Kory Lichtensteiger

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:33 am

For the life of me, I can not figure out what is going on here. I made a point to watch him the last few games, and he really is terrible. Im not going against Shannys knack for developing solid OLineman, but I cant figure this one out. Maybe he has a ton of talent, and just needs to sharpen his skills? Im not sure, but as bad as he has played, he is still playing. SO I dont think there is any reason to call for Dockery, its not gonna happen bc it would have by now.

Do you think we are trying to get KL experience to move to a new position? I think he played some Center? Maybe Shanny saw that Dock was the only lineman who could be replaced and is using that position to get KL experience? I would love to draft a LG with the 2nd rounder, and move KL to Center next year, releasing Rabach. Just an idea though.

Shabutie · Post by **Shabutie** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:00 am

His game against the Packers was the most dominated I have seen an interior lineman in a long time. He certainly has not been playing well, but I have seen dramatic improvement each game he has played, especially in the running game.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:09 am

Shabutie wrote:His game against the Packers was the most dominated I have seen an interior lineman in a long time. He certainly has not been playing well, but I have seen dramatic improvement each game he has played, especially in the running game.

Blind Squirrell theory on the GB game, and I'm not seeing where he's improving...

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:15 am

I think Shanahan was dead set on Kory starting from the beginning. He drafted him in Denver, and Kory was the first Free Agent that Shanahan signed this year.

Dockery makes a ton of cash. Those two variables are what lead to Dock being bneched in his favor.

But, the assessment on the field is right. This kid gets blown into the backfield consistently and missed several blitz pickups against Green Bay in particular.

I can't imagine that he plays so much better than Dock in practice.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:19 am

The Hogster wrote:Dockery makes a ton of cash. Those two variables are what lead to Dock being bneched in his favor.

Why would Dockery making tons of money lead to him being benched?

Shabutie · Post by **Shabutie** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:14 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:
Shabutie wrote:His game against the Packers was the most dominated I have seen an interior lineman in a long time. He certainly has not been playing well, but I have seen dramatic improvement each game he has played, especially in the running game.

Blind Squirrell theory on the GB game, and I'm not seeing where he's improving...

He really has. He is still probably the worst player on the field, but he was not even slowing people down. Green Bay did have Cullen Jenkins, who is one of the best in the league. The level of his opponents dropping might be helping him more than he is improving.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:31 am

do you think he is Rabachs replacement at Center next yr and we are trying to get his feet wet? I know we resigned Rabach to an extension but I cant imagine Shanny is too happy with how bad he has been playing. Would KL at Center even be an improvement?

Shabutie · Post by **Shabutie** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:44 am

I am not sure if they are looking at him to play center in the future. I can't imagine Rabach staying. He is has been consistently below average for the last few seasons.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:21 pm

The Hogster wrote:I think Shanahan was dead set on Kory starting from the beginning. He drafted him in Denver, and Kory was the first Free Agent that Shanahan signed this year.

Dockery makes a ton of cash. Those two variables are what lead to Dock being bneched in his favor.

Agree on the first sentence. I also think that MS was dead set on Kory starting. Not sure why because he has been one of the main problems with our running game.

Not sure where the Dock thing regarding money would create a PT result. If there is one thing that we have learned from MS is that he really doesn't seem to make decisions based on where you were drafted or how much $$$ you are making.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:23 pm

Shabutie wrote:I am not sure if they are looking at him to play center in the future. I can't imagine Rabach staying. He is has been consistently below average for the last few seasons.

Rabach is one of those players that I believe is better and contributes more than people think. I would even go as far as saying that behind Williams, he is our second best OL. He is old and we need to make plans for transition, but he is not the reason for our issues running the ball or pass protection. Rabach is very good at identifying defensive schemes and assisting the QB. Those are things that common observers don't generally pick up on.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:27 pm

Don't forget that we still have Mike Williams in the mix for next season. With him at RG, maybe Hicks moves to the left side?

