frankcal20 wrote:The only problem with keeping Banks is the current kick off rule. Unless we're bring the ball out from the back of the endzone - which is nonsense - he's lost 1/2 his value. He also has been injured both seasons with knee problems which is an issue for a guy who's main value is quick lateral movements which require very strong knees. Sorry - love the guy but I don't think the current make up of rules in the NFL and his health justify loosing depth at another position to keep here when we have other guys who can also do well.
I actually see the rule change as making guys like Banks more valuable. First, touchbacks have gone up considerably, but there are returnable kicks each game. You want an explosive & dynamic return guy who can make the most out of fewer opportunities. This is especially true because the Kickoff coverage team is a lot closer to the returner when the ball is caught now. As a result, having (just a guy) back there could result in you starting inside your own 20 on a returnable kickoff.
Not to mention he returns Punts. In short, Banks impacts the game significantly in more ways than our 6th receiver does. We will see how it pans out. But, I expect Paul to land on our PS. I don't think the NFL is as high on him as our fans are. But, we shall see.
frankcal20 wrote:The only problem with keeping Banks is the current kick off rule. Unless we're bring the ball out from the back of the endzone - which is nonsense - he's lost 1/2 his value. He also has been injured both seasons with knee problems which is an issue for a guy who's main value is quick lateral movements which require very strong knees. Sorry - love the guy but I don't think the current make up of rules in the NFL and his health justify loosing depth at another position to keep here when we have other guys who can also do well.
I actually see the rule change as making guys like Banks more valuable. First, touchbacks have gone up considerably, but there are returnable kicks each game. You want an explosive & dynamic return guy who can make the most out of fewer opportunities. This is especially true because the Kickoff coverage team is a lot closer to the returner when the ball is caught now. As a result, having (just a guy) back there could result in you starting inside your own 20 on a returnable kickoff.
Not to mention he returns Punts. In short, Banks impacts the game significantly in more ways than our 6th receiver does. We will see how it pans out. But, I expect Paul to land on our PS. I don't think the NFL is as high on him as our fans are. But, we shall see.
I agree.
I would also like to add that teams are going tio start popping kicks up high and trying tio get then to land between the gl and the 5yl and atempt stop them short of the 20. Most will get very good at this, but they still will kick it deep top KR to force a touchback. So KRs still have value.
Even if only half the kicks are returned he still has value. And that is w/o even counting PR. And I would keep him over our sixth best wr just for them.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
Red_One43 wrote:I do remember your SEVEN and at the time you posted it, it looked like a purty good seven even though most of us were doubtful that Shanny would keep seven. Now, that there is a plausible way to keep 7 WRs posted (It is plausible, don't cha think?), perhaps it is is time to drop Robinson and at least add Austin to your seven? I know you want to hang on to Stallworth, but I just don't see him keep ing Stallworth over Banks either, but understand your argument, though.
Austin has looked real good to me. Pretty much all my posts on this have been PREDICTIONS rather than preferences. For my PREFERENCE I say go young. Banks worries me with injury and fumbles ... they negate his explosion. I might not have even brought Moss back (as a GM) as much as I love the guy. I think like a GM when it's about my preferences. I'm thinking long-term future. Shanny can't think long-term 100%. He needs some wins. I think he knows he has a keeper in Stallworth and is finding out if the young guys have enough upside to make it worth releasing him. It's not worth cutting him for a youngster if the youngster won't be good enough to be here later or bring adequate value in a trade.
The coach we had who really thought like a GM was Marty. Damn!
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frankcal20 wrote:The only problem with keeping Banks is the current kick off rule. Unless we're bring the ball out from the back of the endzone - which is nonsense - he's lost 1/2 his value. He also has been injured both seasons with knee problems which is an issue for a guy who's main value is quick lateral movements which require very strong knees. Sorry - love the guy but I don't think the current make up of rules in the NFL and his health justify loosing depth at another position to keep here when we have other guys who can also do well.
