Jarvis Jenkins

[CanesSkins26]

I understand that everyone is enamored with the bench press, but why? I understand it for O Lineman (they use the same motion to pass block and its a good judgement of much weight they could "push"), but I dont see why its such a focus for other positions.

As a DE, you are trying to tie up blockers for your LBs, cause a stalemate to fill a hole, or rush the passer. In all of those instances, I fail to see how bench press is a good indication of success.

Rushing the passer is about speed (speed rush), technique (swim move, rip move) and lower body strength (bull rush)

If you are trying to tie up blockers or cause a stalemate, then you are actually using the oppositte motion of the bench press, which renders it useless.

I understand it gives scouts a good idea of upper body strength, but the OL is one of the only positions where I see it a useful assesment tool.

If anything, I think they should start doing squat tests at the combine as your lower body strength is more important then upper body strength in most positions (except OL) Just my 2 cents..

The bench press by itself means little. But a bench press that poor for someone that size is a sign that he needs to work harder and be in better shape. I remember when we drafted him, several of the commentators on ESPN and the NFL network mentioned that Jenkins needs to work on his body. Considering how good the strength and conditioning programs are at most D-I schools, there is no excuse for someone Jenkins' size to not be in better shape.

[skins2357]

understandable, but what if he squats 1000 lbs and has solid technique, but is "soft" uptop and "only" does 17 reps @ 225. My point is that bench press has little to do with onfield production and everyone including commentators overhypes it, especially at the combine. There are other things that offer better judgement assesments then bench or body type

[DarthMonk]

The Steelers do this on a regular basis.

DarthMonk

Actually any pick in rounds 1-3 is expected to make the team, rd 1 - impact player, rd 2 - solid starter possible probowler, rd 3 - starter/solid reserve.

That's better then any team does on a regular basis much what's "expected"

[1niksder]

The bigger picture is if we signed Nnamdi then we would have entirely too much money invested in our secondary. Hall has a big contract, Nnamdi would have a bigger contract, Atogwe has a decent chunk AND we are looking to extend LaRon. I dont think we could reasonably offer Nnamdi the contract he needs

Hall has 4 years and $27 million left ($16.5 in the last 2 years) with no prorated money left on the cap, and Atogwe's deal averages a little more $5 million and less than $10 million of the 5 year $25 million deal is guaranteed (all but $2 million will be paid in 2011). Signing Aso won't be a issue as far as cap space goes so it won't e a surprise when it happen...

Laron MUST be extended

That would be some sick secondary though, wouldn't it


I'm not sure what is going to happen but I do think they'll try and keep Rogers OR they'll find another decent CB to help our secondary

They are/will be 1 CB short of having a VERY good secondary and Aso will be the best on the market. Shanny as said he would bring in young free agents to help build the roster and depth once/if free agency starts.

With both the Beagles and Gnats both rumored to be interested in Aso it might be a good idea to take him off the market quickly.

no matter who is in the secondary - the success of the secondary in the passing game is directly associated with having a front 7 that can constantly pressure the QB - we have not had that for a while
I hope we have some more players in our plans for both potential starters PLUS some decent depth for the front 7

Signing Aso would feed into the believe that nothing has changed at Redskins Park and that "the Danny" is still running the show. The singing would actually show a complete reversal of how things were done. Vinny signed and overpaid FA to upgrade the front 7 and used whatever draft picks he couldn't get rid of on the back 7. This led to a lack of youth up front and no experience in the back, the LB corp always has a mixture of age and youth.

The past two off seasons has added youth to the roster on both sides of the line, they added vets to the secondary, and drafted potential starters for the front seven. With the draft coming before free agency has actually helped the team do the right thing.

[UK Skins Fan]

225 lbs x 17 reps = 340 lbs (just for those wondering)

Well, you're going to have to explain that mathematical equation to me!

[SkinsJock]

... Signing Aso would feed into the believe that nothing has changed at Redskins Park and that "the Danny" is still running the show. The signing would actually show a complete reversal of how things were done. Vinny signed and overpaid FA to upgrade the front 7 and used whatever draft picks he couldn't get rid of on the back 7. This led to a lack of youth up front and no experience in the back, the LB corp always has a mixture of age and youth.

The past two off seasons has added youth to the roster on both sides of the line, they added vets to the secondary, and drafted potential starters for the front seven. With the draft coming before free agency has actually helped the team do the right thing.

