Coach is merely covering for poor coaching by his son.

Talk about the Washington Football Team here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
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Post by chiefhog44 »

VetSkinsFan wrote:My interpretation of anything related to being pulled from a game based on cardio is not in "football shape" and I think that's Ray's angle as well as myself and others.


Vet, before he starts going down another rabbit hole, he originally stated the following...

RayNAustin wrote: Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.


The coaches never said any of that and I want to know why Ray continues to exagerate. Getting "out of shape" from being pulled due to cardio issues is the closest and will conceed that if you want, but to get lazy and not very smart from ANYWHERE but thin air, is a blatent attempt to fullfill some sort of agenda and I think Ray has to defend that notion because I'm calling him out on it.

VetSkinsFan wrote:And I would believe that the terminology would be the same in the offense. How it's used (calling multiple plays, ect) would probably differ, but I don't believe they have two sets of terminologies for different facets of the offense.


They don't use two different terminologies, they use the same terminology, but the QB has to know the offense well enough to know what play will work in a situation ON HIS OWN, not through a headpiece. It is EXTERMELY difficult and for someone who has only played in the system for eight games, it's probably pretty tough. Again, not to say that the excuse was justified, just explaining.
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Post by Kilmer72 »

RayNAustin wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:My interpretation of anything related to being pulled from a game based on cardio is not in "football shape" and I think that's Ray's angle as well as myself and others

Sure, it's technically accurate, but the objection I have is that it's being used in a way to imply that it's similar to the AH situation which is a world of difference. AH started in bad shape and is only getting in "football shape" now. It's been an ongoing discussion. McNabb was injured and didn't practice all out. Yes, calling it not in "football shape" is technically accurate, but I'd never that term used that way until McNabb now and given the ongoing completely different AH use of the phrase I flat out don't buy it's not being used for an agenda to tie them.


Who says he started out in bad shape? The same guy who thinks Grossman gave the Redskins the better chance to win last Sunday? THAT'S THE POINT HERE.

Haynesworth came in 30 LB's lighter than he was in 2009, not typical of a fat slob out of shape. Shanahan got his arse on his back because Haynesworth wasn't there for the "voluntaries" ... meaning they really were not voluntary. So he was going to punish Albert for his insolence. And that conditioning test was not some "no brainer" as Shanahan claimed to the media "anybody can do it in there sleep" ... further insulting Haynesworth ... all of the guys ... ex-football players on the networks explained how difficult that test was for a big man to pass, and they all saw it for what it was ... punishing him for not bowing to the Boss.

Good coaches remove themselves from contractual issues, and focus on football, which is why great coaches who become those quasi GMs always fail. And Haynesworth's issues were contractual in nature ... the Redskins promised him he'd play in a 4-3, then they switch to the 3-4, and simply told Haynesworth, TOUGH ... DEAL WITH IT. So he did. Apparently, the arrogance of the coaching staff prevented them from feeling the need to assuage Haynesworth's fears about how he would fit into the 3-4, ... meaning, EXPLAIN to him the advantages of the new defense ... and entice him onboard with the changes. No, they decided to DICTATE to him ... you got your paycheck, now you do as you are told!

That's old school for sure ... but "used to" doesn't live here anymore. Today, you have to temper that hard line with some common sense ... such as not going out of your way to alienate players ... especially the star players on a team not exactly loaded with them.

Shanahan personalized the issues with Haynesworth, and retaliated once he joined camp. And I think it has negatively impacted the team by impacting Haynesworth's progress in the system ... all because Shanahan needs to constantly prove who has the bigger ______

All teams need discipline, but it needs to be instilled in a reasonable and fair manner .... you don't do this by holding grudges and never missing an opportunity to poke someone in the eye who you feel has challenged your authority. It's beginning to look as though this Mike Shanahan character has a Napoleon complex that is detrimental to the team, IMHO, and he needs to be reined in. Save for John Elway, the man would be a 500 coach who never held a Super Bowl Trophy.

My personal opinion is that Mike and Kyle are somewhat embarrassed by the status of the offense at this stage, though their MASSIVE EGOS won't allow for the finger of blame to be pointed in their direction.

Look at the whole picture .... nobody has been able to run consistently behind this line ... so Parker and Johnson were cut ... meaning they were to blame. Portis is injured ... Torain injured, and we're down to one back. They can't pass protect either .... but it's the QB to blame.

I've never seen a head coach publicly disrespect his own players the way Shanahan has .... from the Haynesworth fiasco, to this McNabb debacle. He says McNabb didn't have a firm enough grasp of terminology to run the 2 minute offense .... then he claimed it was a cardio issue ... then he answered a question by saying Dockery wasn't good enough to start, while praising the play of a guy being OWNED on the line.

