John Beck Is The New Rich Gannon.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:41 pm

SkinsJock wrote:John Beck surprised me - give this guy the rest of this season and he'll be fine for this franchise going forward

we'll get a QB in the draft that can be a really good QB here for years

the Shanaplan will be adding players thru the draft and free agency that will really start to gel by the middle of 2012

John Beck is going to be fine as the Redskins QB

This.

I think we need to have a private room in this forum that's invite only. For people who are rational. LMAO

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:53 pm

The Hogster wrote:I stand by my prediction. John Beck didn't lose this game. Gaffney had a crucial dropped pass and a fumble that killed two drives that would have lead to points. Fred Davis had a crucial 3rd down drop that killed another scoring drive. Even with those mistakes, he put up nearly 300 yards and completed 60 percent of his passes in his FIRST start in 4 years.

Give him time to develop. People kill me by saying Rex deserved another shot after 4 picks, but think Beck is no good after 1 pretty good game.

Beck did not lose the game BUT he did not win it either. He is better than Rex at this time without a doubt. He needs a chance and time to develop indeed.

HOWEVER, Beck will be fine as our backup QB for years to come. He is not and will not become our starter franchise QB. Panthers showed us how a franchise QB looks on the field. They have one. We have not had one for what seems ages since Joe Gibbs' first tenure.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:58 pm

SkinsJock wrote:we'll get a QB in the draft that can be a really good QB here for years

It needs to happen in the next draft and early in the draft. You have three NFL-ready stud qbs in Luck, Barkley, and Jones, and Griffith from Baylor could make it into the first round too. If we have to trade up, so be it, but the qb position has been mediocre and patchwork for far too long with this franchise, and I don't care how good the rest of their plan is, if they don't get a qb to lead this team it wont matter.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:13 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
The Hogster wrote:I stand by my prediction. John Beck didn't lose this game. Gaffney had a crucial dropped pass and a fumble that killed two drives that would have lead to points. Fred Davis had a crucial 3rd down drop that killed another scoring drive. Even with those mistakes, he put up nearly 300 yards and completed 60 percent of his passes in his FIRST start in 4 years.

Give him time to develop. People kill me by saying Rex deserved another shot after 4 picks, but think Beck is no good after 1 pretty good game.

Beck did not lose the game BUT he did not win it either. He is better than Rex at this time without a doubt. He needs a chance and time to develop indeed.

HOWEVER, Beck will be fine as our backup QB for years to come. He is not and will not become our starter franchise QB. Panthers showed us how a franchise QB looks on the field. They have one. We have not had one for what seems ages since Joe Gibbs' first tenure.

If you admit that he's better than Grossman, then why make him the backup?? I agree that at some point, we need to draft a "franchise QB" but in the meantime, we have to play our best players. Right now, that appears to be Beck. We also can't expect a rookie to come in and start right away. Some other guys have done it with little problem, but others haven't. In the interim, Beck has a good opportunity to prove that he's a starting caliber QB. I think he will.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:16 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
The Hogster wrote:I stand by my prediction. John Beck didn't lose this game. Gaffney had a crucial dropped pass and a fumble that killed two drives that would have lead to points. Fred Davis had a crucial 3rd down drop that killed another scoring drive. Even with those mistakes, he put up nearly 300 yards and completed 60 percent of his passes in his FIRST start in 4 years.

Give him time to develop. People kill me by saying Rex deserved another shot after 4 picks, but think Beck is no good after 1 pretty good game.

Beck did not lose the game BUT he did not win it either. He is better than Rex at this time without a doubt. He needs a chance and time to develop indeed.

HOWEVER, Beck will be fine as our backup QB for years to come. He is not and will not become our starter franchise QB. Panthers showed us how a franchise QB looks on the field. They have one. We have not had one for what seems ages since Joe Gibbs' first tenure.

If you admit that he's better than Grossman, then why make him the backup?? I agree that at some point, we need to draft a "franchise QB" but in the meantime, we have to play our best players. Right now, that appears to be Beck. We also can't expect a rookie to come in and start right away. Some other guys have done it with little problem, but others haven't. In the interim, Beck has a good opportunity to prove that he's a starting caliber QB. I think he will.

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:58 pm

It's too early to write off Beck. I agree, give him some time and I think he'll do just fine. He already did a great job back against the Panthers, all things considered (injuries, banged up O-Line, dropped passes, etc.).

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:56 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:John Beck surprised me - give this guy the rest of this season and he'll be fine for this franchise going forward

we'll get a QB in the draft that can be a really good QB here for years

the Shanaplan will be adding players thru the draft and free agency that will really start to gel by the middle of 2012

John Beck is going to be fine as the Redskins QB

This.