Actually, Banks did return one from the back of the end zone and gained over 50 yards against the Steelers - the kicker , ol' Shwishy got in his way and slowed him down to prevent the TD. You have a point about the knee, but if the knee is bad, then he might go to the IR.
Malcolm Kelly is a bust and is always injured. Armstrong, Hankerson and Moss are definites in my opinion. Not that it matters. Not expecting too much out of the Beck/Grossman tandem this year in terms of actually getting the ball to any of them.
jwmann2 wrote:Malcolm Kelly is a bust and is always injured. Armstrong, Hankerson and Moss are definites in my opinion. Not that it matters. Not expecting too much out of the Beck/Grossman tandem this year in terms of actually getting the ball to any of them.
Kelly was already waived at the time you posted this. Cincinnati, huh? Bengals fan?
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
1. Moss - Starter 2. Gaffney - Starter 3. Armstrong - excellent third receiver 4. Hank - high upside - still raw 5. Austin - best returner outside of Banks and has receiver skills 6. Paul - Can't risk him going through waivers - tonight he showed his value on KO returns.
After the 4th preseason game:
1. Moss - Starter
2. Gaffney - Starter
3. Armstrong - excellent third receiver
4. Hank - high upside - still raw
5. Austin - best returner outside of Banks and has receiver skills
6. Banks - continues to show that he is a threat to score every time he touches the ball - it is time to put the best guys (even if they are defensive starters) on on punt return team and get this guy some blocking on every punt.
I like Niles Paul and it looked like he did everyting that he was supposed to do. I am so ready to cut Hank and keep Paul, but Hank's upside is to great to cut him. Just have to take the risk cut Paul and hope nobody claims him off waivers and put him on the practice squad.
frankcal20 wrote:The only problem with keeping Banks is the current kick off rule. Unless we're bring the ball out from the back of the endzone - which is nonsense - he's lost 1/2 his value. He also has been injured both seasons with knee problems which is an issue for a guy who's main value is quick lateral movements which require very strong knees. Sorry - love the guy but I don't think the current make up of rules in the NFL and his health justify loosing depth at another position to keep here when we have other guys who can also do well.
I actually see the rule change as making guys like Banks more valuable. First, touchbacks have gone up considerably, but there are returnable kicks each game. You want an explosive & dynamic return guy who can make the most out of fewer opportunities. This is especially true because the Kickoff coverage team is a lot closer to the returner when the ball is caught now. As a result, having (just a guy) back there could result in you starting inside your own 20 on a returnable kickoff.
Not to mention he returns Punts. In short, Banks impacts the game significantly in more ways than our 6th receiver does. We will see how it pans out. But, I expect Paul to land on our PS. I don't think the NFL is as high on him as our fans are. But, we shall see.
I have to say I didn't immediately agree with this, but the more I thought about it the more I thought you are right. So going into last night I was hoping Banks could show just a little more on special teams to warrant that roster spot, and WOW, he didn't disappoint.
Concerning Banks returning punts - Since when do teams kick away from a guy in preseason? Who needs more work, your punt coverage teams in stooping a dangerous returner or your punter kicking away from a PRer?
Last night, the Bucs made a definitive statement on Banks - WE FEAR THIS GUY even in PRESEASON. That is SICK!
For all the naysayers out there, Banks showed that he is a difference maker. His 7 points won the game. Let's be realistic here, this offense is still a big work in progress. The defense, a big work in progress. We cannot just throw away a guy that can run the ball back at any given time.
And really, people need to drop the kick off crap. There's this thing called punting, it's a part of football. With a good returner u can get the following things...
- points (self explanatory)
- momentum
- flips the field (helps medicore-struggling defenses)
- a short field (helps the offense) How many times did our offense have to go 80 yards to the endzone last year? It helps to only need to go 50, maybe 40 yards. Less chances for mistakes/penalties.
So Banks is in, deal with it. Niles may have potential but he's just really average right now. We have to risk him on waivers and keep Stallworth. He's great on special teams, has great speed and is consistent. There aren't many 4th, 4th string DB's that can run with him.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:For all the naysayers out there, Banks showed that he is a difference maker. His 7 points won the game. Let's be realistic here, this offense is still a big work in progress. The defense, a big work in progress. We cannot just throw away a guy that can run the ball back at any given time.
