WR..... Who stays? Who goes? who comes back?

[The Hogster]

Who cares what size he is when he's proven he can produce as the highest level as a Kick and Punt returner. People act like they grow on trees. He was probably our Special Teams POY last year. You don't cut him just because he's small. He plays big.

[The Hogster]

The longer this thread goes, the more clear it is that some people simply have a very short memory.

[CanesSkins26]

About Banks' college experience, just like any former D I college player, success at that level doesn't guarantee success at the pro level, but Banks' 107 catches at the highest college level say that he has the potential to be a contributing WR with the Skins.

No, all it says is that he was productive in college.

Who on this thread would have thought, prior to the regular season, that Shanny woulds send Banks off tackle on running plays? The fact is, to the guy that matters, Shanny, size is not the determinging factor on keeping Banks. Clearly Shanny doesn't see Banks as one dimensional.

So one play shows that he isn't one dimensional? Haha ok. Or maybe it's his two receptions in 13 games that show's he one dimensional.

IF, and it's a big if, one of the rookies proves to be an adequate replacement for Banks as a returner, he will be gone.

[brad7686]

It doesn't really matter if he can be a receiver or not. He's far and away the best return option and it would be pure idiocy to cut him. How often is the fifth or sixth receiver going to play anyway aside from special teams?

[VetSkinsFan]

It doesn't really matter if he can be a receiver or not. He's far and away the best return option and it would be pure idiocy to cut him. How often is the fifth or sixth receiver going to play anyway aside from special teams?

With that mentality, I think there is a gray area about what Banks is actually considered. I don't think he was on the field offensively long enough to really be considered in a WR position. He ran WildCat, which both WR and RB line up at, so that's not really defining.

My PoV is that as long as that slot isn't needed for a WR (inuries do happen, even more obvious if we hang on to Malcolm Kelly) and he may be expected to play WR in bad circumstances.

As for his slot on the team, I don't have an issue with him. The concern is that he really can't play much else on special teams. He's really not big enough to play gunner; he will get manhandled simply b/c of his lack of size.

I don't think anyone can deny his return ability, and I really haven't seen anyone argue that he's not an asset as a returner. I think the large debate is if we can get better overall utility with that roster spot with someone else.

[langleyparkjoe]

I'll only speak regarding Santana..

HE CAN PLAY ANY WR POSITION ON THE FIELD.. please just exclude him from whatever comparisons ya'll come up with for our WRs.. he's proven time and time again you can put him anywhere out there and good things happen.

That's all, carry-on.

[1niksder]

Who cares what size he is when he's proven he can produce as the highest level as a Kick and Punt returner. People act like they grow on trees. He was probably our Special Teams POY last year. You don't cut him just because he's small. He plays big.

No one is debating his skills as a return man. We had A.R.E. before Banks, Banks could have been three steps slower, and unable to cut in any direction and we would have loved him when compared to what we had.

Banks is the best Returner the Skins have had in a long time and may be the next Devin Hester, who knows, but as a WR he'll have to earn a spot on the roster if he is out performed or equaled as a return-man.

You can say what you want about his skills as a wideout or how Shanny must feel about him when compared to the other WRs on the roster last year, just remember Banks was the least productive WR on a team that had Joey Galloway as a starter for a quarter of the season.

Again, I say let's look at the facts. Terrence Austin is a good kick kick returner in his own right. He is bigger than Banks. Austin, probably, as of last year, is better than Banks at the wide receiver position, but Shanny decided on Banks over Austin.

Shanny chose Banks over Austin as far as return duties go but if you really look at the facts you'll see Austin had more catches, yards, YPC, and first down catches as a WR than Banks did. Banks was active before Austin but when Shanny needed one of them to line up at WR Banks wasn't chosen over Austin nor did he out preform him.

Who on this thread would have thought, prior to the regular season, that Shanny woulds send Banks off tackle on running plays?