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:38 pm

markshark84 wrote:
The Hogster wrote:I think Shanahan was dead set on Kory starting from the beginning. He drafted him in Denver, and Kory was the first Free Agent that Shanahan signed this year.

Dockery makes a ton of cash. Those two variables are what lead to Dock being bneched in his favor.

Agree on the first sentence. I also think that MS was dead set on Kory starting. Not sure why because he has been one of the main problems with our running game.

Not sure where the Dock thing regarding money would create a PT result. If there is one thing that we have learned from MS is that he really doesn't seem to make decisions based on where you were drafted or how much $$$ you are making.

I think Dock is just not a good fit for the ZBS. He is more of an in-line power blocker and might not have the speed and agility to move well enough for this system.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:42 pm

If coaches believe Dockery is too slow and cant block in space, can you imagine Big Mike WIlliams? I cant imagine BMW is a good fit for the ZBS, and above that he has a heart problem and I dont think you can bank on him playing next year, or even making the team.

If I eat crow and he does start, then moving Hicks over to the left side seems logical.

My vote is to find a guard in the 2nd round or find one in FA. Although all the good guards in FA will wanna be paid accordkingly (Mankins, RG from NO whom Im blanking on)

Shabutie · Post by **Shabutie** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:06 pm

markshark84 wrote:
Shabutie wrote:I am not sure if they are looking at him to play center in the future. I can't imagine Rabach staying. He is has been consistently below average for the last few seasons.

Rabach is one of those players that I believe is better and contributes more than people think. I would even go as far as saying that behind Williams, he is our second best OL. He is old and we need to make plans for transition, but he is not the reason for our issues running the ball or pass protection. Rabach is very good at identifying defensive schemes and assisting the QB. Those are things that common observers don't generally pick up on.

All centers do that and Rabach is not particularly better than most at it. I have seen him misidentify the Mike and misdiagnose blitzes several times. I agree he is not the issue in the running or passing game. He is serviceable at both. He commits some penalties and has the occasional awful play when he completely gets blown backwards or gives up immediate penetration. Like you said, we need to get younger, but is not an immediate need for replacement.

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:19 pm

We need a right and left guard and a right tackle (don't think JB is going to last for long) Hicks is a a really good back up. Dock is better than any guard on our team. I get it, he is slow, but still way better than who we are using at the moment.

I have to give credit to our defense. I haven't looked at the yards allowed yet but It looked to me that or defense had it best effort. (Playing more 43 or course)

DM isn't all that bad. Yes his stats suck and he isn't looking all that great. He has years like this and one in particular comes to mind when he got benched and started playing way better when he got another shot. Was that last year or the year before? Maybe MS should bench him for a game and light a fire.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:40 pm

Deadskins wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Dockery makes a ton of cash. Those two variables are what lead to Dock being bneched in his favor.

Why would Dockery making tons of money lead to him being benched?

Because he is not in the teams long-term plans. As a result, why not get the guy you want in there now so that he's experienced next year when you completely cut ties with the over-priced veteran.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:49 pm

The Hogster wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Dockery makes a ton of cash. Those two variables are what lead to Dock being bneched in his favor.

Why would Dockery making tons of money lead to him being benched?

Because he is not in the teams long-term plans. As a result, why not get the guy you want in there now so that he's experienced next year when you completely cut ties with the over-priced veteran.

Not sure I buy that reasoning. I would think Dockery is well paid for a reason, and you would want some return on that investment.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:52 pm

skins2357 wrote:I cant imagine BMW is a good fit for the ZBS, and above that he has a heart problem and I dont think you can bank on him playing next year, or even making the team.

