Coach is merely covering for poor coaching by his son.

[HEROHAMO]

For the record. I have no problem with the descision the Shanahans made to bench Mcnabb in the last two minutes of that game. I dont think it was the right descision but I believe they pulled Mcnabb for Grossman because they believed Grossman may spark the offense in that situation. Nothing wrong with that in my mind. A coach has the right to do that.


Most any time a coach benches a player for another is because they believe the other player may give the team a better chance to win. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

However the wishy washy explanations caused the media and us fans to question everything about the decision to bench Mcnabb. I mean conditioning, not knowing the offense? Seriously?

Most of us would not be questioning the motivation behind the benching but the multiple explanations the Shanahans gave caused much confusion. Heck none of us truly know why it happened.

[chiefhog44]

You may have faith that things will turn around, but face it, both father and son have made some major mistakes. The idea that you're going to install a pass first, pass deep offense with a line that can't hold is crazy, and they haven't adjusted after 8 games? The Lions made that adjustment against us after one half. Whether McNabb deserves a little or a lot of blame, the coaching staff definitely deserves a lot. Coaching is putting the players YOU HAVE, in the best position to succeed. When you sometimes don't play your best players, you better make sure that your system works with the players you CHOOSE to put on the field. By that measure, Kyle and Mike's offense have been terrible.

How about the 4 wins you say? Well I think that has been mainly due to the D. I'm pleasantly surprised with Haslett. After the Houston game, he has changed, he has played AH, he has put in some 4-3 packages, he has become less aggressive and predictable with his blitzes. You can argue that Mike S had something to do with, but my guess is not since similar things haven't happened on the other side of the ball.

Many including yourself are not realizing that this is going to be a 3-4 year rebuilding project. The system will take that long to get the correct players in here. I don't want them to change their system to fit our players. Our players suck. We hired high quality coaches to install a system that has been proven to work, and that's what I am buying into. And by running their system and not changing, they are getting a good idea of what players work and which do not.

I asked for it in the offeseason, and now that we got the entire thing blown up to start over, I am sitting back and watching. We simply do not have the players in here yet, and despite people saying that picking up Donovan shows them that we have a win now mentality, I disagree. It will take him a year to learn the offense, AND I think we pick up a QB in the QB laden draft this year to learn under him for a year. McNabb has to learn to look long first in this system, and it would not do any long term good not to teach him that NOW while we are rebuilding. Why would I want him to look short first just to fit our players (line sucks etc.) only to have to re-learn it next year or the following. Not to mention, he will have to teach this offense to someone next year.

With that said, I have deadlines as well. I'm not just following them forever with blind faith. My deadline is not 8 weeks as is some though. If they do not show me that this is the path that they are on, I am off board. I'm happy they didn't pick up TO, or Moss, or any of these other older free agents and piss away draft picks. It shows me that I am correct in my thinking and the plan is still on track. We brought in a veteran QB to be our leader through this transition and he will hopefully re-sign. If he doesn't, I'll be pissed. Not because I think he's the next coming, but because he will serve as a great transition to the next QB.

I am realistic in how long this is going to take, and I'm not going to get caught up in a coaching decision mid year to let me loose faith.

[KazooSkinsFan]

If McNabb goes out and plays well and we win, it will probably begin to fizzle. But, if he stinks it up and we lose, then we will likely hear more permutations of this story both locally and nationally.

A reasonable prediction

fact is - I don't think it bothers the players or the coaches as much as some here and in the media think OR would like

...

the benching was a mistake and the words were stupid and misguided BUT that's all it was

Agreed. I was agreeing with Hogster more that future developments will determine how big a story it is going forward rather then the specific prediction. But we agree it's overblown. The main thing is Kyle and McNabb talking about how to go forward. I seriously doubt either is obsessing on that game. Kyle thought he had a brainstorm, but it was a brain fart. Frankly if he repeats it I'll start considering it a bigger story, but if he doesn't it's a non event. Actually sometimes these screw ups end up being positives because it gets people talking about the reasons.