Banks had two carries for six yards, it's not like he was a fixture in the backfield (12 different guys ran the ball last year) even Larry Johnson got a handful of carries last season

Size will be a issue when you have two/three guys that give you the same thing in the kicking game but some can play kick coverage and run a corner fade in the red zone, and one can't do either.

Whenever camps open Banks will be the No.1 return man and it will be his spot to lose, if there is someone that challenges him for that roll and can fill other rolls as well, Banks will be in trouble.

[Countertrey]

The fact that we have several players now that are as fast as Banks cuts no ice at all with me. He doesn't just have speed. He also has great vision
and the ability to follow blocks. He simply has a knack others don't. Time after time last year he ran the ball back all the way or put us in great field position. He was one of just a handful of our players last year who excelled at his position. If everyone had played as well as he did last year, we would have contended.

This is an excellent point. If you know anything from watching the Redskins 2 best returners in their history, Mike Nelms and Brian Mitchell (neither of whom was ever the fastest player on the field), you know that field vision trumps speed... even Rock Cartwright, who had very average speed, could consistently rack up above average returns. Field vision WITH speed is brutal. The return game requires special and rare skills. Banks has them... PLUS, he's super fast.

[The Hogster]

I think those who aren't convinced Banks will earn a spot are severely underestimating the value of a Kick Returner, versus the value of your 5th or 6th receiver.

Most team's 5th or 6th receiver has little impact in the passing game and are usually average Special Teams contributers (Gunners etc). We have a guy who can be a Pro Bowl return man, and who may or may not ever be used aside from some quick screens, and gadget plays.

An average 6th receiver and average Teams player does not trump a Pro Bowl return man.

BTW - being a "Return Man" is not an insult. Please note that players like Dante Hall, Devin Hester, & Josh Cribbs saw decreases in return productivity when asked to play more receiver. Specializing in one thing isn't necessarily a hinderance.

[gay4pacman]

PFT has the bears as possible suitors for santana once free agency starts. Martz offense would be a good fit for tana i just hope this doesnt come to fruition!

stay tana you are a true skinny!

[crazyhorse1]

Who cares what size he is when he's proven he can produce as the highest level as a Kick and Punt returner. People act like they grow on trees. He was probably our Special Teams POY last year. You don't cut him just because he's small. He plays big.

No one is debating his skills as a return man. We had A.R.E. before Banks, Banks could have been three steps slower, and unable to cut in any direction and we would have loved him when compared to what we had.

Banks is the best Returner the Skins have had in a long time and may be the next Devin Hester, who knows, but as a WR he'll have to earn a spot on the roster if he is out performed or equaled as a return-man.

You can say what you want about his skills as a wideout or how Shanny must feel about him when compared to the other WRs on the roster last year, just remember Banks was the least productive WR on a team that had Joey Galloway as a starter for a quarter of the season.

Again, I say let's look at the facts. Terrence Austin is a good kick kick returner in his own right. He is bigger than Banks. Austin, probably, as of last year, is better than Banks at the wide receiver position, but Shanny decided on Banks over Austin.

Shanny chose Banks over Austin as far as return duties go but if you really look at the facts you'll see Austin had more catches, yards, YPC, and first down catches as a WR than Banks did. Banks was active before Austin but when Shanny needed one of them to line up at WR Banks wasn't chosen over Austin nor did he out preform him.

Who on this thread would have thought, prior to the regular season, that Shanny woulds send Banks off tackle on running plays?

Banks had two carries for six yards, it's not like he was a fixture in the backfield (12 different guys ran the ball last year) even Larry Johnson got a handful of carries last season

Size will be a issue when you have two/three guys that give you the same thing in the kicking game but some can play kick coverage and run a corner fade in the red zone, and one can't do either.

Whenever camps open Banks will be the No.1 return man and it will be his spot to lose, if there is someone that challenges him for that roll and can fill other rolls as well, Banks will be in trouble.

