Skeptical That Redskins Can Win With Grossman Or Beck

[Red_One43]

What sets these teams apart from others is that for years they have been letting talented players who ask for more money go.

Ok, who are all of these talented players that the Colts, Steelers, Pats, and Packers let go that ask for more money? I'm not saying that they don't let some players go, but every team does. We did it with Antonio Pierce, for example. If anything, what has kept the teams that you mention successful is their ability to develop players and then retain them. Just think for how long Manning and Wayne, for example, have been together. Sure, you can point to guys like Asante Samuel (who the Pats still haven't adequately replaced) but there are examples like that with every NFL team. And for every Asante Samuel, you can also point to an Adalius Thomas that they've paid big money for.

I listed a bunch of Steeler LB's. in my previous post. I key is players who ask beyond their market worth. I didn't make that clear. My bad on that. Antonio Pierce is not a good example, he didn't price himself out of a job, he wasn't wanted by Snyder. The Giants offer to him was just above the Redskins and Pierce offered the Skins a chance to match it. He certainly was wanted by Williams. Right now, Cato June is coming to my mind about the Colts. I will get back to you on more Colts. Sure, sometimes it leaves a hole when you lose a talented player but that player did not stop the team from still being a winning franchise. Oh, Edge James was another that they refused to pay -I will come up with more when I do the research.

Packers were not going to re-sign AJ Hawk, but he opted to take a pay cut rather than test the market and re-signed before the lockout. This is the optimum.

Starter - Cullen Jenkins will be allowed to test the market.
3rd Receiver -James Jones WR- had a good year as a third receiver will be allowed to test the market.
Starter - Tyrone Williams CB - some rumors have him signing with the Falcons
Starter - Daryn Colledge G - had a bad 2009 but bounced back in 2010
Those are just the free agents for the Packers that started in 2010. The Packers only chose to sign one of the guys because he took a pay cut. They are not expected to out bid folks for these guys even though their contribution to the SB was meaningful. True a lot of teams decided not to sign their free agents because the lock out, but the Packers made it known that they do not want to get into any bidding wars.
It is understood that the Packers will make K Mason Crosby a priority. He fits the key talent that we agree is important. When you have a kcker that good- you keep him even if you have to pay top dollar.

Other Colts let go rather than pay -
Hunter Smith - proved to be a good move even though the year before Smith had a good move.
Mike Vanderjagt - elected not to re-sign him ans went after Vinetteri - great FO move again

David Patten (three Super Bowls) and Deion Branch (Super Bowl MVP) are two Patriot receivers that were not resigned.

[Red_One43]

The Chargers were 14-2 the season before Norv took over. Each year of Norv's years they were considered favorites because of their talent to include their QB. Each year they failed to produce. Injuires and holes? Like I said, they do not belong in the category of Pats, Steelers, and Colts.

How to the Chargers not produce? They've won their division four out of the last five years and are a consistent playoff contender. Before last season, what differentiated the Chargers and the Packers? You can't just point to a team that hasn't won a Super Bowl recently and say that they've failed to produce. I would LOVE for the Skins to have the kind of success that the Chargers have had in the last five or so years.

LPJ can. See his earlier post. Maybe had we kept Marty, we would be having that kind of success.

I have to agree with you on your "Super Bowl point" but probably the best Redskin team ever was the one that didn't win the Super Bowl - the 1983 team but they will never get their credit because of that. I still agree with you, but just like the Redskins, the Chargers will not get their credit until they do. The Steelers, Colts and Pats and Packers have all won theirs - the Chargers must do it as well.

Of note winning the AFC west is not a lot to brag about in the last so many years, but still you are right. It is better to have those championships instead of none lately. But then again is it better to be a Redskin fan and have a team that won 3 Super Bowls than be an Eagle fan whose team has won none?

[langleyparkjoe]

The Chargers were 14-2 the season before Norv took over. Each year of Norv's years they were considered favorites because of their talent to include their QB. Each year they failed to produce. Injuires and holes? Like I said, they do not belong in the category of Pats, Steelers, and Colts.

How to the Chargers not produce? They've won their division four out of the last five years and are a consistent playoff contender. Before last season, what differentiated the Chargers and the Packers? You can't just point to a team that hasn't won a Super Bowl recently and say that they've failed to produce. I would LOVE for the Skins to have the kind of success that the Chargers have had in the last five or so years.

