Grossman v. Beck

[SprintRightOption]

Explain to me how the Carolina Panthers have a worse record of 2-6 than the Redskins, yet they have the number one over all pick in the draft at quarterback? Would that mean that having a very good quarterback is not a magic pill?

[Countertrey]

Explain to me how the Carolina Panthers have a worse record of 2-6 than the Redskins, yet they have the number one over all pick in the draft at quarterback? Would that mean that having a very good quarterback is not a magic pill?

ding, ding, ding!


On the other hand... you do have to have a quarterback who is capable of managing the offense, scoring reliably, and not giving the opponent field postition... we certainly don't have that, yet...

[DarthMonk]

For what it's worth Mallett was the 74th pick. We had already picked 2 keepers (Kerrigan and Jenkins) and had the Hankerson pick (79) in hand. By passing on Mallett we ultimately obtained a few extra 7th rounders. He compares to Campbell in stature only. Campbell never lit up the SEC all year.

I think my real point is this: Shanny has pulled a mini-Danny. Danny is the kid who just learned to drive a tractor. To avoid the ditch he oversteeers and ends up in the other ditch. Then he repeats - FA splash - Marty - Spurrious - Gibbs - Zorn - Shanny. Which dufous (Spurrious, Zorn, ?) is next? Shanny has begun this oversteering trend in player acquisition. First he fell for the "we're close" trap and traded picks for Monovan Dick-nab. He then oversteered and traded down too much. The first 1 or 2 were great but then he kept trading down and started losing value. He had a shot at the QB with perhaps the best skill set in the NCAA. Oh, that's right - Mallett drank beer in college.

I just saw so many guys open yesterday and can't help but see Mallett in his 8th game with us making defenses play honest because he is incredibly accurate and made all the throws in meaningful games year after year in the SEC ... as opposed to, you know, a 30-year-old "rookie" who hasn't played a meaningful game in years double clutching with open guys waving their hands as they immediately break into the clear.

We have 2 guys who cannot make all the throws. They have pedestrian arms. They are shortish and slowish. One might say they suck. We coulda had a truly gifted player with incred upside for almost free with the two early trade-downs we astutely made.

OMFG

DarthMonk

The Patriots were Pick Wealthy... they could afford to risk a pick on a very talented quarterback who could, potentially, blow up... for them, it's a low risk, high reward transaction... If he turns out to be the second coming of Big Ben, that's great for them... if he turns into Ryan Leaf... meh... he's gone...
It was exactly the kind of move that I expected from them.

We, on the other hand, had no such luxury. The picks had to be contributors. We could not roll the dice on them. We could not take a chance on a personality like Mallet... The chances of success for those first 3 picks had to be very high...

[Kilmer72]

It's the worse team we've had here for some time

What are you, 16? Seriously. Spurrier, Zorn, terrible and hopeless. Our D has improved from last year and actually gets pressure. They were one of the worst in the NFL and now they are mixed. The like 3 starters we have playing on O can't beat the 11 guys on D they are playing, wow, you're onto something there.

I think we are better too Kazoo but you can't blame Crazy for thinking so. Zorn actually had more wins with older selfish players that didn't care. We are rebuilding no matter how many times Shanny doesn't want to admit it.

[Irn-Bru]

Why don't you tell us how you really feel, DarthMonk? Let it all out, man!



I hear you. But I think we'll get our guy in April.

[Kilmer72]

Grossman v. Beck? As bad as Rex is; he is WAY BETTER than Beck. I know Rex isn't the answer but at least he can win some games. We can't say that for Beck at this time. Maybe we can after 5 or 6 more games but at this time he NEVER HAS WON in the NFL. I doubt we can win against Miami at this point

Now I am starting to think about those people that came on here saying suck for Luck. I still do not believe in that...I want to win but, I understand now what they were thinking.

If we leave Beck in there for the rest of the season we might have a shot at getting a franchise QB. It doesn't have to be Luck. Or we can stick Rex back in there and maybe get to 8 and 8.

