Redskin 2011 surprises and disappointments

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:13 pm

Grossman is a known entity and has not changed in any significant way since his Chicago days. Every team in the league knows what he brings to, and takes off, the table.

Beck, on the other hand, has minimal starting experience and the book on him is not yet written. Since the coaches seem to think that he is at least as talented as Grossman (if not better), there is no harm in getting him some PT this year. That way, the Redskins can determine if he is a capable back up for the future (most likely) or a potential starter (less likely). There is also the possibility that he will exceed expectations and become potential trade bait for a team that's even more QB-desperate than the 'Skins.

Sir_Monk · Post by **Sir_Monk** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:20 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:we need to get Beck some play time soon so that he's better prepared when Grossman needs to be replaced - THIS will happen

Why do we need to get Beck playing time? Why will Grossman be replaced soon?

Do I believe Rex is the Gawd of QBs, no I don't but 3-1 with the guy so far (granted the teams were garbage) and I'm thinking maybe we could only get better. If Rex gets hurt, fine but until than NO QB CHANGE! I don't think we should back-track to our old ways.

I personally don't see the downside in going to Beck. Our O is still on the bad side of mediocre. From what they've said about Beck he could be a clear improvement over Grossman.

I can't see him being any worse, and at a minimum I would imagine he would protect the ball better then Grossman.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:41 pm

absinthe1023 wrote:Grossman is a known entity and has not changed in any significant way since his Chicago days. Every team in the league knows what he brings to, and takes off, the table.

Beck, on the other hand, has minimal starting experience and the book on him is not yet written. Since the coaches seem to think that he is at least as talented as Grossman (if not better), there is no harm in getting him some PT this year. That way, the Redskins can determine if he is a capable back up for the future (most likely) or a potential starter (less likely). There is also the possibility that he will exceed expectations and become potential trade bait for a team that's even more QB-desperate than the 'Skins.

Only part of this I disagree with is how the coaches view Beck. I hope that if they thought he was better, they'd have him in the game, instead of Grossman. I advocate seeing what Beck's has to offer, but also don't know if upsetting team chemistry, locker room calm and unquestionable positive progress is the way to go. At the end of the day, I don't think either guy is going to alter the plans to get a qb next year. This team seems to be far less fragile mentally and chemistry wise than in years past, so I'm not all that scared about a switch. I, like you, am just tired of getting exactly what I expect from Grossman. IF Becks sucks, then put grossman back in, no harm done.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:36 pm

emoses14 wrote:IF Becks sucks, then put grossman back in, no harm done.

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Once you've made the switch, going back would make things that much worse.

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:40 pm

Deadskins wrote:
emoses14 wrote:IF Becks sucks, then put grossman back in, no harm done.

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Once you've made the switch, going back would make things that much worse.

Exactly, you don't just swap guys around like that. It messes with all of the players not just the QB's. Each QB has a unique throw that the players must adjust to. Not just the style but timing. Ask any receiver that has had a righty throw to him, then a lefty.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:16 pm

emoses14 wrote:
absinthe1023 wrote:Grossman is a known entity and has not changed in any significant way since his Chicago days. Every team in the league knows what he brings to, and takes off, the table.

Beck, on the other hand, has minimal starting experience and the book on him is not yet written. Since the coaches seem to think that he is at least as talented as Grossman (if not better), there is no harm in getting him some PT this year. That way, the Redskins can determine if he is a capable back up for the future (most likely) or a potential starter (less likely). There is also the possibility that he will exceed expectations and become potential trade bait for a team that's even more QB-desperate than the 'Skins.

Only part of this I disagree with is how the coaches view Beck. I hope that if they thought he was better, they'd have him in the game, instead of Grossman. I advocate seeing what Beck's has to offer, but also don't know if upsetting team chemistry, locker room calm and unquestionable positive progress is the way to go. At the end of the day, I don't think either guy is going to alter the plans to get a qb next year. This team seems to be far less fragile mentally and chemistry wise than in years past, so I'm not all that scared about a switch. I, like you, am just tired of getting exactly what I expect from Grossman. IF Becks sucks, then put grossman back in, no harm done.

