4 In A Woe, Part 1

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:32 am

grampi wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:by this time next season we'll be thinking playoffs
I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard somebody say that. I'll believe it when I see it...wins are the only thing that matters...everything else is garbage...

To casual and fair weather fans, that's true. But people who love the game and the team like to go through the process with them of getting there.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:10 am

It's a mistake to think that fans that are patient about the progress are not just as passionate about winning games
we all want the Redskins to win each and every game

I'm just as tired and frustrated as the next guy about this franchise

The Washington Redskins are getting better and are not far off from having a chance at the playoffs
We need to give these guys the time it will take to have this franchise in the playoffs each and every year

Being in the playoffs with a team that is not deserving of being there is not at all satisfying to me

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:24 am

This will be a below average team until we fix our qb position. Our D is much better, will improve with Jenkins next year and a healthy Landry. I know a lot of fans rag on D Hall...I think once we get an offense that can be trusted to move the ball, our defense will get more aggressive and the corners will not be covering for 7 seconds. When we start rushing 5 pretty consistently, we know our offense is improved. Kerrigan and Orakpo are top quality at applying pressuring, NOT pass coverage.
I'm not against replacing DHall, but that's becaus I don't think he's worth the cap space he takes up.

Today, Mike S doesn't trust his offense to score so the defense plays conservatively. Blatche was doing this under Zorn...we all hated his prevent defense but there was always fear that an easy td was the end of the game, the offense stunk so bad we couldn't rely on them to come back. We play defense still where long drives are going to happen but we'll do whatever it takes to stop the one long play for a TD. Our hope, the opponents offense makes a mistake, penalty and has to kick a field goal, or punt. The Eagles didn't long play us earlier this year.

We need a qb first. We could use two more OL to improve our line and improve our backups (current starters move to backups). Another WR or two is a must too.

Was hoping we could snag Carson Palmer but NO way would have given up 2 @ 1st round picks for him. He's really good, but too old to warrant two top picks.

Draft:
1st round -- QB
2nd round -- OL
3rd round -- OL or WR
4th round -- OL or WR
4th round -- maybe another qb

Free agency:
WR
CB
OL

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:30 am

Last 8 Super Bowl winners:

Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
Ben Roth
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Ben Roth
Tom Brady
Tom Brady

See anything?

Yep, gotta have a top tier qb to win now!

There have been a few winners with marginal qbs over the last 30 years (Redskins mainly) but without a great qb, you're not going to do it.

We must get a qb!!!!!

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:47 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
grampi wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:by this time next season we'll be thinking playoffs
I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard somebody say that. I'll believe it when I see it...wins are the only thing that matters...everything else is garbage...
To casual and fair weather fans, that's true. But people who love the game and the team like to go through the process with them of getting there.

I love the game and the team and I'm sick of the process. All the process has given us fans over the last 20 years is a sucky team and grief....it's time for some results!

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:52 am

OK fredp - I'd go along with some of that

The BIGGEST issue is the QB position AND the fact we don't have a QB .... RIGHT NOW

We not only need to draft a QB, we need someone better than what we've got to handle the offense

HOPEFULLY - we add components that make the offense more effective AND Kyle UPGRADES his game planning BIG TIME

Defensively we're not far off
- we do need to be able to get better pressure and that will make the secondary concerns not look so bad

We need to draft a future great QB

AND we need to find someone to play QB better than what we've seen these past 8 games

BOT - These next 4 games are great opportunities for relatively unknown players or marginal players to step up

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:00 pm

grampi wrote:I love the game and the team and I'm sick of the process. All the process has given us fans over the last 20 years is a sucky team and grief....it's time for some results!

And if I'm Shannahan and you're blasting me in my second year over your pent up gimme attitude with your rationale that it's been 20 years and you're sick of working on it, then why do I bother?

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:27 pm

I don't think a team's record and and its progress are all that highly correlated. Sometimes your record takes a step back while your talent takes a step forward. That's why I wrote this blog post:

http://www.the-hogs.net/blogs/2011/11/1 ... look-like/

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:39 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:When is the dead line on when we are allowed to bitch?