Anyone missing this is just not paying attention. Either Shanahan isn't smart enough to understand how damaging his statements and actions are, or he's just too arrogant to concern himself. I think it's the latter.

To him ... IT HAS TO BE THE CAR losing the race ... because it can't be the driver (him).



Ray that is the biggest goof up of them all.. Imagine if they were running a 43 with the attitude for getting the ball back like they do now :) Crazy isn't it? AH would have been there, he was last year even though it didn't work out as far as him being at his best. That is what the real deal is. You hit the nail on the head with that. I am not a JH fan but I have to give him some credit. He is using certain personnel....

Then all we have to do is work on offense but now we have to deal with both sides of the ball.
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Post by 34andcounting »

Play calling is the problem. Just one example, the sweep play where torain has ran 20 or more time it has lost yard on over half of the time. so as a play calling I would'nt use that play as much as i seen it.
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Post by Kilmer72 »

34andcounting wrote:Play calling is the problem. Just one example, the sweep play where torain has ran 20 or more time it has lost yard on over half of the time. so as a play calling I would'nt use that play as much as i seen it.


Sometimes you have to call the plays that do not work to just keep the defense honest. Another words they have to look out for it.
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Post by RayNAustin »

chiefhog44 wrote:Vet, before he starts going down another rabbit hole, he originally stated the following...

RayNAustin wrote: Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.


The coaches never said any of that and I want to know why Ray continues to exagerate. Getting "out of shape" from being pulled due to cardio issues is the closest and will conceed that if you want, but to get lazy and not very smart from ANYWHERE but thin air, is a blatent attempt to fullfill some sort of agenda and I think Ray has to defend that notion because I'm calling him out on it.


I'm your huckleberry. Just because you can't read between the lines doesn't mean the rest of the world suffers such a problem.

The consensus among the ex-NFL-Head Coaches who have chimed in on the matter believe it was a severe indictment of McNabb's grasp of the offense for Shanahan to say he wasn't familiar enough with the terminology to run the 2 minute drill. They also say that after the OTAs, minicamp, pre-season, and half of the regular season, for him not to know the "terminology" well enough to run the 2 minute offense is hard to imagine. Consequently, it was either a lie, or Shanahan was indirectly questioning McNabb's intelligence publicly, given that he's an 11 year veteran QB, and should know the offense well enough to run the 2 minute offense at this point.

For your future reference ... if someone tells you ... "you ought to know better" ... that's just a more polite way of saying you're not very bright.

Then, he changes the tune by saying that it was really a cardio issue ... an endurance matter because he wasn't able to go full speed during the week because of injuries. NOW LISTEN UP .... nobody loses their cardiovascular condition by not being able to practice at full speed for 3 or 4 days ... if anything, it's a regular option exercised by teams to lighten the practice load on injured players to allow them to recuperate enough to be effective on game day. So if McNabb actually was not fit enough from a cardiovascular standpoint on Sunday, it occurred long before Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of that same week. DUH !

Again ... the fallout from that was the issue of the Redskins trying to get McNabb to step up the pace of practice that started in training camp ... so this also brought into question his work ethic which would be the only reasonable explanation for the endurance issue.

So there you have it ... 1) Intelligence issue 2) Endurance issue 3) Work Ethic

BTW ... this is a rather common view on the matter ... not something I personally made up.


chiefhog44 wrote:They don't use two different terminologies, they use the same terminology, but the QB has to know the offense well enough to know what play will work in a situation ON HIS OWN, not through a headpiece. It is EXTERMELY difficult and for someone who has only played in the system for eight games, it's probably pretty tough. Again, not to say that the excuse was justified, just explaining.


You're making excuses for the excuses ... that's all you are doing.

Grossman may have a better "book grasp" of the offensive terminology from his previous year in Houston ... but he took no work in it there or here, while McNabb has taken all of the work. Grossman has NEVER run the 2 minute offense in Kyle's system ... so that dog doesn't hunt.

The fact that McNabb has had enough grasp of the offense to play every game this year ... and enough cardio endurance to run for his freaking life for the entirety of the Detroit game up to the 2 minute mark makes those excuses ridiculous ... and that TOO is the consensus opinion.

The bottom line here is that the two Shanahans are frustrated with the lack of production on offense, as is everyone else ... that frustration obviously led them to make a very poor decision for which the results of that decision didn't just throw egg in the faces ... they battered themselves like a freaking corn dog ... then they dipped themselves in the boiling oil afterward with all of the nonsensical excuses.