[dlc]

For the record. I have no problem with the descision the Shanahans made to bench Mcnabb in the last two minutes of that game. I dont think it was the right descision but I believe they pulled Mcnabb for Grossman because they believed Grossman may spark the offense in that situation. Nothing wrong with that in my mind. A coach has the right to do that.


Most any time a coach benches a player for another is because they believe the other player may give the team a better chance to win. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

However the wishy washy explanations caused the media and us fans to question everything about the decision to bench Mcnabb. I mean conditioning, not knowing the offense? Seriously?

Most of us would not be questioning the motivation behind the benching but the multiple explanations the Shanahans gave caused much confusion. Heck none of us truly know why it happened.

There is a difference between having the right and being right.

The truth is that many people would think that putting in Rex wouldn't lead to something worse not something better, and that vast majority of people were right and the coaches were wrong.

One thing that I think is being downplayed is how the players see this, both at the time it happened and the long-term. Is it far-fetched to think that such a surprising, inexplicable move could have thrown off the O line where the distraction caused the missed pick up? That does demonstrate that they aren't the most well-adjusted bunch, but we already knew that.
And the argument that this will light a fire for all the players and they will play harder. In my opinion, and I'm sure at least some players share it, the coaches are going to put the blame on me even if it is their fault.

The press conferences enrage the media and the fans, but I think many players have stated that what happens behind closed doors is viewed very differently. But you definitely don't see any players defending the Shanahans, which is what concerns me most of all. And even if they did, I don't trust the facade that this team puts in front of the media anyhow.

[dlc]

Correction, Kyle ran an offense that was #1 in pass, #30 in run, 4th in yards, and 10th in points per game. And this year, Houston is pretty much the same without him ... EXCEPT they're now 6th in rushing instead of 30th.

With Kyle they were #1 in passing offense. Without him, they are now 11th. Also, Schaub's numbers across the board are down, including qb rating, completion %, yards per attempts, yards per game, and td-int ratio. Last year Schaub had 29 td's and 15 int's. This year it's 10 and 7, respectively.

So yes, their running game has improved from 92.2 ypg last year to 136.5 this year, but it's not accurate to say that the every part of their offense is the same as last year only with an improved running game. Interestingly, with their running game producing more yards, their time of possession is actually down by about 3 minutes from last year to this year.

I think either argument, for or against Kyle, isn't there. The offense was installed with Kubiak and under Sherman. Kyle came and continued what was already established, while still having Kubiak to lean on. With the way GB offense runs, I would strongly argue that Sherman was the one that got that Houston offense established and running successfully.

So my view is that Kyle is unproven since he's yet to install his own offense. Yes, it does show potential that you can continue success with someone else's offense, but he hasn't earned any respect in my book. From what I've seen, he still has a little learning to do. When you ride coat-tails to get where you are, you should expect criticism whether or not you deserve it. From what we've seen of this offense, I think he deserves it.

[dlc]

Although I don't agree with all Ray is saying, I think his points are right

...

It seems only Skins fans who CHOOSE to still believe in the Shanahans, seem to offload the blame solely on McNabb (perhaps like what this thread suggests Mike does) so that you don't have to face up to what might be the real issue

I appreciate your comments, well chosen and voiced even if I don't agree with all your opinions. But on the second point, I think Kyle made a mistake, McNabb was irked, it's pretty much a non issue now except for the media and the fans who chose to keep it one. It's not that big a deal as long as the mistake doesn't happen again. That option isn't covered in your choices.

I don't think that's realistic option. If you got demoted in front of all your co-workers and someone else took your spot; that person gets overwhelmed, and they put you back in charge, would you just let it go with your boss? It will effect their relationship, and McNabb is going to be on guard, perhaps looking for another home as soon as the opportunity presents itself. I highly doubt with the QB play around the league, others won't be interested.

A similar option that I didn't mention was that the Shanahans apologized and admitted their mistake behind closed doors. They have worked it out, and it is an issue they will try to move past, but it hasn't completely gone away. This wasn't your ordinary situation that can be swept under the rug.

But as always, winning solves almost all problems. So I am hoping it goes away.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I don't think that's realistic option. If you got demoted in front of all your co-workers and someone else took your spot; that person gets overwhelmed, and they put you back in charge, would you just let it go with your boss?