I think we agree here - I am hoping that we continue to add players that suit the defensive scheme that these guys want here

As far as Jenkins or ANY player coming out of college is concerned - no amount of bench pressing or physical prowess means anything if you do not come in and really make an incredible effort to play in the NFL - take a look how bad Brady looked on film at the combine and you'll wonder how he even got drafted - he was a slob!

these players sometimes think that all they need to do is to get drafted by some team - getting drafted is not nearly as hard as making the roster

I'm hoping that Jenkins shows he can play in the NFL - nobody ('cept Canes maybe) will give a damn about his weight room 'weakness'

[crazyhorse1]

I understand that everyone is enamored with the bench press, but why? I understand it for O Lineman (they use the same motion to pass block and its a good judgement of much weight they could "push"), but I dont see why its such a focus for other positions.

As a DE, you are trying to tie up blockers for your LBs, cause a stalemate to fill a hole, or rush the passer. In all of those instances, I fail to see how bench press is a good indication of success.

Rushing the passer is about speed (speed rush), technique (swim move, rip move) and lower body strength (bull rush)

If you are trying to tie up blockers or cause a stalemate, then you are actually using the oppositte motion of the bench press, which renders it useless.

I understand it gives scouts a good idea of upper body strength, but the OL is one of the only positions where I see it a useful assesment tool.

If anything, I think they should start doing squat tests at the combine as your lower body strength is more important then upper body strength in most positions (except OL) Just my 2 cents..

You are absolutely right about the above.

[skins2357]

UK - theres a chart in most free weight rooms in gyms that backs this up. I dont know if his specific example is correct, because I dont have the chart in front of me but I can attest that it does sound right. For example I know off the top of my head that 135 lbs (a 45 on each side) benched 10 times is the equivalent of 175 lbs on this chart. What 225 18x is I dont know, but 340 lbs sounds accurate

[USAFSkinFan]

I didn't bring up the bench press because it has a direct correlation to his play on the field. I just brought it up because it's a red flag, and a measureable used to seperate players of perceived equal value. If you evaluate a few guys equally on film, one of the tools you use to seperate them are the measureables. Bench press is an important one for D-Linemen (I agree, I'd like to squats of dead lift, but there's too much risk of injury), and they know that going in. Jarvis finished next to last in 2 of the combine measureables. That's a red flag worth looking into according most every franchise. I would imagine the Redskins looked at it, and decided it wasn't a concern in his case.

I work with guys his size at number of bases around the country, and most of them warm-up with 20x225 or 12x275 on their second set before going heavy. I weigh 100 lbs less and warm-up with 15x225 and I just turned 50, so I was surprised to see his numbers for a top D-1 athelete. I'm a fan though, so I hope they're right...

[SkinsJock]

I like the red flag deal and I hope they remind him about it

this guy could be another of the many that shows that you can't measure the desire to be a good player in the NFL

coach him up boys and let him loose

the more I hear, the more I'm becoming a bit of a JJ fan

[1niksder]

The drafting of Jenkins is part of Shanny's master plan, he's already spoken to Kris Jenkins to play NT and now this


It looks like Jenkins could start at all three D-line spots

[Countertrey]

That would be wicked... all Jenkins, all the time...

[ATX_Skins]

225 lbs x 17 reps = 340 lbs (just for those wondering)

Well, you're going to have to explain that mathematical equation to me!

http://www.jcfb.com/forum/messageview.a ... adid=10951


High school goes off of the 125 lbs chart so you can see where you are at. I believe college goes off of this chart (225).

[die cowboys die]

in response to all this bench press talk:

if i were an NFL owner or GM, i would forbid any of my scouts from attending the Scouting Combine (except for the interview portion), or examining the numbers that came out of it. every year there are players whose draft stock flies up or down based on their numbers in events that seem to have shown little correlation to football success.

i would insist that all player assessments be based exclusively on game performance and personal interviews. if they didn't put it on the game tape, it may as well not exist as far as i'm concerned. and conversely, if the guy was a beast on the field but had less-than-impressive "measurables", i don't want to know about it.

on-field performance, work ethic, mental ability to grasp the game, lack of overwhelmingly consistent injury history, and lack of character defects which could create huge headaches; i don't think anything else really matters.

i could be overminimizing the combine performance stats, but it's definitely true that teams do often get too swayed by them compared to their years of game tape.

[KazooSkinsFan]

if i were an NFL owner or GM, i would forbid any of my scouts from attending the Scouting Combine (except for the interview portion), or examining the numbers that came out of it. every year there are players whose draft stock flies up or down based on their numbers in events that seem to have shown little correlation to football success

The problem with this is that while players may move up or down and "some" may be wrong, the question is what is the balance of those who move in the right direction versus the wrong direction? No system will be flawless, so just arguing it's flawed doesn't mean it should be ignored. Best would be to add this to their previous data and neither use this as Gospel nor ignore it.

