Post-game Thread: Skins Win over Bears

[Shabutie]

Shab man - I'm not sure that you and I watched the same games here the last few years

OK - let's try this - I want to see a group of players that have been selected and coached by NFL guys, that opposing teams know they will have to play very well in order to get a win - we have not had that here for a long while and it will take time

being in a game like we were against the Colts OR the Texans, after all the yards we gave up is not being consistently competitive IMHO - each week we hope luck is a part of our make up - consistently competitive teams don't need to hope that luck is with them - they bring it


no worries - we're going to get rid of all that dead weight on our offensive line in the very near future and replace a lot of the other older guys here and then you'll see - because the guys in charge here now wont just bring in players that are good - they'll bring in players that make the other players around them better - that was something dumb and dumber could never do

I did not give you an opinion of the games, I gave you the actual scores. Did we not see the same scores, or did I just make those stats up? The Texans really had no business being in the game with us. Portis trips on a perfectly blocked run for an easy TD, then we get a 22 yard fg blocked. The next drive McNabb barely misses a wide open Galloway to end the game.
The last drive, Read Doughty let a game-ending INT slip through his hands. I cannot help that your definition of competitive is different from Webster's. What is all this about, "teams no they can play poorly and win." Do you really think that teams/coaches/players in the NFL do not give their all every game?

[The Hogster]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

[Shabutie]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

[The Hogster]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

[frankcal20]

We haven't been playing cupcakes either though.

[brad7686]

Well I'm not sure what expectations you had, so I can't speak to those, but McNabb has been playing at just about — or slightly below — what I expected we'd see out of him this year.

You really expected a qb rating of 76 (which is below Seneca Wallace, Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Josh Freeman, Shaun Hill and David Gerrard), a completion percentage below 60 percent and more int's than td's??? I wasn't expecting a Pro Bowl season but I was expecting production that was close to what McNabb did the last two seasons and at this point he isn't going to come close to that.

I certainly expected a completion percentage under 60%, That's what McNabb usually does. At least he's made some big plays, though. Hopefully there will be some improvement, but as is always the case here, he's not working with much from a receiving standpoint, and until that changes we won't have a dynamic passing offense. The team has obviously not picked up on that.

[CanesSkins26]

Well I'm not sure what expectations you had, so I can't speak to those, but McNabb has been playing at just about — or slightly below — what I expected we'd see out of him this year.

You really expected a qb rating of 76 (which is below Seneca Wallace, Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Josh Freeman, Shaun Hill and David Gerrard), a completion percentage below 60 percent and more int's than td's??? I wasn't expecting a Pro Bowl season but I was expecting production that was close to what McNabb did the last two seasons and at this point he isn't going to come close to that.

I certainly expected a completion percentage under 60%, That's what McNabb usually does. At least he's made some big plays, though. Hopefully there will be some improvement, but as is always the case here, he's not working with much from a receiving standpoint, and until that changes we won't have a dynamic passing offense. The team has obviously not picked up on that.

There were certainly years in Philly when he had far less to work with at receiver. And guys (especially Moss) were open yesterday. McNabb just didn't make the throws. What's most concerning to me is that he just looks over-the-hill at this point and is really showing his age, especially when moving around. He isn't a pure pocket passer so if he loses his mobility he loses the part of his game that makes him effective and that has to be a concern.

[Shabutie]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

Did they tell you in what way it made a difference? Did they tell you where that confidence came from? That usually comes from the coaches, especially after a big change in philosophy. This is the second time you implied playing sports... Again, I played College football. Anyone on the team that was decent played their hardest every snap. No one said, oh crap Goode is not being a good leader I am going to slack off. Did you slack on and off in football depending on "circumstances"?

[Irn-Bru]

You really expected a qb rating of 76, a completion percentage below 60 percent and more int's than td's???

I don't predict numbers like that ("what will be his TD/INT ratio in Week 7, I wonder?"), so no I didn't expect those specific things. I'm talking about the quality of his play, as I see it, on the field . . . and his clear contributions (or lackthereof) to wins and losses. From that perspective I think we've gotten something close to what we could have expected, given his age, switching systems, coming to a weaker team, etc.

