2011 Offseason Offense Thread

[Skinsfan55]

I'm only including guys here who I would consider guaranteed to be on the roster...

QB1-
QB2- Rex Grossman
QB3- John Beck

RB1-
RB2- Ryan Torain
RB3- Keiland Williams
RB4-

TE1- Chris ey
TE2- Fred Davis


WR1-
WR2- Anthony Armstrong
WR3-
WR4-


LT- Trent Williams
LG-
C-
RG-
RT-

Pretty thin so far, it's easy to anticipate a total overhaul on the line, tons of new skill players, a new QB and a new feature back. I can't wait to start adding more guys as free agency continues. Over all the team is really weak, we'll see what happens when we actually add a starting QB and the team falls into place.

[northcarolinaredskin]

hopefully we can find a way to keep moss around and add a FA or two that wouold fir our needs, not big-name big-mooney recievers but productive recievers that can catch the ball. Even Julio Jones would be a great add but D comes first.

[VetSkinsFan]

I thought the line at the end of the year was coming together pretty well. With a replacement @ C, I think we could roll with what we got and slowly upgrade as opportunities present themselves.

As for WR, I really hope we resign Moss and pickup a #1 (either FA or draft of Jones will do IMO).

I think Torrain runs #1 and we pick up a late rounder to round out RB. Sellers eventually replacement on the roster? I'm not really sold on him. He seems to take plays off.

We seem to always run 3 TE and the 3rd we had last year (with the pony tail) is good for me.

QB, I say if we can't get Locker/Mallet, then we run with Rexy this year. Although I was content with the way the line was progressing, I don't want a top 10 pick to sit behind that line just yet.

[DarthMonk]

I'm only including guys here who I would consider guaranteed to be on the roster...

Some hopefuls in yellow:

QB1- Rex Grossman
QB2- Locker/Mallett
QB3- John Beck

RB1- Ryan Torain
RB2- Keiland Williams
RB3- any draft pick

TE1- Chris ey
TE2- Fred Davis


WR1- Julio Jones
WR2- Jacoby Jones
WR3- Santana Moss
WR4- Anthony Armstrong


LT- Trent Williams
LG- FA stud
C- Will Montgonery
RG- Stephon Heyer
RT- Jamal Brown

Like you said:

Pretty thin so far, it's easy to anticipate a total overhaul on the line, tons of new skill players, a new QB and a new feature back. I can't wait to start adding more guys as free agency continues. Over all the team is really weak, we'll see what happens when we actually add a starting QB and the team falls into place.

DarthMonk

[Irn-Bru]

Big Mike Williams could make a comeback on the line, although his window to be an NFL-quality player is surely almost closed by now. Losing all of last year, which would have been a great chance to get back into the rhythm, may have been the last straw.

[MDSKINSFAN]

I thought the line at the end of the year was coming together pretty well. With a replacement @ C, I think we could roll with what we got and slowly upgrade as opportunities present themselves.

I think a good center would make a huge and instantly noticeable difference. If we had an anchor at center, it would be a lot easier to build a line around him and Williams at LT.

[Hog Heaven]

Here's my take...

QB1- Rex Grossman
QB2- FA (cheap jouneyman)
QB3- John Beck

RB1- Draft pick (I like the VT backs in the 2nd rd)
RB2- Ryan Torain
RB3- Keiland Williams or some other cheap FA/late pick

FB1- Sellers (Or Lawrence Vickers/ Haufahi Tahi... with no back up on the 52 man roster)
FB2- Someone to eventually take over for him

TE1- Chris ey
TE2- Fred Davis
TE2- any strong blocking back, doesn't need to catch

WR1- Tall FA (Sydney Rice, James Jones, Mike Sims-Walker, Jacoby Jones, Malcom Floyd)... Don't draft, the skins' front office (new leadership, same scouts) never pick well on WRs
WR2- Anthony Armstrong
WR3- Santana Moss
WR4- cheap FA (Doucet, Stuckey) or late rd pick/undrafted FA
WR5- Banks

LT- Trent Williams
LG- Lichensteiger
C-Rabach/ Will Montgonery
RG- Mike Williams, Artis Hicks
RT- FA (Ryan Harris, Tyson Clabo, Jammal Brown) or high draft pick... NOT HEYER!

The line got progressively better last year, so no need to throw everyone out (like Rabach and Montgomery), but we do need a RT and some depth.

No need to waste a high draft pick on a suspect QB either. Even the best of rookie QBs would struggle with the roster the skins will have, so lets build that up 1st, unless the team really thinks there is a franchise guy that falls to them.