I think we need to have a private room in this forum that's invite only. For people who are rational. LMAO

You don't have faith that we'll have a future great QB here in the next year

Or was it that you don't think that Beck will be one of the Redskins QBs next year
what I saw of him indicates that he will be an adequate back up QB - maybe you didn't :lol:

Or was it that you don't think that Bruce and Mike will CONTINUE to add players through the draft and free agency that will be contributors here LIKE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE

If you can get an exclusive place for you and fans that think like you - don't worry about me
I wouldn't be interested in it :nana:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:02 pm

I repeat - Beck surprised me but I doubt that Mike thinks that Beck is anything more than an OK QB
- he might even be a decent back up QB

Beck has a long way to go before he's a bona fide starting caliber QB - he's just the best we've got right now

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:09 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:we'll get a QB in the draft that can be a really good QB here for years

It needs to happen in the next draft and early in the draft. You have three NFL-ready stud qbs in Luck, Barkley, and Jones, and Griffith from Baylor could make it into the first round too. If we have to trade up, so be it, but the qb position has been mediocre and patchwork for far too long with this franchise, and I don't care how good the rest of their plan is, if they don't get a qb to lead this team it wont matter.

are you kidding us - what makes you think there's a chance in hell that this franchise is NOT making sure we draft a QB that can be great here for years to come

this is not an IF - WE ARE DRAFTING A QB in the 2012 draft

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:16 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
The Hogster wrote:I stand by my prediction. John Beck didn't lose this game. Gaffney had a crucial dropped pass and a fumble that killed two drives that would have lead to points. Fred Davis had a crucial 3rd down drop that killed another scoring drive. Even with those mistakes, he put up nearly 300 yards and completed 60 percent of his passes in his FIRST start in 4 years.

Give him time to develop. People kill me by saying Rex deserved another shot after 4 picks, but think Beck is no good after 1 pretty good game.

Beck did not lose the game BUT he did not win it either. He is better than Rex at this time without a doubt. He needs a chance and time to develop indeed.

HOWEVER, Beck will be fine as our backup QB for years to come. He is not and will not become our starter franchise QB. Panthers showed us how a franchise QB looks on the field. They have one. We have not had one for what seems ages since Joe Gibbs' first tenure.

Disagree... but only on the last point... we've had only 2 franchise quarterbacks in our history... and neither played for Gibbs (which, in my mind only increases his stature).

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:22 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:we'll get a QB in the draft that can be a really good QB here for years

It needs to happen in the next draft and early in the draft. You have three NFL-ready stud qbs in Luck, Barkley, and Jones, and Griffith from Baylor could make it into the first round too. If we have to trade up, so be it, but the qb position has been mediocre and patchwork for far too long with this franchise, and I don't care how good the rest of their plan is, if they don't get a qb to lead this team it wont matter.

are you kidding us - what makes you think there's a chance in hell that this franchise is NOT making sure we draft a QB that can be great here for years to come

this is not an IF - WE ARE DRAFTING A QB in the 2012 draft

I've seen teams do too much crazy stuff in the draft to think that anything is certain. And drafting a qb isn't sufficient, they need to draft a qb that is actually going to succeed and that's not always easy to do, remember Heath Shuler?

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:50 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:we'll get a QB in the draft that can be a really good QB here for years

It needs to happen in the next draft and early in the draft. You have three NFL-ready stud qbs in Luck, Barkley, and Jones, and Griffith from Baylor could make it into the first round too. If we have to trade up, so be it, but the qb position has been mediocre and patchwork for far too long with this franchise, and I don't care how good the rest of their plan is, if they don't get a qb to lead this team it wont matter.

are you kidding us - what makes you think there's a chance in hell that this franchise is NOT making sure we draft a QB that can be great here for years to come

this is not an IF - WE ARE DRAFTING A QB in the 2012 draft

I've seen teams do too much crazy stuff in the draft to think that anything is certain. And drafting a qb isn't sufficient, they need to draft a qb that is actually going to succeed and that's not always easy to do, remember Heath Shuler?

+1

People seem to think that 1st Round QB = Franchise QB. We need a QB who can succeed in the NFL, and that doesn't always happen during that player's rookie year. As a result, John Beck has a chance to start here for the next 2-3 years IF he improves each week and proves that he's more than serviceable. Some of us think he will do that, some of us don't.

We have to wait and see.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:01 pm

The Hogster wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:we'll get a QB in the draft that can be a really good QB here for years

It needs to happen in the next draft and early in the draft. You have three NFL-ready stud qbs in Luck, Barkley, and Jones, and Griffith from Baylor could make it into the first round too. If we have to trade up, so be it, but the qb position has been mediocre and patchwork for far too long with this franchise, and I don't care how good the rest of their plan is, if they don't get a qb to lead this team it wont matter.

are you kidding us - what makes you think there's a chance in hell that this franchise is NOT making sure we draft a QB that can be great here for years to come

this is not an IF - WE ARE DRAFTING A QB in the 2012 draft

I've seen teams do too much crazy stuff in the draft to think that anything is certain. And drafting a qb isn't sufficient, they need to draft a qb that is actually going to succeed and that's not always easy to do, remember Heath Shuler?