Honestly, I think that the team is currently behind Grossman. I don't understand why the skins would replace their offensive centerpiece while that are 3-1. That is reserved for teams in desperation looking for a change in momentum. Right now, the skins are playing well and winning.

I actually find it somewhat funny that -- only a place like DC would want to change their QB while the team is currently having their best season in close to a decade. Grossman may not be the long term answer -- but neither is Beck. Sure, we know what we are getting with Grossman -- but what scares me is that we have no idea what Beck will do. Beck was clearly outplayed in the preseason. He has barely seen the field in his career. What makes people think he is clearly better than Grossman -- or even better to the point of replacing a 3-1 QB? Now, if Grossman has 1 or 2 more games like he did against STL, you will hear no complaints from me.

What I also find funny is that people tend to think Beck is younger than Grossma -- Rex is actually 2 days younger than Beck. Regardless, looking towards the future and once we acquire a QB of the future in the draft, Grossman is the better backup. He has more starting experience and appears to understand the Shannahan offense inside and out. I think we need to wait until Grossman does something to warrant his demotion.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:50 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
emoses14 wrote:IF Becks sucks, then put grossman back in, no harm done.

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Once you've made the switch, going back would make things that much worse.

Exactly, you don't just swap guys around like that. It messes with all of the players not just the QB's. Each QB has a unique throw that the players must adjust to. Not just the style but timing. Ask any receiver that has had a righty throw to him, then a lefty.

If either is a pansy who needs to be coddled and assured they are the man, it's better to identify it and get rid of them now

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:55 pm

markshark84 wrote:I don't understand why the skins would replace their offensive centerpiece while that are 3-1

Because our O is still bad, Grossman is bad and he's a turnover machine. Yeah, he's way better then Campbell. But man, he still stinks. We are on the right track, but no way are we going to the Super Bowl this year. Now is the time to try things, not when we actually are good as I hope we'll be in a couple years. I'm not saying Beck or bust, but Shannahan said it was very close. He also said Grossman was better. He's not. So let's give Beck a shot. Then decide who to take the rest of this year's shot with.

I don't get this OMG, we're 3-1, we can't change ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! Sure we can. And we're not that good. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving it. But I think we've got a long way to go to actually be good and I just don't get clinging out of fear to a quarterback who's not good and isn't winning any games for us. Our D is a lot closer then our O. Our O needs a lot more work.

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:32 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
emoses14 wrote:IF Becks sucks, then put grossman back in, no harm done.

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Once you've made the switch, going back would make things that much worse.

Exactly, you don't just swap guys around like that. It messes with all of the players not just the QB's. Each QB has a unique throw that the players must adjust to. Not just the style but timing. Ask any receiver that has had a righty throw to him, then a lefty.

If either is a pansy who needs to be coddled and assured they are the man, it's better to identify it and get rid of them now

It has nothing to do with being coddled. It has to do with messing with team chemistry when it is not needed. Rex is not very good I agree, but he is winning and until that changes I think it's unnecessary to change things up.

If we replace them now and lose 3 in a row what will you say then?

Not sure why everyone wants to see Beck so bad anyways if we are for sure going after a QB in the draft. Let Rex do his thing and take the wins however we get them. I don't know about anyone else but I'm kinda tired of seeing all the QB changes in Washington as it is. Now we are winning games, leading the division and fans are calling for a QB change... Unreal.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:41 am

ATX_Skins wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
emoses14 wrote:IF Becks sucks, then put grossman back in, no harm done.

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Once you've made the switch, going back would make things that much worse.

Exactly, you don't just swap guys around like that. It messes with all of the players not just the QB's. Each QB has a unique throw that the players must adjust to. Not just the style but timing. Ask any receiver that has had a righty throw to him, then a lefty.