And really, people need to drop the kick off crap. There's this thing called punting, it's a part of football. With a good returner u can get the following things...
- points (self explanatory) - momentum - flips the field (helps medicore-struggling defenses) - a short field (helps the offense) How many times did our offense have to go 80 yards to the endzone last year? It helps to only need to go 50, maybe 40 yards. Less chances for mistakes/penalties.
So Banks is in, deal with it. Niles may have potential but he's just really average right now. We have to risk him on waivers and keep Stallworth. He's great on special teams, has great speed and is consistent. There aren't many 4th, 4th string DB's that can run with him.
I agree with this. I think Stallworth & Austin are fighting for the same spot, but as far as Banks goes, I hope people who hate on him for no football-sound reason, will quit moaning about him not "contributing" on offense.
SKINFAN wrote:I'd be surprised if Stallworth does not make the roster. Banks is in, up until last night I thought he might not be but the boy is FAST.
I agree with you, but let's see your six. Who do you think is a possilbe drop to make room for Stallworth? Moss, Gafney, Armstrong, Hank are locks. Austin looks like he made it. You say Banks is in - that's six.
That leaves Stallworth and Paul for an unrealistic, but not unheard of seventh spot. Do you think that Stallworth is worth a seventh slot over depth at another position?
SKINFAN wrote:Moss, Gaffney, Hank, Banks, Austin and Stallworth. AA is a good reciever, but I would pick Stallworth over him.
Stallworth may be as good as a receiver as AA, but AA is younger especially in body as he hasn't played as much throughout his career. I would bet AA is faster. AA claims that he can run a faster than Banks. AA managed to stay injury free in his one starting role, but Stallworth has been plagued by injuries throughout his career.
Both AA and Stallworth suited up last night, but AA barely played. Stallworth played the whole night.
Hey, thanks for sharing. Like I have said on this thread, I like Stallworth, so I can understand why you prefer him.
SKINFAN wrote:Moss, Gaffney, Hank, Banks, Austin and Stallworth. AA is a good reciever, but I would pick Stallworth over him.
Stallworth may be as good as a receiver as AA, but AA is younger especially in body as he hasn't played as much throughout his career. I would bet AA is faster. AA claims that he can run a faster than Banks. AA managed to stay injury free in his one starting role, but Stallworth has been plagued by injuries throughout his career.
Both AA and Stallworth suited up last night, but AA barely played. Stallworth played the whole night.
Hey, thanks for sharing. Like I have said on this thread, I like Stallworth, so I can understand why you prefer him.
AA is a lock. Last yr, AA=871 yds. Stallworth=82 yds.
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Judging by work ethic alone, I'd keep Paul over Hankerson. Paul hussled at every opportunity. Hankerson ran sloppy routes and dropped a fair number of balls. Paul has good size as well.
Another thought is that we keep six + a kick returner. With that I'd say it's:
Moss
Gafney
Armstrong
Austin
Stallworth
Paul
There is no way both of those two players would make it to our ps of cut and you have to be cut to be placed on the ps. I personally think Pal might clear waivers so they could place him on the ps but I doubt it. Hankerson I would give 10 to one odds that he wouldn't clear waivers. I'm fairly certain someone would add him to their 53.
There is also a chance that a released player would sign with another team's ps instead of coming back to ours.
You just can't count on a guy you intend on resigning to your ps actually coming back.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
skinsfan#33 wrote:There is also a chance that a released player would sign with another team's ps instead of coming back to ours.
That doesn't matter. If you are going to add a player to your 53, you can pick them up off anybody's PS; it doesn't have to be your own.
I know that, but that isn't what I was talking about. You are correct on what you said, but our players that we release today, that we want back, could be sign with another team's ps. They don't have to come back to ours. The only way we could get them back then would be to sign them to our 53 and that would only be of they wanted to comer back.
In other words once we release them they are FAs.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
