Skins-Bills postgame thread

[ATX_Skins]

Was it just me or did we not run many screen plays if any?

[SprintRightOption]

At week four last year the Chicago Bear's were 3-0. QB Jay Cutler got sacked 9 times in just the first half of their Monday Night game against the Giants and got knocked out with a concussion. The Bears went on to the NFC Championship.

As bad as yesterday was, it could have been worse. Really bad games are not a predictor of future performance.

[Kilmer72]

Shouldn't this be called the "postmortem" thread instead of the postgame thread?

The Redskins are cooked and Shanahan has made very little progress as head coach. Then again, he hasn't had a decent QB to work with. The Skins hit the re-set button on this season and didn't spend valuable picks on a QB. Okay... hopefully we're active in FA next season and get a real O-Line and we add one of the brilliant young QB's.

Let me say what seems obvious to me, but maybe not so obvious to others.

Shanahan picked the QBs. He picked McNabb last year, and that was a debacle, including how he handled him, and he picked Grossman as the backup to McNabb. Shanahan also picked Beck, and claimed he didn't need to draft a QB, as he would stake his reputation on Beck. Then after the preseason, he names Grossman the Starter, who proceeds to go 3-2, albeit not very pretty. So he shifts gears and starts Beck, and what little offense that existed under Grossman's management, disappeared like a thief in the night. Am I missing anything here? Oh yes, I am .... Mike Shanahan also picked that just older than a teenage twerp to be his Offensive Coordinator ...and I apologize in advance if such bluntness is "offensive" to anyone ... but after watching Kyle's offense, I don't see how anyone could find that nearly as offensive as watching his offense fail to perform.

Who are these coaches anyway? How do you give up 9 sacks in one game to a team that was averaging less than 1 sack per game? Who's coaching the QB and the line? Who's coaching (or not coaching) up these receivers who seem to be the ONLY NFL receivers that can be covered for 7 seconds without gaining separation? How can you fail again and again against teams struggling on defense ... must the Redskins be the universal get well medicine that every D-Coordinator needs, making every poor defense in the NFL feel like the 85 Bears for one day at least? Do we need another Bingo Man to come in and install a dose of wisdom and common sense?

The common denominator here is Mike & Kyle, and as it stands right now, both Grossman and Beck have performed more poorly than did McNabb, even though he was expected to perform in a brand new system immediately out of the blocks, with a poorer o-line and an entire offensive team learning a new scheme. So far, the offense has regressed over the first 6 games, and literally imploded yesterday into an embarrassment even Jim Zorn never matched. (I know, I'm throwing low blows now).

But really ... is it really much better under Mikey? Actually not. After 23 games, 9-14 is worse than Zorn, worse than anyone else if I recall the graphic NFL put up yesterday about Redskin coaches and their records. But did we really need the graphic? No ... the results are painfully obvious, and if I seem frustrated, that's because I am particularly frustrated with worse results coming from a coach with the highest level of arrogance since Marty (but at least he had some justification for his).

But I'm not the only one ... did you see London Fletcher seething mad on the sideline yesterday after that TD? Do you see these guys grasping at air on defense, big play after big play, and guys grasping at straws with these endless 3 and outs, after 3 and outs on offense? Gift wrap a ball, and place it in the Red Zone and this offense still can't even score a 3 pointer?

I refuse to blame the defense, even after the past two weeks, because they are constantly being put back on the field, with no help from a totally inept offense that is stuck in reverse.

It's easy to say everything would be different, if we only had a good QB. But I dare say if we did, we still wouldn't see it, because whatever failure might occur, it would be cardio vascular or some other excuse related, and not due to a system that was made successful by a couple of guys in Houston who are very good at playing catch.

And we're stuck with one Shanahan because of the other.

I agree with almost everything you said. The exception is as bad as Rex was he could actually hit a short and medium pass where Mc D couldn't. This all falls on #5. He just didn't want to learn and try to make his game better to succeed in a new system. They figured this out In Minnesota as well.

Elway was the reason for Mike to win the big one. Mike might have made Elway better though. He couldn't do it with out him. Elway was the best from my generation and still might be even compared to others today.



I really did believe in Kyle but I have this feeling that he is going to figure out what Gibbs did and Al Saunders and Norv. This teams Identity has always been run the BALL!!!! Now it is a pass happy league but we can start the old trend back up by just winning. RUN RUN RUN!!!