+1

People seem to think that 1st Round QB = Franchise QB. We need a QB who can succeed in the NFL, and that doesn't always happen during that player's rookie year. As a result, John Beck has a chance to start here for the next 2-3 years IF he improves each week and proves that he's more than serviceable. Some of us think he will do that, some of us don't.

We have to wait and see.

+2

welch · Post by **welch** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:54 pm

Pure question: who counts as a franchise QB?

Not a rhetorical question or a trick question. To my thinking, a franchise QB is all-pro, probable Hall of Famer. There have been few, and many teams have never had one. I'm counting guys like Otto Graham, Norm Ban Brocklin, Unitas, Starr, Sonny, Brodie, and onward. Fo rinstance, can't thnk of a Giants QB who was better than Phil Simms, and he was "good".

Does a team need a franchise QB -- someone like Favre or Brady or Montana -- to win?

Gibbs won without a big star QB, as CT mentions. Has the game been changed -- rue changes -- so much that a Gibbs team would lose today to a team like the SB 22 Broncos?

One thought: the Redskins played better under Gibbs II than under Shottenheimer, Spurrier, Zorn, and, so far, under Shanahan...even with Brunell, Campbell, and Collins at QB. My unsentimental (and provisional) conclusion: a good coach make a team much better than the sum of the individual players.

(1) Maybe the Redskins don't need a future HoF QB with Shanahan coaching

(2) All-star QBs are so rare that the Redskins are unlikely to draft one. (Campbell, Ramsey, Shuler, Joe T, Gary Beban, Norm Snead, Ralph Guglielmi...those are the Redskin big draft day QBs that I can remember)

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:02 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote: .. I've seen teams do too much crazy stuff in the draft to think that anything is certain. And drafting a qb isn't sufficient, they need to draft a qb that is actually going to succeed and that's not always easy to do, remember Heath Shuler?

OK, that's fine - I'm just VERY frustrated with some here

I agree that it's not a given that ANYONE coming out of college is going to become a really good NFL player
- the QB position is not only hard to find/develop the player - It is THE most critical part of the whole 'success of a franchise' puzzle

THIS IS FACT - these guys have shown an ability to add players that 'fit' with what they want to do here

We are going to be drafting a QB and we might also need to add a vet QB as well - Grossman is not here next year - Beck is still a big question mark

this franchise was a mess - that is not the case right now
- we are improving - we will be a lot better by the middle of next year

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:31 pm

We can talk about drafting a QB after this season is over with. If Beck gets into a rhythm (and stays on our team next year, which his contract indicates he will) with the offense, do you really want to start our high draft pick over him next year? That could be disasterous. A QB is NOT our #1 priority in the offseason. We need receivers, cornerbacks, and lineman first and foremost.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:54 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:We can talk about drafting a QB after this season is over with. If Beck gets into a rhythm (and stays on our team next year, which his contract indicates he will) with the offense, do you really want to start our high draft pick over him next year? That could be disasterous. A QB is NOT our #1 priority in the offseason. We need receivers, cornerbacks, and lineman first and foremost.

Absolutely disagree. Qb is far and away priority #1 in the coming offseason. Along with the Dolphins and Seahawks we have the worst qb situation of any team in the NFL. Rex stinks and Beck is essentially a 30-year old rookie. Add in the strong qb draft class in the 2012 draft and the likely weak 2013 qb draft class and this is the year to draft a qb. We wait beyond this year and you're looking at a 5-6 year rebuilding. Just because we draft a qb it doesn't mean he has to play (see Rodgers), but we have to get the qb of the future on the roster.

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:06 pm

Wasn't 2007 also a "strong year" for quarterbacks to be drafted?

-JaMarcus Russell
-Brady Quinn
-Kevin Kolb
-Trent Edwards

Drafting a QB will not solve this team's woes, and I think it's a wasted pick to get a QB for our #1. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to go with one in round 2 or 3. Even if we did pick a QB for our #1 pick, this does not guarantee he'll be our "future". We all know how Campbell worked out.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:07 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:We can talk about drafting a QB after this season is over with. If Beck gets into a rhythm (and stays on our team next year, which his contract indicates he will) with the offense, do you really want to start our high draft pick over him next year? That could be disasterous. A QB is NOT our #1 priority in the offseason. We need receivers, cornerbacks, and lineman first and foremost.

