Mariano Rivera....makes HISTORY

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:26 am

Good for him, he's a stud..... I'm not a Yankees fan but I'll give him big props for this historic feat.

NOW...somebody please tell me the difference between a STARTER and CLOSING pitcher.

* why cant a "closer" be a good consistent starter
* why cant a starter become a great closing pitcher
* who decides and how does a pitcher say: "I DON'T WANNA BE A CLOSER"

Look a Rick Ankiel....was a pitcher, stunk it up, went to minors, now with the Nats and doing pretty well as outfielder and batter....

Somebody break it down for me........

welch · Post by **welch** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:33 pm

Couple of things:

- in the olden days, almost every pitcher was a starter until the manager figured out a guy couldn't make it. The has-beens and never-will-be's became relief pitchers. Important: no specialists. No "left-hand-one-batter" pitchers. They handed Walter Johnson the ball and he pitched until he couldn't pitch effectively any longer.

- Not so different even into the late '50s.

- A starter needs three or four different pitches. Fastball, curve, slider, change-up, and usually two or three varieties of fastball. Four-seam, two-seam, fastballs that have a natural bend or dip.

- Relief pitchers usually master two pitches: fastball, slider. When HRod throws his slider, it hits the plate about 10 mph slower than his fastball, making the difference wide enough that a batter prepared for a 100mpg fastball will miss the slider. Assuming HRod gets the slider near the plate, and that's an optimistic assumption. Balester has a great curve-ball, when he gets it over, but he came up as a starter.

- Clippard is over-powering because he came to Washington as a starter, and throws four good pitches. Drew Storen mostly uses two. So does Mariano Rivera.

- Add in strength and nerves. A starter has to pitch hard for six or seven innings. A reliever goes all-out for an inning, now-days. Sometimes, and rarely, two. Think of the starter as the long-distance runner and the relief pitcher as the sprinter.

- Maybe another difference is that a starter is expected to pitch through the opposing lineup at least three times. A reliver get three or four batters.

My opinions, of course, and feel free to visit a Nats fan-board and ask the same question.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:01 am

One of the best relief pitchers of ALL time.

Watching history in the making.

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:22 am

You guys forgetting John Rocker! lol

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:15 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:You guys forgetting John Rocker! lol

Impossible

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:11 am

thanks Welch......you schooled me there...!!!

welch · Post by **welch** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:32 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:You guys forgetting John Rocker! lol

Impossible

You're welcome, ToJ.

And, yes, I had forgotten John Rocker. Remembered the crazy, racist, dim-witted player, but I had forgotten his name. He sank fast.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:31 am

John Smoltz had a brief but brilliant stint as a closer, after surgery forced him out of his starter's role. He never gave up his desire to start, though, and went back to that role to end his career.