Beck as a viable starter

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:40 pm

Since John Beck is being given a solid chance to win the job, there is a lot of discussion, even some dismay, about his lack of experience. I keep hearing comments like, "Who is this guy?", "why didn't Shanahan bring in a veteran?" and "why didn't they draft Dalton or Mallett?"

I think we fans get hung up on big names and draft picks a little too easily. How quickly we forget that just 4 years ago, Beck was a 2nd round pick who was expected to become a starter in the NFL. Dolphins GM Mueller wanted Beck so badly that he tried 3 times, unsuccessfully, to move up into the 1st round for fear that another team would snag John Beck. They passed on Brady Quinn in the first round because they felt John Beck was the better QB.

This happens every year. Teams and fans fall in love with rookie prospects. Sometimes they don't pan out. You can't put any more stock into Ryan Mallett's future than John Becks, IMO. They both have a lot to prove. Being drafted just gives them the opportunity to show it, nothing more. In Beck's case, he was drafted by the worst team in the NFL. Then he got shuffled to the bottom of the depth chart when Parcells took over and wanted to bring in his own guys. In 2011, in Washington, Beck gets his first real opportunity. He is every bit as qualified to become a good NFL starter as any other QB drafted in the first few rounds. He could become the next Matt Shaub (3rd round, Pro Bowl) or Drew Brees (2nd round, Pro Bowl, Super Bowl) or he could become the next Kellen Clemens (2nd round, started one season) or the next Rex Grossman (1st round, 34 starts, 1 Super Bowl). See my point? John Beck is not any less a valid candidate for starting QB today as he was in 2007 when he was drafted in the 2nd round. Nor is he any less a valuable candidate as Andy Dalton or Ryan Mallett.

If we had drafted Dalton or Mallett, fans would not be questioning whether they were valid candidates at all. The discussion would be "will Dalton be our franchise QB starting game 1, or will Grossman start the first few games?" I think Beck deserves his shot and he must prove it on the field like everyone else. But there is reason to be excited.

P.S. - Some have questioned Beck's arm strength. At his NFL combine, USA Today reported: Beck's ball speed of 61.1 mph was second best among quarterbacks That was faster than Cutler did in his scouting combine.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:59 pm

He could become the next Matt Shaub (3rd round, Pro Bowl) or Drew Brees (2nd round, Pro Bowl, Super Bowl) or he could become the next Kellen Clemens (2nd round, started one season) or the next Rex Grossman (1st round, 34 starts, 1 Super Bowl).

Comparisons, at this point, to Brees or Shaub are absurd. Beck has started four games in four years; through four seasons Brees had started 42 games. His fourth year in the NFL Brees threw 27 tds; Beck has one career td.

See my point? John Beck is not any less a valid candidate for starting QB today as he was in 2007 when he was drafted in the 2nd round. Nor is he any less a valuable candidate as Andy Dalton or Ryan Mallett.

Until he shows that he is better than Dalton or Mallett of course he is a less valuable prospect. Beck is going to be 30 years old when the season starts. Comparing him to rookies that are in their early 20s makes no sense at all.

I think Beck deserves his shot and he must prove it on the field like everyone else. But there is reason to be excited.

I'm not saying that Beck will fail, but what exactly have you seen from Beck that has you excited about his potential? At this point none of us have any idea what Beck is capable of because he hasn't played in a game since 2007. Michael Vick, who went to prison, had less time between playing in games than Beck.

P.S. - Some have questioned Beck's arm strength. At his NFL combine, USA Today reported: Beck's ball speed of 61.1 mph was second best among quarterbacks That was faster than Cutler did in his scouting combine.

That doesn't mean anything if it doesn't translate to the field. So far we've seen reports from camp that's he's been throwing wobbly ducks on his down field pass attempts.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:25 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
He could become the next Matt Shaub (3rd round, Pro Bowl) or Drew Brees (2nd round, Pro Bowl, Super Bowl) or he could become the next Kellen Clemens (2nd round, started one season) or the next Rex Grossman (1st round, 34 starts, 1 Super Bowl).

Comparisons, at this point, to Brees or Shaub are absurd. Beck has started four games in four years; through four seasons Brees had started 42 games. His fourth year in the NFL Brees threw 27 tds; Beck has one career td.

FLEETUS wisely retorts: Hence the verb - could. :lol: He could become Brees or Shaub, just as Dalton and Mallett could.

See my point? John Beck is not any less a valid candidate for starting QB today as he was in 2007 when he was drafted in the 2nd round. Nor is he any less a valuable candidate as Andy Dalton or Ryan Mallett.

Until he shows that he is better than Dalton or Mallett of course he is a less valuable prospect. Beck is going to be 30 years old when the season starts. Comparing him to rookies that are in their early 20s makes no sense at all.