I SET THE DATE FOR BITCH'N GOT IT???

You all may OFFICIALLY "bitch" bout it if we lose another game. I myself may choose to express my "realistic" views if you will..

.. ESPECIALLY if we lose to MIA. If we lose to MIA, you good people may see a different side of LPJ.

Oh yes, there is a darkside.. it's deep within but like a scavenger it lurks.. be afraid, be very very afraid. Scared even. Probably along the lines of terrified. Heck, I'd lockup the kids in the room just to be safe cause they may have nightmares. Basically I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I lose it about my Redskins, it WILL NOT be pretty.

gushogs · Post by **gushogs** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:15 pm

grampi wrote:I'm so sick of hearing that. This team has been "a team in the making" for the last 20 years. How long does it take to build a winning team? 100 years?

Chicago Cubs ring a bell?????

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:22 pm

My fellow Redskins fans... YOU MAY START YOUR BITCH'N!!!!

"damn LPJ, you just now realized that?"
"sheesh LPJ, holdon for hope much?"

Hahahahhaha. The dolphins, now that's funny to me.
.. but I did start the Fins defense in some of my leagues though.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:28 pm

BigRedskinDaddy wrote:And we're getting worse.

Wrong.

BigRedskinDaddy · Post by **BigRedskinDaddy** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:55 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Wrong.

The numbers say otherwise.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:06 pm

Can you really not see any players on this franchise that with just a few others added might not make for a good unit next year

I understand that we've lost to a couple of teams that we're better than
we're really not far off if we can add a really good QB .. a CB that can cover a little better .... a .....

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:53 pm

The list goes on and on sir...

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:53 pm

BigRedskinDaddy wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Wrong.
The numbers say otherwise.

Then the numbers are not what you should be looking at.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:00 pm

Sorry, can't ignore the numbers anymore. I've been shielding my eyes all season long. THIS was the game that I said I'd move my hands and now I wish I had kept them over my eyes. The numbers reflect the team and is actually a great way to tell how our guys are doing. However there are some numbers that don't come up like our individual OL players making a block or getting beat on those blocks. So Emoses, I can dig what you mean by look at something other than numbers, but when I do look at something other than numbers, it's just as scary or worse than the actual numbers. Give me the stats for 500 over looking at everything else because its very very depressing.

Dolphins.. that was the one game that I demanded we win. Not the Panthers game and not the Bills game either... the frickin Dolphins with Matt Moore, Reggie Bush, and Brandon Marshall. That's ridiculous.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:39 pm

Anyone looking at this team and saying they aren't getting worse is blind...

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:43 pm

All of these injuries certainly aren't making matters any better. You can't fault Shanny & Co. for the injuries. Well I guess if you consider Rex Grossman an injury, which I do.

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:09 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:My fellow Redskins fans... YOU MAY START YOUR BITCH'N!!!!

"damn LPJ, you just now realized that?"
"sheesh LPJ, holdon for hope much?"

Hahahahhaha. The dolphins, now that's funny to me.
.. but I did start the Fins defense in some of my leagues though.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:02 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Sorry, can't ignore the numbers anymore. I've been shielding my eyes all season long. THIS was the game that I said I'd move my hands and now I wish I had kept them over my eyes. The numbers reflect the team and is actually a great way to tell how our guys are doing. However there are some numbers that don't come up like our individual OL players making a block or getting beat on those blocks. So Emoses, I can dig what you mean by look at something other than numbers, but when I do look at something other than numbers, it's just as scary or worse than the actual numbers. Give me the stats for 500 over looking at everything else because its very very depressing.

Dolphins.. that was the one game that I demanded we win. Not the Panthers game and not the Bills game either... the frickin Dolphins with Matt Moore, Reggie Bush, and Brandon Marshall. That's ridiculous.