Now we have two freaking fried corn dogs running the team who must now rely on an insulted QB to make them look like legitimate coaches again. Heaven help them if their redemption must come from the likes of Rex Grossman playing behind this offensive line ... though it would be poetic justice, and highlight the talents McNabb brings to the team ... which Sexy Rexy will never possess.
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Post by chiefhog44 »

34andcounting wrote:Play calling is the problem. Just one example, the sweep play where torain has ran 20 or more time it has lost yard on over half of the time. so as a play calling I would'nt use that play as much as i seen it.


first off, your not going to get very far in here with exagerating. 20 or more times should be about 2. I will check the exact number tonight.

Secondly, you have to run sweeps sometimes to set up bootlegs, so in actuality, sometimes the reasoning for running plays is to free up bigger plays later in the game. In this case, we had to keep the defense honest BECAUSE we wanted to run bootlegs to get Donovan out of the pocket. :wink:
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Post by chiefhog44 »

Kilmer72 wrote:
34andcounting wrote:Play calling is the problem. Just one example, the sweep play where torain has ran 20 or more time it has lost yard on over half of the time. so as a play calling I would'nt use that play as much as i seen it.


Sometimes you have to call the plays that do not work to just keep the defense honest. Another words they have to look out for it.


Oops, just repeated what you said. right on
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Post by Kilmer72 »

RayNAustin wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Vet, before he starts going down another rabbit hole, he originally stated the following...

RayNAustin wrote: Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.


The coaches never said any of that and I want to know why Ray continues to exagerate. Getting "out of shape" from being pulled due to cardio issues is the closest and will conceed that if you want, but to get lazy and not very smart from ANYWHERE but thin air, is a blatent attempt to fullfill some sort of agenda and I think Ray has to defend that notion because I'm calling him out on it.


I'm your huckleberry. Just because you can't read between the lines doesn't mean the rest of the world suffers such a problem.

The consensus among the ex-NFL-Head Coaches who have chimed in on the matter believe it was a severe indictment of McNabb's grasp of the offense for Shanahan to say he wasn't familiar enough with the terminology to run the 2 minute drill. They also say that after the OTAs, minicamp, pre-season, and half of the regular season, for him not to know the "terminology" well enough to run the 2 minute offense is hard to imagine. Consequently, it was either a lie, or Shanahan was indirectly questioning McNabb's intelligence publicly, given that he's an 11 year veteran QB, and should know the offense well enough to run the 2 minute offense at this point.

For your future reference ... if someone tells you ... "you ought to know better" ... that's just a more polite way of saying you're not very bright.

Then, he changes the tune by saying that it was really a cardio issue ... an endurance matter because he wasn't able to go full speed during the week because of injuries. NOW LISTEN UP .... nobody loses their cardiovascular condition by not being able to practice at full speed for 3 or 4 days ... if anything, it's a regular option exercised by teams to lighten the practice load on injured players to allow them to recuperate enough to be effective on game day. So if McNabb actually was not fit enough from a cardiovascular standpoint on Sunday, it occurred long before Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of that same week. DUH !

Again ... the fallout from that was the issue of the Redskins trying to get McNabb to step up the pace of practice that started in training camp ... so this also brought into question his work ethic which would be the only reasonable explanation for the endurance issue.

So there you have it ... 1) Intelligence issue 2) Endurance issue 3) Work Ethic

BTW ... this is a rather common view on the matter ... not something I personally made up.


chiefhog44 wrote:They don't use two different terminologies, they use the same terminology, but the QB has to know the offense well enough to know what play will work in a situation ON HIS OWN, not through a headpiece. It is EXTERMELY difficult and for someone who has only played in the system for eight games, it's probably pretty tough. Again, not to say that the excuse was justified, just explaining.


You're making excuses for the excuses ... that's all you are doing.

Grossman may have a better "book grasp" of the offensive terminology from his previous year in Houston ... but he took no work in it there or here, while McNabb has taken all of the work. Grossman has NEVER run the 2 minute offense in Kyle's system ... so that dog doesn't hunt.

The fact that McNabb has had enough grasp of the offense to play every game this year ... and enough cardio endurance to run for his freaking life for the entirety of the Detroit game up to the 2 minute mark makes those excuses ridiculous ... and that TOO is the consensus opinion.

The bottom line here is that the two Shanahans are frustrated with the lack of production on offense, as is everyone else ... that frustration obviously led them to make a very poor decision for which the results of that decision didn't just throw egg in the faces ... they battered themselves like a freaking corn dog ... then they dipped themselves in the boiling oil afterward with all of the nonsensical excuses.

Now we have two freaking fried corn dogs running the team who must now rely on an insulted QB to make them look like legitimate coaches again. Heaven help them if their redemption must come from the likes of Rex Grossman playing behind this offensive line ... though it would be poetic justice, and highlight the talents McNabb brings to the team ... which Sexy Rexy will never possess.