[skins2357]

QB1- Rex Grossman
QB2- Locker (2nd)
QB3- John Beck

RB1- Ryan Torain
RB2- Keiland Williams
RB3- James Davis

FB1- Sellers
FB2- Young

TE1- Chris ey
TE2- Fred Davis
TE2- Paulsen

WR1- Moss
WR2- Kevin Walter (FA)
WR3- Armstrong
WR4- Kelly
WR5- Banks

LT- Trent Williams
LG- Rodney Hudson (2nd)
C-Will Montgonery/Kory Lichensteiger
RG- Davin Joseph (FA)
RT- Ryan Harris (FA)

This is assuming we trade back and have 2 2nd rounders. My 2 2nd rounders are on offense (QB Locker and LG Hudson) and my late 1st rounder would be the BPA on defense (maybe OLB Houston, NT Taylor, DE Watt) My free agents were Kevin Walter (tall WR who knows KS system from Hou) Davin Joseph (young stud RG drafted by BA) and Ryan Harris (young RT who was drafted by MS and knows ZBS). The rest of my FA would be on defense. Thoughts?

[Red_One43]

QB1- Rex Grossman
QB2- Locker (2nd)
QB3- John Beck

RB1- Ryan Torain
RB2- Keiland Williams
RB3- James Davis

FB1- Sellers
FB2- Young

TE1- Chris ey
TE2- Fred Davis
TE2- Paulsen

WR1- Moss
WR2- Kevin Walter (FA)
WR3- Armstrong
WR4- Kelly
WR5- Banks

LT- Trent Williams
LG- Rodney Hudson (2nd)
C-Will Montgonery/Kory Lichensteiger
RG- Davin Joseph (FA)
RT- Ryan Harris (FA)

This is assuming we trade back and have 2 2nd rounders. My 2 2nd rounders are on offense (QB Locker and LG Hudson) and my late 1st rounder would be the BPA on defense (maybe OLB Houston, NT Taylor, DE Watt) My free agents were Kevin Walter (tall WR who knows KS system from Hou) Davin Joseph (young stud RG drafted by BA) and Ryan Harris (young RT who was drafted by MS and knows ZBS). The rest of my FA would be on defense. Thoughts?

I love the pick up of Locker in the 2nd, but I think our rookie will be the 3rd teamer.
I think that all of your FA pick ups are in line with ShanAllen for FA - no major big name splashes but solid work ethic players.
Montgomery would be hard pressed to keep Kory on the bench at center. That will be a good battle. Doubt that Raback can keep up with them.
Kelly will be hard pressed to make the team.

[Hog Heaven]

I like Walter as a good #2 or 3 WR with Armstrong taking the other spot, but Moss is no longer a #1. If we resign Moss, which I wouldn't mind, we still need a #1. That said, three #2/3 caliber WRs is a lot better than we entered last year with when nobody knew how Armstrong would turn out (btw, he improved a lot. He was very inconsistent early on.)

[skins2357]

I agree Moss is no longer a true #1 WR, maybe never was. But I dont see us acquiring one either unless they make a run after a guy like Sidney Rice. Personally I would try to sure up the O Line and Defense this offseason through the draft and YOUNG free agents. Once we have those spots set and gelling, then I would start to add skill positions.

Next year when the O Line has gelled (hopefully), you start Locker and add a big time WR either through the draft or FA. You also will have a better sense of how Torain is going to turn out by then.

Personally, I think this is a process that we cant fix over night or through 1 offseason. Sure I would love to have a #1 WR, but by signing Walter, it gives enough choices for Rex to go to. We just have too many holes to worry about a true #1 WR IMO. Lets sure up the O Line and defense this offseason, finish 8-8, and draft a #1 WR next year

[Hog Heaven]

I completely agree with you... with one difference. I think this year is our best shot to get a #1 WR. They rarely go to FA and when they do the price tag normally gets really high. This year there will be a couple of them on the market, so I think it will be easier to land one of them. I definitely don't trust us to draft one. Look at who we've drafted at WR in the last 20 years! Also, it normally takes a WR 3 years to adjust to the pro game.
I'd love to get the trenches on both sides of the ball set first, but I think if we wait to get a #1 WR, we simply will miss our chance to do so all together.

[skins2357]

Fair enough HH.... Its just a differ in opinions. Other then Rice, whose available on the market who would be a #1? I was thinking that we were going to have to use our 1st rounder if we wanted one (Julio Jones) and I want that 1st rounder to go to the defensive side of the ball

[CanesSkins26]

We just have too many holes to worry about a true #1 WR IMO.

I disagree with this. The bottom line is that this team overall lacks talent, as well as speed. We need help at pretty much every position on the field except for tight end and safety. We should be looking to add as much talent (especially young talent) as possible, no matter the position.

[skins2357]

i disagree. A WR has to many parts that directly affect it. What good is adding a WR when we have Rex Grossman and a crappy O Line? IMO you should add a WR when all the other parts are starting to come together.

In my opinion, we need to solidify the Defense and O Line, then next year after these 2 units have gelled (hopefully) we can start adding some skill positions like RB and WR.