Interesting and very narrow-minded logic. Could just as easily say, until Dalton and Mallett show they are better than Beck, they are less valuable prospects. Why discount Beck just because he was drafted into a mess and not given a shot?
I think Beck deserves his shot and he must prove it on the field like everyone else. But there is reason to be excited.

I'm not saying that Beck will fail, but what exactly have you seen from Beck that has you excited about his potential? At this point none of us have any idea what Beck is capable of because he hasn't played in a game since 2007. Michael Vick, who went to prison, had less time between playing in games than Beck.

I stated very clearly, that he has to prove it on the field. Seems you missed the point of the whole post. Many people, you included, are prejudiced against Beck because he is a a 4 year veteran and hasn't done anything since being drafted in the 2007 2nd round. I'm saying, look a little deeper. He hasn't failed either. He has been given no real opportunity to start. Most QB's take 3 or 4 years to get their act together anyway. So, basically, we have a 2nd round drafted QB, being given his first opportunity to compete for starting QB and show off those same skills that had the Dolphins so desperate to draft him. Seems Shanahan thinks pretty highly of him also. Maybe it's time we stop treating Beck like a washed up 30 year old and more like the 2nd round rookie that had people so excited about him.

P.S. - Some have questioned Beck's arm strength. At his NFL combine, USA Today reported: Beck's ball speed of 61.1 mph was second best among quarterbacks That was faster than Cutler did in his scouting combine.

That doesn't mean anything if it doesn't translate to the field. So far we've seen reports from camp that's he's been throwing wobbly ducks on his down field pass attempts.

No, not the dreaded Wobbly Duck Syndrome! Quarantine him! lol Yeah, we'll see. Arms stength isn't one of the top 3 most important Qb attributes anyway. Point was, the kid has arm strength. He may not use the fastball on every pitch, but he has one when needed.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:41 pm

Why discount Beck just because he was drafted into a mess and not given a shot?

The Dolphins were a mess Beck's rookie year. However, his second season the Dolphins were 11-5 and beat out the Pats for the AFC East. After that season they dumped him. And his third year he played on the Ravens, who are not a mess by any means. Sure, he wasn't going to start ahead of Flacco but they traded him to us for virtually nothing.

Many people, you included, are prejudiced against Beck because he is a a 4 year veteran and hasn't done anything since being drafted in the 2007 2nd round. I'm saying, he hasn't failed either.

At this point he is a failure. He was drafted in the 2nd round and in four NFL seasons has been on three times, started 4 games, and thrown 1 td. Could he turn that around? Maybe. But at this point his career has been a failure.

Seems Shanahan thinks pretty highly of him also. Maybe it's time we stop treating Beck like a washed up 30 year old and more like the 2nd round rookie that had people so excited about him.

But he isn't a 2nd round rookie anymore. This isn't 2007. The fact is that he will be 30 years old when the season starts and to this point has had a failed NFL career. It's not that he hasn't been a starter, he hasn't even been able to hold onto backup jobs to this point.

Again, I think that he has a chance to be decent for us, but you're basically pretending that he is something different than what he really is at this point.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:23 pm

I can't wait for the preseason game where Beck comes on in the third quarter and throws three TDs against Pittsburgh's fourth stringers. This town is going to go crazy.

Come on. You guys KNOW it is coming!!!

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:24 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Why discount Beck just because he was drafted into a mess and not given a shot?

The Dolphins were a mess Beck's rookie year. However, his second season the Dolphins were 11-5 and beat out the Pats for the AFC East. After that season they dumped him. And his third year he played on the Ravens, who are not a mess by any means. Sure, he wasn't going to start ahead of Flacco but they traded him to us for virtually nothing.

Many people, you included, are prejudiced against Beck because he is a a 4 year veteran and hasn't done anything since being drafted in the 2007 2nd round. I'm saying, he hasn't failed either.

At this point he is a failure. He was drafted in the 2nd round and in four NFL seasons has been on three times, started 4 games, and thrown 1 td. Could he turn that around? Maybe. But at this point his career has been a failure.

You still are basing your opinion on those 4 games he played as a 2nd rd pick yet want others to stop. True he isn't a 2nd round rookie anymore but when he was, he was thrown to the wolves right out the gate. Being a second round draft pick means he wasn't ready coming into the League (neither was Favre nor his replacement in Green Bay Rodgers). He was replaced the following year by a new coach who wanted his own QB, he wasn't given a real shot at the starting job. They went 11-5 so who's going to argue with the coaches decision after those results?. That was Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and/or Tony Sparano that wanted Chad Pennington over Beck, you can call it what you want he didn't get to compete for the job in his second year. He was a QB that both Sparano and the Tuna wanted gone, yet he made the final 53 (#3 on the depth chart but on the roster)

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Seems Shanahan thinks pretty highly of him also. Maybe it's time we stop treating Beck like a washed up 30 year old and more like the 2nd round rookie that had people so excited about him.

