Vikings @ Redskins Game Thread....

[Wahoo McDaniels]

Gee, Mr Burns, can I have a six-pack? To make it clear:

- The OL is being rebuilt.

- Runners don't matter if you have an OL. They are the engine of the offense.

- There are only two receivers. The team needs another TE and two more WRs

- the entire defense is being evaluated as they learn the 3 - 4. Should they have changed from the 4 - 3? I don't care anymore. The decision is made. It happens that I believe the 4 - 3 is the True and Only Proper Defensive Alignment, a defense perfected by George Allen, Jack Pardee, and Richie Petibon. My opinion doesn't matter, so it will take a season to adjust.

This team should win about half the games. One special team guy more or less doesn't change anything.

How are they being rebuilt? Artis Hicks one of the "new hires" has been benched. Lichtensteiger, Brown and Rabach are terrible. Dockery has been inactive the entire season.

I reiterate. One decent linemen, the rest are garbage.

Good coaches look at their players and decide how they can put them in position to make them most effective and give them the best chance of winning. Bad coaches make players conform to a system that they are ill equipped.

When Parcells went down to Miami after they lost 16 (count'em 16) games, he took inventory of the personnel, got rid of 90% of 'em, and drastically changed gameplans to fit the personnel remaining (anybody heard of the Wildcat?). He turned them into a playoff team in 2 years.

Our coaches and new management come in, bring in old players with declining skill sets and force feed them into gameplans they can't execute (3-4, zone blocking scheme).


Where are the idiots at the beginning of the year who wrote "McNabb is worth 4 wins a year and Shanahan's worth another couple wins" (I'm paraphrasing of course). The reality is this is a 6-10 team.

[grampi]

I don't see the sky falling. This was not, and is not, a playoff team. It should be an 8 - 8 team, give or take a game.

OL: rebuilding

RB: depends on OL

QB: McNabb looks better than anyone since Rypien or maybe Brad Johnson with a fair wind.

TE: ey (and only...)

WR: Moss (who has been with he team a long time. Call it a "lost generation" of WR)

DL + LB: learning and sorting things out

DB: running on empty, but still running

Incidentally, I don't care about one or two draft positions. I want the Redskins to win the next game, and each "next game" after that.

This team has been "rebuilding" since 1992. How long does it take?

[Red_One43]

We just let a 41 year old guy run for a first down on us

Check out the highlights and watch Alexander as the 41 year old runs for the first down. You can't stop somebody of you run away from him (Doughty had the TE so there was no reason for Alexander to run away).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201011280 ... #tab:watch

[Deadskins]

We just let a 41 year old guy run for a first down on us

Check out the highlights and watch Alexander as the 41 year old runs for the first down. You can't stop somebody of you run away from him (Doughty had the TE so there was no reason for Alexander to run away).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201011280 ... #tab:watch

Yeah, he went back in coverage, when he should have attecked.

[DarthMonk]

so many things to address in the draft, its hard to decide were to begin.

BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE - PERIOD

DarthMonk

[die cowboys die]

just to beat a dead horse:

Riley has nothing to feel sorry for; the still picture of the play (up on washingtonpost.com right now) proves what was already pretty clear from the replays-- it was a perfectly legitimate block that should never have been penalized.

a block in the back is not automatically/inherently illegal. if it were, on every single play, every single defender that was about to be blocked could simply spin their body to the side really quickly, causing the blocker to contact them in the back and pick up a free 10 yard "penalty". but this doesn't happen precisely because contact in the back is not inherently illegal.

the defender must be oriented toward the ballcarrier; the picture clearly shows that he is actually turned sideways in regard to Banks-- a perfect example of what i stated above, drawing an erroneous penalty based solely upon him twisting his body sideways, away from the ballcarrier. if he had been oriented toward Banks, Riley's contact would in fact have been directly into the side of his body. it was a proper trajectory for Riley to take.

[DarthMonk]

I don't see the sky falling. This was not, and is not, a playoff team. It should be an 8 - 8 team, give or take a game.

OL: rebuilding

RB: depends on OL

QB: McNabb looks better than anyone since Rypien or maybe Brad Johnson with a fair wind.

TE: ey (and only...)

WR: Moss (who has been with he team a long time. Call it a "lost generation" of WR)

DL + LB: learning and sorting things out

DB: running on empty, but still running

Incidentally, I don't care about one or two draft positions. I want the Redskins to win the next game, and each "next game" after that.

This is the sort of blind homerism, I don't understand.

Here's the reality:

- There is not one playmaker on the entire team (outside of Banks who we got as an undrafted free agent).
- There is nobody on offense that the opposing defense has to scheme for

As for specifics...

OL - we need 4 quality O Linemen. The rest are garbage.
RB - we need a playmaker
TE - need a decent blocking TE. There's not one TE on this team that could block their way out of a wet paper bag
WR - once again need a playmaker.
QB - need to find a young QB to build around. McNabb looks like he's a 50 years old.

Defense
- Who's bad idea was the 3-4 any way? We don't have the personnel for it...
- Absolutely no depth.

