Redskins vs. 49ers - Postgame Thread

[The Hogster]

Luck, Barkley, or Jones will be Redskins next year. More thank likely it will be Barkley.

[RayNAustin]

While I understand what you are trying to say ... I've got a slightly different take on the matter.

First, Jim Zorn did not deplete the talent in his brief stint as the latest Redskin Coach "Scapegoat", and as much as the Danny-Vinny team did in the earlier years ... from the Gibbs II era forward, I cannot find nearly as much fault with them as most people tend to do. This is kind of being stuck in a time warp, and not really valid. They picked Orakpo, with the only #1 pick during the 2 years of Zorn, and Fred Davis with a #2, and the worst move was Haynesworth, which Haynesworth himself was to blame .. as he certainly had the talent, and will be replaced at my earliest opportunity.

Going back to Gibbs II, the Redskins were primed in 2005 with 2 fist round picks which Gibbs chose to use on Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers ... and that ultimately set the team back several years .... out of 21 draft picks under Gibbs, 4 were 1st rounders, and only 1, Laron Landry is with the team (Sean Taylor's tragic death accounts for 1) ... and of that 21 picks only 6 are currently with the team. Campbell and Rogers KILLED this team, and not 1 pick from 2005 panned out. We picked cinder block hands, while DeMarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman, Jamal Brown, and Aaron Rogers were still on the board ... and then picked Campbell. Can you imagine the difference it would have made picking Aaron Rogers, and DeMarcus Ware?

Now, fast forward to Shanahan .... he picked McNabb, and Grossman and Beck. And for all his faults, McNabb led the league in big plays down field prior to being benched after 7 games ... and that was in spite of an O-line that was horrible, no running game to speak of, and an entire team learning a new offense and a new defense. And McNabb is the only Redskin QB of the 3 which actually has a winning record, and the Redskins WOULD BE BETTER OFF NOW, with McNabb, rather than Grossman or Beck, though that became a non-option after the underhanded and disrespectful ways in which the two Shanahans treated him last year.

So, when you evaluate personnel decisions, when you look at the totality of Shanahan's choices and utilization of talent ... it's a mixed bag at best, and the fact is, the offense has regressed significantly in year two, while progress should be the only cause for optimism.

Now, the real worrisome issue is the "I'll bet my house on Beck" stuff. Here's a guy who has NEVER won a single game in the NFL, and from the performance we've seen so far, that shouldn't be surprising, WTF are these guys thinking?

In the era of free agency, you cannot take a long term building project approach, because there is too much turnover, and too many potential failures in draft picks which often don't prove out either way for a couple of years. The Redskins need a legitimate QB to build around, but how can we trust Shanahan to be the guy who can pick the right guy? So far, he's 0 for 3 in two years, just regarding QBs.

One more failed QB experiment next year, and this team will find itself in the same boat we're in today, 4 years from now.

Some great points Ray. The only nit I'd pick is I'd say Shannahan is not yet rateable for picking talent rather than being a "mixed bag."

I suggest you consult his record over the many years in Denver which was a mixed bag.

I'd like to point out the most recent issue which defines Shanahan and the situation we find ourselves in presently.


(Mike Shanahan - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... ins-oc-job )

"I'm the one that told Kyle not to come," Shanahan said. "I said, 'This is going to be a work in progress, it's not going to happen overnight. You're with an established team, you've got your ducks in order.' I said, 'We're going to have to rebuild this football team, starting on offense.'

There are three major issues I have with this latest "Foot in mouth disease".

1) Talk about dissing your football team and the talent you apparently don't have and broadcasting that to your players through the media that hey, you guys suck, and lack talent, and will be replaced at my earliest opportunity.

2) My Son doesn't have the players to be successful, and we need to get new ones ... clearly making excuses for lack of progress on offense and exonerating your son from any culpability in that lack of progress .... even though they picked many of those players he just dissed.

3) As long as father is the HC ... the OC will not be held accountable as would be the case if nepotism wasn't the overriding factor, which ensures that judgment will be clouded.

This also brings into question WHY would you attempt to rebuild the defense and offense at the same time, when that's really not feasible to begin with, particularly when he clearly admits that the offense needed rebuilding? Lots of personnel moves were required to switch from the 43 to a 34 defense, when the defense was really not the area of most need. This was a major factor in the Haynesworth fight ... and necessitated several personnel changes, and still, in year 2, the defense isn't remarkably better than the the defense he inherited, while those efforts and personnel moves could have focused on upgrading the weakest link first ... offense.

Many of us thought it odd that he'd undertake the 34 switch when we clearly did not have the personnel to run it effectively, which has ultimately contributed to us not achieving the talent upgrades on offense this team desperately needed and could have been achieved.

Overall, what I've seen from DAY ONE .. are a list of inexplicable decisions which I find to be poorly conceived by this group, well beyond just miscalculations regarding 3 QBs.

And these decisions don't (in my opinion) fall under the category of "subjective" ... they seemed clearly misconceived from the outset, and the results are what should have been expected. Worse, I see no reason to expect honest self evaluation from the Shana-Klan.