But he isn't a 2nd round rookie anymore. This isn't 2007. The fact is that he will be 30 years old when the season starts and to this point has had a failed NFL career. It's not that he hasn't been a starter, he hasn't even been able to hold onto backup jobs to this point.

Again, I think that he has a chance to be decent for us, but you're basically pretending that he is something different than what he really is at this point.

Both of the Shannys like him at least one of them liked Mcnabb so that argument is moot. This isn't 2007 but the fact of the matter is he has bounced around since he entered the league and n one will earn a starting QB position under thise terms. He has bounced around with the guy that drafted him so Mike and Klye aren't the only ones that liked him.

What does this tell us?

It tells us the same thing that four games played by a QB drafted in second round 4 years ago tells us, it tells us... absolutely nothing.

We don't know anything about him other than what he has said. Like as a backup over the last four years he's taken every opportunity to get better and ready to be a starting QB, he studies film to the point that it's scary and that he knew coming into this off season that he would get a shot.

We know who his competition is and what he can do (at least we knew how bad he was when he was in shape), so we'll see what Beck is. He not a failure or a success as a NFL QB. He might get a chance to be one in 2011, if so we can judge him then. He still must deal with a overweight Sexy Rexy :shock:

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:37 pm

He was replaced the following year by a new coach who wanted his own QB, he wasn't given a real shot at the starting job. They went 11-5 so who's going to argue with the coaches decision after those results?. That was Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and/or Tony Sparano that wanted Chad Pennington over Beck, you can call it what you want he didn't get to compete for the job in his second year. He was a QB that both Sparano and the Tuna wanted gone, yet he made the final 53 (#3 on the depth chart but on the roster)

I understand what you're saying, but to date he hasn't even been able to hold down a backup job. An while the Shanahans might like him, some pretty good talent evaluators (i.e., Parcells and the Ravens) have given up on him. The Ravens have one of the best front offices in the NFL and they traded Beck for Doug Dutch, who they then cut three weeks later.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:39 pm

2007 - drafted by Miami who was a horrible team with a horrible O-line and no WR's and lost 15 games. Beck started 4 games, threw 559 yds, completed 57%, 1TD, 3 INT's.

2008 - Parcells came to town and drafted his own QB. Everyone knows when Parcell's comes to town, he likes to turn the roster completely over with his own draft picks and vets.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4441 ... ck-part-ii

2009 - Phins release Beck.

4/28/2009 - Earlier this off-season, HC Tony Sparano said that it would be hard to find Beck practice reps this off-season as they groom Chad Henne.

Baltimore signs Beck to compete with Troy Smith as backup. Again, Smith was drafted by Ozzie Newsome and Harbaugh. He was their guy. They basically brought in Beck to be the 3rd string QB barring an injury or miracle.

2010 - Beck comes to the Skins to backup Mcnabb, who is the clear starter and Grossman who is the clear backup.

2011 - for the first time since 2007, Beck gets a chance to compete for the starting QB job. There is nothing Beck did in 2008, 2009 or 2010 that led to him sitting on the bench. He had a short stint in his rookie year where the coaching staff wanted to see what he could do. Unfortunately, that team was the worst team that season and that whole coaching staff was fired before Beck could take a snap in his second NFL season.

Open you mind just a little and go a little deeper in your research than the stat lines and the headlines. Beck very well may fail to become a good starter. But the only way to determine if he's capable is to give him a shot. Thankfully for him, he is finally getting that opportunity to live up to his potential.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:46 pm

fleetus wrote:2007 - drafted by Miami who was a horrible team with a horrible O-line and no WR's and lost 15 games. Beck started 4 games, threw 559 yds, completed 57%, 1TD, 3 INT's.

2008 - Parcells came to town and drafted his own QB. Everyone knows when Parcell's comes to town, he likes to turn the roster completely over with his own draft picks and vets.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4441 ... ck-part-ii

2009 - Phins release Beck.

4/28/2009 - Earlier this off-season, HC Tony Sparano said that it would be hard to find Beck practice reps this off-season as they groom Chad Henne.

Baltimore signs Beck to compete with Troy Smith as backup. Again, Smith was drafted by Ozzie Newsome and Harbaugh. He was their guy. They basically brought in Beck to be the 3rd string QB barring an injury or miracle.

2010 - Beck comes to the Skins to backup Mcnabb, who is the clear starter and Grossman who is the clear backup.

2011 - for the first time since 2007, Beck gets a chance to compete for the starting QB job. There is nothing Beck did in 2008, 2009 or 2010 that led to him sitting on the bench. He had a short stint in his rookie year where the coaching staff wanted to see what he could do. Unfortunately, that team was the worst team that season and that whole coaching staff was fired before Beck could take a snap in his second NFL season.