I think of a team like the Jets, whom solidified their O Line and Defense. Then drafted a QB, and added WRs. You can argue that they arent a good franchise to model, but the last couple years they have been Super Bowl contenders. I think you need to build the team before adding the skill positions.

Thats like the Orioles going out and signing Roy Halladay when the rest of their pitching staff sucks. Build your staff until you are that 1 #1 pitcher away. Just my 2 cents

[skinsfan#33]

We just have too many holes to worry about a true #1 WR IMO.

I disagree with this. The bottom line is that this team overall lacks talent, as well as speed. We need help at pretty much every position on the field except for tight end and safety. We should be looking to add as much talent (especially young talent) as possible, no matter the position.

I agree with this statement 100% and that is exactly why we can't waste a first round pick on a WR. And no one should ever use a top ten on a WR.

Their just too far from the ball and really don't impact a game's outcome.

Larry Fittzgerald was a non factor last year. Was that because he was any less of a player than he was before, no it was because the CArds didn't have a QB.

WR aren't difference makers. There have been plenty of great teams without good WRs and plenty of awlful teams with great WRs.

If we draft a WR at #10 it would indicate DS still has his hands in the till.

Personally, I wouldn't ever draft a WR in the first round and I wouldn't even consider it if I had half the holes the Skins have.

[skins2357]

We just have too many holes to worry about a true #1 WR IMO.

I disagree with this. The bottom line is that this team overall lacks talent, as well as speed. We need help at pretty much every position on the field except for tight end and safety. We should be looking to add as much talent (especially young talent) as possible, no matter the position.

I agree with this statement 100% and that is exactly why we can't waste a first round pick on a WR. And no one should ever use a top ten on a WR.

Their just too far from the ball and really don't impact a game's outcome.

Larry Fittzgerald was a non factor last year. Was that because he was any less of a player than he was before, no it was because the CArds didn't have a QB.

WR aren't difference makers. There have been plenty of great teams without good WRs and plenty of awlful teams with great WRs.

If we draft a WR at #10 it would indicate DS still has his hands in the till.

Personally, I wouldn't ever draft a WR in the first round and I wouldn't even consider it if I had half the holes the Skins have.

I agree that WRs are not the difference makers everyone makes them out to be. There are alot of moving parts, and if everything does not go right then the WR will suffer. We need to get all of the moving parts right, before we add a WR.

Now that being said, if we get to the position where our O Line has gelled and we lack solid WRs, I have no problem taking them in the 1st round. BUT, I dont think thats something we should do until the rest of our team is set

[CanesSkins26]

WR aren't difference makers.

This is absolute nonsense. Tell Joe Montana that Jerry Rice wasn't a difference maker. The Cowboys in the 1990's aren't anywhere near the same team without Irvin. The Steelers don't win the Super Bowl in 2009 if Santonio Holmes doesn't make that play in the end zone. And the Cardinals don't make the 2009 Super Bowl without Fitzgerald. Go watch a Lions or Texans game and then tell me that Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson aren't difference makers.

[DarthMonk]

If the question is "Would you prefer a great O-line and some average-to-below-average WRs or would you prefer an average-to-below-average O-line with a great WR?" then the answer is clearly "Great O-line." But to say WRs are not difference makers is ludicrous. We have so many holes that the pick of Julio Jones with #10 is completely justified. If we already had Larry Fitzgerald and his twin brother on the team then I'd go with equal talent at a different position.

WR aren't difference makers.

This is absolute nonsense. Tell Joe Montana that Jerry Rice wasn't a difference maker. The Cowboys in the 1990's aren't anywhere near the same team without Irvin. The Steelers don't win the Super Bowl in 2009 if Santonio Holmes doesn't make that play in the end zone. And the Cardinals don't make the 2009 Super Bowl without Fitzgerald. Go watch a Lions or Texans game and then tell me that Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson aren't difference makers.

Amen.

DarthMonk

[Red_One43]

I am reading some good arguments concerning wide receivers. I like the argument about Larry Fitzgerald being a non factor this year; however, if you are rebuilding and a Larry Fitzgerald like rookie is within your reach, don't you get him now since that type of talent doesn't come along very often? You are not expected to win this year, so that rookie wide out gets to spend this medicore season developing.

Now, I haven't heard anyone compare Julio Jones, so I am not advocating taking Jones. Mayock says that Jones is a perfect fit for St. Louis. If St. Louis sees it like Mayock and Jones is around for #10, I am on the phone talking to St. Louis and saying here is the deal. By the old draft value chart. Their 1st (14th) and 3rd (14th pick) equal our 10th pick, but there might be others back there who are coveting Jones and so I might even get more from another team. If no one trades with me, I am taking Jones. He may not be a Larry Fitzgerald, but he has the potential to be a difference maker. Since, we aren't expected to win this year, there is no rush to get him on the field as a wide out and he gets to develop without the pressure to be the savior.