[SkinsJock]

if i were an NFL owner or GM, i would forbid any of my scouts from attending the Scouting Combine (except for the interview portion), or examining the numbers that came out of it. every year there are players whose draft stock flies up or down based on their numbers in events that seem to have shown little correlation to football success

The problem with this is that while players may move up or down and "some" may be wrong, the question is what is the balance of those who move in the right direction versus the wrong direction? No system will be flawless, so just arguing it's flawed doesn't mean it should be ignored. Best would be to add this to their previous data and neither use this as Gospel nor ignore it.

and there you have it - the NFL draft

I think that so often these players are put in situations that don't suit them and while they ALL have the talent most of them do not succeed for 2 basic reasons:
- they are not ideally suited to do what the franchise that drafted them does on the practice and playing field - coaching can play a factor here too
- they don't make a huge effort to be an NFL player which is a big step up from the college game


a lot of these kids just want to be in the NFL and they don't understand the desire and effort it takes to be a good player

[fleetus]

I have not seen or read anything that leads me to think we have not improved as a franchise since these guys took over - until all the dust settles and we get back to making trades and operating with a new CBA in place I'm going to hope that these guys continue the re-building process

This franchise needs to continue to work on many areas of need and it's not happening as quickly as we all would like BUT it is happening - the draft is only a part of the NFL and this FO did fairly well with what they had - now we need to add the free agents and the trades we are going to make and get better idea of what we are likely to see this coming season

The O line did start to show some glimmers at the end of the season

The D does need to find a better mix to play the 3-4

I'm going to continue to hope that we are going to get a little better and maybe even be a playoff contender next season

I agree. But two things I really like to see are:

1) the addition of youth to this team
2) the increased competition created for many roster spots

I believe the way you develop a Super Bowl team is primarily through the draft. Free Agency is only to be used sparingly to fill holes the draft could not address. And even then, you try not to blow big money on the super high priced "stars".

The reasons why youth and depth (through the draft) help build a better team is that players are constantly having to work their butts off to keep that 3rd round rookie from taking their jobs. And during the course of the seaosn, when a starter is injured, you have a rookie or 2nd year player ready to step in.

We're not there yet. This was the first draft where the Skins treated the draft as the primary method of adding talent to the team. Job well done, IMO. If we have another draft like this the next two years, where we select 9-12 good players and let them all compete, we will surely turn this thing around.

[fleetus]

if i were an NFL owner or GM, i would forbid any of my scouts from attending the Scouting Combine (except for the interview portion), or examining the numbers that came out of it. every year there are players whose draft stock flies up or down based on their numbers in events that seem to have shown little correlation to football success

The problem with this is that while players may move up or down and "some" may be wrong, the question is what is the balance of those who move in the right direction versus the wrong direction? No system will be flawless, so just arguing it's flawed doesn't mean it should be ignored. Best would be to add this to their previous data and neither use this as Gospel nor ignore it.

and there you have it - the NFL draft

I think that so often these players are put in situations that don't suit them and while they ALL have the talent most of them do not succeed for 2 basic reasons:
- they are not ideally suited to do what the franchise that drafted them does on the practice and playing field - coaching can play a factor here too
- they don't make a huge effort to be an NFL player which is a big step up from the college game


a lot of these kids just want to be in the NFL and they don't understand the desire and effort it takes to be a good player

I agree with this too. Obviously it can be overcome with a good scouting orgtanization and coaching staff.

However, the uncertainty of the draft, of how 21 year olds will mature and handle the pressure is a major factor. How will they adapt in their 2nd or 3rd year when they have to learn a whole new system? (and the new coach isn't necessarily a fan since he was drafted by the previous coach) For this reason, I think drafting character guys in the middle rounds is important. If you can trade down and add extra middle round picks, even better. I'll take a lower 1st round pick + some extra 3rd and 4th rounders almost every time.

[yupchagee]

Im going to have disagree with everyone here. Shanny was obviously looking for High Motor guys that fit the defensive scheme, and I think he found them.

Kerrigan - I think will be a pretty darn good starter
Jenkins - Will start at RDE next season
Hankerson - Will start at WR next yr
Helu - Will compete with Torain to start
Neild - Was a steal, I think this guy is starting at NT for us by midway in the season
Thats 5 probable/possible starters. Anytime you can come out of a draft with 4 starters, its a good one. Thats not to mention the rother guys we drafted who could be solid backups or special teamers.