As for the specifics:
DL - Not good enough to run the 3-4. They need to control the linemen and let LBs make plays. To date, they've failed miserably.
LB - Completely the wrong guys to play the 3-4.
SS - Finally, we put L.Landry in the right spot.
FS - Kareem is a good back-up, but we've got to find somebody quicker/faster.

-----

I reiterate, there is not one playmaker on offense on this entire team.

Weird post. The post you quote was pretty critical - not blind homerism at all????????????????

DarthMonk

[chiefhog44]

Gee, Mr Burns, can I have a six-pack? To make it clear:

- The OL is being rebuilt.

- Runners don't matter if you have an OL. They are the engine of the offense.

- There are only two receivers. The team needs another TE and two more WRs

- the entire defense is being evaluated as they learn the 3 - 4. Should they have changed from the 4 - 3? I don't care anymore. The decision is made. It happens that I believe the 4 - 3 is the True and Only Proper Defensive Alignment, a defense perfected by George Allen, Jack Pardee, and Richie Petibon. My opinion doesn't matter, so it will take a season to adjust.

This team should win about half the games. One special team guy more or less doesn't change anything.

How are they being rebuilt? Artis Hicks one of the "new hires" has been benched. Lichtensteiger, Brown and Rabach are terrible. Dockery has been inactive the entire season.

I reiterate. One decent linemen, the rest are garbage.

Good coaches look at their players and decide how they can put them in position to make them most effective and give them the best chance of winning. Bad coaches make players conform to a system that they are ill equipped.

When Parcells went down to Miami after they lost 16 (count'em 16) games, he took inventory of the personnel, got rid of 90% of 'em, and drastically changed gameplans to fit the personnel remaining (anybody heard of the Wildcat?). He turned them into a playoff team in 2 years.

Our coaches and new management come in, bring in old players with declining skill sets and force feed them into gameplans they can't execute (3-4, zone blocking scheme).


Where are the idiots at the beginning of the year who wrote "McNabb is worth 4 wins a year and Shanahan's worth another couple wins" (I'm paraphrasing of course). The reality is this is a 6-10 team.

Most of the players who were brought in are stop gaps that will be used as backups when starters are found. Hicks was a backup in Minnesota last year. Dude, pro bowl lineman are typically not available ever except in the draft, so we drafted one, and we'll probably address another next year. And by the way, Brown has been playing very well the last two games now that he is healthy. It took him longer than the coaches thought for him to recover.

Good coaches coach their systems and tweek it to gain the best advantage versus the opponent, but they don't rewrite their playbook just to fit the personel. Shannahan was brought in to coach this team because Allen knew the entire team needed to be blown up (as many including myself were clammering for). He is installing new systems on either side of the ball knowing that almost every player on the roster last year will not be here in 3 more years.

Parcells didn't coach the Dolphins. He was the team president. He realized that they had a good line and two very good backs, so he brought in a coach that had run wildcat in college. At the time, he didn't want to blow that team up. It was a talented team. And play that forward two more years and now look at them. That is a pathetic example. Plus under your logic, shouldn't you be waiting another year and a half to judge?

I've been saying this is a 7-8 / 8-8 team (maybe a bit worse because the schedule is brutal). That would be twice as good as last year. Even 6-10 is 50% better. I'll take that growth rate. We are mediocre, and anyone who has been saying otherwise is probably part of the crowd that has been hyping this team every year since the Superbowl. Then they get so upset when they don't live up to lofty expectations.

[chiefhog44]

so many things to address in the draft, its hard to decide were to begin.

BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE - PERIOD

DarthMonk

Thanks but no thanks Vinny

[Red_One43]

Gee, Mr Burns, can I have a six-pack? To make it clear:

- The OL is being rebuilt.

- Runners don't matter if you have an OL. They are the engine of the offense.

- There are only two receivers. The team needs another TE and two more WRs

- the entire defense is being evaluated as they learn the 3 - 4. Should they have changed from the 4 - 3? I don't care anymore. The decision is made. It happens that I believe the 4 - 3 is the True and Only Proper Defensive Alignment, a defense perfected by George Allen, Jack Pardee, and Richie Petibon. My opinion doesn't matter, so it will take a season to adjust.

This team should win about half the games. One special team guy more or less doesn't change anything.

How are they being rebuilt? Artis Hicks one of the "new hires" has been benched. Lichtensteiger, Brown and Rabach are terrible. Dockery has been inactive the entire season.

I reiterate. One decent linemen, the rest are garbage.

Good coaches look at their players and decide how they can put them in position to make them most effective and give them the best chance of winning. Bad coaches make players conform to a system that they are ill equipped.

When Parcells went down to Miami after they lost 16 (count'em 16) games, he took inventory of the personnel, got rid of 90% of 'em, and drastically changed gameplans to fit the personnel remaining (anybody heard of the Wildcat?). He turned them into a playoff team in 2 years.

Our coaches and new management come in, bring in old players with declining skill sets and force feed them into gameplans they can't execute (3-4, zone blocking scheme).