[Countertrey]

Torrain ran the ball 8 times.
8.




8.




That's ridiculous in a 9 sack game.
Of course, you have to run block to get yards in the run game. But it is easier to run block than pass protect. Survey 100 O-Lineman, 100 will say so. It is not as if we abandoned the run because we were too busy passing for 1st downs.

I am not making this up! This is not my personal bright idea. This is what our coaches said, including "Future Hall of Famer" Mike Shanahan.

Kyle Shanahan, September 16th:
“You always want to be able to stick with it. It’s always a challenge as a play-caller when you’re not getting as much yardage as you want but that’s usually how the NFL is. If you can stick with it, usually one busts free. We didn’t get that but we were able to move the chains and pick up first downs, which allows you to keep mixing it up.”

Mike Shanahan, September 29th:

“First of all, we’re going to run the football. If they look at rushing attempts, we’re going to be in the top 10. We believe in the running game. We’ve got to be more effective. That’s the bottom line. Anybody that’s going to complain about getting carries on our football team, then they’ve got to go to a different league. Because, you know, we’ll be in the top 10 normally. If not, we’re not nearly as effective as we need to be, because that’s part of our philosophy. But I think now we’re eighth in rushing attempts, and we’ll probably continue to be pretty close to the top 10. We’d just like more plays and we’d like to execute them a little bit better.”

While I agree with you and believe you have to run the ball to be an effective offense, I can't believe that this team can do it right now given their current personnel. These quotes were given before we lost our lineman. Right now we have Montgomery who is playing out of position at Guard. Cook is not ready to be a starter. Locklier has played LT in the league for years but he needs help if the LG is having a tough time as well. If Williams get's back in there 90% healthy, I think the line improves greatly but until you move Mont. back to center and put in an adaquate LG, it's going to be more of the same as we saw last week. Running Passing, it won't matter b/c there is no protection or holes up front.

Kyle hasn't committed to the run in any games, with the exception of the Carolina loss...
That's five of the 6 games played... including 2 games when the running game was making positive yards. In 3 games, he surrendered the running game in the first half... once in the first quarter. Come on, man.

While I have questions about Kyle, and am not yet convinced he's incompetent, I get Stacey's concerns, and won't challenge them... something's wrong in that offensive room... and it's not just the O-line.

[spudstr04]

At week four last year the Chicago Bear's were 3-0. QB Jay Cutler got sacked 9 times in just the first half of their Monday Night game against the Giants and got knocked out with a concussion. The Bears went on to the NFC Championship.

As bad as yesterday was, it could have been worse. Really bad games are not a predictor of future performance.

You are comparing apples to rotten oranges!

The Bears have a great/proven Defense, Jay Cutler is a better QB than anyone we've had in the past 12 years, and Matt Forte is a beast.

The Redskins have a mediocre Defense, an inept OL, QB, WR corps, etc.

As much as I wish we would go to the playoffs this year. It's only going to get worse the rest of the year.

[StorminMormon86]

As bad as yesterday was, it could have been worse. Really bad games are not a predictor of future performance.

Man I really hope you're right. I want us to bounce back and actually conted with the teams we play again but after yesterday's performance I just don't know anymore.

[stacylee12]

Final word as this thread is ready to die but my husband is a Bills fan (and he agrees with me 100% by the way). In reference to when you stop running the ball. Anyone remember the great Bills comeback against the Oilers? Down 35-3 in the 3rd Quarter? How many rushing attempts did they have in the 2nd half?

Answer: 14

Came back to tie the game in regulation. Won in OT. (We have this game on our DVR.)

No, we are not the 93 Bills even with their backup QB AND backup running Back (right, Thurman Thomas was out) but just saying.....

[StorminMormon86]

With all of that pressure being sent, you would have think Kyle would have called a screen pass or two. He NEVER did, not once in the entire game. That falls solely on Kyle, IMO.

[RayNAustin]

With all of that pressure being sent, you would have think Kyle would have called a screen pass or two. He NEVER did, not once in the entire game. That falls solely on Kyle, IMO.

As I understand it, the Shanahans employ a script for the first 15 plays in every game. And I know this is not overly unusual, but I think it's an absurd way to plan games ... especially if you seem to have honed the 3 and out to a fine edge. That seems to suggest that for the initial several series, you are following a predetermined course, irrespective of what the opposing defenses are showing you.