Who cares what he can do as a WR? He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

[1niksder]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

[CanesSkins26]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

How dare you bring facts into this debate

[1niksder]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

How dare you bring facts into this debate

MY BAD... but since we're talking facts... Chad Simpson averaged 4 yards more per return than Banks.
Does that mean if he stays healthy he'll beat Banks out for the return job? If so will Banks make the roster as a 5th or 6th WR?

[The Hogster]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

How dare you bring facts into this debate

MY BAD... but since we're talking facts... Chad Simpson averaged 4 yards more per return than Banks.
Does that mean if he stays healthy he'll beat Banks out for the return job? If so will Banks make the roster as a 5th or 6th WR?

Because those are not facts. They are numbers. The fact of the matter is, it depends on how you are ranking the returners. Look at the stats based on the number of returns that Banks had, his yardage, and the games that he played. He's at least in the Top 10 in every category except KO Return average. He's 12th. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... KickReturn

The fact is he missed games due to 1) being cut, and 2) having knee surgery. The fact is despite an early recovery from knee surgery,he put together an explosive season. The fact is several other top returners had 0 catches and 0 yards as a WR. (See Stefan Logan and Marc Mariani)

[Red_One43]

I'll only speak regarding Santana..

HE CAN PLAY ANY WR POSITION ON THE FIELD.. please just exclude him from whatever comparisons ya'll come up with for our WRs.. he's proven time and time again you can put him anywhere out there and good things happen.

That's all, carry-on.

He can return punts too.

[Red_One43]

Who cares what size he is when he's proven he can produce as the highest level as a Kick and Punt returner. People act like they grow on trees. He was probably our Special Teams POY last year. You don't cut him just because he's small. He plays big.

No one is debating his skills as a return man. We had A.R.E. before Banks, Banks could have been three steps slower, and unable to cut in any direction and we would have loved him when compared to what we had.

Banks is the best Returner the Skins have had in a long time and may be the next Devin Hester, who knows, but as a WR he'll have to earn a spot on the roster if he is out performed or equaled as a return-man.

You can say what you want about his skills as a wideout or how Shanny must feel about him when compared to the other WRs on the roster last year, just remember Banks was the least productive WR on a team that had Joey Galloway as a starter for a quarter of the season.

Again, I say let's look at the facts. Terrence Austin is a good kick kick returner in his own right. He is bigger than Banks. Austin, probably, as of last year, is better than Banks at the wide receiver position, but Shanny decided on Banks over Austin.

Shanny chose Banks over Austin as far as return duties go but if you really look at the facts you'll see Austin had more catches, yards, YPC, and first down catches as a WR than Banks did. Banks was active before Austin but when Shanny needed one of them to line up at WR Banks wasn't chosen over Austin nor did he out preform him.

Who on this thread would have thought, prior to the regular season, that Shanny woulds send Banks off tackle on running plays?

Banks had two carries for six yards, it's not like he was a fixture in the backfield (12 different guys ran the ball last year) even Larry Johnson got a handful of carries last season

Size will be a issue when you have two/three guys that give you the same thing in the kicking game but some can play kick coverage and run a corner fade in the red zone, and one can't do either.

Whenever camps open Banks will be the No.1 return man and it will be his spot to lose, if there is someone that challenges him for that roll and can fill other rolls as well, Banks will be in trouble.

But facts are facts, when it came down to the final 53 for opening day, Banks was on it and Austin was not. Banks was chosen over a guy who might be a better receiver. Here's why Banks was not used as a wide receiver more later in the season. Banks had knee surgery. You don't risk your ace return man getting hurt on a cut while running a route.

“That’s been our goal all along,” Shanahan said. “Banks has some very good receiver skills. He’s got very good hands, he’s tough, and the more consistent he can be in practice -- it’s been tough because he got hurt -- but we would like to get him more involved.”