LPJ can. See his earlier post. Maybe had we kept Marty, we would be having that kind of success.

I have to agree with you on your "Super Bowl point" but probably the best Redskin team ever was the one that didn't win the Super Bowl - the 1983 team but they will never get their credit because of that. I still agree with you, but just like the Redskins, the Chargers will not get their credit until they do. The Steelers, Colts and Pats and Packers have all won theirs - the Chargers must do it as well.

Of note winning the AFC west is not a lot to brag about in the last so many years, but still you are right. It is better to have those championships instead of none lately. But then again is it better to be a Redskin fan and have a team that won 3 Super Bowls than be an Eagle fan whose team has won none?

Give me the hardware.. what good is 100 NFC championships if you have ZERO SB wins?

The same reason I didn't want Packers to win last year, they would've been tied wit us @ 3, now they have 4.. we have 3 with Oak/NYG/Pats.. GB wit 4.. Dal/SF wit 5.. Pitt wit 6. Now, would you rather be a fan of one of these teams or a fan with no SB championships?

1 WINNER, 31 LOSERS

[SkinsJock]

I will clarify that I'm not confident about success with Beck and Grossman - this is more because of where we are in the process of rebuilding this franchise than because of the 'talent' (OR lack thereof) of these 2 QBs

we need to not only acquire a bunch of players for our offense but also need the time that it takes for them to become a group of players that can play well together

I'm glad that Bruce & Mike are trying to bring in players that they think suit what the DC and OC need and not the best players available - eg Julius Peppers last year


when the Redskins become the consistenly competitive team that Mike & Bruce are working towards, there will be many who will most likely say "it's more because of the 'talent' we have" on our team than the fact it's just a group of NFL players (who are ALL talented, btw) playing good ball together


this FO will find "the" players - it will not take long


Beck (and or Grossman) are not the key to success - playing together as a team is


having a great QB would be great - having the players on defense and offense playing together AS A TEAM is priceless

[Red_One43]

OK, Back on topic for now. Can Kyle do for Grossman and/or Beck what he did for Schaub? Was Kyle responsible for Schaub's maturation? Schaub came to Houston in 2007. Kyle was his QB coach for 2007. Kyle took over as OC in 2008. In 2009, Schaub had his beakout year.
NOTE* By help, I don't mean turn Grossman or Beck into elite QBs. I mean help them to be SERVICEABLE QBs that will eanble us to win more games this year.

Here are Matt Schaub's Career stats (sorry It is all jumbled. I am not computer savy. See the link):

Career Stats G GS Comp Att Pct. Yds TD Int Rate
2004 Falcons 6 1 33 70 47.1 330 1 4 42.0
2005 Falcons 16 1 33 64 51.6 495 4 0 98.1
2006 Falcons 16 0 18 27 66.7 208 1 2 71.2
2007 Texans 11 11 192 289 66.4 2,241 9 9 87.2
2008 Texans 11 11 251 380 66.1 3,043 15 10 92.7
2009 Texans 16 16 396 583 67.9 4,770 29 15 98.6
2010 Texans 16 16 365 574 63.6 4,370 24 12 92.0
TOTAL 92 52 1,288 1987 64.8 15,457 83 52 91.5

He was a 3rd round pick out of Virgina, so he wasn't considered a stud QB coming out of college. His first three years in Atlanta showed folks that he had some promise. His first year in Houston, his OC was Mike Sherman, former HC for the Packers. Kyel was his QB coach. He put up good numbers but not spectacular. In 2008, Kyle Shanahan becomes his OC he starts to put up numbers with the top QB's. In 2009, with Kyle, his numbers are now that of a top QB. The team was 8-8, 8-8, & 9-7 respectively in those years, so one can't say the numbers rose with the fortune's of the team.