That's such a horrible analogy I see no point in answering it. He wasn't demoted and there is no option in the NFL to do anything but in front of everyone, it's the nature of the game. In your analogy it's completely not.

t will effect their relationship, and McNabb is going to be on guard, perhaps looking for another home as soon as the opportunity presents itself

If this is true then he should retire and walk away now because he's far to baby to ever play in the NFL. After a decade in Philly and 5 NFC championship games we actually know he's not that sort of baby so again...irrelevant. He played with TO and even at least publicly asked the Skins to look at him. That he's sulking is just not supported by any evidence or his history. The fact is that talented people like working with talented people. Well, at least the successful ones do.

A similar option that I didn't mention was that the Shanahans apologized and admitted their mistake behind closed doors. They have worked it out, and it is an issue they will try to move past, but it hasn't completely gone away. This wasn't your ordinary situation that can be swept under the rug.

But as always, winning solves almost all problems. So I am hoping it goes away.

Blowing what happened so far beyond any reasonable proportion is irrelevant hyperbole, not insight. As for the behind closed doors, I'm sure they've discussed in detail what the Shannahan's want from McNabb. You don't know that hasn't happened by your own use of the term "closed doors." Which is the correct way to handle it until the hysterical media and some fans get a grip and move on.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I would strongly argue that Sherman was the one that got that Houston offense established and running successfully.

So my view is that Kyle is unproven since he's yet to install his own offense

If empirical data doesn't sway you, nothing will. No fool can take anyone's offense and make it #1. It may not prove he's a prodigy, but yes, it does prove he's got ability. And he's a kid running the show. Give him a break, at least once. Geez

[dlc]

I don't think that's realistic option. If you got demoted in front of all your co-workers and someone else took your spot; that person gets overwhelmed, and they put you back in charge, would you just let it go with your boss?

That's such a horrible analogy I see no point in answering it. He wasn't demoted and there is no option in the NFL to do anything but in front of everyone, it's the nature of the game. In your analogy it's completely not.

t will effect their relationship, and McNabb is going to be on guard, perhaps looking for another home as soon as the opportunity presents itself

If this is true then he should retire and walk away now because he's far to baby to ever play in the NFL. After a decade in Philly and 5 NFC championship games we actually know he's not that sort of baby so again...irrelevant. He played with TO and even at least publicly asked the Skins to look at him. That he's sulking is just not supported by any evidence or his history. The fact is that talented people like working with talented people. Well, at least the successful ones do.

A similar option that I didn't mention was that the Shanahans apologized and admitted their mistake behind closed doors. They have worked it out, and it is an issue they will try to move past, but it hasn't completely gone away. This wasn't your ordinary situation that can be swept under the rug.

But as always, winning solves almost all problems. So I am hoping it goes away.

Blowing what happened so far beyond any reasonable proportion is irrelevant hyperbole, not insight. As for the behind closed doors, I'm sure they've discussed in detail what the Shannahan's want from McNabb. You don't know that hasn't happened by your own use of the term "closed doors." Which is the correct way to handle it until the hysterical media and some fans get a grip and move on.

How is that a horrible analogy? People are people. In this case it's even worse because the egos are even larger. Sitting on the bench compared to playing wasn't a demotion? Fans on this board get heated about this, and you think McNabb, Mike and Kyle are unemotional about it, the game is the game. That's BS.

Blowing it out of proportion? It would be one thing if there was a debate about this, but outside of this board, it was a big deal, and a big insult. Players and coaches have personalities and opinions, and saying that this goof won't effect them, or the other players and coaches is delusional.

Saying that this is ONLY over-hyped media is a cop out.

[dlc]

I would strongly argue that Sherman was the one that got that Houston offense established and running successfully.

So my view is that Kyle is unproven since he's yet to install his own offense

If empirical data doesn't sway you, nothing will. No fool can take anyone's offense and make it #1. It may not prove he's a prodigy, but yes, it does prove he's got ability. And he's a kid running the show. Give him a break, at least once. Geez

If empirical data doesn't sway you, nothing will

You're acting like you performed a mathematical proof. If you want to be consistent, if Kyle is responsible for that "empirical data" for Houston, why isn't he responsible for the data applicable to this year's offensive scoring?