If either is a pansy who needs to be coddled and assured they are the man, it's better to identify it and get rid of them now

It has nothing to do with being coddled. It has to do with messing with team chemistry when it is not needed. Rex is not very good I agree, but he is winning and until that changes I think it's unnecessary to change things up.

If we replace them now and lose 3 in a row what will you say then?

Not sure why everyone wants to see Beck so bad anyways if we are for sure going after a QB in the draft. Let Rex do his thing and take the wins however we get them. I don't know about anyone else but I'm kinda tired of seeing all the QB changes in Washington as it is. Now we are winning games, leading the division and fans are calling for a QB change... Unreal.

That's fair. I'm just also kinda tired of that feeling in the pit of my stomach that Rex won't "see the Mike linebacker" or "that linebacker turning and dropping into coverage" when he makes a throw over the middle or underneath that he has no business making for the 4th, 5th. . . 17th time this year. Switching QBs back and forth is silly. So is trusting that the team will always be able to bail Rex out (no, I'm not blaming him for Moss' INT). But, in reality a 3-1 team shouldn't be making a switch at QB, no matter who the guy in or on the bench is. Given the option between Rex all of a sudden getting "it" in the bye week and seeing if Beck already does, the latter sounded more likely to me. BUT, the #1 thing this team has going for it now is 53 men facing in the same direction, driving toward the same goal and that I wouldn't derail for a "what if" on John Beck.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:30 am

I'm NOT advocating making a QB change

FACTS
Grossman is NOT a very good QB

There is NO offensive 'chemistry' - at least not involving the QB

Shanahan has said that the QBs are V close - why not put Beck in?

we should give Beck some game experience because we're going to need him

Beck might show that he's more reliable 'managing' the offense than Grossman

btw - next time we get a lead in the 4th quarter, we'd be better off punting the ball & getting our defense back on the field
I'd rather have our defense out there than the turnover machine called Grossman :lol:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:38 am

I'm hoping that Grossman continues to start but Beck gets to play some QB

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:04 am

ATX_Skins wrote:It has nothing to do with being coddled. It has to do with messing with team chemistry when it is not needed

You mean because our O is in such a rythm we can't risk it? Are you watching the same games I am? To call our O mediocre is a stretch. I'm not getting the "chemistry" you're so desperate to protect. That we don't have one is why I want to look at our other option.

ATX_Skins wrote:Not sure why everyone wants to see Beck so bad

Why don't you put this in a reply to someone who's making this argument instead of to me who's not making the argument I want to "see Beck so bad?"

Granted DC has a long history of people who always think our backup is Joe Namath, but stop arguing that with me since I'm not making that argument. My argument is all about Grossman's inconsistent play, his college level arm, his bone head INT's and inability to not fumble when he's sacked from behind ever.

That we're going to lose chemistry on D because we change from a poor QB is silly and clearly we don't have "chemistry" on O. I'd like to try Beck because he's there and Grossman isn't doing it, not because you want to keep arguing I think Beck is Joe Namath when I've never said that, you did.

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:09 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:It has nothing to do with being coddled. It has to do with messing with team chemistry when it is not needed

You mean because our O is in such a rythm we can't risk it? Are you watching the same games I am? To call our O mediocre is a stretch. I'm not getting the "chemistry" you're so desperate to protect. That we don't have one is why I want to look at our other option.

ATX_Skins wrote:Not sure why everyone wants to see Beck so bad

Why don't you put this in a reply to someone who's making this argument instead of to me who's not making the argument I want to "see Beck so bad?"

Granted DC has a long history of people who always think our backup is Joe Namath, but stop arguing that with me since I'm not making that argument. My argument is all about Grossman's inconsistent play, his college level arm, his bone head INT's and inability to not fumble when he's sacked from behind ever.

