't played up to his draft position. Kerrigan has played very well for a rookie.

As for the other players you mentioned.... Brown is a turnstile over at right tackle, Gaffney is essentially useless, Wilson has been a huge downgrade from what we had, Hightower was ineffective before he got hurt, Cofield isn't good, and Bowen is mediocre. Otogwe was a nice pickup.

I never said they were all, all pro's. I think Kerrigan is absolutely an all pro this year. re-read my post bud. good to all pro

I think you fail to see the big picture. The guys he brought in are either good stopgaps or permanent solutions. There are far worse players at those positions around the league. He brought them in to shore up those positions for the time being to make us competitive. It's going to take more than one offseason to fill every position on this team with a good player. Gaffney is a good #2 or 3. Hightower is a stopgap, Cofield and Bowen are playing pretty well this year. Even Tim Ryan, who knows more about football than you will ever think of knowing, said as much at the beginning of last game. Otogwe is a permanent solution.

Dude, start watching the formation of other championship teams. This is not a cut, but unfortunately, DC teams haven't had too many of those lately and so I'm sure you don't even remember how that is accomplished. I got to watch the Blackhawks, and it started with a GM and coach. Then we invested in a good defense by bringing in Seabrook and Duncan Keith. Then a goalie. Then we brought in offense with Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp. This took 4 years to build and it was UGLY the first two. A hockey town like Chicago wasn't even selling out. Along the way we had a number of role players. Players who were good enough to be competitive. You started seeing spurts from the younger players. Flashes... similar to the rookies this past weekend Kerrigan, Riley, Hankerson, Helu etc. Sound familiar?? It'll happen, just give it another year or two. This is how you build a winning organization.

[DarthMonk]

:roll:

I bet if we cut Shanahan and moved on to the next coach, we'd see a ton of threads next year talking about how no one could win here because Snyder doesn't let any continuity develop.

We've been here before, people.

I honestly cannot believe people want to move on to the next coach already. I've seen it in a couple of random comment threads on news articles. I'm not a ticket-holder, so I can't gauge the atmosphere at games. But is our fan base really that stupid?

You make good points. However, you also only focus on one part of Shanahan's job - coaching - and that really isn't the problem. The problem is that Shanahan, no matter his official title, is also the GM here and he is not good at that job. He struggled in that dual role in Denver, it's what ultimately got him fired, and he should never have been given the authority over player personnel matters when he was hired here. Like in Denver, Shanahan the GM is screwing over Shanahan the coach.

This really is a problem. The coach in him wants to win now and the GM in him wants to get young and be patient. That can make a guy end up doing neither.

DarthMonk

[DarthMonk]

Ray, Ray, Ray. Tell us what you really think, bro!

Nice post. Loved it.

DarthMonk

The defense is in the top 10 in points allowed, (12th in total yards allowed) which is better than the Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, Patriots, Packers, Bears etc., and that is the MAIN measure of a defense ... how many points does it allow. And they've managed that even with an offense that can't score, or stay on the field. If the offense was performing at a respectable NFL level, the defensive stats would probably be even better. So people who complain about the defense just don't know what they are talking about.

The offense, on the other hand, has taken a turn for the worse, and there is no example in the recent memory that would overshadow the ineptness we see in the second year of the Shanaklan experiment, with the only arguable exception being the 2004 Redskin offense in the 1st year if Gibbs II.

Even under Zorn, the offense, BOTH YEARS were statistically better points wise, compared to year 2 of the Shanahan regime, and we've never seen such UNENDING QB controversy and personnel miscalculations and mishandling. Mike and Kyle look like the freaking Three Stooges, minus Moe, for God's Sake .... and for those of you who want to preach patience, I've got one message ..... as funny man Ron White would say ... "You just can't fix stupid". I would apply that theme to "you just can't fix poor judgment", and we've seen way to much of that coming from this vaunted, Super Bowl winning, well seasoned, head coach.

Now, for those who would say he was given a bad team, and it takes time to rebuild .... I say you can take as much time as you like .... 2 years ... 5 years .. whatever ... if the man choosing the talent keeps making the same poor decisions (McNabb, Grossman, Beck, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, etc,, etc.,) then you are going to get more of the same. If you are selling at a loss, you won't make it up in volume!!