As you did with your "empirical data", I've derived a hypothesis on who is responsible for the success of that Houston offense. This is no different from your derivation that McNabb is more of the reason for our offensive woes than is Kyle because Kyle was successful at Houston. I countered that by theorizing that Sherman was probably more of the reason because both places he's been has built very good offenses.

As for bashing Kyle, I guess you just overlooked this:

Yes, it does show potential that you can continue success with someone else's offense, but he hasn't earned any respect in my book.

I'm a fan of the Redskins, not of Kyle Shanahan. It's a common thing in sports to criticize coaches and players of a team that you like. I hope he does well, but he hasn't so far. I'm sure we can't even agree on that.

[KazooSkinsFan]

How is that a horrible analogy?

Actually, I already answered this. You asked about my boss demoting me in public. McNabb wasn't demoted, he's still the starter. And as I already pointed out the games are public by definition, they are entertainment, you buy tickets to watch it. Comparing what happens in a public entertainment to a private business doesn't make sense. They are there to watch McNabb play the game, how can he be benched in private? It doesn't even make sense. And no one comes to watch me work, they come to buy what I produce. They are not comparable.

Saying that this is ONLY over-hyped media is a cop out.

I said it's over-hyped media, I didn't use the word, "only." You added it and bolded it. I actually didn't use it. It's a story, the over-hype is the media.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I'm a fan of the Redskins, not of Kyle Shanahan. It's a common thing in sports to criticize coaches and players of a team that you like. I hope he does well, but he hasn't so far. I'm sure we can't even agree on that.

It's not in the Redskins interest to run a 30 something kid out of town for one mistake. As for Houston, I said I agree with you his success having taken it over is mitigated by that he didn't create the offense. But I'm pointing out he did run it, so it's not nothing either. I see a lot of feathers flying, but I'm not sure what you're objecting to in that.

As for agreeing he hasn't done so well it depends on how you mean it. If you mean he hasn't accomplished anything yet, I agree. If you mean he's done poorly so far I don't. The way you phrased it can be read either way so I'm not sure which one you meant and my answer depends on that.

[dlc]

I'm a fan of the Redskins, not of Kyle Shanahan. It's a common thing in sports to criticize coaches and players of a team that you like. I hope he does well, but he hasn't so far. I'm sure we can't even agree on that.

It's not in the Redskins interest to run a 30 something kid out of town for one mistake. As for Houston, I said I agree with you his success having taken it over is mitigated by that he didn't create the offense. But I'm pointing out he did run it, so it's not nothing either. I see a lot of feathers flying, but I'm not sure what you're objecting to in that.

As for agreeing he hasn't done so well it depends on how you mean it. If you mean he hasn't accomplished anything yet, I agree. If you mean he's done poorly so far I don't. The way you phrased it can be read either way so I'm not sure which one you meant and my answer depends on that.

I meant both. The Redskins' offense this season has been awful, and he's the offensive coordinator. Perhaps with the personnel, it's not possible for him to run a great offense, but maybe this is where I'm more of an optimist; the game can be called in a different way where we could be more successful and score more points.

Stating that the benching of McNabb was the one mistake that he made, implies that I shouldn't expect much of a change in decisions and philosophy, because Kyle hasn't been making mistakes in play calling, it's simply player execution that's the problem. I differ on that. Coaching is putting the players in the best place to succeed given their talents, which includes preparation, leadership, and play calling. Defenses don't look off-balance with us. How often this year have we had the right play call (screen, slant, draw, etc.) to combat a blitz where we made them pay? You have problems protecting your QB off the blitz, you make adjustments. Play calling shouldn't be religion.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I meant both. The Redskins' offense this season has been awful, and he's the offensive coordinator

So when he inherited a great offense, you're saying no credit, he didn't create it. But when he inherited a horrible offense, you're saying, "he's the offensive coordinator." See any inconsistency there?

Stating that the benching of McNabb was the one mistake that he made, implies that I shouldn't expect much of a change in decisions and philosophy, because Kyle hasn't been making mistakes in play calling, it's simply player execution that's the problem. I differ on that.