Where are the idiots at the beginning of the year who wrote "McNabb is worth 4 wins a year and Shanahan's worth another couple wins" (I'm paraphrasing of course). The reality is this is a 6-10 team.

Most of the players who were brought in are stop gaps that will be used as backups when starters are found. Hicks was a backup in Minnesota last year. Dude, pro bowl lineman are typically not available ever except in the draft, so we drafted one, and we'll probably address another next year. And by the way, Brown has been playing very well the last two games now that he is healthy. It took him longer than the coaches thought for him to recover.

Good coaches coach their systems and tweek it to gain the best advantage versus the opponent, but they don't rewrite their playbook just to fit the personel. Shannahan was brought in to coach this team because Allen knew the entire team needed to be blown up (as many including myself were clammering for). He is installing new systems on either side of the ball knowing that almost every player on the roster last year will not be here in 3 more years.

Parcells didn't coach the Dolphins. He was the team president. He realized that they had a good line and two very good backs, so he brought in a coach that had run wildcat in college. At the time, he didn't want to blow that team up. It was a talented team. And play that forward two more years and now look at them. That is a pathetic example. Plus under your logic, shouldn't you be waiting another year and a half to judge?

I've been saying this is a 7-8 / 8-8 team (maybe a bit worse because the schedule is brutal). That would be twice as good as last year. Even 6-10 is 50% better. I'll take that growth rate. We are mediocre, and anyone who has been saying otherwise is probably part of the crowd that has been hyping this team every year since the Superbowl. Then they get so upset when they don't live up to lofty expectations.

Well said chiefhog44!

[Wahoo McDaniels]

Gee, Mr Burns, can I have a six-pack? To make it clear:

- The OL is being rebuilt.

- Runners don't matter if you have an OL. They are the engine of the offense.

- There are only two receivers. The team needs another TE and two more WRs

- the entire defense is being evaluated as they learn the 3 - 4. Should they have changed from the 4 - 3? I don't care anymore. The decision is made. It happens that I believe the 4 - 3 is the True and Only Proper Defensive Alignment, a defense perfected by George Allen, Jack Pardee, and Richie Petibon. My opinion doesn't matter, so it will take a season to adjust.

This team should win about half the games. One special team guy more or less doesn't change anything.

How are they being rebuilt? Artis Hicks one of the "new hires" has been benched. Lichtensteiger, Brown and Rabach are terrible. Dockery has been inactive the entire season.

I reiterate. One decent linemen, the rest are garbage.

Good coaches look at their players and decide how they can put them in position to make them most effective and give them the best chance of winning. Bad coaches make players conform to a system that they are ill equipped.

When Parcells went down to Miami after they lost 16 (count'em 16) games, he took inventory of the personnel, got rid of 90% of 'em, and drastically changed gameplans to fit the personnel remaining (anybody heard of the Wildcat?). He turned them into a playoff team in 2 years.

Our coaches and new management come in, bring in old players with declining skill sets and force feed them into gameplans they can't execute (3-4, zone blocking scheme).


Where are the idiots at the beginning of the year who wrote "McNabb is worth 4 wins a year and Shanahan's worth another couple wins" (I'm paraphrasing of course). The reality is this is a 6-10 team.

Most of the players who were brought in are stop gaps that will be used as backups when starters are found. Hicks was a backup in Minnesota last year. Dude, pro bowl lineman are typically not available ever except in the draft, so we drafted one, and we'll probably address another next year. And by the way, Brown has been playing very well the last two games now that he is healthy. It took him longer than the coaches thought for him to recover.

Good coaches coach their systems and tweek it to gain the best advantage versus the opponent, but they don't rewrite their playbook just to fit the personel. Shannahan was brought in to coach this team because Allen knew the entire team needed to be blown up (as many including myself were clammering for). He is installing new systems on either side of the ball knowing that almost every player on the roster last year will not be here in 3 more years.

Parcells didn't coach the Dolphins. He was the team president. He realized that they had a good line and two very good backs, so he brought in a coach that had run wildcat in college. At the time, he didn't want to blow that team up. It was a talented team. And play that forward two more years and now look at them. That is a pathetic example. Plus under your logic, shouldn't you be waiting another year and a half to judge?

I've been saying this is a 7-8 / 8-8 team (maybe a bit worse because the schedule is brutal). That would be twice as good as last year. Even 6-10 is 50% better. I'll take that growth rate. We are mediocre, and anyone who has been saying otherwise is probably part of the crowd that has been hyping this team every year since the Superbowl. Then they get so upset when they don't live up to lofty expectations.

So if this team had no chance of being any good (your words), why did we give away 3 high draft picks on two aging players who won't be with the team when they are any good? If we are rebuilding, why are we the oldest team in the league and only two players from the draft made the team (one of which cost us the game today)?

Maybe I just don't understand how rebuilding works. But, it seems to me, you get younger, keep your picks (or get more picks) and jettison old players quickly.