Are you hearing me? This guy is not a rookie coach ..... this guy was coaching against Joe Gibbs I ..... and I think anyone who thinks that his "judgment" or talent evaluation skills are going to improve somehow .. given a little time .... you're dreaming.

And it's not just judgment related to talent .. but common sense which seems to lose every battle with Shanahan's ego or desires. We had a decent defense and a roster suited for the 43 we were running, and like a spoiled child wgo has to have his way, he decides to overhaul the defensive roster, when the efforts would have been better directed at the offense.

I've personally seen plenty enough of Mike Shanahan, and his smug Son to last me a lifetime ... and there were many Denver fans that warned us not to be overly excited, or allow expectations to run wild. Many in Denver were extremely happy to see him go ... and now we should all recognize why, but, apparently, few people see the writing on the wall.

The only thing that will save this franchise from such mishandling and incompetence is a "Peyton Manning" type superstar QB who can single handedly win 10 games a year .... like what John Elway did for this beady eyed buffoon.

[SkinsJock]

I've stated before that I'm NOT a Shanahan fan - + I've seen enough of his son's offense for that to bother me a little too

HOWEVER - we cannot get better by getting rid of these guys now

this is our bed ... for now - we have to go down the 'Shanahan plan' road for at least another season



we really are not all that far off - the QB situation really sucks but we are better off than we were

I'm surprised that some here think that we'd be better off going back to that sort of scenario - that was hopeless

there are some players here to keep building around


wouldn't it be nice though if we could have like a stock split
a bunch of fans here could 'move' the franchise off to California .. WITH Snyder of course
they could even 'take' part of the name and be the Danskins

[GoSkins]

I've stated before that I'm NOT a Shanahan fan - + I've seen enough of his son's offense for that to bother me a little too

HOWEVER - we cannot get better by getting rid of these guys now

this is our bed ... for now - we have to go down the 'Shanahan plan' road for at least another season



we really are not all that far off - the QB situation really sucks but we are better off than we were

I'm surprised that some here think that we'd be better off going back to that sort of scenario - that was hopeless

there are some players here to keep building around


wouldn't it be nice though if we could have like a stock split
a bunch of fans here could 'move' the franchise off to California .. WITH Snyder of course
they could even 'take' part of the name and be the Danskins

I agree. We are taking a step back this year to move 2 steps forward next year. We just need to be very good in our draft and FA.

[CanesSkins26]

:roll:

I bet if we cut Shanahan and moved on to the next coach, we'd see a ton of threads next year talking about how no one could win here because Snyder doesn't let any continuity develop.

We've been here before, people.

I honestly cannot believe people want to move on to the next coach already. I've seen it in a couple of random comment threads on news articles. I'm not a ticket-holder, so I can't gauge the atmosphere at games. But is our fan base really that stupid?

You make good points. However, you also only focus on one part of Shanahan's job - coaching - and that really isn't the problem. The problem
is that Shanahan, no matter his official title, is also the GM here and he is not good at that job. He struggled in that dual role in Denver, it's what
ultimately got him fired, and he should never have been given the authority
over player personnel matters when he was hired here. Like in Denver,
Shanahan the GM is screwing over Shanahan the coach.

What is wrong with his player personnel moves? The guy drafted, T. Williams, Helu, Hankerson, Riley, Kerrigan, J. Jenkins plus a bunch of other contributors. All of these players are good to all pro already. I am really psyched about the future of some of these guys. I haven't been able to say that about many drafts in the last 15 - 20 years. As for his free agents, the guy brought in Otogwe, Hightower, gaffney, Wilson, Bowen, Coefield, and Jamal Brown. All of these players are Solid. He got rid of Haynesworth, Portis, Thomas, Kelly, rabach, Daniels, Campbell, R. Thomas among others. Most of these players are out of the league, over 30, cancers, or a QB that I think sucks. He has the line, QB and depth to left to address. What exactly do you think is so poor? That he made a mistake on McNabb? That he wasn't able to do more on offense in the offseason? Come on now. Be patient. I actually had a blast watching this game. Sure we lost, but, watching, Hank, Riley, Kerrigan, Davis, Bowen, Barnes, and Helu make plays today is REALLY encouraging, because most are under the age of 26 I think

If those guys are all pros that means that 80 percent of the NFL is all pro caliber. How many good games have Hankerson and Helu had? Jenkins hasnt played a down (nobody's fault) but we have no idea if he's good or bad. Trent so far hasn't played up to his draft position. Kerrigan has played very well for a rookie.