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-skins/2010 ... -4852.html

No one is saying that Banks is a fixture in the backfield - I am saying that Shanny wasn't afraid to let him hit the line. The too small stuff that others are saying (not you) doesn't fly with Shanny.

[Red_One43]

About Banks' college experience, just like any former D I college player, success at that level doesn't guarantee success at the pro level, but Banks' 107 catches at the highest college level say that he has the potential to be a contributing WR with the Skins.

No, all it says is that he was productive in college.

Who on this thread would have thought, prior to the regular season, that Shanny woulds send Banks off tackle on running plays? The fact is, to the guy that matters, Shanny, size is not the determinging factor on keeping Banks. Clearly Shanny doesn't see Banks as one dimensional.

So one play shows that he isn't one dimensional? Haha ok. Or maybe it's his two receptions in 13 games that show's he one dimensional.

IF, and it's a big if, one of the rookies proves to be an adequate replacement for Banks as a returner, he will be gone.

College performance happens to be why guys are drafted or picked up as undrafted free agents. They are drafted or invited to camp for their potential. You stink in college, you don't get drafted or invited to camp. You look great in college but it was against iinferior competition, your chances of getting drafted or invited to camp are slim. Banks got invited. He played against top level competition.

My point on his Banks' wildcat plays is Shanny had no problem sending the little guy into the teeth of the line.

Banks had knee surgery? Yes. Risking yout ace return man to injury on a cut? A smart coach wouldn't do it and Shanny didn't.

“That’s been our goal all along,” Shanahan said. “Banks has some very good receiver skills. He’s got very good hands, he’s tough, and the more consistent he can be in practice -- it’s been tough because he got hurt -- but we would like to get him more involved.”

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-skins/2010 ... -4852.html

You have yet to explainwhy Banks made the opening day roster and Austin didn't. If Shanny saw only a one dimensional guy, why would he keep him over a two dimensional guy like Austin?

[Red_One43]

The fact that we have several players now that are as fast as Banks cuts no ice at all with me. He doesn't just have speed. He also has great vision
and the ability to follow blocks. He simply has a knack others don't. Time after time last year he ran the ball back all the way or put us in great field position. He was one of just a handful of our players last year who excelled at his position. If everyone had played as well as he did last year, we would have contended.

This is an excellent point. If you know anything from watching the Redskins 2 best returners in their history, Mike Nelms and Brian Mitchell (neither of whom was ever the fastest player on the field), you know that field vision trumps speed... even Rock Cartwright, who had very average speed, could consistently rack up above average returns. Field vision WITH speed is brutal. The return game requires special and rare skills. Banks has them... PLUS, he's super fast.

+1

[Red_One43]

I think those who aren't convinced Banks will earn a spot are severely underestimating the value of a Kick Returner, versus the value of your 5th or 6th receiver.

Most team's 5th or 6th receiver has little impact in the passing game and are usually average Special Teams contributers (Gunners etc). We have a guy who can be a Pro Bowl return man, and who may or may not ever be used aside from some quick screens, and gadget plays.

An average 6th receiver and average Teams player does not trump a Pro Bowl return man.

BTW - being a "Return Man" is not an insult. Please note that players like Dante Hall, Devin Hester, & Josh Cribbs saw decreases in return productivity when asked to play more receiver. Specializing in one thing isn't necessarily a hinderance.

+1

BMitch on his radio show said that he felt that ARE lost the "It" as a returner when he became a starter.

[Red_One43]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

Hey check out Joe Webb, he is ranked 7th in KO returns for 2010 - 20 spots ahead of Brandon Banks. So, is Dan Connolly, a guard! ranked 20 spots ahead of Banks! Both Conolly and Web are ranked 16 spots higher than Leon Washington, a guy who had three 3 TDs!