I didn't say any of that and it doesn't imply that

Coaching is putting the players in the best place to succeed given their talents, which includes preparation, leadership, and play calling. Defenses don't look off-balance with us. How often this year have we had the right play call (screen, slant, draw, etc.) to combat a blitz where we made them pay? You have problems protecting your QB off the blitz, you make adjustments. Play calling shouldn't be religion.

Again, we have a horrible offense. I don't disagree with you on any of this, but I think expecting Kyle to take the horrible mess he got and fix it with preparation, leadership and play calling this quickly from what he started with is just flat out un-realistic. Again I agree he hasn't proven he can do it, but he hasn't proven he can't either. Our O is actually better then last year. So far that just means they suck less. But the McNabb mistake doesn't prove he can't either.

[dlc]

So when he inherited a great offense, you're saying no credit, he didn't create it. But when he inherited a horrible offense, you're saying, "he's the offensive coordinator." See any inconsistency there?

No inconsistency here. I just reiterates my OPINION that there's a big difference between building a good offense and continuing an already built offense. This is a completely different offense from last year. It his, not Zorn's.

I didn't say any of that and it doesn't imply that

Agreed, you didn't say that. But you did say:

It's not in the Redskins interest to run a 30 something kid out of town for one mistake

I'm criticizing him for his entire body of work, 7 of 8 poor showings on offense. You're implication that it's one mistake I'm dwelling on is wrong, and it implies that there aren't plenty of other instances in those 7 games that should make me severely doubt his ability. I think he's a smart guy, but there's a big difference between continuing to run an offense that someone else has sold to the players than it is to convince the players that it will work. Reputation goes only so far. The players have to see it work. If this continues, fair or not, they'll start doubting just like many fans here do.

Again, we have a horrible offense. I don't disagree with you on any of this, but I think expecting Kyle to take the horrible mess he got and fix it with preparation, leadership and play calling this quickly from what he started with is just flat out un-realistic. Again I agree he hasn't proven he can do it, but he hasn't proven he can't either. Our O is actually better then last year. So far that just means they suck less. But the McNabb mistake doesn't prove he can't either.

I'm not sure if the offense is better. The defense and return game has given the offense a much shorter field this year and on multiple times scores. With different personnel, Trent Williams and Jamaal Brown , which prior to this season we all thought was an upgrade, the protection and the run blocking have been just as bad as last year. You add all of this that we thought that Zorn, Smith , Lewis play calling triad was a joke last year, so even having a small improvement in my opinion is failure.

With that said, to be clear, I'm saying that Kyle has performed badly so far, and I hope its not an indication of how well he'll perform moving forward. For some reason you're defending him thus far. Just like players, coaches can struggle in the beginning, turn it around and still be a good coach. To say that McNabb played well so far is just as bad as saying Kyle has coached well. Although I feel that Kyle is more to blame and a coach is more accountable, neither is going to improve without the other.

The reason why I dislike Kyle more than McNabb is because the sideline expressions and the McNabb benching decision seem to indicate that he's points the blame outward and has no problems hiding that fact. It would be different if Kyle tried changing his playcalling and strategy prior to blaming McNabb. But he hasn't. Dressing only two RBs last game points to me that they don't want to run. Keeping Dock inactive tells me that they don't think that his talent eval is wrong despite the awful blocking. The consistency of the 7-step drops shows that he's a little deluded about what is happening on the field. I could be wrong, but I think the decisions and his behavior are telling. Kyle thinks McNabb's inability to get his offense and his playcalls is why they are failing, not that the offense and the playcalling needs adjustment.

[welch]

I say nothing for the record and don't know who I would agree or disagree with.

I do know that there is another game tomorrow night, and I care more about the result of that game than what happened two weeks ago.

[KazooSkinsFan]

So when he inherited a great offense, you're saying no credit, he didn't create it. But when he inherited a horrible offense, you're saying, "he's the offensive coordinator." See any inconsistency there?

No inconsistency here. I just reiterates my OPINION that there's a big difference between building a good offense and continuing an already built offense. This is a completely different offense from last year. It his, not Zorn's.