[grampi]

I've been saying this is a 7-8 / 8-8 team (maybe a bit worse because the schedule is brutal). That would be twice as good as last year. Even 6-10 is 50% better. I'll take that growth rate. We are mediocre, and anyone who has been saying otherwise is probably part of the crowd that has been hyping this team every year since the Superbowl. Then they get so upset when they don't live up to lofty expectations.

This team has been poor to medoicre since 1992. For every season it takes a step foreward, there's 2 or 3 where it take two or three steps back. It's perpetually in the "rebuild" mode and it all centers around one common denominator; Dan Snyder.

[chiefhog44]

So if this team had no chance of being any good (your words), why did we give away 3 high draft picks on two aging players who won't be with the team when they are any good? If we are rebuilding, why are we the oldest team in the league and only two players from the draft made the team (one of which cost us the game today)?

Maybe I just don't understand how rebuilding works. But, it seems to me, you get younger, keep your picks (or get more picks) and jettison old players quickly.

3 high draft picks for two aging players, sorry who are you referring to? McNabb is one I know, but the 1st round pick we used on Williams. I can answer the McNabb question (again). Simply, we needed stability at that position, and someone to have a new QB to come in and learn under for a year or two before taking the reins. I think it's a great move as long as it's carried out this upcoming draft.

[Red_One43]

Gee, Mr Burns, can I have a six-pack? To make it clear:

- The OL is being rebuilt.

- Runners don't matter if you have an OL. They are the engine of the offense.

- There are only two receivers. The team needs another TE and two more WRs

- the entire defense is being evaluated as they learn the 3 - 4. Should they have changed from the 4 - 3? I don't care anymore. The decision is made. It happens that I believe the 4 - 3 is the True and Only Proper Defensive Alignment, a defense perfected by George Allen, Jack Pardee, and Richie Petibon. My opinion doesn't matter, so it will take a season to adjust.

This team should win about half the games. One special team guy more or less doesn't change anything.

How are they being rebuilt? Artis Hicks one of the "new hires" has been benched. Lichtensteiger, Brown and Rabach are terrible. Dockery has been inactive the entire season.

I reiterate. One decent linemen, the rest are garbage.

Good coaches look at their players and decide how they can put them in position to make them most effective and give them the best chance of winning. Bad coaches make players conform to a system that they are ill equipped.

When Parcells went down to Miami after they lost 16 (count'em 16) games, he took inventory of the personnel, got rid of 90% of 'em, and drastically changed gameplans to fit the personnel remaining (anybody heard of the Wildcat?). He turned them into a playoff team in 2 years.

Our coaches and new management come in, bring in old players with declining skill sets and force feed them into gameplans they can't execute (3-4, zone blocking scheme).


Where are the idiots at the beginning of the year who wrote "McNabb is worth 4 wins a year and Shanahan's worth another couple wins" (I'm paraphrasing of course). The reality is this is a 6-10 team.

Most of the players who were brought in are stop gaps that will be used as backups when starters are found. Hicks was a backup in Minnesota last year. Dude, pro bowl lineman are typically not available ever except in the draft, so we drafted one, and we'll probably address another next year. And by the way, Brown has been playing very well the last two games now that he is healthy. It took him longer than the coaches thought for him to recover.

Good coaches coach their systems and tweek it to gain the best advantage versus the opponent, but they don't rewrite their playbook just to fit the personel. Shannahan was brought in to coach this team because Allen knew the entire team needed to be blown up (as many including myself were clammering for). He is installing new systems on either side of the ball knowing that almost every player on the roster last year will not be here in 3 more years.

Parcells didn't coach the Dolphins. He was the team president. He realized that they had a good line and two very good backs, so he brought in a coach that had run wildcat in college. At the time, he didn't want to blow that team up. It was a talented team. And play that forward two more years and now look at them. That is a pathetic example. Plus under your logic, shouldn't you be waiting another year and a half to judge?

I've been saying this is a 7-8 / 8-8 team (maybe a bit worse because the schedule is brutal). That would be twice as good as last year. Even 6-10 is 50% better. I'll take that growth rate. We are mediocre, and anyone who has been saying otherwise is probably part of the crowd that has been hyping this team every year since the Superbowl. Then they get so upset when they don't live up to lofty expectations.

So if this team had no chance of being any good (your words), why did we give away 3 high draft picks on two aging players who won't be with the team when they are any good? If we are rebuilding, why are we the oldest team in the league and only two players from the draft made the team (one of which cost us the game today)?

Maybe I just don't understand how rebuilding works. But, it seems to me, you get younger, keep your picks (or get more picks) and jettison old players quickly.