Sorry this took me so long to respond to man. I'm just returning from a self imposed vacation from my hog brethren and the skins. Needed a little time to breath to gain perspective on this season (and to stop scaring the crap out of my family every sunday).

You hit on some of the big kinds of things I meant by "the numbers are not what you should be looking at" I'd also add route running (really for Armstrong, Hankerson, Paul; guys who will be here long term and who clearly need mor polish), blitz pickups (helu, royster, hightower MONTGOMERY), how they try (if not succeed) at fighting when the other team has it more together than them, etc. This team is not going to set the world on fire and yeah, the o-line is heartbreaking a lot of the time. BUT when I think about the depth that is being created behind the current starters as well as the increased level of competition for back up roles once we draft a new RT and G (possibly2), THAT'S WHAT makes me realize this team is headed somewhere. When I see a guy like Helu, build over 11weeks to where he is now, when I see (not popular I know) Trent Williams getting better, through injuries no less, and see accountability from a D.Hall (of ALL PEOPLE), when I see Perry Riley showing that he's a sh*t load more and better than bad kick off return penalties for illegal blocks in the back (ESPECIALLY THAT HE'S CHILLIN AT LUNCH TIME WITH LONDON FLETCHER), I get amped. That 'ish is foundation building (so by the way is not mortgaging the future for the now by trying to bring in flash rather than substance and keeping and expanding our draft picks). For us, in year 2 of an actual plan the numbers and ESPECIALLY who we beat and when is a slightly myopic lens through which to gauge "improvement". Its a legit lens, but the most dangerous.

Not saying those things don't matter, its just that when you start from a position of such back asswardry, there's a lot of 'ish to fix before you get to W-Ls and fantasy points. Don't mean that condescendingly, just hopefully, realisticaly. This team is simply too far away from the product we deserve (I'll kill all of you if you tell anyone else I said this, but think Ravens) to be talking about wins, losses, stats and playoffs. If you're going to acknowledge that this team was in the crapper, then you gotta acknowledge that the stench of crap takes a while to get rid of. Dolphins loss or not.

Hard to swallow case in point: not paying carlos rogers what he thought he was worth in light of his steadfast refusal to own up to his own shortcomings and get the f*&$!!* over himself and his desire to get out of dc. That mike knew he had talent but said pass anyway is the kind of long term football decision that isn't going to be popular at times (say when you're now number one is giving up 4 and 21 plays right in front of him), but is immediately necessary to get US where WE need to be.

I know that all of this will be funny to us in the very near future when we're straight punishing everyone in our path. I see signs, they're fleeting and frustration can easily outweigh optimism, but we will be able to bring down bars with Hail to Redskins for entire Sunday afternoons shortly.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:51 am

Well, if I'd have seen this article, I guess I could have just cited it and made that last post a lot shorter.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -perry-ri/

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:05 pm

There are many here that have realised all season long that this franchise is getting better

some just look at stats or the fact that players are not here and doing better elsewhere and (in their SMALL opinion) could be doing better here - BS

this franchise is getting younger and while mistakes have been made is actually not far off from putting a consistently competitive product on the field each and every week

it did not help that we went 3-1 to open the season - we are NOT that good

we are getting there and hopefully will finish the season strong and find that we have a bunch more players to build around

looking forward is kind of fun if you're a Redskins fan

the eagles and giants fans don't have much going for them

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:08 pm

emoses14 wrote:Well, if I'd have seen this article, I guess I could have just cited it and made that last post a lot shorter.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -perry-ri/

Reasons to be happy on offense:

Helu and Torain
Hankerson
Moss
Davis and Cooley and Paulsen
WR backups: Gaffney, Armstrong, Stallworth, etc.
Banks
Williams and Montgomery (maybe)

Potential stars: Helu, Hankerson
Stars: Davis, Cooley, Banks, Moss
Question marks: Williams

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:59 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:Reasons to be happy on offense:
Williams and Montgomery (maybe)

Did ch just say we have reason to be happy Williams is on our offense?

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4 In A Woe, Part 1

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