I didn't say any of that and it doesn't imply that

Agreed, you didn't say that. But you did say:

It's not in the Redskins interest to run a 30 something kid out of town for one mistake

I'm criticizing him for his entire body of work, 7 of 8 poor showings on offense

Actually you didn't address the inconsistency, in fact you repeated it. You're saying:

- He does not get credit for the good offense he got in Houston, it wasn't "his."

- He does get the blame for the bad offense he got from Zorn. He's the "offensive coordinator."

That is inconsistent. He didn't create either offense. And in fact it is easier to take apart a good offense in one year then it is to make the dreadful one we had good in one year. Repeating that you don't give him credit in Houston and you do blame him for ours isn't addressing the inconsistency, it's repeating it.

[Deadskins]

He does get the blame for the bad offense he got from Zorn. He's the "offensive coordinator."

That is inconsistent. He didn't create either offense. And in fact it is easier to take apart a good offense in one year then it is to make the dreadful one we had good in one year. Repeating that you don't give him credit in Houston and you do blame him for ours isn't addressing the inconsistency, it's repeating it.

How is this Zorn's offense in your eyes? A few of the players (Rabach, Portis, Moss, ey, Sellers, Davis) are the same, but the scheme is totally different. I don't see how you're not getting that this IS Kyle's offense. Now, whether you blame Kyle or the players for their lack of execution, or think it's a mixture of both, is reasonable, but saying this is Zorn's offense is not.

[KazooSkinsFan]

He does get the blame for the bad offense he got from Zorn. He's the "offensive coordinator."

That is inconsistent. He didn't create either offense. And in fact it is easier to take apart a good offense in one year then it is to make the dreadful one we had good in one year. Repeating that you don't give him credit in Houston and you do blame him for ours isn't addressing the inconsistency, it's repeating it.

How is this Zorn's offense in your eyes? A few of the players (Rabach, Portis, Moss, ey, Sellers, Davis) are the same, but the scheme is totally different. I don't see how you're not getting that this IS Kyle's offense. Now, whether you blame Kyle or the players for their lack of execution, or think it's a mixture of both, is reasonable, but saying this is Zorn's offense is not.

In Houston he got the players and a scheme. However, he actually ran it for the year to be #1. It may not show the ability to construct a #1 O, but it does show the ability to run one. But you seriously think starting from where he did with personnel this is "his" team? Please. We used our #1 pick on OT, but that was effectively just a replacement for Samuels sans the experience. McNabb's an upgrade, but that was our #2 pick. So from there you're looking at FA's and low round picks. We seem to have some potential on OL, WR and RB, but it's Zorn's O whether he can run his own schemes or not.

[Deadskins]

He does get the blame for the bad offense he got from Zorn. He's the "offensive coordinator."

That is inconsistent. He didn't create either offense. And in fact it is easier to take apart a good offense in one year then it is to make the dreadful one we had good in one year. Repeating that you don't give him credit in Houston and you do blame him for ours isn't addressing the inconsistency, it's repeating it.

How is this Zorn's offense in your eyes? A few of the players (Rabach, Portis, Moss, ey, Sellers, Davis) are the same, but the scheme is totally different. I don't see how you're not getting that this IS Kyle's offense. Now, whether you blame Kyle or the players for their lack of execution, or think it's a mixture of both, is reasonable, but saying this is Zorn's offense is not.

In Houston he got the players and a scheme. However, he actually ran it for the year to be #1. It may not show the ability to construct a #1 O, but it does show the ability to run one. But you seriously think starting from where he did with personnel this is "his" team? Please. We used our #1 pick on OT, but that was effectively just a replacement for Samuels sans the experience. McNabb's an upgrade, but that was our #2 pick. So from there you're looking at FA's and low round picks. We seem to have some potential on OL, WR and RB, but it's Zorn's O whether he can run his own schemes or not.