Good point - Trading for the QB and the O lineman are signs that Shanahan wants to win now and is not rebuilding. Here are other Win Now moves - Maake as NT; Portis and Larry Johnson; Galloway (Don't ask me to explain - I am saying that this are not rebuilding moves). Also, Shanahan did not blow up the roster (again I am not saying whether he should have or shouldn't have - the fact that he didn't says that he thought that he could win now. Clearly Shanahan wants to win now by these moves. BUT here is where confusion sets in for many of us fans. Kory vs Dock and then Dock inactive especially against the BIG Viking line (Wwho is your win now guy Dock or Kory?). Golston continues to start over Albert and Daniels (Golston is pushed all over the field). Who is your win now guy Albert or Golston? (For those who don't know who Golston is you are forgiven). Mike vs Kyle Who gives us the better chance to win now for calling offenses Mike or his son? My Conclusion: On the one hand, Shanahan wants to win now on the other hand Shanahan wants to win now BUT he also wants to make a point and that is - if you don't play AND PRACTICE with the hunger to get better you will not play much this year and will not be on this team next year even if it costs us games this year, but I (Mike) won't admit that my decisions are costing us games.

[Red_One43]

So if this team had no chance of being any good (your words), why did we give away 3 high draft picks on two aging players who won't be with the team when they are any good? If we are rebuilding, why are we the oldest team in the league and only two players from the draft made the team (one of which cost us the game today)?

Maybe I just don't understand how rebuilding works. But, it seems to me, you get younger, keep your picks (or get more picks) and jettison old players quickly.

3 high draft picks for two aging players, sorry who are you referring to? McNabb is one I know, but the 1st round pick we used on Williams. I can answer the McNabb question (again). Simply, we needed stability at that position, and someone to have a new QB to come in and learn under for a year or two before taking the reins. I think it's a great move as long as it's carried out this upcoming draft.

I believe he refers to Jammal Brown aged 29. Who we will give up at least a 4th and maybe a 3rd depending on the McNabb conditions.

[chiefhog44]

So if this team had no chance of being any good (your words), why did we give away 3 high draft picks on two aging players who won't be with the team when they are any good? If we are rebuilding, why are we the oldest team in the league and only two players from the draft made the team (one of which cost us the game today)?

Maybe I just don't understand how rebuilding works. But, it seems to me, you get younger, keep your picks (or get more picks) and jettison old players quickly.

3 high draft picks for two aging players, sorry who are you referring to? McNabb is one I know, but the 1st round pick we used on Williams. I can answer the McNabb question (again). Simply, we needed stability at that position, and someone to have a new QB to come in and learn under for a year or two before taking the reins. I think it's a great move as long as it's carried out this upcoming draft.

I believe he refers to Jammal Brown aged 29. Who we will give up at least a 4th and maybe a 3rd depending on the McNabb conditions.

3rd or a 4th for a starting OT age 29??? The guy is playing at a very high level right now. Sorry, Heyer would have sent any QB to the hospital. That was not a plan.

[chiefhog44]

Good point - Trading for the QB and the O lineman are signs that Shanahan wants to win now and is not rebuilding. Here are other Win Now moves - Maake as NT; Portis and Larry Johnson; Galloway (Don't ask me to explain - I am saying that this are not rebuilding moves). Also, Shanahan did not blow up the roster (again I am not saying whether he should have or shouldn't have - the fact that he didn't says that he thought that he could win now. Clearly Shanahan wants to win now by these moves. BUT here is where confusion sets in for many of us fans. Kory vs Dock and then Dock inactive especially against the BIG Viking line (Wwho is your win now guy Dock or Kory?). Golston continues to start over Albert and Daniels (Golston is pushed all over the field). Who is your win now guy Albert or Golston? (For those who don't know who Golston is you are forgiven). Mike vs Kyle Who gives us the better chance to win now for calling offenses Mike or his son? My Conclusion: On the one hand, Shanahan wants to win now on the other hand Shanahan wants to win now BUT he also wants to make a point and that is - if you don't play AND PRACTICE with the hunger to get better you will not play much this year and will not be on this team next year even if it costs us games this year, but I (Mike) won't admit that my decisions are costing us games.

If something is collapsing, ANYTHING (house, building, bridge, levy, company, team etc.) you need stability at key points. This is called support. If a levy is breaking, you put sandbags in place to make sure there is no more colateral damage. Those sandbags are not part of the long term plan, but they will enable you to go out and get supplies and material to rebuild the wall.

They went out and picked up players for the positions that were collapsing. QB, RT, LT and RG. I think they call these cornerstones in building speak...maybe keystones. The entire front line was crumbling last year, and really still is up the middle, but the RT and LT positions are pretty solid IMO. The QB is pretty solid IMO. For the most part though, these are sandbags. They will service us for 3-5 years until the entire foundation is laid and then they will need to be replaced as well. And what a better time than now to lay a new foundation. Why not sacrifice for a couple years while this is rebuilt correctly? Man I am all for that. Not just to have one random season that we make the playoffs by chance, but a nice 10-15 year run.

FYI Dock is injured and is a back-up at best, Haynesworth probably won't be on the team next year and refuses to play anything but a 4 man front so if our base defense is a 3-4, how do you expect that he would start? That doesn't even make sense. The rest of your comment is very troublesome.

I like Shannahan's attitude. What's not to like about instilling a good work ethic, and who says his decisions are costing us games? Did you really think we were going to win the Superbowl with this team? What's a couple extra loses this year to make sure the team has good practice and playing habits long term? To make sure that we have 53 men that have a team first mentality? I like that myself. If you don't, I think you would be the first. Trouble is, that many on here can't see the big picture. They expect to win now. I would love to as well, but those are unrealistic expectations.