How much did Kyle have to do with the maturation of Matt Schaub? Can Kyle help a QB such a s Grossman elevate his game? Can Kyle help a journeyman such as Beck, find his game? These stats prove nothing, when trying to predict the future of other QBs associated with Kyle, but they do give hope that Grossman and Beck have imporved under his tutelage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Schaub

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kubiak

Alan Burge, Houston Texans Examiner:

[Editorial note: The Texans are on their fourth OC in five seasons and there's little debate about this being Gary Kubiak's offense. Generally offensive coordinators come in and bring their system. Not here. But I've been wondering how much of the Texans breakout season offensively last season was due to young whipper-snapper Kyle Shanahan thinking outside the box and challenging Kubiak in schemes and play calling. A major part of last season's success was due to Schaub's experience in the system and him staying healthy, but I wonder if the older and maybe more set-in-his-ways Dennison (I'm out on a limb here) is more of an inside the box guy that won't challenge Kubiak as much as Kyle did, and be more of a ' yes man' - leading to less creativity and more predictability. We'll see.]

Burge, gives credit to Schaub's second year in the offense and staying healthy as the major reasons for his breakout season. Interestingly, with Kyle gone, offensive numbers went down and the Texans lost three more games, but of course, there could be other factors for that. Let's not forget that Kyle was Matt's QB coach in 2007.

http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans- ... exans-mold

Matt Schaub on Kyle Shanahan:

Houston quarterback Matt Schaub, who has developed into a
prolific passer under Kyle Shanahan’s guidance, is disappointed
the coach probably will be leaving.

“He’s been a big part of what we’ve been able to do around
here,” said Schaub, who led the NFL in yards passing with 4,770.
“But whenever you’re doing good things in this league and in
this business, things are going to change. … I’m just happy
he’s getting an opportunity to move on and he’s going to be a
heck of a coach for a number of years.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3196 ... -departure


Below: Another link about how important Kyle was to the Texans

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2 ... he-texans/

[Red_One43]

Starting Beck is no 'tank' job for RedskinsBy Dan Graziano, NFC East Blog

But in the months since, it's become clear that the Redskins' 2011 quarterback plan is, in fact, Beck. Or some combination of Beck and Rex Grossman. And so the comments and questions I now receive about the Redskins' quarterback situation have two running themes, neither of which makes any sense at all:

1. The Redskins are trying to "tank" the 2011 season so they can lose as many games as possible, get the No. 1 draft pick in 2012 and take Stanford's Andrew Luck.

2. This is a good idea.

Enough already.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... r-redskins

[VetSkinsFan]

Let's not sell short the abilities of Andre Johnson to be Schaub's #1. I think they've had some awesome years from Slaton and Foster (can't recall any other RBs they had off the top of my head). Owen Daniels hasn't hurt Schaub either.

I'm not trying to sell Schaub short at all or Kyle, but there are a lot of other tools that Matt had to lead to his success.

I guess I don't like Kyle that much, either.

[Red_One43]

Let's not sell short the abilities of Andre Johnson to be Schaub's #1. I think they've had some awesome years from Slaton and Foster (can't recall any other RBs they had off the top of my head). Owen Daniels hasn't hurt Schaub either.

I'm not trying to sell Schaub short at all or Kyle, but there are a lot of other tools that Matt had to lead to his success.

I guess I don't like Kyle that much, either.

Those are some good points. We personnally saw how an injured Andre Johnson made Schaub look good on that 4th quarter, 4th down alley oop TD with Doughty hanging all over him.

[RedskinsRule56]

It's pretty simple that we are tanking for Andrew Luck and I completely endorse the move. The Future of the Redskins Franchise will be infinitely better with Luck than some other stopgap bum that we have fielded at the QB position mostly over the course of the last 20 years. We need to build our O-line as in 4 new starting O-lineman, add some WR's, we need a nose tackle, we need another DE, we need 2 LB's, probably 2 corners too. We need a punter and a kicker, and we need depth and to get younger which I think we are finally starting to do.

[RedskinsRule56]

In addition get rid of the cancer that is Albert Haynesworthless and get rid of McNabb too. Everyone needs to accept that we are going to blow this year but it is for the best as we can get Andrew Luck the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning and he will immensly help us with future success over the next 10-15 years.

[1niksder]

It's pretty simple that we are tanking for Andrew Luck and I completely endorse the move. The Future of the Redskins Franchise will be infinitely better with Luck than some other stopgap bum that we have fielded at the QB position mostly over the course of the last 20 years. We need to build our O-line as in 4 new starting O-lineman, add some WR's, we need a nose tackle, we need another DE, we need 2 LB's, probably 2 corners too. We need a punter and a kicker, and we need depth and to get younger which I think we are finally starting to do.