Ray you are making some sense but here is the deal. If you say things like that then that makes you seem a non Redskin fan to some. I know you have an argument but they will give you hell for this. The good news is you arent alone but you also have to have some faith that they (the coaches and QB) can't be this stupid all year. It will and has to get better if not then... :( We are starting all over again. I actually believe this staff can get it done. I like Kyle Shanahan approach. He might not be able to adapt too well but I see receivers getting open. If he or we had some blocking run blocking Mcnab would look much better than he does.
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Post by SkinsJock »

:shock: man am I glad that absolutely nothing that Ray is hoping will happen or what he is suggesting we need to do here, is going to actually happen

this franchise is a lot better off because of these guys and personally I'm going to judge what they do on a whole season and not just on what they've done so far


hopefully the daily whippings and belittling of players will start up again soon - this bye week is really boring
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Post by chiefhog44 »

RayNAustin wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Vet, before he starts going down another rabbit hole, he originally stated the following...

RayNAustin wrote: Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.


The coaches never said any of that and I want to know why Ray continues to exagerate. Getting "out of shape" from being pulled due to cardio issues is the closest and will conceed that if you want, but to get lazy and not very smart from ANYWHERE but thin air, is a blatent attempt to fullfill some sort of agenda and I think Ray has to defend that notion because I'm calling him out on it.


I'm your huckleberry. Just because you can't read between the lines doesn't mean the rest of the world suffers such a problem.



Ohhhh, ok. Now I understand. Didn't realize the rest of the world takes what someone says and twists it around to their liking. My fault.

RayNAustin wrote: I have just wasted five minutes of your life reading my posts with my twisting of facts and exagerations to attain my ultimate goal of bashing a team trying to make a rise and you just called me out on it


You are correct. I couldn't have said it better myself. Is this what you mean by reading between the lines???
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Post by RayNAustin »

Kilmer72 wrote:
Ray you are making some sense but here is the deal. If you say things like that then that makes you seem a non Redskin fan to some. I know you have an argument but they will give you hell for this. The good news is you arent alone but you also have to have some faith that they (the coaches and QB) can't be this stupid all year. It will and has to get better if not then... :( We are starting all over again. I actually believe this staff can get it done. I like Kyle Shanahan approach. He might not be able to adapt too well but I see receivers getting open. If he or we had some blocking run blocking Mcnab would look much better than he does.


For the record, I really don't care what people think ... I started out going to Redskin games when I was 5 years old ... my father used to go out drinking with some old Redskin players ... used to sell Xmas trees to guys like Charlie Taylor who handed me a ball after scoring a TD at one game.

And you can't win an argument about such things ... I was consistently critical of Jason Campbell when I was almost the ONLY ONE who was ... and I was not a fan according to them then. Now that I'm defending our QB, I guess it makes sense that this too is proof ... it's the old heads you win, tails I lose ... I suppose. And that's fine with me. Those that have a different opinion than I, are exercising their rights ... if I valued their opinion, I would share it .

I'm not saying we're doomed with Shanahan ... I'm saying if the pattern that has been followed thus far continues, WE WILL BE.

The Shanahans could very easily discuss among themselves their roles and responsibility in some of these things (exemplified by Kyle trying to explain what his father "meant" though the words came out wrong), and choose to alter their methods and approaches .. as would be wise for anyone to do when things aren't going the way you'd like them to. That is a possibility, and I hope that is what they do. But I'm telling you ... from an intellectual perspective, that old saying "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" could just as easily apply here.

Shanahan didn't wake up in Washington with an ego and an arrogant attitude ... this isn't a recent development. He is who he is. And it will likely be his undoing here, unless he has a meeting with Jesus, or finds another John Elway to carry him and Kyle to the promised land.

Kyle is young enough to change because he is still establishing his personal style ... but Mike S. is going to be Mike S., just as Donovan McNabb will be the QB that he has always been. He's going to throw dirt balls, and Mike S. is going to remain an egomaniac control freak ... will they find common ground enough to be successful together? Who knows.

So far, it doesn't look real promising.
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Post by RayNAustin »

chiefhog44 wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Vet, before he starts going down another rabbit hole, he originally stated the following...

RayNAustin wrote: Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.


The coaches never said any of that and I want to know why Ray continues to exagerate. Getting "out of shape" from being pulled due to cardio issues is the closest and will conceed that if you want, but to get lazy and not very smart from ANYWHERE but thin air, is a blatent attempt to fullfill some sort of agenda and I think Ray has to defend that notion because I'm calling him out on it.


I'm your huckleberry. Just because you can't read between the lines doesn't mean the rest of the world suffers such a problem.