Bottomline for me, I am willing to pass on Jones for more draft picks; but if he were deemed a Larry Fitzgerald type, there is no way I would trade or pass on him, even with Grossman at QB, because talent like that does not come around that often. As far as the O line, you have to believe that Shanny has set that as priority #1 for FA.

At first glance of wideout for FA, I don't see anyone that I want to throw a lot of money at to get him. I like Santonio Holmes, but I am sure it will take more money than I am willing to spend. I am not sold on Sidney Rice coming off of an injury as one I would spend big bucks on. I could be content with a Walter at FA and the guys we have with maybe one surprise find beating out Kelly or Kelly staying healthy and stepping it up. A beefed up O-line will make things a lot easier on everyone while we look for that stud WR.

I am not sure where this places me in the WR, but that is my 2 cents worth.

[Red_One43]

This is what I am talking about below, minus the QB comment. It's hard to pass on Julio for any of the defensive front seven left on the board at #10. I am also assuming that we re-sign Santana Moss after he tests the market and we sign a vet FA, so Jones will not be pressed to start.

10. Redskins: Julio Jones, wide receiver, Alabama.

Owning no third- or fourth-round pick, the Redskins are prime candidates to trade out of the tenth spot with a team hungry for pass rushers. If coach Mike Shanahan stands pat, he must select an immediate starter at quarterback, wide receiver, or in the defensive front seven.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -take-two/

[skins2357]

Sorry, let me me clarify my argument that "WR are not difference makers"....

WRs ARE difference makers in the right situation, and are necessary. But there are too many moving parts that directly affect the WR position. The O Line, the QB, the other WRs. To compare my comment to Jerry Rice is rediculous, seeing that Jerry Rice had one the greatest QBs of all time and a great O Line. If we were set at these other positions, and were some skill positions away, then great, break the bank and get some. BUT WE ARE NOT. We have too many other holes that we can fill through the draft, to sure up these other aspects, before we start adding "difference making" WRs IMO.

Now looking at those "moving parts" and why any WR we get would not be a "difference maker".

1. Our QB is not good (rex)
2. Our O Line is not good (yet, as I think MS will fix this)
3. We lack other talent at WR

IMO, we need to draft the BPA After we move back in a defensive position of need (OLB, DE, NT) and use the 2nd round to draft a OG and a QB (hopefully by moving back into the late 1st of the draft we pick up another 2nd). We need to sure up our defense and O Line before we start adding WRs IMO.

Now if Mike drafts a WR at 10, Im not gonna be mad. I trust his judgement and this is just a personal opinion.

[SkinsJock]

We have so many needs that it really does not matter what position the player at #10 plays - I would hope that this player would help this franchise for many years

we are not even a few players away from having a good product on the field each week - we need to add a number of players on offense AND we need a number of players to add to the defense


because of the small amount of progress that was made in the past year, we still have a ways to go and need as many draft picks in the next 2 years as we can get - we also have to hope that we can add a number of free agents that will help as well

THIS PROCESS IS GOING TO TAKE TIME and hopefully we have some great talent scouts now



the # 10 pick this year is only 1 player and IF we cannot trade down, HOPEFULLY he is a big help to this franchise for many years at whatever position he plays

[skins2357]

well said

[skinsfan#33]

Hhh

WR aren't difference makers.

This is absolute nonsense. Tell Joe Montana that Jerry Rice wasn't a difference maker. The Cowboys in the 1990's aren't anywhere near the same team without Irvin. The Steelers don't win the Super Bowl in 2009 if Santonio Holmes doesn't make that play in the end zone. And the Cardinals don't make the 2009 Super Bowl without Fitzgerald. Go watch a Lions or Texans game and then tell me that Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson aren't difference makers.

This post proves my point.

We found out this year that the Cardinals aren't anything w/o Warner and they may or may not have been able to make it w/o Fitz, but it is certain they SUCK w/o Warner.

Calvin Johnson, really, he is your proof that WRs are difference makers? They went 0-16 with him and won 2 games in 2 years with that difference maker they have won 15 game in four years with him.

Wow we need one of those difference makers!

Actually Holmes didn't make the play in the endzone to win the SB. He missed the first one then didn't get his feet down on the second one, but the refs didn't see it that way. Ben throws two great throws and Holmes doesn't make either play (just lucked out the refs got the play wrong). P-burge won those SB with a running game and great defense.

Andre Johnson, the best WR in football over the past five years and how many playoff games have the Texans won? How many times have they made it to playoffs?

Montana won just as many SBs w/o Rice as he did w/him. Rice can't say the same thing!

The 90s Cowgirls won with a great running game, a HoF QB, and a very good defense. I think they would have faired just as well w/o the push off artist.

Yeah, sign me up for difference makers like that!