Last weeks game....I wont blame Beck too much. He never had time and hasn't played a real game in years under those circumstances. This last game though? He had time. The same time that Rex had.

What makes me laugh is Beck is 30 years old and has been at least a back up for teams. When is he not officially a rookie?

[Kilmer72]

Grossman v. Beck? As bad as Rex is; he is WAY BETTER than Beck. I know Rex isn't the answer but at least he can win some games. We can't say that for Beck at this time. Maybe we can after 5 or 6 more games but at this time he NEVER HAS WON in the NFL. I doubt we can win against Miami at this point

Now I am starting to think about those people that came on here saying suck for Luck. I still do not believe in that...I want to win but, I understand now what they were thinking.

If we leave Beck in there for the rest of the season we might have a shot at getting a franchise QB. It doesn't have to be Luck. Or we can stick Rex back in there and maybe get to 8 and 8.

Last weeks game....I wont blame Beck too much. He never had time and hasn't played a real game in years under those circumstances. This last game though? He had time. The same time that Rex had.

What makes me laugh is Beck is 30 years old and has been at least a back up for teams. When is he not officially a rookie?

“I don’t want to be like a selfish guy, going, ‘Hey, I’m open, I’m open, I’m open,’ ” he said. “But it’s certain times during the game where I will look to him like, ‘Hey, just throw it. Throw it to me. Give me a chance to turn things around.’ ”

Shanahan said San Francisco’s zone defense prevented the Redskins from getting open receivers downfield, but Beck said after the game he could have done a better job of finding big-yardage plays.
“I was getting open,” said Davis, who finished with 42 yards on four catches. “A few times I was open, I don’t know if Beck had enough time to hit me.”

Said Gaffney: “For whatever reason, John goes through his reads, a lot of times he didn’t come to me. That’s neither here nor there. That’s for coach to talk to John about.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/be ... story.html

[skinpride1]

For what it's worth Mallett was the 74th pick. We had already picked 2 keepers (Kerrigan and Jenkins) and had the Hankerson pick (79) in hand. By passing on Mallett we ultimately obtained a few extra 7th rounders. He compares to Campbell in stature only. Campbell never lit up the SEC all year.

I think my real point is this: Shanny has pulled a mini-Danny. Danny is the kid who just learned to drive a tractor. To avoid the ditch he oversteeers and ends up in the other ditch. Then he repeats - FA splash - Marty - Spurrious - Gibbs - Zorn - Shanny. Which dufous (Spurrious, Zorn, ?) is next? Shanny has begun this oversteering trend in player acquisition. First he fell for the "we're close" trap and traded picks for Monovan Dick-nab. He then oversteered and traded down too much. The first 1 or 2 were great but then he kept trading down and started losing value. He had a shot at the QB with perhaps the best skill set in the NCAA. Oh, that's right - Mallett drank beer in college.

I just saw so many guys open yesterday and can't help but see Mallett in his 8th game with us making defenses play honest because he is incredibly accurate and made all the throws in meaningful games year after year in the SEC ... as opposed to, you know, a 30-year-old "rookie" who hasn't played a meaningful game in years double clutching with open guys waving their hands as they immediately break into the clear.

We have 2 guys who cannot make all the throws. They have pedestrian arms. They are shortish and slowish. One might say they suck. We coulda had a truly gifted player with incred upside for almost free with the two early trade-downs we astutely made.

OMFG

DarthMonk

The Patriots were Pick Wealthy... they could afford to risk a pick on a very talented quarterback who could, potentially, blow up... for them, it's a low risk, high reward transaction... If he turns out to be the second coming of Big Ben, that's great for them... if he turns into Ryan Leaf... meh... he's gone...
It was exactly the kind of move that I expected from them.

We, on the other hand, had no such luxury. The picks had to be contributors. We could not roll the dice on them. We could not take a chance on a personality like Mallet... The chances of success for those first 3 picks had to be very high...