Ohhhh, ok. Now I understand. Didn't realize the rest of the world takes what someone says and twists it around to their liking. My fault.

RayNAustin wrote: I have just wasted five minutes of your life reading my posts with my twisting of facts and exagerations to attain my ultimate goal of bashing a team trying to make a rise and you just called me out on it


You are correct. I couldn't have said it better myself. Is this what you mean by reading between the lines???


Look ... I'm not a guy big on following rules and whining when someone else breaks them .....

But kindly restrain yourself from fabricating statements and attributing them to me in freaking quotes!!!!!

If you ask me ... I'd actually say you're wasting your time reading ANYTHING ... given what you seem to surmise from the process.
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Post by SkinsJock »

RayNAustin wrote:So far, it doesn't look real promising.


so there you have it - what a lot of drivel to go through and really, it comes down to - you don't think it looks promising - sorry :cry:

I think it looks like we are going to be a lot better and a lot sooner that I would have expected - :lol:
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Post by RayNAustin »

SkinsJock wrote::shock: man am I glad that absolutely nothing that Ray is hoping will happen or what he is suggesting we need to do here, is going to actually happen

this franchise is a lot better off because of these guys and personally I'm going to judge what they do on a whole season and not just on what they've done so far


hopefully the daily whippings and belittling of players will start up again soon - this bye week is really boring


How bout you take a long walk .... with the "what Ray HOPES will happen" nonsense.

What I hope will happen is that I can drive 3 hours north to watch the Redskins play this January.

So to hell with the insinuation that I'm somehow not a fan and that I secretly long for the Redskins to fail.

Fact is, left up to GREAT fans like you and your superior football knowledge, we'd have Campbell ruining this team until he was as old as Brett Favre.

To me, the team is more important than a retread coach ... especially a wacky eyed one with a God complex who rode on the coattails of John Elway, and his son who apparently isn't nearly the genius people think he is without Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson, which, by the way, are doing just fine without him.

I'd love to have them prove me wrong, but so far, they are making Jim Zorn look smarter by the day.
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Post by RayNAustin »

SkinsJock wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:So far, it doesn't look real promising.


so there you have it - what a lot of drivel to go through and really, it comes down to - you don't think it looks promising - sorry :cry:

I think it looks like we are going to be a lot better and a lot sooner that I would have expected - :lol:


Are you planning to share with everyone just why benching McNabb for Rexy by Dumb and Dumber has lifted your spirits to such great heights, and instilled such confident optimism?

Or are you just going to keep making your usual sarcastic comments that have no foundation in reality?

Please ... tell us all about the wisdom you share with the diva driven from Denver, and how Rex is just another John Elway waiting to be unveiled by his master's genius?

Oh great one ... the Rex will go down in Redskin lore ... his bust right next to Jason freaking Campbell's, immortalized forever in Canton.

Thought I'd forgot about that ... didn'tcha ? No I did ent.

And I bet you voted for Barry Soetero ... that's prolly were all of that "Yes We Can" comes from.
Last edited by RayNAustin on Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CanesSkins26 »

That he was sitting at home, not playing until signed by the Steelers at the end of September left him available, and no doubt, he would have listened to any offers ... including the Redskins.

I get that Williams and Brown were projected to be the starting LT & RT ... BUT ... Brown was coming off an injury, and Williams was a rookie, and Stephon Heyer was the backup ? Heyer? He shouldn't even be on the team ... ANY team.


I'm just curious how the Redskins were supposed to sign Adams as a back up in September when the Steelers signed him in July when their starting RT went out for the year #-o
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Post by RayNAustin »

CanesSkins26 wrote:
That he was sitting at home, not playing until signed by the Steelers at the end of September left him available, and no doubt, he would have listened to any offers ... including the Redskins.

I get that Williams and Brown were projected to be the starting LT & RT ... BUT ... Brown was coming off an injury, and Williams was a rookie, and Stephon Heyer was the backup ? Heyer? He shouldn't even be on the team ... ANY team.


I'm just curious how the Redskins were supposed to sign Adams as a back up in September when the Steelers signed him in July when their starting RT went out for the year #-o


Oh God ... I made a mistake on the date (didn't have my reading glasses on and thought the 7 was a 9 ... so you caught me in a mistake ... so ... all of what I said means nothing now ... you're right ... if we couldn't sign him in August ... then we don't need him in November.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake ... Mr. ex-president of the Jason Campbell fan club of 2007.
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Post by CanesSkins26 »

RayNAustin wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
That he was sitting at home, not playing until signed by the Steelers at the end of September left him available, and no doubt, he would have listened to any offers ... including the Redskins.