Open you mind just a little and go a little deeper in your research than the stat lines and the headlines. Beck very well may fail to become a good starter. But the only way to determine if he's capable is to give him a shot. Thankfully for him, he is finally getting that opportunity to live up to his potential.

Two of the best talent evaluators in the NFL - Ozzie Newsome and Parcells gave up on Beck. In Miami they kept Tyler Thigpen over Beck and Baltimore Beck was behind Troy Smith in 2009 and in 2010 they kept Bulger as their backup and traded Beck. I understand what you are saying about the teams wanting to keep "their guys" but Newsome and Parcells aren't stupid. If they had seen something in Beck they wouldn't have dumped him like they did. Hopefully the Shanahans show that they were wrong.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:54 pm

I prefer to think that Beck might prove to be a decent QB - I don't think he'll be as bad as some think or as good as he thinks he is

we have nothing to lose and everything to gain here - there did not seem to be ANYONE that was worth making an effort to get .... YET

HOPEFULLY these 2 QBs can give us some decent QB plays this season and we can find someone next season to get ready to take over here

HOPEFULLY we also develop a decent offensive line here in the next couple of years to help that QB

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:30 pm

lets not get to excited either way if he plays good or poorly
the fact is it preseason .....remember danny weufell throwing some crazy number of tds a while back and what happened next ???
point here being vanilla defense not going to many wrinkles thrown his way.
even the first game will be a difficult gauge on the entire season.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:44 pm

Shanny did a recent interview on Redskins.com. When asked about John Beck he replied I never named a starter. Shanny said he believed in Beck but has not named a starter as of yet.

In reality during the long lockout. Players and coaches were not allowed to be in contact with each other. So it is not like Beck was somehow wowing Shanny during the lockout. Beck has a chance to start. Yes I will give you that. How good of a chance? Well will see. So far I am hearing he is launching lame ducks in practice. So far I think I would rather take my chances with Rexy. If Beck wins the starting spot then much kudos. However at this point I have my doubts from what I have heard so far.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:03 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
fleetus wrote:2007 - drafted by Miami who was a horrible team with a horrible O-line and no WR's and lost 15 games. Beck started 4 games, threw 559 yds, completed 57%, 1TD, 3 INT's.

2008 - Parcells came to town and drafted his own QB. Everyone knows when Parcell's comes to town, he likes to turn the roster completely over with his own draft picks and vets.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4441 ... ck-part-ii

2009 - Phins release Beck.

4/28/2009 - Earlier this off-season, HC Tony Sparano said that it would be hard to find Beck practice reps this off-season as they groom Chad Henne.

Baltimore signs Beck to compete with Troy Smith as backup. Again, Smith was drafted by Ozzie Newsome and Harbaugh. He was their guy. They basically brought in Beck to be the 3rd string QB barring an injury or miracle.

2010 - Beck comes to the Skins to backup Mcnabb, who is the clear starter and Grossman who is the clear backup.

2011 - for the first time since 2007, Beck gets a chance to compete for the starting QB job. There is nothing Beck did in 2008, 2009 or 2010 that led to him sitting on the bench. He had a short stint in his rookie year where the coaching staff wanted to see what he could do. Unfortunately, that team was the worst team that season and that whole coaching staff was fired before Beck could take a snap in his second NFL season.

Open you mind just a little and go a little deeper in your research than the stat lines and the headlines. Beck very well may fail to become a good starter. But the only way to determine if he's capable is to give him a shot. Thankfully for him, he is finally getting that opportunity to live up to his potential.

Two of the best talent evaluators in the NFL - Ozzie Newsome and Parcells gave up on Beck. In Miami they kept Tyler Thigpen over Beck and Baltimore Beck was behind Troy Smith in 2009 and in 2010 they kept Bulger as their backup and traded Beck. I understand what you are saying about the teams wanting to keep "their guys" but Newsome and Parcells aren't stupid. If they had seen something in Beck they wouldn't have dumped him like they did. Hopefully the Shanahans show that they were wrong.

Cam Cameron, Beck’s head coach in Miami and offensive coordinator in Baltimore, suggested the arrangement because he saw similarities in Beck’s and Brees’ skills.

Cam Cameron, Offensive Coordinator for the Ravens and former HC with the Dolphins, commenting on Beck.

“He has always been tough, he is extremely bright and coming out of college, we just thought he was extremely accurate, and that is still true to this day,” Cameron said. “Just like most guys, it takes time to develop. There is no doubt he has starting NFL ability.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:05 pm

I don't believe the words beck, viable and starter had actually been used in a sentence until this thread was titled...