[Red_One43]

Good point - Trading for the QB and the O lineman are signs that Shanahan wants to win now and is not rebuilding. Here are other Win Now moves - Maake as NT; Portis and Larry Johnson; Galloway (Don't ask me to explain - I am saying that this are not rebuilding moves). Also, Shanahan did not blow up the roster (again I am not saying whether he should have or shouldn't have - the fact that he didn't says that he thought that he could win now. Clearly Shanahan wants to win now by these moves. BUT here is where confusion sets in for many of us fans. Kory vs Dock and then Dock inactive especially against the BIG Viking line (Wwho is your win now guy Dock or Kory?). Golston continues to start over Albert and Daniels (Golston is pushed all over the field). Who is your win now guy Albert or Golston? (For those who don't know who Golston is you are forgiven). Mike vs Kyle Who gives us the better chance to win now for calling offenses Mike or his son? My Conclusion: On the one hand, Shanahan wants to win now on the other hand Shanahan wants to win now BUT he also wants to make a point and that is - if you don't play AND PRACTICE with the hunger to get better you will not play much this year and will not be on this team next year even if it costs us games this year, but I (Mike) won't admit that my decisions are costing us games.

If something is collapsing, ANYTHING (house, building, bridge, levy, company, team etc.) you need stability at key points. This is called support. If a levy is breaking, you put sandbags in place to make sure there is no more colateral damage. Those sandbags are not part of the long term plan, but they will enable you to go out and get supplies and material to rebuild the wall.

They went out and picked up players for the positions that were collapsing. QB, RT, LT and RG. I think they call these cornerstones in building speak...maybe keystones. The entire front line was crumbling last year, and really still is up the middle, but the RT and LT positions are pretty solid IMO. The QB is pretty solid IMO. For the most part though, these are sandbags. They will service us for 3-5 years until the entire foundation is laid and then they will need to be replaced as well. And what a better time than now to lay a new foundation. Why not sacrifice for a couple years while this is rebuilt correctly? Man I am all for that. Not just to have one random season that we make the playoffs by chance, but a nice 10-15 year run.

FYI Dock is injured and is a back-up at best, Haynesworth probably won't be on the team next year and refuses to play anything but a 4 man front so if our base defense is a 3-4, how do you expect that he would start? That doesn't even make sense. The rest of your comment is very troublesome.

I like Shannahan's attitude. What's not to like about instilling a good work ethic, and who says his decisions are costing us games? Did you really think we were going to win the Superbowl with this team? What's a couple extra loses this year to make sure the team has good practice and playing habits long term? To make sure that we have 53 men that have a team first mentality? I like that myself. If you don't, I think you would be the first. Trouble is, that many on here can't see the big picture. They expect to win now. I would love to as well, but those are unrealistic expectations.

In the long run Shanahan's way will pay off. Yes, it is good to instill a good work ethic on a team. Yes, it is good to lay a solid foundation to win more games in the long run. I think that a lot of things you say are right on if you are a long range thinker which is how I am thinking: but just because I am thinking in the long run doesn't mean I am blind to the reality of the short run.

You can say what you want about Hayneworth and I do agree that he should not be on this team next year because of his me first attitude. He is better than Golston. He would not get pushed around like Golston. Sure Shanahan has to stick with Golston because he is instilling a work ethic, but yes, he may be costing us games because of the weak link at DE. Golston is not the only weak link. You cannot tell me that Kory is better against the Vikings DE than Dock - I agree with you that Dock is a back up at best because he doesn't play to his potential every play, but Kory wasn't even in the league last year. He is a back up as well. BTW -Dock wasn't on the injury report. You didn't even address Galloway - why was he in there instead of Austin? We could have been developing Austin all this time. No one can prove that Shanahan is costing us games, but when you don't play your best players, it is possible that a game or two could have been won that were lost. The decision to go to the 3-4 is a good long run decision. It is debatable whether or not he should of waited if one is not a long run thinker. Has this decision to change now, cost us games, it is possible?

What is my straight up position on the 2010 Redskins - No I did not expect Super Bowl. I was an 8-8 or 9-7 person at the begining of the season and more a 7-9 or 8-8 now. With the personnel we have, we are not a contending team now. I believe that Shanahan is setting us up for the long run. I support his decisions even though I do not agree with them -Kory over Dock and Golston over Haynesworth, 3-4 over the 4-3. It is painful to lose now, but I agree with you, a more solid foundation is being built for more wins in the future. A team work ethic is being established. When the Skins beat good teams like the Packers, Bears, Eagles, Titans (usetabe) and beat the usetabe good team, the Cowboys, I was elated, so I will not let losses take away from how I felt with those wins. We are an average team this year who has been competitive in every game but one which speaks volumes for the future of this team.
With all that being said Chiefhog44, I may not agree with you on everything, but I do see your points and your analogies are well said.