It's a blood clot, not a heart problem. And he was the starter before the clot was discovered.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:08 pm

Yes he was, and so was Dockery. Look where he is. And a blood clot is still serious, and should not be taken lightly

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:12 pm

skins2357 wrote:Yes he was, and so was Dockery. Look where he is. And a blood clot is still serious, and should not be taken lightly

No one said it wasn't serious, but it can be treated with blood thinners, and is not an ongoing condition. There is no reason he can't play in the future, once the clot is dissolved.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:40 pm

Shabutie wrote:
markshark84 wrote:
Shabutie wrote:I am not sure if they are looking at him to play center in the future. I can't imagine Rabach staying. He is has been consistently below average for the last few seasons.

Rabach is one of those players that I believe is better and contributes more than people think. I would even go as far as saying that behind Williams, he is our second best OL. He is old and we need to make plans for transition, but he is not the reason for our issues running the ball or pass protection. Rabach is very good at identifying defensive schemes and assisting the QB. Those are things that common observers don't generally pick up on.
All centers do that and Rabach is not particularly better than most at it. I have seen him misidentify the Mike and misdiagnose blitzes several times. I agree he is not the issue in the running or passing game. He is serviceable at both. He commits some penalties and has the occasional awful play when he completely gets blown backwards or gives up immediate penetration. Like you said, we need to get younger, but is not an immediate need for replacement.

I do understand that all centers assist the QB in these things and it isn't just Rabach that does it, but I personally think Rabach is particularly good at it. He is a NFL vet and has been successful. When JC played, Rabach was basically the QB. JC couldn't read a defense to save his life.

And all centers misidentify blitzes frequently due to their viewpoint and because once they are set, their job immediately changes to assessing the DL. Ultimately, IDing the blitz is the QBs job, the center can assist and the fact that Rabach does this so often is just an example of how much confidence the QB has in him. That being said, I believe that we basically agree on the same things, I just wanted to clarify.

USAFSkinFan · Post by **USAFSkinFan** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:11 am

And I don't care what they list Lichtensteiger at, but I was standing behind him, Williams (in street clothes), and Dockery at the St Louis game... Lichtensteiger was in the middle and looked like a chipped tooth... he barely came up to the top of Dock's shoulder pad... He may be smarter and more agile, but it doesn't look like he has enough girth and/or strength to contend with most these guys he's going up against...

I get the feeling this is another one of those places wear Shanny likes to fall on his sword a little bit in order to make a point... kind of like cutting Devon Thomas and having tiny little Banks return kickoffs... I'm afraid for Banks...

PAPDOG67 · Post by **PAPDOG67** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:54 am

Shabutie wrote:His game against the Packers was the most dominated I have seen an interior lineman in a long time. He certainly has not been playing well, but I have seen dramatic improvement each game he has played, especially in the running game.

He gets dominated every game, and he constantly misses blitz pick ups, which, as a guard can be extremely dangerous for the QB (less tim to react). I'm surprised McNabb hasn't punched him in the face yet for how many times he's been drilled because this guy lets in blitzing LBs at full speed.

Shabutie · Post by **Shabutie** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:57 am

PAPDOG67 wrote:
Shabutie wrote:His game against the Packers was the most dominated I have seen an interior lineman in a long time. He certainly has not been playing well, but I have seen dramatic improvement each game he has played, especially in the running game.

He gets dominated every game, and he constantly misses blitz pick ups, which, as a guard can be extremely dangerous for the QB (less tim to react). I'm surprised McNabb hasn't punched him in the face yet for how many times he's been drilled because this guy lets in blitzing LBs at full speed.

Yes he has. Rabach needs to really help him on those plays. He also needs to help himself in the film room.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:29 pm

KL appears to be too undersized to play in the NFC East. He has been our worst OL by far!

I think at some point MS is going to have to bite the bullet and admit he was a mistake!

If that means putting dockery back in the lineup, then so be it.

Rabach has been the Skins best interior OL this year and every year since he has been here. The only reason our fans think he isn't any good is because he gets his butt whipped every game by Dallas' DT. Other than that he usually has good games.

We need to replace both guards and maybe a RT (if Brown doesn't get better) before we replace him!