[1niksder]

Luck, Barkley, or Jones will be Redskins next year. More thank likely it will be Barkley.

Robert Griffin III is growing on me, Luck and maybe Barkley will require a trade up and the Skins can't afford to give up picks.

[PAPDOG67]

Luck, Barkley, or Jones will be Redskins next year. More thank likely it will be Barkley.

Barkley would be fine with me. I've watched him a few times now and he can make all the throws, and he is suppose to be a very good leader. He always looks calm and in control in and out of the huddle. Oh and for those of you who say we would have to trade up, I'm more than fine with that. If Shanny tabs Barkley as the guy, then you go get him and don't look back. They way it looking now we should be in the top 10, so we won't have to move too far.

[DarthMonk]

Absolutely. I'd've drafted him in a heartbeat. I'm just asking a history question. Why did he fall so far? Mallett fell due to "character issues." I'm trying to point out the foolishness of some GMs when they see a huge talent who had pre-marital sex or had a beer at a frat party.

Why did he fall?



DarthMonk

PS - Did Rodgers also have "character issues?"

DarthMonk

Are you serious?

My point wasn't about the draft, it was about your question about if he has character issues.

Yeah. You asked if I was serious. Yes. It was a serious question.

If you're not clear about how a self centered, me first, constant bad attitude who blames his shortcomings on anyone but himself isn't a character issue then I don't know what is.

That is quite clear but about whom are you talking - Rodgers?

You didn't say did he have a drug problem or did he beat people up or was he lazy, you said does he have a character issue. Yes, he does.

That's pretty close. I asked if he had character issues (at draft time).

Hopefully you are now clear on what I wanted to know and the next few posts after the one I just quoted pretty much answered my question.

DarthMonk

[DarthMonk]

Absolutely. I'd've drafted him in a heartbeat. I'm just asking a history question. Why did he fall so far? Mallett fell due to "character issues." I'm trying to point out the foolishness of some GMs when they see a huge talent who had pre-marital sex or had a beer at a frat party.

Why did he fall?



DarthMonk

Drinking was part of it.

Rumors were that he partied a lot, but they were things he did his one year at Michigan as an 18-year-old freshman before he transferred to Arkansas

He wasn't considered a top prospect because of reports that his below-average athleticism means he wouldn't fit in a West Coast offense or any other scheme that asks the quarterback to roll out. Then the rumors came out that he admitted to the drug use at the combines. Throw in reports that he needed to improve his footwork in the pocket, especially sidestepping pressure, and concerns about his ability to handle pressure situations and you can see why he dropped.

If I recall correctly when he reportedly admitted to smoking pot the character questions issue was no longer a issue.

In that heartbeat that it would take you to draft him would you have taken him at #10?

After further review I believe you are talking about Mallett. The guy I would've drafted in a heartbeat was Rodgers. I absolutley would have used an early 3rd on Mallett instead of acquiring an extra pick in the 7th round.

DarthMonk

[1niksder]

After further review I believe you are talking about Mallett. The guy I would've drafted in a heartbeat was Rodgers. I absolutley would have used an early 3rd on Mallett instead of acquiring an extra pick in the 7th round.

DarthMonk

After your post in response to Kaz I figured that out

Did Rodgers really drop? He was the second QB selected in a draft that didn't have a lot of teams needing a QB.

[The Hogster]

Luck, Barkley, or Jones will be Redskins next year. More thank likely it will be Barkley.

Robert Griffin III is growing on me, Luck and maybe Barkley will require a trade up and the Skins can't afford to give up picks.

You must be assuming that we win another game.


I'd prefer not to trade up for those guys. But, at this point, I'm getting apathetic about our ability to even get the other positions right.

[Countertrey]

Luck, Barkley, or Jones will be Redskins next year. More thank likely it will be Barkley.

Robert Griffin III is growing on me, Luck and maybe Barkley will require a trade up and the Skins can't afford to give up picks.

Whiff for Griff, baby!


My work is done, here.

[joebagadonuts]

joebagadonuts! Welcome back.

What I-B said

Thank you, kind sirs.

[Countertrey]

joebagadonuts! Welcome back.

What I-B said

Thank you, kind sirs.

Holy Crap! Joebagadonuts!

[Hoss]

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[KazooSkinsFan]

Some great points Ray. The only nit I'd pick is I'd say Shannahan is not yet rateable for picking talent rather than being a "mixed bag."

I suggest you consult his record over the many years in Denver which was a mixed bag.

I agree with Denver, I just meant in DC. I do think he deserves a new shot. Doesn't sound like we're getting any good arguments here.

[KazooSkinsFan]

That is quite clear but about whom are you talking - Rodgers?

I was massively confused on this one. I thought we were talking about Carlos Rogers. He was a high draft pick, we dumped him. Sorry, my bad.

[joebagadonuts]

I'd like to welcome the new guy, joebagadonuts, to the site. Please feel free to check out our site! I think you may take a liking to it. Welcome!!

Okay, I guess I deserved that. It's good to be back.