Unless he's not...

Shanny can tank the season if he wants but I'm sure he knows (after last year, earning the number one pick after year two and working for "the Danny") if the Skins select Luck next year he won't be making the pick and his son may never work in the league again.


Then again the Skins can lose in the first round of the playoffs in 2011 and still get the QB they want next year because rookies will cost less, so moving up in the draft will be easier to do and they they have a surplus of picks compared to previous years.

In addition get rid of the cancer that is Albert Haynesworthless and get rid of McNabb too. Everyone needs to accept that we are going to blow this year but it is for the best as we can get Andrew Luck the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning and he will immensly help us with future success over the next 10-15 years.

They might be able to get Carson Palmer and a 6th round pick for Fat Albert, DMac, and a 5th. Would we still need to spend whatever to get Luck or would another QB turnout better after sitting behind Palmer for 2 or 3 years?

[SkinsJock]

It's pretty simple that we are tanking for Andrew Luck and I completely endorse the move.

The Future of the Redskins Franchise will be infinitely better with Luck than some other stopgap bum that we have fielded at the QB position mostly over the course of the last 20 years.

We need to build our O-line as in 4 new starting O-lineman, add some WR's, we need a nose tackle, we need another DE, we need 2 LB's, probably 2 corners too. We need a punter and a kicker, and we need depth and to get younger which I think we are finally starting to do.

In addition get rid of the cancer that is Albert Haynesworthless and get rid of McNabb too.

Everyone needs to accept that we are going to blow this year but it is for the best as we can get Andrew Luck the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning and he will immensly help us with future success over the next 10-15 years.

are you kidding? I'm sorry, this is just not happening and I do not need to accept it

I agree with 1niksder - IF this franchise does not do well this year, both Mike & Kyle will not be here

Mike & Bruce are going to add the players we need to be successful as soon as possible
I think we will see a competitive product this year and a consistent playoff contender, from 2012 on

I see this franchise as being better this season than last and we are not picking in the top 10 in the next draft

[VetSkinsFan]

Why are there people who actually condone throwing a season? I don't get it. I've got a buddy that says the same thing, and I just ignore his dumb comments like that...

[SkinsJock]

good point Vet - I agree

I have heard the same thing from friends and it's really just dumb


I just couldn't let it ride

[CanesSkins26]

They might be able to get Carson Palmer and a 6th round pick for Fat Albert, DMac, and a 5th. Would we still need to spend whatever to get Luck or would another QB turnout better after sitting behind Palmer for 2 or 3 years?

Palmer would be a mistake. Play the year with Rex and Beck and then get the best qb we can in the draft. With Luck, Barkley and Jones we should be able to land a stud.

[langleyparkjoe]

Why are there people who actually condone throwing a season? I don't get it. I've got a buddy that says the same thing, and I just ignore his dumb comments like that...

I've never met anyone yet.. I think I'd just stare at them like

I don't care if we're 1-14 going into the last game.. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

[yupchagee]

It's pretty simple that we are tanking for Andrew Luck and I completely endorse the move. The Future of the Redskins Franchise will be infinitely better with Luck than some other stopgap bum that we have fielded at the QB position mostly over the course of the last 20 years. We need to build our O-line as in 4 new starting O-lineman, add some WR's, we need a nose tackle, we need another DE, we need 2 LB's, probably 2 corners too. We need a punter and a kicker, and we need depth and to get younger which I think we are finally starting to do.

It's not simple. Shanny won't do it & Danny wouldn't allow it. Besides, there is no "sure thing" in the draft, ever. Your list of our needs is highly overinflated.

[1niksder]

Why are there people who actually condone throwing a season? I don't get it. I've got a buddy that says the same thing, and I just ignore his dumb comments like that...

I've never met anyone yet.. I think I'd just stare at them like

I don't care if we're 1-14 going into the last game.. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

You never heard of that stupid slogan Suck for Luck?
Or just check out CanesSkins26's sig...

I don't get it...

Canes will agree Barkley will be just as good as Luck, but what rhymes with Barkley?