As for the other players you mentioned.... Brown is a turnstile over at right tackle, Gaffney is essentially useless, Wilson has been a huge downgrade from what we had, Hightower was ineffective before he got hurt, Cofield isn't good, and Bowen is mediocre. Otogwe was a nice pickup.

I never said they were all, all pro's. I think Kerrigan is absolutely an all pro this year. re-read my post bud. good to all pro

I think you fail to see the big picture. The guys he brought in are either good stopgaps or permanent solutions. There are far worse players at those positions around the league. He brought them in to shore up those positions for the time being to make us competitive. It's going to take more than one offseason to fill every position on this team with a good player. Gaffney is a good #2 or 3. Hightower is a stopgap, Cofield and Bowen are playing pretty well this year. Even Tim Ryan, who knows more about football than you will ever think of knowing, said as much at the beginning of last game. Otogwe is a permanent solution.

Dude, start watching the formation of other championship teams. This is not a cut, but unfortunately, DC teams haven't had too many of those lately and so I'm sure you don't even remember how that is accomplished. I got to watch the Blackhawks, and it started with a GM and coach. Then we invested in a good defense by bringing in Seabrook and Duncan Keith. Then a goalie. Then we brought in offense with Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp. This took 4 years to build and it was UGLY the first two. A hockey town like Chicago wasn't even selling out. Along the way we had a number of role players. Players who were good enough to be competitive. You started seeing spurts from the younger players. Flashes... similar to the rookies this past weekend Kerrigan, Riley, Hankerson, Helu etc. Sound familiar?? It'll happen, just give it another year or two. This is how you build a winning organization.

What you ignore in your post is that the need for many of these stop gaps as you call them is a result of Shanahan's own deciion(s). Take Bowen, Kerrigan, and Cofield. How many of those three players would have signed or drafted if we had stuck to the 4-3 and kept Andre Carter? What Shanahan did was take over a team with a decent/good defense and an awful offense and decided to overhaul the defense. That decision set us back at least 2 years. Instead of focusing on improving the offense we have been focusing on revamping the defense and the offense, as hard as it is to fathom, is worse under Shanahan in year 2 than it was under Zorn.

[KazooSkinsFan]

What Shanahan did was take over a team with a decent/good defense and an awful offense and decided to overhaul the defense. That decision set us back at least 2 years

Nonsense. That's the superficial analysis. You win Superbowls with defense and ours had major weaknesses. By focusing on the D then the O, he's doing it in the right order and as our D gets better our O can develop without the pressure to score on every possession to stay in the game.

Hello, it's been one and a half freaking years. Not 20, no matter how much the gimme now crowd want to say that. What a draft class we had and it included a WR and a RB who look to be keepers as well, not just D.

[Russ Penman]

I heard that Kyle Shanahan was unable to get into his house when they flew back from Miami, the reason is someone painted an END ZONE in the front of his door

[KazooSkinsFan]

I heard that Kyle Shanahan was unable to get into his house when they flew back from Miami, the reason is someone painted an END ZONE in the front of his door

You've been a bit negative for me, but credit where it's due. That was funny...

[chiefhog44]

:roll:

I bet if we cut Shanahan and moved on to the next coach, we'd see a ton of threads next year talking about how no one could win here because Snyder doesn't let any continuity develop.

We've been here before, people.

I honestly cannot believe people want to move on to the next coach already. I've seen it in a couple of random comment threads on news articles. I'm not a ticket-holder, so I can't gauge the atmosphere at games. But is our fan base really that stupid?

You make good points. However, you also only focus on one part of
Shanahan's job - coaching - and that really isn't the problem. The problem
is that Shanahan, no matter his official title, is also the GM here and he is not good at that job. He struggled in that dual role in Denver, it's what
ultimately got him fired, and he should never have been given the authority
over player personnel matters when he was hired here. Like in Denver,
Shanahan the GM is screwing over Shanahan the coach.