That we're going to lose chemistry on D because we change from a poor QB is silly and clearly we don't have "chemistry" on O. I'd like to try Beck because he's there and Grossman isn't doing it, not because you want to keep arguing I think Beck is Joe Namath when I've never said that, you did.

Kaz, I'm still not sure why you still want to see Beck so bad, it's not like he's Joe Namath.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:00 pm

I so don't wanna go back to the days of Cerrato/Snyder running the team and changing a bum QB with a winning record for a QB we don't know jack diddly squat about except for preseason when he did pretty decent and crapped out in HIS most important game so far. (vs 2nd and 3rd string Def players)

You guys really want Beck in vs the Smeagles?? :hmm:

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:15 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote::roll:

I so don't wanna go back to the days of Cerrato/Snyder running the team and changing a bum QB with a winning record for a QB we don't know jack diddly squat about except for preseason when he did pretty decent and crapped out in HIS most important game so far. (vs 2nd and 3rd string Def players)

You guys really want Beck in vs the Smeagles??

LPJ, I'm right there with you. I don't like you this week, but I agree with your comment lol.

I mean really? Manningham 2pts.... Really?

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:26 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote::roll:

I so don't wanna go back to the days of Cerrato/Snyder running the team and changing a bum QB with a winning record for a QB we don't know jack diddly squat about except for preseason when he did pretty decent and crapped out in HIS most important game so far. (vs 2nd and 3rd string Def players)

You guys really want Beck in vs the Smeagles??

LPJ, I'm right there with you. I don't like you this week, but I agree with your comment lol.

I mean really? Manningham 2pts.... Really?

LOL! Chop, chop, chop. Watch how I springboard my way back up now!

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:13 pm

I'm worried that beck hasn't played for when grossman DOES go down... Guy runs like a girl no worse and if he gets smashed up we have beck and no reserves for possible playoff run if beck gets hurt then we got gano tacking snaps. K that won't happen but I like the idea of keeping grossman safe while we give the better athlete a shot and go from there. I agree back and forth would be silly but Grossman barely beat out beck with his more time in the system the only advantage. Now that beck has been practicing if he turns the ball over half as much he has already won. I say play him. We have competition at every position hightower prolly lost a lot of his snaps to Torain Buchannon may or may not steal snaps from Barnes etc...
We aren't an undefeated team BUT to not see what we got in a year full of change and getting better let's see what he's got. Maybe he surprises us maybe he is about as bad as grossman.
For the record JC is prolly better then Rex. Guy is a bum with decent quarters. Beck looked much better highs vs lows then Rex against the SAME teams period

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:40 pm

Guess who doesn't agree with a QB change while the team is winning?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -bye-week/

“Every quarterback is going to be judged by if he wins or loses, that’s the nature of the job,” Shanahan said Monday.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:44 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:Guess who doesn't agree with a QB change while the team is winning?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -bye-week/

“Every quarterback is going to be judged by if he wins or loses, that’s the nature of the job,” Shanahan said Monday.

As for me I've repeatedly said I would not "overrule" Shannahan if I had the power to do so. But discussing what we'd like to see our team do sorta is the point of a message board. You have gone to that well before, same answer.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:06 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
markshark84 wrote:I don't understand why the skins would replace their offensive centerpiece while that are 3-1

Because our O is still bad, Grossman is bad and he's a turnover machine. Yeah, he's way better then Campbell. But man, he still stinks. We are on the right track, but no way are we going to the Super Bowl this year. Now is the time to try things, not when we actually are good as I hope we'll be in a couple years. I'm not saying Beck or bust, but Shannahan said it was very close. He also said Grossman was better. He's not. So let's give Beck a shot. Then decide who to take the rest of this year's shot with.

I don't get this OMG, we're 3-1, we can't change ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! Sure we can. And we're not that good. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving it. But I think we've got a long way to go to actually be good and I just don't get clinging out of fear to a quarterback who's not good and isn't winning any games for us. Our D is a lot closer then our O. Our O needs a lot more work.