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:09 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
He was replaced the following year by a new coach who wanted his own QB, he wasn't given a real shot at the starting job. They went 11-5 so who's going to argue with the coaches decision after those results?. That was Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and/or Tony Sparano that wanted Chad Pennington over Beck, you can call it what you want he didn't get to compete for the job in his second year. He was a QB that both Sparano and the Tuna wanted gone, yet he made the final 53 (#3 on the depth chart but on the roster)

I understand what you're saying, but to date he hasn't even been able to hold down a backup job. An while the Shanahans might like him, some pretty good talent evaluators (i.e., Parcells and the Ravens) have given up on him. The Ravens have one of the best front offices in the NFL and they traded Beck for Doug Dutch, who they then cut three weeks later.

http://www.fbgratings.com/members/profi ... pyid=14254

This certainly didn't help Beck's chances to catch on in Baltimore:

Aug 16 2009 - QB John Beck has reportedly broken his collarbone, so the Ravens worked out Cleo Lemon. The team re-signed undrafted rookie Drew Willy on Saturday, but the Ravens might need a better long-term option. After practice, coach John Harbaugh said Beck didn't need surgery but didn't know the "exact details" of the injury. Lemon was an undrafted free agent with the Ravens in 2002 and played under offensive coordinator Cam Cameron in Miami two years ago.

Aug 15 2009 - QB John Beck (collarbone) will miss the 2009 season, according to multiple reports.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:39 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
fleetus wrote:2007 - drafted by Miami who was a horrible team with a horrible O-line and no WR's and lost 15 games. Beck started 4 games, threw 559 yds, completed 57%, 1TD, 3 INT's.

2008 - Parcells came to town and drafted his own QB. Everyone knows when Parcell's comes to town, he likes to turn the roster completely over with his own draft picks and vets.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4441 ... ck-part-ii

2009 - Phins release Beck.

4/28/2009 - Earlier this off-season, HC Tony Sparano said that it would be hard to find Beck practice reps this off-season as they groom Chad Henne.

Baltimore signs Beck to compete with Troy Smith as backup. Again, Smith was drafted by Ozzie Newsome and Harbaugh. He was their guy. They basically brought in Beck to be the 3rd string QB barring an injury or miracle.

2010 - Beck comes to the Skins to backup Mcnabb, who is the clear starter and Grossman who is the clear backup.

2011 - for the first time since 2007, Beck gets a chance to compete for the starting QB job. There is nothing Beck did in 2008, 2009 or 2010 that led to him sitting on the bench. He had a short stint in his rookie year where the coaching staff wanted to see what he could do. Unfortunately, that team was the worst team that season and that whole coaching staff was fired before Beck could take a snap in his second NFL season.

Open you mind just a little and go a little deeper in your research than the stat lines and the headlines. Beck very well may fail to become a good starter. But the only way to determine if he's capable is to give him a shot. Thankfully for him, he is finally getting that opportunity to live up to his potential.

Two of the best talent evaluators in the NFL - Ozzie Newsome and Parcells gave up on Beck. In Miami they kept Tyler Thigpen over Beck and Baltimore Beck was behind Troy Smith in 2009 and in 2010 they kept Bulger as their backup and traded Beck. I understand what you are saying about the teams wanting to keep "their guys" but Newsome and Parcells aren't stupid. If they had seen something in Beck they wouldn't have dumped him like they did. Hopefully the Shanahans show that they were wrong.

Cam Cameron, Beck’s head coach in Miami and offensive coordinator in Baltimore, suggested the arrangement because he saw similarities in Beck’s and Brees’ skills.

Cam Cameron, Offensive Coordinator for the Ravens and former HC with the Dolphins, commenting on Beck.

“He has always been tough, he is extremely bright and coming out of college, we just thought he was extremely accurate, and that is still true to this day,” Cameron said. “Just like most guys, it takes time to develop. There is no doubt he has starting NFL ability.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

Cameron was the HC when the Dolphins drafted Beck. What do you expect him to say, that he sucks?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:46 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
He was replaced the following year by a new coach who wanted his own QB, he wasn't given a real shot at the starting job. They went 11-5 so who's going to argue with the coaches decision after those results?. That was Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and/or Tony Sparano that wanted Chad Pennington over Beck, you can call it what you want he didn't get to compete for the job in his second year. He was a QB that both Sparano and the Tuna wanted gone, yet he made the final 53 (#3 on the depth chart but on the roster)

I understand what you're saying, but to date he hasn't even been able to hold down a backup job. An while the Shanahans might like him, some pretty good talent evaluators (i.e., Parcells and the Ravens) have given up on him. The Ravens have one of the best front offices in the NFL and they traded Beck for Doug Dutch, who they then cut three weeks later.

http://www.fbgratings.com/members/profi ... pyid=14254

This certainly didn't help Beck's chances to catch on in Baltimore:

Aug 16 2009 - QB John Beck has reportedly broken his collarbone, so the Ravens worked out Cleo Lemon. The team re-signed undrafted rookie Drew Willy on Saturday, but the Ravens might need a better long-term option. After practice, coach John Harbaugh said Beck didn't need surgery but didn't know the "exact details" of the injury. Lemon was an undrafted free agent with the Ravens in 2002 and played under offensive coordinator Cam Cameron in Miami two years ago.