7 Dan Connolly NE G 3 90 30.0 71 0 1 1 0 0
7 Joe Webb MIN QB 1 30 30.0 30 0 1 0 0 0
23 Leon Washington SEA RB 57 1,461 25.6 101T 3 34 7 0 2
27 Brandon Banks WAS WR 46 1,155 25.1 96T 1 34 4 0 1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... &Submit=Go

[1niksder]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

Hey check out Joe Webb, he is ranked 7th in KO returns for 2010 - 20 spots ahead of Brandon Banks. So, is Dan Connolly, a guard! ranked 20 spots ahead of Banks! Both Conolly and Web are ranked 16 spots higher than Leon Washington, a guy who had three 3 TDs!

7 Dan Connolly NE G 3 90 30.0 71 0 1 1 0 0
7 Joe Webb MIN QB 1 30 30.0 30 0 1 0 0 0
23 Leon Washington SEA RB 57 1,461 25.6 101T 3 34 7 0 2
27 Brandon Banks WAS WR 46 1,155 25.1 96T 1 34 4 0 1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... &Submit=Go

As I said you can take out everyone with less than 10 returns and Banks still doesn't rank top ten.

You might want to talk to ch1, he wanted to know about players that are not one dimensional and you found a guard, QB and running back that can play their positions and do the one thing that Brandon can do.

In fact Dan Connolly is the greatest lineman to return a kickoff and he has the longest in NFL history for a lineman (was tackled 4 yards short of the goal line and would have equaled Banks if he wasn't 300+ lbs.), to prove it. ch1 mentioned Trent Williams so Banks really might want to look out.

Webb was a rookie and backup QB to a hall of famer just trying to get on the field. Webb was in more offensive sets at QB than Banks was at WR although Banks played behind a bunch of guys that may never be heard from again once they are off this roster.

[Red_One43]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

Hey check out Joe Webb, he is ranked 7th in KO returns for 2010 - 20 spots ahead of Brandon Banks. So, is Dan Connolly, a guard! ranked 20 spots ahead of Banks! Both Conolly and Web are ranked 16 spots higher than Leon Washington, a guy who had three 3 TDs!

7 Dan Connolly NE G 3 90 30.0 71 0 1 1 0 0
7 Joe Webb MIN QB 1 30 30.0 30 0 1 0 0 0
23 Leon Washington SEA RB 57 1,461 25.6 101T 3 34 7 0 2
27 Brandon Banks WAS WR 46 1,155 25.1 96T 1 34 4 0 1

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... &Submit=Go

As I said you can take out everyone with less than 10 returns and Banks still doesn't rank top ten.

And your point is? "Great" is a subjective word. It can be used in different ways. In terms of value to the team, I would say that Banks had a great season for the Redskins. Rankings alone do not determine a player's greatness. Why would you even mention that Banks ranked 27th if you know that several "greats" like Connolly and Webb out ranked him on KO returns, but don't qualify?

Why mention that Devin Thomas was three points higher than Banks in Pre-season nKO returns? Most fans and certainly the coach, Shanny, would prefer Banks over Thomas any day. Check me if I am wrong, but CH! said that Banks was a great returner. That includes punts. During the pre season Banks took one to the house. And Devin Thomas too a KO to the house? Not. Ability to score is a big factor in a coaches mind when it comes to deciding on a returner. Banks has that ability when he touches the ball.

Yes, keep in mind that the discussion is whether or not someone with kick return skills and can play wide receiver will take Banks' slot. Your "facts" or rather stats proved nothing and since "great" is an opinion word, you didn't prove CH1 wrong either.

Fact is you still haven't addressed the fact that Shanny has proven that he will keep Banks over a bigger guy that who can play wideout and return kicks, Austin. That fsct does add to the discussion because if there is a guy Shanny keeps over Banks, we can be assured that that guy is darrn good all around and I could live with that. Fact is you have decided not to take in account Shanny's own words that Banks was injured so he didn't use him more at wide receiver.

[Red_One43]

Who cares what he can do as a WR?

The Redskins have almost NO receiving corps. So I would say quite a few people care if a guy that's listed as a WR can play WR.