What is wrong with his player personnel moves? The guy drafted, T. Williams, Helu, Hankerson, Riley, Kerrigan, J. Jenkins plus a bunch of other
contributors. All of these players are good to all pro already. I am really
psyched about the future of some of these guys. I haven't been able to say
that about many drafts in the last 15 - 20 years. As for his free agents, the
guy brought in Otogwe, Hightower, gaffney, Wilson, Bowen, Coefield, and
Jamal Brown. All of these players are Solid. He got rid of Haynesworth,
Portis, Thomas, Kelly, rabach, Daniels, Campbell, R. Thomas among others.
Most of these players are out of the league, over 30, cancers, or a QB that I
think sucks. He has the line, QB and depth to left to address. What exactly
do you think is so poor? That he made a mistake on McNabb? That he
wasn't able to do more on offense in the offseason? Come on now. Be
patient. I actually had a blast watching this game. Sure we lost, but,
watching, Hank, Riley, Kerrigan, Davis, Bowen, Barnes, and Helu make plays
today is REALLY encouraging, because most are under the age of 26 I think

If those guys are all pros that means that 80 percent of the NFL is all pro
caliber. How many good games have Hankerson and Helu had? Jenkins
hasnt played a down (nobody's fault) but we have no idea if he's good or
bad. Trent so far hasn't played up to his draft position. Kerrigan has played
very well for a rookie.

As for the other players you mentioned.... Brown is a turnstile over at right tackle, Gaffney is essentially useless, Wilson has been a huge downgrade from what we had, Hightower was ineffective before he got hurt, Cofield isn't good, and Bowen is mediocre. Otogwe was a nice pickup.

I never said they were all, all pro's. I think Kerrigan is absolutely an all pro this year. re-read my post bud. good to all pro

I think you fail to see the big picture. The guys he brought in are either good stopgaps or permanent solutions. There are far worse players at those positions around the league. He brought them in to shore up those positions for the time being to make us competitive. It's going to take more than one offseason to fill every position on this team with a good player. Gaffney is a
good #2 or 3. Hightower is a stopgap, Cofield and Bowen are playing pretty well this year. Even Tim Ryan, who knows more about football than you will ever think of knowing, said as much at the beginning of last game. Otogwe is a permanent solution.

Dude, start watching the formation of other championship teams. This is not a cut, but unfortunately, DC teams haven't had too many of those lately and so I'm sure you don't even remember how that is accomplished. I got to watch the Blackhawks, and it started with a GM and coach. Then we invested in a good defense by bringing in Seabrook and Duncan Keith. Then a goalie. Then we brought in offense with Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp. This took 4 years to build and it was UGLY the first two. A hockey town like Chicago wasn't even selling out. Along the way we had a number of role players. Players who were good enough to be competitive. You started seeing spurts from the younger players. Flashes... similar to the rookies this
past weekend Kerrigan, Riley, Hankerson, Helu etc. Sound familiar?? It'll happen, just give it another year or two. This is how you build a winning organization.

What you ignore in your post is that the need for many of these stop gaps as you call them is a result of Shanahan's own deciion(s). Take Bowen, Kerrigan, and Cofield. How many of those three players would have signed or drafted if we had stuck to the 4-3 and kept Andre Carter? What Shanahan did was take over a team with a decent/good defense and an awful offense and decided to overhaul the defense. That decision set us back at least 2 years. Instead of focusing on improving the offense we have been focusing on revamping the defense and the offense, as hard as it is to fathom, is worse under Shanahan in year 2 than it was under Zorn.

Sorry, I don't even understand what you are talking about. How many players would have signed or drafted if we stuck to a 4-3 and kept Andre Carter? Well, 2 of the players mentioned don't even play Carters position, and Kerrigan is better than Carter was in any year of his career, as a rookie with only 9 games under his belt. The decision to switch to a 3-4 set us back two years???? SO WHAT? 2 Years! Are you kidding me? Like, were we going to the Super Bowl if we didn't draft Kerrigan or bring in the defensive free agents last year? Did we pass on any QB's in the draft that you would honestly want right now? Dalton maybe, but that would have Ben such a reach in the 1st.

Half of the defensive starters are new to the team this year. Next year this unit should be soooo tight. Give it one more year to fully judge the switch. I've been watching Pittsburghs defense for years and it's so much better than what we had and this unit is as talented. Just has to play together.