I think Jenkins is better suited to $-3 DT than 3-4 DE. From what I've read, he isn't quick enough for DE. I would have picked either Frsnklin or Ijalina in the 2nd. They are at least as talented & play a position of major need.

3 & 4th round picks look good. Gomes in the 5th is bewildering. He is a big reach & we are deep at S. I would have picked Tyrod Taylor. He offers so much versatility that he is unlikely to be a total bust, & we need help at QB. Even if we resign Rex, that leaves only 2 on roster.

Royster also puzzles me. We already picked Helu. With Torain & K Will, we look OK thers. I would have picked Jerrel Powe. We really need a true NT.

[skins2357]

Im going to have disagree with everyone here. Shanny was obviously looking for High Motor guys that fit the defensive scheme, and I think he found them.

Kerrigan - I think will be a pretty darn good starter
Jenkins - Will start at RDE next season
Hankerson - Will start at WR next yr
Helu - Will compete with Torain to start
Neild - Was a steal, I think this guy is starting at NT for us by midway in the season
Thats 5 probable/possible starters. Anytime you can come out of a draft with 4 starters, its a good one. Thats not to mention the rother guys we drafted who could be solid backups or special teamers.

I think Jenkins is better suited to $-3 DT than 3-4 DE. From what I've read, he isn't quick enough for DE. I would have picked either Frsnklin or Ijalina in the 2nd. They are at least as talented & play a position of major need.

3 & 4th round picks look good. Gomes in the 5th is bewildering. He is a big reach & we are deep at S. I would have picked Tyrod Taylor. He offers so much versatility that he is unlikely to be a total bust, & we need help at QB. Even if we resign Rex, that leaves only 2 on roster.

Royster also puzzles me. We already picked Helu. With Torain & K Will, we look OK thers. I would have picked Jerrel Powe. We really need a true NT.

I disagree with your assesment of Jenkins, from what I read he is a high motor guy with a quick 1st step. I think he actually fits in pretty well size wise, as a 3-4 DE. I do agree though that his nautral 4-3 DT position would be his ideal spot, but I dont think he will be out of position as a 3-4 DE (hopefully)

I agree that the Gomes pick was interesting, but they were probably looking for a ST guy, and we thought we were deep at S last yr, and look what happened. Truth be told, I dont expect Macho Harris or Chris Horton to make this team, and we did not have a guy who plays like LaRon (hitter who plays on the line) in case he gets hurt again. We have a bunch of FS who we try to play as a SS.

I disagree with Tyrod Taylor, and I dont think he is ever going to turn into anything. If Gomes plays ST well and offers solid depth then thats a MUCH better pick then a project QB who carries a clipboard all year.

The Royster pick Im not going to argue with you. I think he was BPA, and the skins were looking to add competiton. I mean Shanny cant miss on 2 late round backs can he!

As for the NT, I really like Neild out of WV. He is one of those under the radr players but I think he starts for us by midseason. Neild is supposed to be the high-motor team 1st guy that Shanny was targeting all draft long, Powe was known as lazy and an underacheiver from things I read.

Anyway, I like the direction the Skins are heading, and I hope they continue this transformation to be ready to compete in 2-3 years

[UK Skins Fan]

225 lbs x 17 reps = 340 lbs (just for those wondering)

Well, you're going to have to explain that mathematical equation to me!

http://www.jcfb.com/forum/messageview.a ... adid=10951


High school goes off of the 125 lbs chart so you can see where you are at. I believe college goes off of this chart (225).

Ah, I can see I have some reading to do....

[VetSkinsFan]

Doughty and Horton are both SS. Moore got hurt and we had Macho, a young guy, or one of the aforementioned SS playing FS until we plugged Barnes in.

[yupchagee]

There were 57 D-linemen that participated in the NFL combine. There was only one guy (who weighs 50 lbs. less than Jenkins) that did worse than him in the bench press. I'll be the first to admit that doesn't always mean a lot, but for a 310 pound guy that's supposed to hold the end in a 3-4 defense, 17 reps is horrific. There's no starting 3-4 defensive end in the NFL with that poor a bench press. For me, (and for several NFL teams) it's a red flag, and makes one wonder how hard he works. He's a solid ball player, but he's going to have to work harder at the next level than he has in the past... hopefully he comes in knowing that about himself.

For the record I should say that his standing in the bench press scared him enough that he went back and worked on it before his pro day and did much better (although at your pro day they aren't as strict about what counts as a rep), so that gave teams a bit more of a warm fuzzy...

Aldrick Robinson also did 17 reps.