He's a great KR and PR guy. Guess what? Most NFL players are one dimensional, including the best ones. Ever seen Randy Moss make a tackle. How many positions do you think T. Williams can play--two, like Banks. Most guys can play only one.

Banks was ranked 27th in the NFL (not even top 10 if you remove anyone with less than 10 returns) in average yards per KO return in 2010, and barely makes the top 20 of punt returners for 2010, at best he has played one season as a WR/KR. No one is great after one year, so you need to stick to the facts here.

In fact if we just stuck to the Redskins, some guy named Devin Thomas averaged almost 3 yards more per kickoff return than Banks did last season (he can't play WR and isn't a great KR either). Again the discussion is about weather or not he'll lose his job to someone that can do more than just return kicks.

How dare you bring facts into this debate

And these stats added what to the debate? That we should trade for joe Webb because he ranked 20 spots ahead of Banks on one KO return, he's twice as tall and big as Banks, he can play wide receiver and he's can line up as a QB ta boot? Betterstill how about that guard Connolly for the Pats he also ranked 7th, 20 spots ahead of Banks. Those guys are definitely nore than one dimensional.

Let's trade for him and see if he can play wide receiver. Let's not stop there bring Thomas back since he averaged almost 3 yards more per KO return.

The fact is Shanny likes Banks and doesn't see him as one dimensional - read the quote I posted on this thread. The fact is Shanny kept Banks for his opening day roster and you can bet it wasn't because Banks can only return kicks.

[The Hogster]

This argument against Banks is just getting desperate. Even if you ignore the time he missed due to injury, let's look at this argument against him being "one dimensional" as a return man. Let's look at productivity as a WR of the league's top returners based on 1niksder's method.

Top Kickoff Returners Who are WR's With Higher KOR Average Than Banks

David Reed BAL 0 catches 0 yards 0 TD
Brad Smith NYJ 4 catches 44 yards 0 TD
Eric Weem ATL 6 catches 60 yards 0 TD
Stefan Logan DET 0 catches 0 yards 0 TD
Brandon Tate NE 24 cactches 432 yards 3 TD
Michael Spurlock TB 17 catches 250 yards 2TD
Marc Mariani TEN 0 catches 0 yards 0 TD
Eric Decker DEN 6 catches 106 yards 1 TD
Brandon Banks WAS 2 catches 10 yards 0 TD

Only 2 of the WRs who lead the league in KOR average caught more than 10 passes. Only 4 caught more than 5. Only 1, Brandon Tate, caught more than 20. And, Tate got elevated to start when the Pats traded Moss. ALSO, only 2 of these returners made the Top 10 in Punt Returns--Mariani & Logan BOTH of whom caught no passes as a WR

Top Punt Returners Who Are WR With Higher PR Avg Than Banks

Devin Hester 40 catches 475 yds 4 TD
Julian Edelman 7 catches 86 yards 0TD
Ted Ginn 12 catches 163 yards 1 TD
Marc Mariani 0 catcehs 0 yards 0 TD
Stefan Logan 0 catcches 0 yards 0 TD
Eddie Royal 59 catches 627 yards 0TD
Desean Jackson 47 catches 1,056 yards 6 TD
Davonne Bess 79 catches 820 yards 5 TD

The stats show that the only 2 Wide Receivers made the TOP 10 in BOTH Kickoff Returns & Punt Returns. NEITHER caught a single pass or gained a single yard as a WR. Brandon Banks is in the Top 10 as a PR Avg, and is 12th in KOR Average. AND he had over twice as many KO Returns--46--than two of the WR's with a higher average--David Reed & Eric Decker.

The guy is a special returner. To expect him to catch 25-30 balls for 500-900 yards while also maintaining his return production on Kickoffs & Punts, and giving us a legit scoring threat is unrealistic at best, and hating on him at worst. He is a return man and a very very good one. A rare one who can excel at Kickoffs & Punts. If you ask me, that's 2 dimensions.