Aug 15 2009 - QB John Beck (collarbone) will miss the 2009 season, according to multiple reports.

Actually, he didn't break his collarbone. The initial reports were incorrect and it was a minor injury.

Rumors swirled today that Ravens third-string QB John Beck had a broken collarbone and was headed for season-ending injured reserve, but team and league sources say that is incorrect.

Beck’s MRI showed a slight muscle or ligament strain/sprain with no tears, and there weren’t any signs of a broken collarbone, although no X-ray was taken. Beck is scheduled to be re-evaluated in a few days, and he’s already feeling better than he did after Thursday night’s preseason opener against the Redskins.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/08/15/no-broken-collarbone-for-ravens-qb-beck/

He suffered the injury in the first preseason game, missed the second, and played in the third and fourth preseason games.

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Many people, you included, are prejudiced against Beck because he is a a 4 year veteran and hasn't done anything since being drafted in the 2007 2nd round. I'm saying, he hasn't failed either.

It's not prejudice. Prejudice means PRE judge. Beck has been in the league 4 years.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:51 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
He was replaced the following year by a new coach who wanted his own QB, he wasn't given a real shot at the starting job. They went 11-5 so who's going to argue with the coaches decision after those results?. That was Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and/or Tony Sparano that wanted Chad Pennington over Beck, you can call it what you want he didn't get to compete for the job in his second year. He was a QB that both Sparano and the Tuna wanted gone, yet he made the final 53 (#3 on the depth chart but on the roster)

I understand what you're saying, but to date he hasn't even been able to hold down a backup job. An while the Shanahans might like him, some pretty good talent evaluators (i.e., Parcells and the Ravens) have given up on him. The Ravens have one of the best front offices in the NFL and they traded Beck for Doug Dutch, who they then cut three weeks later.

http://www.fbgratings.com/members/profi ... pyid=14254

This certainly didn't help Beck's chances to catch on in Baltimore:

Aug 16 2009 - QB John Beck has reportedly broken his collarbone, so the Ravens worked out Cleo Lemon. The team re-signed undrafted rookie Drew Willy on Saturday, but the Ravens might need a better long-term option. After practice, coach John Harbaugh said Beck didn't need surgery but didn't know the "exact details" of the injury. Lemon was an undrafted free agent with the Ravens in 2002 and played under offensive coordinator Cam Cameron in Miami two years ago.

Aug 15 2009 - QB John Beck (collarbone) will miss the 2009 season, according to multiple reports.

Actually, he didn't break his collarbone. The initial reports were incorrect and it was a minor injury.

Rumors swirled today that Ravens third-string QB John Beck had a broken collarbone and was headed for season-ending injured reserve, but team and league sources say that is incorrect.

Beck’s MRI showed a slight muscle or ligament strain/sprain with no tears, and there weren’t any signs of a broken collarbone, although no X-ray was taken. Beck is scheduled to be re-evaluated in a few days, and he’s already feeling better than he did after Thursday night’s preseason opener against the Redskins.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/08/15/no-broken-collarbone-for-ravens-qb-beck/

He suffered the injury in the first preseason game, missed the second, and played in the third and fourth preseason games.

Thanx for the correction

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:56 pm

yupchagee wrote:
Many people, you included, are prejudiced against Beck because he is a a 4 year veteran and hasn't done anything since being drafted in the 2007 2nd round. I'm saying, he hasn't failed either.

It's not prejudice. Prejudice means PRE judge. Beck has been in the league 4 years.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:04 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
He was replaced the following year by a new coach who wanted his own QB, he wasn't given a real shot at the starting job. They went 11-5 so who's going to argue with the coaches decision after those results?. That was Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and/or Tony Sparano that wanted Chad Pennington over Beck, you can call it what you want he didn't get to compete for the job in his second year. He was a QB that both Sparano and the Tuna wanted gone, yet he made the final 53 (#3 on the depth chart but on the roster)

I understand what you're saying, but to date he hasn't even been able to hold down a backup job. An while the Shanahans might like him, some pretty good talent evaluators (i.e., Parcells and the Ravens) have given up on him. The Ravens have one of the best front offices in the NFL and they traded Beck for Doug Dutch, who they then cut three weeks later.

http://www.fbgratings.com/members/profi ... pyid=14254

This certainly didn't help Beck's chances to catch on in Baltimore:

Aug 16 2009 - QB John Beck has reportedly broken his collarbone, so the Ravens worked out Cleo Lemon. The team re-signed undrafted rookie Drew Willy on Saturday, but the Ravens might need a better long-term option. After practice, coach John Harbaugh said Beck didn't need surgery but didn't know the "exact details" of the injury. Lemon was an undrafted free agent with the Ravens in 2002 and played under offensive coordinator Cam Cameron in Miami two years ago.