Secondly, the rookies had a very short preseason, so the first 6 games were really their preseason. Hankerson looks legit. Helu looks legit. Kerrigan looks awesome. Jenkins sounds like he was a steal in the 2nd. I personally am looking forward to our defense next year (and still love watching them this year because I think they're tough) and a bunch of additions to the offense. By end of next year, if there are no signs of life on this team, than I'm right there with you. So, as I've stated all along, this is a 3-4 year rebuild and it's being done the right way. 3 for the defense and 4 for the offense

[Smithian]

I'm afraid you are misinformed. We need WR's, CB's, an O-Line, a RB, and a QB.

Don't forget a complete coaching staff!! Can we get Les Miles in here?? PLEASE!!

Stuff like this makes me sad for humanity.

[CanesSkins26]

What Shanahan did was take over a team with a decent/good defense and an awful offense and decided to overhaul the defense. That decision set us back at least 2 years

Nonsense. That's the superficial analysis. You win Superbowls with defense and ours had major weaknesses. By focusing on the D then the O, he's doing it in the right order and as our D gets better our O can develop without the pressure to score on every possession to stay in the game.

Hello, it's been one and a half freaking years. Not 20, no matter how much the gimme now crowd want to say that. What a draft class we had and it included a WR and a RB who look to be keepers as well, not just D.

You can address weaknesses without blowing the entire thing up and switching to an entirely new system. Our defense did have weaknesses, but those could have been addressed my adding to what we already had in place.

[Skinsfan55]

Well, 1 1/2 years in Shanahan basically had to hit the re-set button. McNabb flopped and set the team back another year leaving us with Rexy and Beck. The offensive line is still a mess, there are few weapons in the passing game, the running game sucks... on the bright side the defensive line is decent. Carriker, Bowen and Cofield are okay and with Jenkins, Nield and Golston they have some decent depth. The LB corps is okay. Orakpo, Kerrigan, Fletcher... Reilly, Fox, Alexander. In the secondary we're a little light, need some better depth at CB...

It's the offense though that is the biggest problem. Chris Myers is a free agent, former Bronco and Texan would be an awesome fit at center. If we draft, say Landry Jones and shore up the line we might be okay. MAYBE.

[StorminMormon86]

That's a good point about McNabb. Shanahan took a gamble in getting him, he was a bust, and now we are officially where we should have been last year IMO.

[GoSkins]

Well, 1 1/2 years in Shanahan basically had to hit the re-set button. McNabb flopped and set the team back another year leaving us with Rexy and Beck. The offensive line is still a mess, there are few weapons in the passing game, the running game sucks... on the bright side the defensive line is decent. Carriker, Bowen and Cofield are okay and with Jenkins, Nield and Golston they have some decent depth. The LB corps is okay. Orakpo, Kerrigan, Fletcher... Reilly, Fox, Alexander. In the secondary we're a little light, need some better depth at CB...

It's the offense though that is the biggest problem. Chris Myers is a free agent, former Bronco and Texan would be an awesome fit at center. If we draft, say Landry Jones and shore up the line we might be okay. MAYBE.

I agree with your overall assessment except for your last point. Montgomery is doing a very good job at C. On the OL our priority should be OG and quality depth at OT.

[Chris Luva Luva]

The offensive line is still a mess

The starting offensive line was a definite improvement. Depth is still a work in progress. It was always going to take more than one year to restock this team. Next years reserves may include 1 or 2 people who started this year.

The RB situation is decent but heavily dependent on o-line and QB performance.

[markshark84]

The offensive line is still a mess

The starting offensive line was a definite improvement. Depth is still a work in progress. It was always going to take more than one year to restock this team. Next years reserves may include 1 or 2 people who started this year.

The RB situation is decent but heavily dependent on o-line and QB performance.

I agree with this. The OL is improved from last year, although it lacks serious depth. Depth takes time and the ability to draft quality players. If we draft well in this upcoming draft, I see potentially Chester, Brown, and/or Cook being reserves next year.