I basically agree that our offense is not very good, but I personally think it would get worse with Beck. I don't think Beck is a better QB than Grossman. Beck was basically handed the keys and lost them in the preseason.

It is my opinion that a number of people enjoy testing out "potential" or the unknown in this case. Beck is a complete unknown. He has been in the league for 5 years and never seen the light of day. Personally, that tells me something, but to others it may mean that everyone else, including Bill Parcells has missed something about Beck that may make him a good QB -- which I find doubtful.

Right now we are in the playoff hunt -- therefore it is NOT the time to try new things (unless you only care about going to the SB and not improving as a team and using that improvement as a benchmark for next season -- which, of course would result in never getting to the SB). It doesn't make sense to change the formula and risk regression due to a QB change. Now, if we lose our next 2 games, then sure, but making an impulsive, premature change in leadership is not the smart move. And to answer your question -- sure there are things we could change -- like the RB or punt returner, BUT a QB change is the equivalent of giving the team a heart transplant. If you are winning MAJOR changes shouldn't be made.

And finally, I wouldn't hastily say that Grossman hasn't won games for us. I don't think Hightower's 72 rushing yards or the 3 rushing first downs we had against the Giants is the reason we pulled that game out. Grossman was a HUGE reason why we won that game. He deserved the game ball. Now, he has had bad games such as against STL, but as long as he is winning, I don't see the need to pull him.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:03 pm

I REPEAT - I am not looking to change QBs - I'm just really concerned about Grossman as QB
Grossman is really not very good and will implode

If Beck is really not going to be as good (OR as bad) as Grossman, why is he here

Mike has said that Beck can do the job - let's see that - it did not look so good last time he played

If Beck is so bad, we need to know before the train wreck that is Grossman happens

I just love this :lol:

basically - it'd be nice to know that what we last saw of Beck was an aberration

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:14 pm

Grossman has played above his talent level - this cannot continue for much longer

Mike should find situations to insert the QB that he says has so much capability and let him gain some experience at working with the starters BEFORE we have to push him in there

Grossman is not going to be able to continue playing at this level - he's not that good

the case could also be made that Beck might even find a way to score some TDs - that would help

we ARE going to need Beck, hopefully after we get to 10-1 :lol:

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:20 pm

markshark84 wrote:Beck is a complete unknown. He has been in the league for 5 years and never seen the light of day. Personally, that tells me something, but to others it may mean that everyone else, including Bill Parcells has missed something about Beck that may make him a good QB -- which I find doubtful.

Tom Brady was also an unknown until Bledsoe went down. No, I'm not saying Beck is the next Brady, but you don't always know what you have until you give the guy a chance. And sometimes guys don't develop until later in their careers. The Chargers traded away Brees, and he turned out to be pretty good. Sometimes it takes the right coach, teammates, or system for a guy to flourish.

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:22 pm

x2. We don't know what we have until the game is on the line and we r two points down to the pukes ball in hand plenty of time and see if he can make the right choice... Even if its just run faster hold on tighter or throw faster. Beck made some great passes in preseason and in my opinion played better then grossman vs the Baltimore starters. He moved the offense Straight off the bat threw a pick (not a Rex pick RIGHT to a lb but more the fifty yard bomb that the receiver gave up on type) hen marched 90 yards for a TD to compensate. Rex may never in his career be able to say the same. Its highly unlikely anyone w our offense can do much worse. I honestly think if I got handed the reins I'd do better. Prolly get sacked and die but the ball would be in my hands that's for sure.
REX and REX alone cost us the pukes game nuff said. Not the hold the 3rd and 21 but his consistency to not score tds and to suck horribly at football.
K now I hope if he is the starter for philthy he eats some wheeaties and makes me a believer 400 yrds 4 tds NO ints. Godbless u Rex I hope you find a magic cure for slow and dumb