I get that Williams and Brown were projected to be the starting LT & RT ... BUT ... Brown was coming off an injury, and Williams was a rookie, and Stephon Heyer was the backup ? Heyer? He shouldn't even be on the team ... ANY team.


I'm just curious how the Redskins were supposed to sign Adams as a back up in September when the Steelers signed him in July when their starting RT went out for the year #-o


Oh God ... I made a mistake on the date (didn't have my reading glasses on and thought the 7 was a 9 ... so you caught me in a mistake ... so ... all of what I said means nothing now ... you're right ... if we couldn't sign him in August ... then we don't need him in November.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake ... Mr. ex-president of the Jason Campbell fan club of 2007.


The date is important because you act as if Adams was just their for the taking. He was signed early on in camp when the Steelers needed a starting RT. A guy like Adams isn't going to sign with a team like the Skins, who have starters at both spots, to be a backup when they are coming off of a 4-12 season when he has a chance to start for a team that can compete for a championship.

Look I agree with you that the oline sucks and that Heyer shouldn't even be on the team, but you've argued for signings like Faneca or Adams that just weren't going to happen at the time. You can only do so much to fix an oline in one offseason and I'm sure that the front office will make oline a priority this offseason.
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Post by chiefhog44 »

RayNAustin wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Vet, before he starts going down another rabbit hole, he originally stated the following...

RayNAustin wrote: Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.


The coaches never said any of that and I want to know why Ray continues to exagerate. Getting "out of shape" from being pulled due to cardio issues is the closest and will conceed that if you want, but to get lazy and not very smart from ANYWHERE but thin air, is a blatent attempt to fullfill some sort of agenda and I think Ray has to defend that notion because I'm calling him out on it.


I'm your huckleberry. Just because you can't read between the lines doesn't mean the rest of the world suffers such a problem.



Ohhhh, ok. Now I understand. Didn't realize the rest of the world takes what someone says and twists it around to their liking. My fault.

RayNAustin wrote: I have just wasted five minutes of your life reading my posts with my twisting of facts and exagerations to attain my ultimate goal of bashing a team trying to make a rise and you just called me out on it


You are correct. I couldn't have said it better myself. Is this what you mean by reading between the lines???


Look ... I'm not a guy big on following rules and whining when someone else breaks them .....

But kindly restrain yourself from fabricating statements and attributing them to me in freaking quotes!!!!!

If you ask me ... I'd actually say you're wasting your time reading ANYTHING ... given what you seem to surmise from the process.


Clearly :roll:

One of my best posts of all time, clearly a joke, and you start whining about it. You are aloud to poke at me with not being able to read between the lines and I throw it back in your face and you call me out about it! Go run and tell your mommy
Miss you 21

12/17/09 - Ding Dong the Witch is Dead...Which Old Witch? The Wicked Witch.

1/6/10 - The start of another dark era
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Post by RayNAustin »

chiefhog44 wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Vet, before he starts going down another rabbit hole, he originally stated the following...

RayNAustin wrote: Because according to the coaches .. McNabb is lazy, out of shape, and not very smart.


The coaches never said any of that and I want to know why Ray continues to exagerate. Getting "out of shape" from being pulled due to cardio issues is the closest and will conceed that if you want, but to get lazy and not very smart from ANYWHERE but thin air, is a blatent attempt to fullfill some sort of agenda and I think Ray has to defend that notion because I'm calling him out on it.


I'm your huckleberry. Just because you can't read between the lines doesn't mean the rest of the world suffers such a problem.



Ohhhh, ok. Now I understand. Didn't realize the rest of the world takes what someone says and twists it around to their liking. My fault.

RayNAustin wrote: I have just wasted five minutes of your life reading my posts with my twisting of facts and exagerations to attain my ultimate goal of bashing a team trying to make a rise and you just called me out on it


You are correct. I couldn't have said it better myself. Is this what you mean by reading between the lines???


Look ... I'm not a guy big on following rules and whining when someone else breaks them .....

But kindly restrain yourself from fabricating statements and attributing them to me in freaking quotes!!!!!

If you ask me ... I'd actually say you're wasting your time reading ANYTHING ... given what you seem to surmise from the process.


Clearly :roll:

One of my best posts of all time, clearly a joke, and you start whining about it. You are aloud to poke at me with not being able to read between the lines and I throw it back in your face and you call me out about it! Go run and tell your mommy


You can joke all you want ... it's totally poor taste, and not at all funny to assign someone else's name to your creations.

You really ought to know better ... if you can read between those lines.
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Post by RayNAustin »

CanesSkins26 wrote:
The date is important because you act as if Adams was just their for the taking. He was signed early on in camp when the Steelers needed a starting RT. A guy like Adams isn't going to sign with a team like the Skins, who have starters at both spots, to be a backup when they are coming off of a 4-12 season when he has a chance to start for a team that can compete for a championship.