One thing for sure Mike better get it right next year.

Sorry but Darthmonk is right Shanny has done a piss poor job at QB so far.

Now bite me if you don't like it.

[tammet]

It seems VERY likely that J.Beck will be the starter here for several years.
Essentially, he is a rookie and is making rookie mistakes, but with each passing
week he is quickly eliminating many of the prior week's shortcomings.
This week you will see him combine getting rid of the ball quicker and making better deep reads. Putting grossman back in is not even a remote option as long as Beck keeps improving at this rate. Additionally, Beck is by no means
the sole problem with the offense.

[KazooSkinsFan]

It's the worse team we've had here for some time

What are you, 16? Seriously. Spurrier, Zorn, terrible and hopeless. Our D has improved from last year and actually gets pressure. They were one of the worst in the NFL and now they are mixed. The like 3 starters we have playing on O can't beat the 11 guys on D they are playing, wow, you're onto something there.

I think we are better too Kazoo but you can't blame Crazy for thinking so. Zorn actually had more wins with older selfish players that didn't care. We are rebuilding no matter how many times Shanny doesn't want to admit it.

I never said my measure of we're better is measured purely by wins. I'm expecting a bunch of clueless people who have no freaking idea what they are talking about or how to build a successful organization to jump on that. Go for it.

[skinpride1]

It seems VERY likely that J.Beck will be the starter here for several years.
Essentially, he is a rookie and is making rookie mistakes, but with each passing
week he quickly eliminating many of the prior week's shortcomings.
This week you will see him combine getting rid of the ball quicker and making better deep reads. Putting grossman back in is not even a remote option as long as Beck keeps improving at this rate. Additionally, Beck is by no means
the sole problem with the offense.

Back to preseason football again. Remember we are playing the Dolphins this week. They make any QB look good.

I do like the younger players getting a chance to learn and show what they got and growing pains are part of it.

Maybe it will start to click for Beck but I have my doubts hard to make chicken salad with chicken Sh%^.

If he does look better against the dolphins don't put to much into it. Until he can put together a few games with the same strides.

[Kilmer72]

It seems VERY likely that J.Beck will be the starter here for several years.
Essentially, he is a rookie and is making rookie mistakes, but with each passing
week he is quickly eliminating many of the prior week's shortcomings.
This week you will see him combine getting rid of the ball quicker and making better deep reads. Putting grossman back in is not even a remote option as long as Beck keeps improving at this rate. Additionally, Beck is by no means
the sole problem with the offense.

Welcome aboard tammet. I hope Beck isn't our starter next year unless he proves me and almost everyone else wrong. I might need some window pane to see any upside. JC showed me more than this and he needed to go. If I have to deal with Beck for years then I will root for him because I am that stupid, I have to.

[KazooSkinsFan]

It seems VERY likely that J.Beck will be the starter here for several years

I've been staunchly arguing the people who bash Beck with zero intelligence or observation regarding the rest of the O and his experience. And I think it's possible. But he hasn't shown me anything, to say it's "VERY likely" seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Let's see what he's got, no pressure, no commitment.

[Kilmer72]

Our O line was much better Kazoo,this last game right? How many games is enough to determine?

[tammet]

"Back to preseason football again. Remember we are playing the Dolphins this week. They make any QB look good."




The dolphins have improved their game quite a bit in the last several weeks, which was apparent in the 31 to 3 stomping of KC, and the fight they gave the giants. They certainly are a more credible threat now than in earlier weeks and will not simply roll over. It has been said that nobody watches as much film as Beck and this is why you see him so dramatically correcting problems.
It seems evident that he is replicating what he did at BYU where he broke several records. This Sunday will be a turning point for him if he keeps to his history of improving.

[Kilmer72]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

Nuff said I hope.