[DarthMonk]

so many things to address in the draft, its hard to decide were to begin.

BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE - PERIOD

DarthMonk

Thanks but no thanks Vinny

A reply which is a non-argument.

You are either implying the concept is wrong or that Vinnie picked the best player available whenever it was his turn.

The concept is right. Whenever he actually picked the best player it was a good pick. He often overlooked a much better player than he picked.

I'll stand by the concept.

DarthMonk

[Countertrey]

Rigidly adhering to any draft philosophy is stupid.

Suppose your philosophy is "Best availible player"... If best availible grades out at 2 selections better than the best player at a position of severe need, what do you do? Ignore your need?

Suppose you are intent on picking only players of need... If the best player at a position of need grades out 1 round below the round in which you are picking what do you do? Trade? Partners don't grow on trees, you know.

You must have the flexibility to do either, depending on the situation.

[Wahoo McDaniels]

Rigidly adhering to any draft philosophy is stupid.

Suppose your philosophy is "Best availible player"... If best availible grades out at 2 selections better than the best player at a position of severe need, what do you do? Ignore your need?

Suppose you are intent on picking only players of need... If the best player at a position of need grades out 1 round below the round in which you are picking what do you do? Trade? Partners don't grow on trees, you know.

You must have the flexibility to do either, depending on the situation.

Regardless of what your draft strategy is....you need to find contributors to your team....something the Skins have failed to do. But even more importantly, we have failed to find legtimate threats in the draft. This is the reason you keep your picks and not grasp for aging veterans. Even the best drafting teams strike out often. But one draft can completely change your team and we, year after year, trade our picks away. It doesn't make any sense. Compound this with the fact that we are incapable of finding talent outside of our 1st pick.

In the last 4 drafts, the Skins have found 4 productive players:

2010 1 4 Trent Williams T Oklahoma
2010 4 103 Perry Riley LB LSU
2010 6 174 Dennis Morris RB Louisiana Tech
2010 7 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
2010 7 229 Eric Cook C New Mexico
2010 7 231 Selvish Capers T West Virginia
2009 3 0 Jeremy Jarmon DE Kentucky
2009 1 13 Brian Orakpo LB Texas
2009 3 80 Kevin Barnes DB Maryland
2009 5 158 Cody Glenn LB Nebraska
2009 6 186 Robert Henson LB TCU
2009 7 221 Eddie Williams RB Idaho
2009 7 243 Marko Mitchell WR Nevada-Reno
2008 2 34 Devin Thomas WR Michigan State
2008 2 48 Fred Davis TE USC
2008 2 51 Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
2008 3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa
2008 4 124 Justin Tryon DB Arizona State
2008 6 168 Durant Brooks P Georgia Tech
2008 6 180 Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State
2008 6 186 Colt Brennan QB Hawaii
2008 7 242 Rob Jackson DE Kansas State
2008 7 249 Chris Horton DB UCLA
2007 1 6 LaRon Landry DB LSU
2007 5 143 Dallas Sartz LB USC
2007 6 179 H.B. Blades LB Pittsburgh
2007 6 205 Jordan Palmer QB Texas-El Paso
2007 7 216 Tyler Ecker TE Michigan

[langleyparkjoe]

lol.. jordan palmer, hilarious

[1niksder]

In the last 4 drafts, the Skins have found 4 productive players:

Being a productive player and being a starter isn't the same, you used the last four years, which covers 3 different coaching staffs. In the end only 11 guys from your list aren't on the team today.

These guys are still Redskins

2010 1 4 Trent Williams T Oklahoma
2010 4 103 Perry Riley LB LSU
2010 7 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
2010 7 229 Eric Cook C New Mexico
2010 7 231 Selvish Capers T West Virginia
2009 3 0 Jeremy Jarmon DE Kentucky
2009 1 13 Brian Orakpo LB Texas
2009 3 80 Kevin Barnes DB Maryland
2009 6 186 Robert Henson LB TCU
2008 2 48 Fred Davis TE USC
2008 2 51 Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
2008 6 180 Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State
2008 7 242 Rob Jackson DE Kansas State
2008 7 249 Chris Horton DB UCLA
2007 1 6 LaRon Landry DB LSU
2007 6 179 H.B. Blades LB Pittsburgh

Only 5 on this list hasn't filled a roll on the team this year but are either on the PS or IR. There's are five starters in this group and one more that would be a starter if ey was on another team, and four solid backups.

Go back another year and you would have three more productive players on the list, Kedric Golston, Reed Doughty, and Rocky McIntosh all current starters.

That's not bad for a team that is accused of never having any draft picks.
A team with no picks need to find undrafted rookies to fill the roster and add youth over the last four years these undrafted rookies are still with the team

Keiland Williams
Nick Sundberg
Logan Paulsen
Brandon Banks
Anderson Russell
Darrel Young
Anthony Armstrong
Stephon Heyer
Chris Wilson
Byron Westbrook

There are 3 starters in that group and a few productive backups.