[Smithian]

What happens if we tank and end up 3-13 but a much better tank team like the Bills goes 2-14?

Do we then tank for Aaron Murray or whatever other big name QB is coming up?

[crazyhorse1]

It's pretty simple that we are tanking for Andrew Luck and I completely endorse the move. The Future of the Redskins Franchise will be infinitely better with Luck than some other stopgap bum that we have fielded at the QB position mostly over the course of the last 20 years. We need to build our O-line as in 4 new starting O-lineman, add some WR's, we need a nose tackle, we need another DE, we need 2 LB's, probably 2 corners too. We need a punter and a kicker, and we need depth and to get younger which I think we are finally starting to do.

We're not tanking to get Luck. Trust me. The Shannys are crazy enough to think we can win with Grossman and five below average offensive linemen. We'll get Luck honestly.

[langleyparkjoe]

The Shannys are crazy enough to think we can win with Grossman and five below average offensive linemen.

[CanesSkins26]

Why are there people who actually condone throwing a season? I don't get it. I've got a buddy that says the same thing, and I just ignore his dumb comments like that...

I've never met anyone yet.. I think I'd just stare at them like

I don't care if we're 1-14 going into the last game.. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

You never heard of that stupid slogan Suck for Luck?
Or just check out CanesSkins26's sig...

I don't get it...

Canes will agree Barkley will be just as good as Luck, but what rhymes with Barkley?

I like Barkley a lot; I just don't think that he's actually going to declare for the draft after this season. Lots of media reports have him leaving USC early, but they seem to be based on nothing but speculation. If you listen to the way the kid talks about USC it's hard to believe that he would bail before getting a chance to play in a bowl game and possibly make a run for the Rose Bowl or NC.

There's always Landry Jones though, who I would be just as happy to have as Luck or Barkley.

[RedskinsRule56]

It is laughable that any one thinks we will not be picking top 10 in the draft in 2012. I would love to hear the explanations as to why.

It seems to me that our #31 ranked D from last year will not be improved without Carlos Rogers who will be leaving via FA. OJ Atowge will help but we still have a terrible D-line, an average linebacking corp of which Rocky McIntosh is a FA and could leave. and a secondary that will start DeAngelo Hall who is terrible in coverage, gives up big plays and awful at tackling. His only positive is that he get a lot of picks. With who Phillip Buchannon who is also a FA and Kevin Barnes as our #2 and 3 corners. Who replaces Haynesworthless at Nose Tackle? Are we really going to rely on 2 rookies Jarvis Jenkins and Ryan Kerrigan to be that great their first year? We still have crappy Adam Carriker and Ma'ake Kemoeatu.

Lets take a look at our offense we will be starting John Beck or Rex Grossman at Qb sorry huge downgrade from McNabb. With Trent Williams and 4 other bums I will not even talk about on the o-line. I will say that Jammal Brown is a FA so we could be losing one of our starting bum o-lineman. Lets say we resign Santana Moss. So we have Hankerson, Moss and Anthony Armstrong at WR. Very weak. Who starts at RB? Roy Helu JR? Ryan Torrain. Not to forget to mention that our kicker Graham Gano missed the FG's in the league last year yet we never cut him and we also went through 3 punters last year. Do you really feel that an offense that struggled to score last year will be any improved this year with John Beck or Grossman starting at QB? YEAH RIGHT! We have a major lack of talent. We should continue to rebuild and get younger.

Why are a lot of posters against "The Suck for Luck" Campaign? Every contender in the NFL has either an upcoming young QB Stud, an already proven good QB and upwards of a great or Elite QB. We have not had a franchise QB since Joe Theismann. Look at the last 18 SB winning QB's post Mark Rypien. 15 of them are studs with quite a few (Brady, Peyton Manning, Favre, Elway, Warner, Aikman, Montana, Young) Being HOF QB's. (Elite QB's Brees and Roethlistberger) WE NEED A STUD QB to turn this franchise around. What is the point of having another dismal season where we win 4-6 games. What does that do for us? Sorry everyone but neither John Beck or Rex Grossman are the long term answer at QB for our franchise.

Does that get us Landry Jones or Matt Barkley. I would rather win 1-3 games, whatever it takes to get Andrew Luck at #1 and Have the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning, some even say John Elway. Getting Luck will set us up for a much better for future success over the next 10-15 years. So Yes, I want to tank the season with the goal in mind of future long term success.