[tammet]

It seems VERY likely that J.Beck will be the starter here for several years

I've been staunchly arguing the people who bash Beck with zero intelligence or observation regarding the rest of the O and his experience. And I think it's possible. But he hasn't shown me anything, to say it's "VERY likely" seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Let's see what he's got, no pressure, no commitment.

I think you are correct; the OL is doing Beck no great favors. However, they did improve over the prior Sunday. Additionally, the recievers could help by holding on to a few more balls. Regardless, he has improved by going from 9 sacks to 1 sack and from waiting too long to get rid of the ball to getting rid of it too quickly and not making deeper reads. I belive he will watch the film and make several good deep throws this week against the fins. I'm not a huge Beck fan, but his adherence to study and application over his short time as a starter is plain to see. The question is will he keep making these strides?

[Kilmer72]

tammet,

did you get a chance to read the link above? I want Beck to succeed but, because I don't think he can doesn't mean squat. There is some good info in that article though.

[skinpride1]

"Back to preseason football again. Remember we are playing the Dolphins this week. They make any QB look good."




The dolphins have improved their game quite a bit in the last several weeks, which was apparent in the 31 to 3 stomping of KC, and the fight they gave the giants. They certainly are a more credible threat now than in earlier weeks and will not simply roll over. It has been said that nobody watches as much film as Beck and this is why you see him so dramatically correcting problems.
It seems evident that he is replicating what he did at BYU where he broke several records. This Sunday will be a turning point for him if he keeps to his history of improving.

My bad Tammet . I forgot what an improving team is like anymore instead of one that is going backwards. The preseason comment was more for the skins with all the young players on the field and Beck starting at QB. Watching film that is good for Beck but can he put it togther on the field that is the question.

[tammet]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-john-beck-hard-to-believe-in-hard-to-root-against/2011/11/07/gIQAlqJGxM_story.html

Nuff said I hope.

I listen to Wise daily and he doesnt seem to grasp all the variables before he speaks, unlike his more competent co-host CJ. On that note, I find it interesting that he failed to site the lack of a running game/ dropped balls/ and a still weak OL as contributing factors to the overall poor performance. In short, his article is extremely myopic.

[SprintRightOption]

Things could be worse. We could have Michael Vick and be the "Dream Team"

[Kilmer72]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-john-beck-hard-to-believe-in-hard-to-root-against/2011/11/07/gIQAlqJGxM_story.html

Nuff said I hope.

I listen to Wise daily and he doesnt seem to grasp all the variables before he speaks, unlike his more competent co-host CJ. On that note, I find it interesting that he failed to site the lack of a running game/ dropped balls/ and a still weak OL as contributing factors to the overall poor performance. In short, his article is extremely myopic.

This is true and I give you that my Redskin brother but, why should it be different for Beck vs. Grossman? Why doesn't Rex get that same treatment that you want Beck to have?

[tammet]

Things could be worse. We could have Michael Vick and be the "Dream Team"

I often wonder if Vick's team mates say "What's up dawg" when greeting him.

[Kilmer72]

Things could be worse. We could have Michael Vick and be the "Dream Team"

I often wonder if Vick's team mates say "What's up dawg" when greeting him.

LMAO!!!!

[tammet]

This is true and I give you that my Redskin brother but, why should it be different for Beck vs. Grossman? Why doesn't Rex get that same treatment that you want Beck to have?[/quote]

Rex's games-
We were healthy, the giants were greatly stuggling with injuries.
Arizona was particularly awful. Dallas made more ghastly mistakes than i've seen in a very long time and we still lost. I CANT believe we lost that game.
St. louis = awful. Philly defense was Rex's greatest test by far this season and that's why he looked so bad. Even in the games won against the crappy teams, he seemed to try and find a way to lose.

Beck, on the other hand has had three FAR tougher challenges in front of him coupled with OL issues, the loss of hightower and moss. So, the Rex vs Beck comparison based games won or most other measures is not , by a long shot, apples to apples. Whenever Arrington says, "but REX won more games" it makes me ill that he can be so unobservant.