Aug 15 2009 - QB John Beck (collarbone) will miss the 2009 season, according to multiple reports.

Actually, he didn't break his collarbone. The initial reports were incorrect and it was a minor injury.

Rumors swirled today that Ravens third-string QB John Beck had a broken collarbone and was headed for season-ending injured reserve, but team and league sources say that is incorrect.

Beck’s MRI showed a slight muscle or ligament strain/sprain with no tears, and there weren’t any signs of a broken collarbone, although no X-ray was taken. Beck is scheduled to be re-evaluated in a few days, and he’s already feeling better than he did after Thursday night’s preseason opener against the Redskins.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/08/15/no-broken-collarbone-for-ravens-qb-beck/

He suffered the injury in the first preseason game, missed the second, and played in the third and fourth preseason games.

Thanx for the correction

It is kind of ironic though that he got injured, even if minor, against the Redskins.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:30 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
fleetus wrote:2007 - drafted by Miami who was a horrible team with a horrible O-line and no WR's and lost 15 games. Beck started 4 games, threw 559 yds, completed 57%, 1TD, 3 INT's.

2008 - Parcells came to town and drafted his own QB. Everyone knows when Parcell's comes to town, he likes to turn the roster completely over with his own draft picks and vets.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4441 ... ck-part-ii

2009 - Phins release Beck.

4/28/2009 - Earlier this off-season, HC Tony Sparano said that it would be hard to find Beck practice reps this off-season as they groom Chad Henne.

Baltimore signs Beck to compete with Troy Smith as backup. Again, Smith was drafted by Ozzie Newsome and Harbaugh. He was their guy. They basically brought in Beck to be the 3rd string QB barring an injury or miracle.

2010 - Beck comes to the Skins to backup Mcnabb, who is the clear starter and Grossman who is the clear backup.

2011 - for the first time since 2007, Beck gets a chance to compete for the starting QB job. There is nothing Beck did in 2008, 2009 or 2010 that led to him sitting on the bench. He had a short stint in his rookie year where the coaching staff wanted to see what he could do. Unfortunately, that team was the worst team that season and that whole coaching staff was fired before Beck could take a snap in his second NFL season.

Open you mind just a little and go a little deeper in your research than the stat lines and the headlines. Beck very well may fail to become a good starter. But the only way to determine if he's capable is to give him a shot. Thankfully for him, he is finally getting that opportunity to live up to his potential.

Two of the best talent evaluators in the NFL - Ozzie Newsome and Parcells gave up on Beck.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong. Parcells always wants his own guys. He is an ego-maniac who wants all the credit for turning a franchise around. He has ZERO interest in keeping the previous GM's draft picks. I showed you the quote from Sparano saying Beck would get no practice reps because they were grooming Henne. That proves it right there. Parcells came in, before seeing Beck even practice he drafted Henne. Beck was never even given a chance to show what he could do. he was kept there to be the scout team QB every week with no shot to play. NONE.

The Ravens stint was similar. They had Flacco and Beck's only chance was to compete for the #2 QB against Troy Smith. He had a collar bone injury and partly missed his chance to do that.

Again, my point is not to say Beck is great or that Beck is better than Grossman. My point is, many, like you, have PRE-judged Beck because all you see is 4 years in the NFL, 30 yr old, no stats, never has won a starting job. Fact is, he was not given any opportunity in Miami and had no opportunity in Baltimore and was given no opportunity last year in Washington. He has not been proven good, bad or otherwise anywhere yet. He is a 2nd round talent, with 4 years of hard luck experience learning different offenses and doing the thankless job of scout team QB and is hungry for his first real opportunity.

But average fans, like you, have already written him off. That is a mistake.

NYFINESTSKINSFAN · Post by **NYFINESTSKINSFAN** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:24 am

fleetus wrote:Since John Beck is being given a solid chance to win the job, there is a lot of discussion, even some dismay, about his lack of experience. I keep hearing comments like, "Who is this guy?", "why didn't Shanahan bring in a veteran?" and "why didn't they draft Dalton or Mallett?"

