Returning kicks

[ATX_Skins]

I want to start a discussion about this subject because before the season started there were a lot of people on here (including myself) that thought this would be an area where we could change games. The ONLY reason Brandon Banks has a job with us is due to his ability to return kicks. Well, that just isn't happening. Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright. I am aware that league wide there hasn't been great returning but let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I know this is out of left field and lots of guys here are blaming the defense, but this is a big issue with me.

[frankcal20]

ATX - Most kickers are not only kicking the ball in shorter distances but also they are kicking the ball higher with better hang time. This allows for more time for the defenders to get down field to make a play.

Also, guys just are not blocking that well either. On 3 different plays last night, Banks was tackled by 3 different Pukes. That tells me that guys are not doing their job in opening holes for Banks. We know he's fast and he's still nimble but the lack of the return game has more to do with blocking than return ability.

[ATX_Skins]

I agree, but I saw him get tripped up last night and it reminded me of Rock Cartwright. Banks needs to go UPFIELD and be explosive, not prance around the 15 yd line and spin up to the 18.

[skinsfan#33]

What a waste of a thread topic.

The first two games Banks has been a flat out stud. I was amazed at the incredible job the Pukes did on him. I kept expecting him to bust one last night like he did in the other two games.

Any talk about him being like Rock is just ludicrous. That is just so crazy. Two great games and then one where the other team (that gets paid too) did their job and people are making absolutely ridiculous posts.

[ATX_Skins]

I don't like you Skinsfan33. You are on my craplist now FYI

I was amazed at how he went down by one arm tackles.

[broomboy]

I don't like you Skinsfan33. You are on my craplist now FYI

I was amazed at how he went down by one arm tackles.

He's a 150 pounds man... You gotta give the kid a break. He was trying too hard to break a big one IMO and not just run straight. Too much dancing on a couple of punt returns but to say he should be removed from duty is just plain nonsense.

[langleyparkjoe]

Your by yourself on this one ATX I agree with Broom and SF33

[ATX_Skins]

I don't like you Skinsfan33. You are on my craplist now FYI

I was amazed at how he went down by one arm tackles.

He's a 150 pounds man... You gotta give the kid a break. He was trying too hard to break a big one IMO and not just run straight. Too much dancing on a couple of punt returns but to say he should be removed from duty is just plain nonsense.

I didn't ever say he should be removed. What I am saying is that he is not used as anything other than a return "specialist". That is why he made the team. He has one job and one job only. I do not blame him for the loss nor do I think the team lost because of special teams. However, I used to have a good feeling when he got the ball, now I just hope he brings it out to the 20.

[cvillehog]

We know from the recent past that Banks has the speed and the decision making to break big returns in this league (though sometimes with the benefit of a holding penalty). Obviously the problem last night was a combination of good kicks/coverage and bad blocking. Perhaps the slippery field played into it as well.

[LORD GIBBS]

[quote="ATX_Skins"]I want to start a discussion about this subject because before the season started there were a lot of people on here (including myself) that thought this would be an area where we could change games. The ONLY reason Brandon Banks has a job with us is due to his ability to return kicks. Well, that just isn't happening. Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright. I am aware that league wide there hasn't been great returning but let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I know this is out of left field and lots of guys here are blaming the defense, but this is a big issue with me.

COMONNNNNNNNNNNN mannnnnnnnnnnnnn

[ATX_Skins]

Look, this is something that I have noticed. I know its not the most popular subject this morning but it's an area that I thought would have improved this year.

[langleyparkjoe]

Look, this is something that I have noticed. I know its not the most popular subject this morning but it's an area that I thought would have improved this year.

Keep in mind ATX that even Sav kicked the ball so high it almost hit the score board. Plus plenty of dalass' kicks were sky high as well giving the defenders enough time to get down there.

See: Scoreboard Memo, dated last year.

[Red_One43]

What a waste of a thread topic.

The first two games Banks has been a flat out stud. I was amazed at the incredible job the Pukes did on him. I kept expecting him to bust one last night like he did in the other two games.

Any talk about him being like Rock is just ludicrous. That is just so crazy. Two great games and then one where the other team (that gets paid too) did their job and people are making absolutely ridiculous posts.

I was a amazed with the Pukes kick coverage as well.

[broomboy]

...let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I interpreted that to mean he shouldn't be the guy returning kicks...

[ATX_Skins]

...let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I interpreted that to mean he shouldn't be the guy returning kicks...

The point I was trying to make is, he needs to do better. Not that I think he should be replaced. I understand it's only game 4 coming up and hopefully it will improve.

[Red_One43]

...let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I interpreted that to mean he shouldn't be the guy returning kicks...

The point I was trying to make is, he needs to do better. Not that I think he should be replaced. I understand it's only game 4 coming up and hopefully it will improve.

It was mentioned by Skinsfan33 that Dallas' coverage was amazing, do you think maybe that had something to do with Banks average performance?

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I can not hear this rubbish... I got little man syndrome bout his same size... Don't blame the smallest guy on the team for not getting any blocks from the bigs. Come on maaaaan BB is my mudda truckn DAWG!

[Chris Luva Luva]

I dunno if it's me but he looks a tad bit slower. I can't tell if it's injury or hesitation.

[crazyhorse1]

I want to start a discussion about this subject because before the season started there were a lot of people on here (including myself) that thought this would be an area where we could change games. The ONLY reason Brandon Banks has a job with us is due to his ability to return kicks. Well, that just isn't happening. Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright. I am aware that league wide there hasn't been great returning but let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I know this is out of left field and lots of guys here are blaming the defense, but this is a big issue with me.