In terms of the RB position, I totally agree that RB production is directly related to the OL and QB. The same can be said for the WR position. I hold the opinion that if you have a good OL and QB, the RB and WR positions will have solid years. You can have an all world RB, but without a good OL, they are useless -- and vice versa, an all world OL can make a mediocre RB look great. If you have a good OL that provides a good QB adequate protection, then the WR will have anywhere from 1.5-2 additional seconds to complete their route -- making it significantly easier to get open.

[KazooSkinsFan]

What Shanahan did was take over a team with a decent/good defense and an awful offense and decided to overhaul the defense. That decision set us back at least 2 years

Nonsense. That's the superficial analysis. You win Superbowls with defense and ours had major weaknesses. By focusing on the D then the O, he's doing it in the right order and as our D gets better our O can develop without the pressure to score on every possession to stay in the game.

Hello, it's been one and a half freaking years. Not 20, no matter how much the gimme now crowd want to say that. What a draft class we had and it included a WR and a RB who look to be keepers as well, not just D.

You can address weaknesses without blowing the entire thing up and switching to an entirely new system. Our defense did have weaknesses, but those could have been addressed my adding to what we already had in place.

Not getting turnovers, sacks, pressure or being able to make key stops particularly late in the game aren't tweaks

[SkinsJock]

.. Not getting turnovers, sacks, pressure or being able to make key stops particularly late in the game aren't tweaks

man - I feel the pain

REF our defense - everybody pointed to the "rankings" - "we're a top 5 defense, why are we messing with this, leave it alone"
that top 5 defense NEVER stopped anybody from scoring the points needed to win a game

we ARE getting the pieces together for our defense here and these are all young guys

[Kilmer72]

That top 5 or 10 or even top 12 defense was having the same troubles as this one. No offense. Lets be real here. Williams from the Saints proved that you do not have to have a 34 defense to create turn overs. Look what he did with less talent on that team according to him.

[CanesSkins26]

What Shanahan did was take over a team with a decent/good defense and an awful offense and decided to overhaul the defense. That decision set us back at least 2 years

Nonsense. That's the superficial analysis. You win Superbowls with defense and ours had major weaknesses. By focusing on the D then the O, he's doing it in the right order and as our D gets better our O can develop without the pressure to score on every possession to stay in the game.

Hello, it's been one and a half freaking years. Not 20, no matter how much the gimme now crowd want to say that. What a draft class we had and it included a WR and a RB who look to be keepers as well, not just D.

You can address weaknesses without blowing the entire thing up and switching to an entirely new system. Our defense did have weaknesses, but those could have been addressed my adding to what we already had in place.

Not getting turnovers, sacks, pressure or being able to make key stops particularly late in the game aren't tweaks

In 2009 we were 6th in the NFL in sacks and 7th in forced fumbles. This year we are doing well in both categories also. We still suck at interceptions and are ranked near the bottom of the NFL. So we are still good at what we were good at before the change in scheme and still bad at what we struggled with in the 4-3.

More generally, though, none of the items that you mentioned are deficiencies in the 4-3, and all could be corrected with changes to the 4-3 instead of a complete overhaul.

As an example, the Giants (4-3 defense) are leading the NFL in sacks. Of the top three teams in ints, 2 run the 4-3 and one runs the 3-4. Of the top 4 in fumbles, 2 run the 4-3 and two run the

[KazooSkinsFan]

In 2009 we were 6th in the NFL in sacks and 7th in forced fumbles. This year we are doing well in both categories also. We still suck at interceptions and are ranked near the bottom of the NFL. So we are still good at what we were good at before the change in scheme and still bad at what we struggled with in the 4-3.

More generally, though, none of the items that you mentioned are deficiencies in the 4-3, and all could be corrected with changes to the 4-3 instead of a complete overhaul.

As an example, the Giants (4-3 defense) are leading the NFL in sacks. Of the top three teams in ints, 2 run the 4-3 and one runs the 3-4. Of the top 4 in fumbles, 2 run the 4-3 and two run the

I'm not arguing that we had to go to the 3-4, I'm saying that the best way to get good in the NFL is to build a good D and then a good O. I'm saying that if we are going to go to the 3-4, start with that, not the offense. But our D whether it was 4-3 or 3-4 had issues beyond the yards it was giving up which is what the rankings were based on that were not just tweaks. You can argue whatever stats you want, I was there and no stat's going to change my memory.