Absolutely disagree. Qb is far and away priority #1 in the coming offseason. Along with the Dolphins and Seahawks we have the worst qb situation of any team in the NFL. Rex stinks and Beck is essentially a 30-year old rookie. Add in the strong qb draft class in the 2012 draft and the likely weak 2013 qb draft class and this is the year to draft a qb. We wait beyond this year and you're looking at a 5-6 year rebuilding. Just because we draft a qb it doesn't mean he has to play (see Rodgers), but we have to get the qb of the future on the roster.

I agree. We need to draft a QB in next year's first round. But, we also need OL and a shut down corner.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:18 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:Wasn't 2007 also a "strong year" for quarterbacks to be drafted?

-JaMarcus Russell
-Brady Quinn
-Kevin Kolb
-Trent Edwards

Drafting a QB will not solve this team's woes, and I think it's a wasted pick to get a QB for our #1. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to go with one in round 2 or 3. Even if we did pick a QB for our #1 pick, this does not guarantee he'll be our "future". We all know how Campbell worked out.

Um, no. Russell was a huge gamble and is not comparable to Ryan Luck in any way. Quinn dropped hard during the draft, Kolb was second rounder, and Trent Edwards was a 3rd rounder. That's a strong draft class in your opinion??

Luck, Barkley, and Jones are all going in the first round, with all three possibly going in the top 10. Sure you never know how a player will turn out, but most analysts agree that those three players have very strong upsides and all are highly regarded.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:52 pm

IMO, we need Beck to develop. He needs to be our QB next year too. You give rookie QB's more of a chance to be successful when they can sit for a while. Let the kid sit for one year, then let him compete.

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:21 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:Wasn't 2007 also a "strong year" for quarterbacks to be drafted?

-JaMarcus Russell
-Brady Quinn
-Kevin Kolb
-Trent Edwards

Drafting a QB will not solve this team's woes, and I think it's a wasted pick to get a QB for our #1. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to go with one in round 2 or 3. Even if we did pick a QB for our #1 pick, this does not guarantee he'll be our "future". We all know how Campbell worked out.

Your logic is faulty. Just because the Washington has drafted 2 QB busts in recent memory (Shuler and Campbell) does not necessarily mean that ANY first round QB they draft is destined to be a bust.

The performance of future draft picks is not influenced by the performance of prior draft picks. Each pick occurs in a vacuum, just like each spin of the roulette wheel, and is not influenced by the prior one. The only carryover is the quality of the front office staff making the picks., but that isn't applicable here as the Racquetball Buddy is gone.

Real world example:

Millen drafted Roy Williams (moderate bust), Charles Rogers (total bust) and Mike Williams (total bust) all at WR.
Did that stop Detroit from drafting Calvin Johnson (probable HOFer) once Mayhew was at the helm? We obviously know the answer to that. Detroit fixed the REAL problem (Millen) and didn't get superstitious about the WR position itself.

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:24 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:IMO, we need Beck to develop. He needs to be our QB next year too. You give rookie QB's more of a chance to be successful when they can sit for a while. Let the kid sit for one year, then let him compete.

I wish the Panthers subscribed to your logic. Not all rookie QBs need to sit. Some (the rare few, granted) are ready to start from day 1.
Once the team has a QB of the future on the roster, the player who gives the team the best chance to win should start.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:31 pm

SkinsJock wrote:c'mon dead man - NOBODY's counting Beck out - i'm hoping he's really good

Are you kidding me - what does stupid Belicheat have to do with this - are you thinking we have a QB in Beck that is even close to playing the same game as Brady

give me a break - Beck is NEVER, EVER going to be CLOSE to being considered one of the best QBs to play the game

ARE YOU DRINKING OR SMOKING SOMETHING

this is one of those - you don't know how little some fans know ... until they show you moments

Beck is a QB - Brady is a legend

Totally missed my point if you think I was comparing Beck to Brady. :roll:

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:40 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:Um, no. Russell was a huge gamble and is not comparable to Ryan Luck in any way. Quinn dropped hard during the draft, Kolb was second rounder, and Trent Edwards was a 3rd rounder. That's a strong draft class in your opinion??

Luck, Barkley, and Jones are all going in the first round, with all three possibly going in the top 10. Sure you never know how a player will turn out, but most analysts agree that those three players have very strong upsides and all are highly regarded.

People were describing the 2007 draft as a strong quarterback draft because of those players I listed, regardless of what round they were picked in. I don't think their strong at all personally. Tebow was highly regarded and has yet to do anything other than prove he should be on the sidelines until there's a wildcat formation play called. I must admit that I don't watch college ball at all, so I know nothing about the upcoming draft class. I just don't believe we should be clamoring for a 1st round QB just yet until the season is done and over.