You're arguing points I didn't make. I didn't mention Kyle's time in Houston at all. What I'm arguing is your contention that he is running Zorn's offense. He's running the same scheme he did with the Texans, with a few holdover players from last year. I said you can lay this season's offensive woes on the players, the scheme (coaching), or a combination of both, but in no way is this Zorn's offense. Obviously Kyle couldn't bring in players to fill every hole (although an argument could be made that they might have done more in FA), in just one off-season. So this is probably a 2-3 year project, but that's not the argument you made and I quoted.

[KazooSkinsFan]

You're arguing points I didn't make. I didn't mention Kyle's time in Houston at all. What I'm arguing is your contention that he is running Zorn's offense

Actually, that wasn't my contention. Hence the confusion.

I was arguing dlc's contention that Kyle didn't deserve credit in Houston for one year of the #1 O, but he deserves blame for our O sucking over 8 games this year. I said it's Zorn's O, I wasn't even referring to the schemes. I was referring to the O that Zorn built. There is no way with the personnel Kyle started with we'd have a good O this year regardless of the scheme that he ran.

[chiefhog44]

One thing of note I heard today. That Kyle stated that he was upset that Mike didn't just come right out and say that they benched him because of poor play. Mike admitted that he botched the handling of that and the two of them (Mike and donovan) were in constant contact throughout the bye week. He didn't think it was going to made such a big deal about, as Belechek has been doing the same for years. Doesn't feel obligated to tell anyone the truth. Bruce Allen went to Arizona to smooth things over, and by Monday last week, it was water under the bridge.

[Paralis]

In Houston he got the players and a scheme. However, he actually ran it for the year to be #1. It may not show the ability to construct a #1 O, but it does show the ability to run one. But you seriously think starting from where he did with personnel this is "his" team? Please. We used our #1 pick on OT, but that was effectively just a replacement for Samuels sans the experience. McNabb's an upgrade, but that was our #2 pick. So from there you're looking at FA's and low round picks. We seem to have some potential on OL, WR and RB, but it's Zorn's O whether he can run his own schemes or not.

Wait, what?

The biggest contributor on offense that was added during the Zorn years is Fred Davis. And that's pretty much it.

Moss, Portis, ey, Rabach, Sellers and Heyer are all Gibbs signings. Armstrong, Torain, both Williamses, McNabb, Liechtensteiger, Hicks, Brown and Joey Galloway are Shanny's.

7 of 11 starters on offense tonight were signed this year. The problem isn't that Shanahan hasn't had a chance to get his players--it's that he's gotten the wrong ones.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Wait, what?

The biggest contributor on offense that was added during the Zorn years is Fred Davis. And that's pretty much it.

Moss, Portis, ey, Rabach, Sellers and Heyer are all Gibbs signings. Armstrong, Torain, both Williamses, McNabb, Liechtensteiger, Hicks, Brown and Joey Galloway are Shanny's.

7 of 11 starters on offense tonight were signed this year. The problem isn't that Shanahan hasn't had a chance to get his players--it's that he's gotten the wrong ones.

I'm not sure what your point is with the Gibbs part, Kyle got them from Zorn. I didn't say where Zorn got them and don't see the relevance to the discussion.

As I pointed out though, we used the #1 pick on Samuel's replacement and the #2 on McNabb. That left low round draft picks and free agents. How exactly was he supposed to sign an entire offense from that? Please elaborate.

[Deadskins]

Wait, what?

The biggest contributor on offense that was added during the Zorn years is Fred Davis. And that's pretty much it.

Moss, Portis, ey, Rabach, Sellers and Heyer are all Gibbs signings. Armstrong, Torain, both Williamses, McNabb, Liechtensteiger, Hicks, Brown and Joey Galloway are Shanny's.

7 of 11 starters on offense tonight were signed this year. The problem isn't that Shanahan hasn't had a chance to get his players--it's that he's gotten the wrong ones.

I'm not sure what your point is with the Gibbs part, Kyle got them from Zorn. I didn't say where Zorn got them and don't see the relevance to the discussion.

As I pointed out though, we used the #1 pick on Samuel's replacement and the #2 on McNabb. That left low round draft picks and free agents. How exactly was he supposed to sign an entire offense from that? Please elaborate.

The point isn't that he was supposed to do it in one year, it's that 7 of 11 were his signings. You can hardly say it was a previous coach's team.