Well, what I think is relevant and truly important to the context of the discussion is not necessarily the exact date ... but the length of time Adams was on the open market and remained available ... and he was released at the beginning of April, around the same time McNabb was traded to the Redskins .... so if the Steelers didn't sign him until the end of July ... that means he was out there and available for 4 months, and it is NOT as you insinuate that the Steelers swooped in like awaiting vultures to sign him before the Redskins had an opportunity to measure such an acquisition.

So you caught an error in a date ... that CHANGES NOTHING in the context of the point being made that he was floating out there unsigned for an EXTENDED length of time, offering the Redskins and anyone else ample time to secure his services.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Look I agree with you that the oline sucks and that Heyer shouldn't even be on the team, but you've argued for signings like Faneca or Adams that just weren't going to happen at the time. You can only do so much to fix an oline in one offseason and I'm sure that the front office will make oline a priority this offseason.


In an uncapped year ... and with the Redskins fully aware of their greatest deficit being the o-line ... guys like Adams and Faneca certainly should have been on their radar ... and Faneca makes even more sense. Faneca signed a ONE YEAR deal with the Cardinals at the end of April.

And here's why these two made sense ... the Redskins knew that had very few picks in the draft, and their acquisition of Jamal Brown didn't happen until mid-June. With the draft picks available, the Redskins knew they'd only get one o-line player that could be an immediate starter on a line full of holes. Yes, both players are older ... but both could be inserted as starters on a line in desperate need. Given that the trade for McNabb clearly indicated that the Redskins intended to win NOW (you don't trade for a player of his age if you're planning a 2-3 year rebuilding program), YOU KNOW you need a line in front to protect him. The Redskins OBVIOUSLY didn't do enough in the free agent area here, given the play of the line this year, which is even worse than last year's line.

So you tell me ... how do you acquire 4 new players for the o-line, and wind up worse than you started? Either you picked the wrong players, or they are being poorly coached ... either way, that goes back to the Shanahan clan. Two ... Williams and Brown have been upgrades, Hicks and Lictensteiger, not so much .... in those spots I would surely take Faneca and Adams .... and I can't imagine the argument against that. Are you suggesting otherwise? Even from a depth perspective ... having Heyer again make the team tells me that they were not active enough in FA pertaining to the line, when options were absolutely there. Heyer is a liability, and I'd take a one legged Adams on crutches over him.

Of course, this is in hindsight, but true nonetheless. And if you carefully evaluate the player additions from the Shanahan-Allen team, you could make a strong case that the majority of difference makers in this year's team were players ALREADY HERE when they arrived. Orakpo, Landry, Hall, Rogers, Fletcher, Cooley, Moss (Haynesworth when he's allowed to play). Notable exceptions could be Banks ... Brown ... Williams . to a degree, Buchanon and Carriker.

Aside from Banks and Williams (and Williams is a no brainer as it doesn't take genius to be successful with a top 5 pick, and Banks was cut, and we were lucky to get him back), I see no real difference makers out of the Shanahan-Allen bunch, or any real genius moves.

What has Kemoeatu done? He's a big disappointment. How about Johnson and Parker? And what is Galloway and Roydel Williams still doing? (Both have 11 catches between them). Holiday ... Hicks ... Lictensteiger?

The biggest and most notable acquisition, McNabb, seems to be the player Shanahan wants to blame and insult for lack of offensive production, while ignoring the dreadful play of the oline in both run and pass blocking. While McNabb hasn't looked great ... he has made plays this year with his ability, in spite of the lack of support from those around him. He's been hammered back there, and the 22 sacks we currently have given up could easily be 35 or more, which wouldn't be that far off last year's TOTAL for the season. I guarantee you McNabb has avoided AT LEAST one sack per game that Campbell would have been crushed back there ... in the Detroit game alone, McNabb avoided 4 or 5 sacks purely with his ability, cardiovascular challenges and all :roll:

Look, I'm just doing a mid-season inventory and grade here ... and what I am forced to conclude is that in large measure, aside from McNabb, Williams, Banks, the rest of the players brought in have been relatively inconsequential to the 4-4 start.

Now, this is going to be argued ... but passing on Randy Moss was also a mistake. I really don't care for R. Moss as a person, but as a player, he would be a clear upgrade to Galloway or Williams who are taking up roster spots at WR. Would you suggest otherwise?

With McNabb's ability to throw the deep ball, and R. Moss's deep threat, he'd have added a dynamic that the Redskins lack. AA on one side, R Moss on the other, and S. Moss in the slot would have been a huge task for defenses to defend against ... and that would surely have taken pressure off of the line both in blitzes and run blocking as defenses were forced to keep safeties out of the box, busy with both Moss's.