Instead of picking on Banks for a poor or average game, why not jump on Orakpo, who made all of one tackle? Also, you should have mentioned that Bank's first two games were good, better than Orakpo's. Why does Orakpo get a pass, week after week? The guy can't buy a tackle and can't defend against the pass. You are obsessed with Banks, for some reason. Where was Armstrong, Davis, Hightower, Grossman, Paul, others? Where were the blockers who were supposed to open holes for Banks? If you think any kick returner would have had a great day behind the kind of blocking Banks was given, you are mistaken. Still, Banks had over a hundred yards and broke off one nice punt return.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I want to start a discussion about this subject because before the season started there were a lot of people on here (including myself) that thought this would be an area where we could change games. The ONLY reason Brandon Banks has a job with us is due to his ability to return kicks. Well, that just isn't happening. Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright. I am aware that league wide there hasn't been great returning but let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I know this is out of left field and lots of guys here are blaming the defense, but this is a big issue with me.

Instead of picking on Banks for a poor or average game, why not jump on Orakpo, who made all of one tackle? Also, you should have mentioned that Bank's first two games were good, better than Orakpo's. Why does Orakpo get a pass, week after week? The guy can't buy a tackle and can't defend against the pass. You are obsessed with Banks, for some reason. Where was Armstrong, Davis, Hightower, Grossman, Paul, others? Where were the blockers who were supposed to open holes for Banks? If you think any kick returner would have had a great day behind the kind of blocking Banks was given, you are mistaken. Still, Banks had over a hundred yards and broke off one nice punt return.

Welp, that about does it for this thread. Nothing else to see here folks. lol

[ATX_Skins]

I want to start a discussion about this subject because before the season started there were a lot of people on here (including myself) that thought this would be an area where we could change games. The ONLY reason Brandon Banks has a job with us is due to his ability to return kicks. Well, that just isn't happening. Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright. I am aware that league wide there hasn't been great returning but let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I know this is out of left field and lots of guys here are blaming the defense, but this is a big issue with me.

Instead of picking on Banks for a poor or average game, why not jump on Orakpo, who made all of one tackle? Also, you should have mentioned that Bank's first two games were good, better than Orakpo's. Why does Orakpo get a pass, week after week? The guy can't buy a tackle and can't defend against the pass. You are obsessed with Banks, for some reason. Where was Armstrong, Davis, Hightower, Grossman, Paul, others? Where were the blockers who were supposed to open holes for Banks? If you think any kick returner would have had a great day behind the kind of blocking Banks was given, you are mistaken. Still, Banks had over a hundred yards and broke off one nice punt return.

Who said I had an obsession with Banks? Nobody on this team gets free passes. When Banks only sees the field 3-4 times a game, I would expect him to be a bit quicker and not get tripped up by one arm tackles (Rock style). Orakpo rushed all game on a QB who was doing 3 step drops. I chalk that up to the D coordinator. If a player is easily tackled or can't even get the ball to the 20 I have an issue with that.

If all I did was get some peoples attention to this then I'm good. I guess now there is not much more to say on this topic.

[CanesSkins26]

I want to start a discussion about this subject because before the season started there were a lot of people on here (including myself) that thought this would be an area where we could change games. The ONLY reason Brandon Banks has a job with us is due to his ability to return kicks. Well, that just isn't happening. Last night and every game so far he has reminded me of Cartwright. I am aware that league wide there hasn't been great returning but let's be real, if you get the ball at the goal line and can't get past the 20 you shouldn't be the guy returning.

I know this is out of left field and lots of guys here are blaming the defense, but this is a big issue with me.

Instead of picking on Banks for a poor or average game, why not jump on Orakpo, who made all of one tackle? Also, you should have mentioned that Bank's first two games were good, better than Orakpo's. Why does Orakpo get a pass, week after week? The guy can't buy a tackle and can't defend against the pass. You are obsessed with Banks, for some reason. Where was Armstrong, Davis, Hightower, Grossman, Paul, others? Where were the blockers who were supposed to open holes for Banks? If you think any kick returner would have had a great day behind the kind of blocking Banks was given, you are mistaken. Still, Banks had over a hundred yards and broke off one nice punt return.

That's interesting that you bring up Orakpo. Maybe this deserves it's own thread, so not to high jack this one, but he has not played well since about the middle of last season. In his last 11 games Orakpo has 2.5 sacks. Last year he was still at least racking up tackles, but this year even that has fallen off and he's had only 5 tackles through (only 2 solo) three games.

[mastdark81]

I dunno if it's me but he looks a tad bit slower. I can't tell if it's injury or hesitation.

When I first seen him last year in preseason he looked like one of the fastest in the NFL. It seem like after his knee injury last year his speed hasn't been the same, especially the first 10 yards.

And they mention multiple times how Armstrong is the fastest on the team and I'm like what!? So yeah he lost a step.

[ATX_Skins]

I don't think he has lost a step. I also don't think he was ever the fastest on the team. It's his ability to make 1 or 2 cuts and explode through gaps that makes him so quick. He has it, just didn't show it Monday night.

[Countertrey]

Banks is one of the fastest players... but it's not his speed that makes him a good returner. It's his vision, decisiveness, and his ability to change direction to take advantage of an opening.

Frankly, I think the Cowboys just did a fabulous job of KO coverage... the openings simpluy were not there, and the Redskins did not get their blocks.

Banks will never survive a lot of contact. He simply doesn't have the body mass to run through "arm tackles" when the arm weighs almost as much as him. It's just physics. To be effective, he must pretty much avoid contact from the front. The hand of a 250 lb linebacker on his ankle will probably be enough to bring him down consistently... as we saw on Monday.