Also coming out of those drafts and currently on the Redskins roster are:

Adam Carriker selected by the St. Louis Rams / 1st / 13th pick / 2007
Macho Harris selected by the Philadelphia Eagles / 5th /157 pick / 2009
Clint Oldenburg selected by the New York Jets /5th /171st pick /2007
Andre Brown selected by the New York Giants /4th / ??? pick /2009
John Beck selected by Miami Dolphins / 2nd /40th pick /2007
Ryan Torain selected by Denver Broncos / 5th / 139th pick / 2008
Kory Lichtensteiger selected by Denver Broncos / 4th / 108th pick / 2008
James Davis by Cleveland Browns /6th /195th pick / 2009

They swapped picks to get Carriker and Beck was part of a player swap

[Countertrey]

Rigidly adhering to any draft philosophy is stupid.

Suppose your philosophy is "Best availible player"... If best availible grades out at 2 selections better than the best player at a position of severe need, what do you do? Ignore your need?

Suppose you are intent on picking only players of need... If the best player at a position of need grades out 1 round below the round in which you are picking what do you do? Trade? Partners don't grow on trees, you know.

You must have the flexibility to do either, depending on the situation.

Regardless of what your draft strategy is....you need to find contributors to your team....something the Skins have failed to do. But even more importantly, we have failed to find legtimate threats in the draft. This is the reason you keep your picks and not grasp for aging veterans. Even the best drafting teams strike out often. But one draft can completely change your team and we, year after year, trade our picks away. It doesn't make any sense. Compound this with the fact that we are incapable of finding talent outside of our 1st pick.

In the last 4 drafts, the Skins have found 4 productive players:

2010 1 4 Trent Williams T Oklahoma
2010 4 103 Perry Riley LB LSU
2010 6 174 Dennis Morris RB Louisiana Tech
2010 7 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
2010 7 229 Eric Cook C New Mexico
2010 7 231 Selvish Capers T West Virginia
2009 3 0 Jeremy Jarmon DE Kentucky
2009 1 13 Brian Orakpo LB Texas
2009 3 80 Kevin Barnes DB Maryland
2009 5 158 Cody Glenn LB Nebraska
2009 6 186 Robert Henson LB TCU
2009 7 221 Eddie Williams RB Idaho
2009 7 243 Marko Mitchell WR Nevada-Reno
2008 2 34 Devin Thomas WR Michigan State
2008 2 48 Fred Davis TE USC
2008 2 51 Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
2008 3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa
2008 4 124 Justin Tryon DB Arizona State
2008 6 168 Durant Brooks P Georgia Tech
2008 6 180 Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State
2008 6 186 Colt Brennan QB Hawaii
2008 7 242 Rob Jackson DE Kansas State
2008 7 249 Chris Horton DB UCLA
2007 1 6 LaRon Landry DB LSU
2007 5 143 Dallas Sartz LB USC
2007 6 179 H.B. Blades LB Pittsburgh
2007 6 205 Jordan Palmer QB Texas-El Paso
2007 7 216 Tyler Ecker TE Michigan

I'm sure there's a point in there relative to my post... but I sure can't figure out what it is...

[DarthMonk]

Rigidly adhering to any draft philosophy is stupid.

Suppose your philosophy is "Best availible player"... If best availible grades out at 2 selections better than the best player at a position of severe need, what do you do? Ignore your need?

Yes. Either that or you trade down.

Suppose you are intent on picking only players of need...

Generally a bad idea but trade down. Grab the best player but if you have greats already at that position and don't want another trade down. Don't waste the pick on an inferior player just because you "need" that position.

I've said it once and I'll say it again:

Here's the best example I ever heard - from the book America's Game - Page 337:

The 1979 draft found the Dallas Cowboys preparing for the beginning of a new era, with Roger Staubach nearing the end of his career. His understudy Danny White, who'd come over after the demise of the WFL, was the heir apparent, and the young Glenn Carano, an unpolished but physically gifted thrower form the University of Nevada-Las Vegas was seen as a potential diamond in the rough. In the 3rd round, as the Cowboys' selection came up, Tom Landry looked at the Cowboys' master list, and did something he had rarely done in his 19 years of drafting. Instead of taking the top player on the Cowboys' chart, he went "against the board" and selected not the highest-rated player but the next-highest-ranked one, a rangy tight end named Doug Cosbie, who would go on to enjoy a productive career and provide further evidence that the Cowboys were able to find a diamond in the rough.

On the next selection, the 82nd, San Francisco chose the very player who had been on the top of the Cowboys' board, the player Dallas had passed on because, in Landry's words, "We don't really need another quarterback."

His name was Joe Montana.

Thank God they blew that one!

I'll go so far as to say ALWAYS TAKE TALENT OVER NEED IN THE DRAFT. AMASS ALL THE YOUNG TALENT YOU CAN. YOUR SO-CALLED NEEDS CAN BE FILLED BY GUYS WHO WANT TO COME PLAY WITH YOUR TALENT.

This is especially true for the 'Skins since we have SO MANY HOLES TO FILL.

DarthMonk (call me Vinny if you want - good philosophy horribly implemented by him)