[VetSkinsFan]

It is laughable that any one thinks we will not be picking top 10 in the draft in 2012. I would love to hear the explanations as to why.

It seems to me that our #31 ranked D from last year will not be improved without Carlos Rogers who will be leaving via FA. OJ Atowge will help but we still have a terrible D-line, an average linebacking corp of which Rocky McIntosh is a FA and could leave. and a secondary that will start DeAngelo Hall who is terrible in coverage, gives up big plays and awful at tackling. His only positive is that he get a lot of picks. With who Phillip Buchannon who is also a FA and Kevin Barnes as our #2 and 3 corners. Who replaces Haynesworthless at Nose Tackle? Are we really going to rely on 2 rookies Jarvis Jenkins and Ryan Kerrigan to be that great their first year? We still have crappy Adam Carriker and Ma'ake Kemoeatu.

Lets take a look at our offense we will be starting John Beck or Rex Grossman at Qb sorry huge downgrade from McNabb. With Trent Williams and 4 other bums I will not even talk about on the o-line. I will say that Jammal Brown is a FA so we could be losing one of our starting bum o-lineman. Lets say we resign Santana Moss. So we have Hankerson, Moss and Anthony Armstrong at WR. Very weak. Who starts at RB? Roy Helu JR? Ryan Torrain. Not to forget to mention that our kicker Graham Gano missed the FG's in the league last year yet we never cut him and we also went through 3 punters last year. Do you really feel that an offense that struggled to score last year will be any improved this year with John Beck or Grossman starting at QB? YEAH RIGHT! We have a major lack of talent. We should continue to rebuild and get younger.

Why are a lot of posters against "The Suck for Luck" Campaign? Every contender in the NFL has either an upcoming young QB Stud, an already proven good QB and upwards of a great or Elite QB. We have not had a franchise QB since Joe Theismann. Look at the last 18 SB winning QB's post Mark Rypien. 15 of them are studs with quite a few (Brady, Peyton Manning, Favre, Elway, Warner, Aikman, Montana, Young) Being HOF QB's. (Elite QB's Brees and Roethlistberger) WE NEED A STUD QB to turn this franchise around. What is the point of having another dismal season where we win 4-6 games. What does that do for us? Sorry everyone but neither John Beck or Rex Grossman are the long term answer at QB for our franchise.

Does that get us Landry Jones or Matt Barkley. I would rather win 1-3 games, whatever it takes to get Andrew Luck at #1 and Have the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning, some even say John Elway. Getting Luck will set us up for a much better for future success over the next 10-15 years. So Yes, I want to tank the season with the goal in mind of future long term success.

Hey, I'll give the post an A for honest, but a for content.

You don't blow one year and content the next; this isn't Madden. It's a continuous effort with continuous improvement. No man with any self-respect can tank a game, let alone a season.

[1niksder]

It is laughable that any one thinks we will not be picking top 10 in the draft in 2012. I would love to hear the explanations as to why.

1. Teams haven't had a single practice that has included coaches, trainers and players.

2.Not one NFL roster has been finalized.

3. The Redskins are one of the few teams that has actually added a free agent or two to their roster.

4. No games have been played. NONE

It seems to me that our #31 ranked D from last year will not be improved without Carlos Rogers who will be leaving via FA. OJ Atowge will help but we still have a terrible D-line, an average linebacking corp of which Rocky McIntosh is a FA and could leave. and a secondary that will start DeAngelo Hall who is terrible in coverage, gives up big plays and awful at tackling. His only positive is that he get a lot of picks. With who Phillip Buchannon who is also a FA and Kevin Barnes as our #2 and 3 corners. Who replaces Haynesworthless at Nose Tackle? Are we really going to rely on 2 rookies Jarvis Jenkins and Ryan Kerrigan to be that great their first year? We still have crappy Adam Carriker and Ma'ake Kemoeatu.