[Irn-Bru]

Since when are "awesome" and "terrible" the two basic options? Actually McNabb, purely in terms of playing, has been mediocre. His YAR (yards above replacement) is 11th, and adjusted for the strength of the defenses he's faced (DYAR) it's 14th. Those two statistics alone are worth more, in terms of analysis, than just about anything one can cherry-pick off of NFL.com or pro football reference. Weighted, statistical analysis just doesn't agree with your perspective here.

Throw in his leadership and his penchant for playing much better when the game is on the line — two difficult-to-measure, relatively uncommon qualities in quarterbacks — and you've got a QB who really isn't that bad.

We obviously agree that he's an upgrade over Campbell. But I really can't imagine how anyone would think we upgraded merely to "terrible" from [?? what adjectives are left?]. I'd say McNabb so far has been mediocre with some upside. The real experts (IMHO) in statistical analysis appear to agree with me, too . . .

We also have an OL playing at a higher (Although not good) level. An overall better receiving core and a better offensive scheme with a more balanced attack. None of those factor into that weighted, statistical analysis.

Similar example, Portis gets a 40 yard run with pefect blocking and tripps on his own feet. Torrain breaks 3 tackles and gains 40 yards before getting dragged down. One run was much better than the other.

Not sure what you are driving at. I wasn't making a point about comparing McNabb to Campbell . . . those weighted statistics are regarding this season, McNabb compared to the other QBs in the league.

[Shabutie]

Since when are "awesome" and "terrible" the two basic options? Actually McNabb, purely in terms of playing, has been mediocre. His YAR (yards above replacement) is 11th, and adjusted for the strength of the defenses he's faced (DYAR) it's 14th. Those two statistics alone are worth more, in terms of analysis, than just about anything one can cherry-pick off of NFL.com or pro football reference. Weighted, statistical analysis just doesn't agree with your perspective here.

Throw in his leadership and his penchant for playing much better when the game is on the line — two difficult-to-measure, relatively uncommon qualities in quarterbacks — and you've got a QB who really isn't that bad.

We obviously agree that he's an upgrade over Campbell. But I really can't imagine how anyone would think we upgraded merely to "terrible" from [?? what adjectives are left?]. I'd say McNabb so far has been mediocre with some upside. The real experts (IMHO) in statistical analysis appear to agree with me, too . . .

We also have an OL playing at a higher (Although not good) level. An overall better receiving core and a better offensive scheme with a more balanced attack. None of those factor into that weighted, statistical analysis.

Similar example, Portis gets a 40 yard run with pefect blocking and tripps on his own feet. Torrain breaks 3 tackles and gains 40 yards before getting dragged down. One run was much better than the other.

Not sure what you are driving at. I wasn't making a point about comparing McNabb to Campbell . . . those weighted statistics are regarding this season, McNabb compared to the other QBs in the league.

Yards above replacement?

[The Hogster]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

Did they tell you in what way it made a difference? Did they tell you where that confidence came from? That usually comes from the coaches, especially after a big change in philosophy. This is the second time you implied playing sports... Again, I played College football. Anyone on the team that was decent played their hardest every snap. No one said, oh crap Goode is not being a good leader I am going to slack off. Did you slack on and off in football depending on "circumstances"?

You don't read too well. Nobody said that without McNabb the players would slack off. BUT, I am saying that the players BELIEVE that with McNabb in the huddle they have a chance.

If you think all NFL players go 110 percent on every play, I hate to break it to you but Santa Claus is not real either.

When players know that they are liable to get the ball on any given play, players do tend to play with a greater sense of urgency and awareness. Do you think a guy like Anthony Armstrong makes an impact with Jason Campbell at QB?

There is a difference between "dogging it" or "slacking off" and playing with a sense of confidence. McNabb, given his reputation and leadership, instills that more than anyone we've had here in a while.

It is pointless to talk about McNabb with people like you. Your mind is made up, and I don't care enough to change it. Folks like you will linger and say nothing when McNabb plays well and look for the first opportunity to pounce and justify your bias against him. You look for every excuse to give credit to everyone but him, and that won't change.

[Irn-Bru]

Well I'm not sure what expectations you had, so I can't speak to those, but McNabb has been playing at just about — or slightly below — what I expected we'd see out of him this year.