Now, for anyone paying attention, it's pretty clear that the Redskin offense has been very poor in the first half of most games, which has led to us falling behind ... putting too much 1st half pressure on the defense, and letting poor teams hang with us throughout most of the game.

Seems to me that this coaching staff (ALL of them ... with the exception of Haslett) have proven totally inept when it comes to in-game adjustments, and taking what the opposing team is giving you. I just don't see the three basic formulas for success being implemented .... 1) play to your personnel's strengths, and 2) taking advantage of your opponent's weaknesses, and 3) adapting to, and countering game strategies being employed against you.

And that really does seem to be a glaring reality .... and why we've had only 1 solid win this year .... the rest were up for grabs.

[Countertrey]

With all of that pressure being sent, you would have think Kyle would have called a screen pass or two. He NEVER did, not once in the entire game. That falls solely on Kyle, IMO.

It's a huge problem... No screens. No 3 step drops. No quick slants. No hot routes. No draws. nothing to help slow down the rush (TE help RB help).

This was one of two things on Kyle's part. Arrogance... or incompetence.

[skinpride1]

Here is a good look at the 9 sacks from the Bills game. The link below click on it. Good Stuff.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/31/252 ... e-redskins

Shows how much Beck really blew it he was as much at fault as the o-line.

The O-line did play poorly but the clips really show how Beck is holding on to the ball to long missing reads and missing wide open receivers.

Remember at start of the season how Grossman was getting the ball out quickly hitting receivers before defenses caught on and started to scheme against grossman taking away the right middle of the field where he liked to throw. That's right Grossman is too one dimensional.

[SkinsJock]

It was a pathetic game and there were lots of reasons for this

we have a lot of injuries and unfortunately have very little depth along the offensive line & at RB

we did not play well offensively OR game plan very well

the Bills did play VERY well and their defensive line was able to cause a lot of issues


Kyle & Jim need to do a better job too - this is not all on the players by any stretch

[skinsfan#33]

Here is a good look at the 9 sacks from the Bills game. The link below click on it. Good Stuff.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/31/252 ... e-redskins

Shows how much Beck really blew it he was as much at fault as the o-line.

The O-line did play poorly but the clips really show how Beck is holding on to the ball to long missing reads and missing wide open receivers.

Remember at start of the season how Grossman was getting the ball out quickly hitting receivers before defenses caught on and started to scheme against grossman taking away the right middle of the field where he liked to throw. That's right Grossman is too one dimensional.

This is a real good breakdown, while I don't agree with all of the sacks he blamed on Beck, it does illustrate how important a decisive QB is to your sack total.

I said for years the Peyton want one of the least sacked QBs because of his line, he was one of the least sacked QBs despite his OL.

While Kurt Warner took a lot of sacks when he was with the Cards he avoided MANY more.

Neither one of these guys are mobile, in gatt they are the opposite of mobile, but they know how to get rid of a call quickly and know who to throw the ball to.

Beck isn't there and will never get to that point, however, he may get to the point where he is serviceable.

[skinsfan#33]

Here is a good look at the 9 sacks from the Bills game. The link below click on it. Good Stuff.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/31/252 ... e-redskins

Shows how much Beck really blew it he was as much at fault as the o-line.

The O-line did play poorly but the clips really show how Beck is holding on to the ball to long missing reads and missing wide open receivers.

Remember at start of the season how Grossman was getting the ball out quickly hitting receivers before defenses caught on and started to scheme against grossman taking away the right middle of the field where he liked to throw. That's right Grossman is too one dimensional.

This is a real good breakdown, while I don't agree with all of the sacks he blamed on Beck, it does illustrate how important a decisive QB is to your sack total.

I said for years the Peyton want one of the least sacked QBs because of his line, he was one of the least sacked QBs despite his OL.

While Kurt Warner took a lot of sacks when he was with the Cards he avoided MANY more.

Neither one of these guys are mobile, in gatt they are the opposite of mobile, but they know how to get rid of a call quickly and know who to throw the ball to.

Beck isn't there and will never get to that point, however, he may get to the point where he is serviceable.

[langleyparkjoe]

We're a couple days away from the Niners, can we pleaaaaaaaase lock dis thread???? I just can't stomach seeing the title come up.