That 31st ranked defense will be into it's second of a new system and should have more players suitable for the scheme, maybe not everyone but more will be suited than what they had last year. You say they won't improve without Rogers although he can't catch a cold, yet you fail to realize if he leaves via FA than there is a good chance someone will be picked up in FA (preferably someone that can hold on to the ball) DHall is DHall he does his job, that's all we can ask for right now at CB, OJ is a pretty good center fielder so Hall's freelancing won't hurt so much with Atowge playing behind him. You call AH "Haynesworthless", and I don't have a problem with that. My problem is you calling him worthless yet worry about who his replacement will be. I'm thinking anyone not worthless could fit the bill but you sound like a replacement will be a challenge . For the record Jarvis Jenkins will play DE and Ryan Kerrigan will play OLB neither were picked to replace a worthless NT but either would be a upgrade over AH last season. Adam Carriker and Ma'ake Kemoeatu were both coming off of injuries after 2009, and both played extended time last year, AC is a DE not NT and Kemo is 50-50 to make the squad. They did draft a NT and A Bryant was pretty go at the end of the year. Then again AH wasn't a Nose Tackle he was a No Show.

Lets take a look at our offense we will be starting John Beck or Rex Grossman at Qb sorry huge downgrade from McNabb. With Trent Williams and 4 other bums I will not even talk about on the o-line. I will say that Jammal Brown is a FA so we could be losing one of our starting bum o-lineman. Lets say we resign Santana Moss. So we have Hankerson, Moss and Anthony Armstrong at WR. Very weak. Who starts at RB? Roy Helu JR? Ryan Torrain. Not to forget to mention that our kicker Graham Gano missed the FG's in the league last year yet we never cut him and we also went through 3 punters last year. Do you really feel that an offense that struggled to score last year will be any improved this year with John Beck or Grossman starting at QB? YEAH RIGHT! We have a major lack of talent. We should continue to rebuild and get younger

McNabb didn't know the system or didn't want to run the system, then Grossman came in to finish the season and didn't look too bad compared to McNabb. Beck is a wild card that the team didn't feel like they needed to look at, at the end of last season. Yet somehow you know any option is a downgrade from McNabb, you'll need to elaborate on that one.

I'm thinking you only know one of the starting O-linemen by name and that's why you said Trent Williams 4 other bums, it's more like Trent and who knows, but they aren't bums. Kory and Will are both guards that can play center and free agency may cause a few position changes. Brown the free agent Bum has made two pro bowls and is also coming off a 2009 injury will more than likely return and he isn't a bum.

I hope Moss comes back Hank is a rookie and AA is a up and comer, You them weak but that's not all the receivers on the team. ey and Davis have very good hands and know what to do with the ball once they have it. RB is a open competition, what's wrong with that?

Why are a lot of posters against "The Suck for Luck" Campaign? Every contender in the NFL has either an upcoming young QB Stud, an already proven good QB and upwards of a great or Elite QB. We have not had a franchise QB since Joe Theismann. Look at the last 18 SB winning QB's post Mark Rypien. 15 of them are studs with quite a few (Brady, Peyton Manning, Favre, Elway, Warner, Aikman, Montana, Young) Being HOF QB's. (Elite QB's Brees and Roethlistberger) WE NEED A STUD QB to turn this franchise around. What is the point of having another dismal season where we win 4-6 games. What does that do for us? Sorry everyone but neither John Beck or Rex Grossman are the long term answer at QB for our franchise.

How many of those contenders went all the way with a rookie QB? So you want to suck for Luck... meaning make no progress in putting a winning product on the field, no progress in building this team for the future, and no hope for 2012. You want to SUCK for LUCK so down the road they'll Suck with Luck, but you don't get why posters don't want to root for a losing season.

Does that get us Landry Jones or Matt Barkley. I would rather win 1-3 games, whatever it takes to get Andrew Luck at #1 and Have the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning, some even say John Elway. Getting Luck will set us up for a much better for future success over the next 10-15 years. So Yes, I want to tank the season with the goal in mind of future long term success.

Future long term success can't be grounded in tanking a season for one guy, unless you are of the thought that this team is one player away from being elite. If that's your train of thought than think about this....

The Washington Redskins are not one player away from anything let alone being elite, regardless of who that player is or may become.

Hey, I'll give the post an A for honest, but a for content.

You don't blow one year and content the next; this isn't Madden. It's a continuous effort with continuous improvement. No man with any self-respect can tank a game, let alone a season.

+1