I think we fans get hung up on big names and draft picks a little too easily. How quickly we forget that just 4 years ago, Beck was a 2nd round pick who was expected to become a starter in the NFL. Dolphins GM Mueller wanted Beck so badly that he tried 3 times, unsuccessfully, to move up into the 1st round for fear that another team would snag John Beck. They passed on Brady Quinn in the first round because they felt John Beck was the better QB.

This happens every year. Teams and fans fall in love with rookie prospects. Sometimes they don't pan out. You can't put any more stock into Ryan Mallett's future than John Becks, IMO. They both have a lot to prove. Being drafted just gives them the opportunity to show it, nothing more. In Beck's case, he was drafted by the worst team in the NFL. Then he got shuffled to the bottom of the depth chart when Parcells took over and wanted to bring in his own guys. In 2011, in Washington, Beck gets his first real opportunity. He is every bit as qualified to become a good NFL starter as any other QB drafted in the first few rounds. He could become the next Matt Shaub (3rd round, Pro Bowl) or Drew Brees (2nd round, Pro Bowl, Super Bowl) or he could become the next Kellen Clemens (2nd round, started one season) or the next Rex Grossman (1st round, 34 starts, 1 Super Bowl). See my point? John Beck is not any less a valid candidate for starting QB today as he was in 2007 when he was drafted in the 2nd round. Nor is he any less a valuable candidate as Andy Dalton or Ryan Mallett.

If we had drafted Dalton or Mallett, fans would not be questioning whether they were valid candidates at all. The discussion would be "will Dalton be our franchise QB starting game 1, or will Grossman start the first few games?" I think Beck deserves his shot and he must prove it on the field like everyone else. But there is reason to be excited.

P.S. - Some have questioned Beck's arm strength. At his NFL combine, USA Today reported: Beck's ball speed of 61.1 mph was second best among quarterbacks That was faster than Cutler did in his scouting combine.

It's a crapshoot.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:31 am

fleetus wrote:Sorry, but you are simply wrong. Parcells always wants his own guys. He is an ego-maniac who wants all the credit for turning a franchise around. He has ZERO interest in keeping the previous GM's draft picks. I showed you the quote from Sparano saying Beck would get no practice reps because they were grooming Henne. That proves it right there. Parcells came in, before seeing Beck even practice he drafted Henne. Beck was never even given a chance to show what he could do. he was kept there to be the scout team QB every week with no shot to play. NONE.

The Ravens stint was similar. They had Flacco and Beck's only chance was to compete for the #2 QB against Troy Smith. He had a collar bone injury and partly missed his chance to do that.

Again, my point is not to say Beck is great or that Beck is better than Grossman. My point is, many, like you, have PRE-judged Beck because all you see is 4 years in the NFL, 30 yr old, no stats, never has won a starting job. Fact is, he was not given any opportunity in Miami and had no opportunity in Baltimore and was given no opportunity last year in Washington. He has not been proven good, bad or otherwise anywhere yet. He is a 2nd round talent, with 4 years of hard luck experience learning different offenses and doing the thankless job of scout team QB and is hungry for his first real opportunity.

But average fans, like you, have already written him off. That is a mistake.

die cowboys die · Post by **die cowboys die** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:34 am

As a known major pessimist on this board, I would like to state that I ardently and adamantly agree with every single thing fleetus and 1niksder have said in this thread. You can't really make the point any clearer than they have done, and it's truly astounding that there are those who simply refuse to grasp the concept.

A QB's first 4 games in the league mean absolutely nothing as far as being a predictor of the rest of his career. Take a look at Peyton Manning's first four games. Take a look at fellow 2nd round pick Drew Brees's first two entire seasons as a starter (after sitting his first season on the bench)-- he was so underwhelming that they ended up with the first pick in the draft, which they then ultimately used to acquire Phillip Rivers, to replace Brees.
If Rivers had signed immediately instead of missing camp with a contract hold-out, he would likely have been the starter, and that would've been the end of Drew Brees. But he busted out with a great season and has never looked back, becoming one of the top QBs in the game today.

Nobody knows squat about what John Beck can do in the NFL, because even if he had gotten the chance to start for a full season or two, we still might not know whether he was going to be any good.

Fellow 2nd round pick Kevin Kolb has only played a handful of games in several years as well. He didn't start a game until his 3rd season in the league, and it happened to be for an excellent football team (they went 11-5). He took advantage of that opportunity and became a hot commodity-- but how would he have fared if he'd been thrown to the wolves in his rookie season, playing on the worst team in the entire league??

I would like to add that even if Beck fails miserably when he plays and blows the opportunity, that would not even mean we are wrong. We are not saying that he will be a good QB-- we're saying that we don't know, BUT, you also don't know that he will suck. Period. It's simply and utterly ludicrous to evaluate him based on 4 games under those conditions. The national sports media should be ashamed of themselves; particularly the guys who played the game. They should know better. And now everyone who's read this thread should, too.

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