The Redskins, as poorly as they've done in some games, are still right there in the thick of it ... with two games still to play against the Giants, and one each against the Cowboys and Eagles. With this being a buy week, we could have brought in Moss to upgrade the struggling offense, which makes far more sense than benching McNabb in favor of Rex freaking Grossman. He could have been ready to go for the Eagles game, giving us an additional edge, and another element that our division rivals would have to assign defensive resources to.

Would Moss and Shanahan butt heads? Probably ... but Belichick seemed able to deal with him for 3 years ... they just decided not to go long term on a new contract. And claiming him off waivers would have been just for the remainder of the year, with no commitment other than his prorated salary in an uncapped year. Look at how much we've paid Haynesworth? Would Moss's 3 Million have been too much to spend to get a competitive edge going into the second half of the season? I don't think so.

You're either committed to win now, or you aren't. Recent developments seem to suggest a poor strategy is being employed if winning now is a goal.

This critique is just in player acquisitions ... and really doesn't address the clear mishandling of the Haynesworth issue, nor the bone headed maneuver in pulling McNabb in favor of Grossman, and the excuses made afterward.

That is a very troubling issue ... shows me a staff that really doesn't have a firm handle on the issues plaguing this offense, or how to fix them. Blaming McNabb is a desperate reach, and I think it's squarely centered in Kyle Shanahan's inability to right the ship.
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Post by SkinsJock »

I think you're exaggerating, as usual

the facts are the facts but your conclusions and presumptions are wrong in my opinion
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Post by chiefhog44 »

Ray,

I think the plan from this management team is to build a team based on smart, team first guys that don't require huge salaries. I'm not convinced that they want a quick turnaround. I think they are building a team to compete in 2-3 years and on. Mike was not in favor of Kyle coming on board he said because it's going to take a LONG time to turn this franchise around, and Kyle had a very good thing going on in Houston. The only evidence of a quick turnaround is bringing in Donovan, which in my mind, is more of a stop gap and someone to teach our next QB (hopefully next draft), than a QB that's going to win it all for us this year or next.

You keep bringing up Haynesworth, but Shannahan inherited him. He has already said that the contract for Haynesworth would never have happened under his watch, so he's going to continue to break Haynesworth down until he plays his way...and to be quite honest, it is starting to pay dividends. The guy is playing out of mind, and certainly better than last year when coaches just let him do anything he wanted, and the guy would fake injured every play because he was tired. You have to admit that right?

As for Moss, he has major talent, and would certainly be an upgrade, but he's just not a Redskin. Meaning they are trying to change the culture here and rid the team over overpaid, underpreforming me first guys. They would rather see if this undrafted WR Armstrong can continue making plays and develop. I love that. It's what most fans were clammering for since Danny took over as owner. We are developing talent. Banks, Armstrong, Moore, Torain, Lichtenstiger, and hopefully Perry are examples of that.

As for Fanica, the guy is now a journeyman. He's not part of any teams long term plan, and that's why they didn't sign him. We're not going to fill that position until next year anyway, so why pay an arm and a leg for a player like that this year.

As for Admas, the guy would have been out of the league had the Steelers OT not ruptured his tendon. The guy is getting crushed in Pittsburgh. I watch each game (wife is a Steelers fan). He gave up 1 sack and 4 preasures in their last game, more than twice any other lineman. Why would I want that?

Bottom line, is that I think this will be a longer term plan than you think. As I have been saying, I think they brought Donovan in this year to learn the offense so he can start teaching next year. This year, they started fixing the line, and instituted a new scheme on defense. Next year, I bet they bring in a QB and trade or let go many on the defense that do not fit the scheme like Carter and Haynesworth (trade) and Rocky, Daniels, and Carlos (cut) They will only be able to overhaul only so much next year as well. And then the third offseason, is when they are targeting making a run. This team was loaded with crap thanks to Vinny, and it's going to take years for us to purge. Everyone last year said, blow the whole thing up. Well they blew up the entire staff, management and they blew up 1/3rd of the team. Next year will be another 1/3rd, and the next year will be another 1/3rd.

Feel free to make a mid year evaluation, I think people are getting frustrated with you because it's more like a mid-season bashing than an evaluation, and since this will be a multi year fix, that means we have to listen to your bashing for that much longer. It get's old.
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12/17/09 - Ding Dong the Witch is Dead...Which Old Witch? The Wicked Witch.

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Post by Deadskins »

FlyinO wrote:Hail to the Deadskins!

Thanks man! 8)
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!
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