You really expected a qb rating of 76 (which is below Seneca Wallace, Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Josh Freeman, Shaun Hill and David Gerrard), a completion percentage below 60 percent and more int's than td's??? I wasn't expecting a Pro Bowl season but I was expecting production that was close to what McNabb did the last two seasons and at this point he isn't going to come close to that.

I certainly expected a completion percentage under 60%, That's what McNabb usually does. At least he's made some big plays, though. Hopefully there will be some improvement, but as is always the case here, he's not working with much from a receiving standpoint, and until that changes we won't have a dynamic passing offense. The team has obviously not picked up on that.

I agree. The TD/INT ratio is a bit surprising, but in retrospect this may very well turn out to have been the statistical low-point in the season. His strength has always been that he can get the job done.

[Irn-Bru]

Not sure what you are driving at. I wasn't making a point about comparing McNabb to Campbell . . . those weighted statistics are regarding this season, McNabb compared to the other QBs in the league.

Yards above replacement?

Ah, sorry. I dropped that link without much context because I'm pretty sure CanesSkins is familiar with FO. See here for an explanation of what "replacement" means: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dyar

[Shabutie]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

Did they tell you in what way it made a difference? Did they tell you where that confidence came from? That usually comes from the coaches, especially after a big change in philosophy. This is the second time you implied playing sports... Again, I played College football. Anyone on the team that was decent played their hardest every snap. No one said, oh crap Goode is not being a good leader I am going to slack off. Did you slack on and off in football depending on "circumstances"?

You don't read too well. Nobody said that without McNabb the players would slack off. BUT, I am saying that the players BELIEVE that with McNabb in the huddle they have a chance.

If you think all NFL players go 110 percent on every play, I hate to break it to you but Santa Claus is not real either.

When players know that they are liable to get the ball on any given play, players do tend to play with a greater sense of urgency and awareness. Do you think a guy like Anthony Armstrong makes an impact with Jason Campbell at QB?

There is a difference between "dogging it" or "slacking off" and playing with a sense of confidence. McNabb, given his reputation and leadership, instills that more than anyone we've had here in a while.

It is pointless to talk about McNabb with people like you. Your mind is made up, and I don't care enough to change it. Folks like you will linger and say nothing when McNabb plays well and look for the first opportunity to pounce and justify your bias against him. You look for every excuse to give credit to everyone but him, and that won't change.

I have not jumped on McNabb. However, you jumped to conclusions by thinking I had it out for him. I PRAISED him after the Texans game. I do not have a bias against him. I do not shower him with compliments after awful performances. I do know outside of the first half against the Texans he is the WORST rated passer in the entire league.

I have no idea if Anthony Armstrong would make an impact with Campbell, nor do you. This system actually would have suited Campbell's abilitites as well as any could.

Ok, some WRs slack every once an awhile, it is not common. You cannot prove to me that this confidence is not a product of the knew coaching staff and system.

[Shabutie]

Not sure what you are driving at. I wasn't making a point about comparing McNabb to Campbell . . . those weighted statistics are regarding this season, McNabb compared to the other QBs in the league.

Yards above replacement?

Ah, sorry. I dropped that link without much context because I'm pretty sure CanesSkins is familiar with FO. See here for an explanation of what "replacement" means: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dyar

Oh ok, I got you.

[chiefhog44]

Orakpo and Haynesworth both played like absolute beasts and it seemed to me like we were running a lot more 4-3 packages than in previous games. .

Just played a bunch of nickel. That's what you saw

[chiefhog44]

Just watched the game again. Couple points.

I think Torain had a mild concussion at the 11:40 mark in the fourth quarter. If you watch the replay, He gets crushed, and another player comes over to help him up and it appears he is calling timeout while on the ground. He left the game for a play. 2 runs later, he fumbles the ball. five runs later, he fumbles the ball, Armstrong recovers. 6 runs later, he gets the ball on a 3rd and one, and he pussy foots it and loses a yard. He started running harder on the last couple drives, but he was definately dinged up on that one play.

McNabb had a vairy good first quarter, horrible rest of the game, but there was sooo much pressure. He really didn't have too many plays that he wasn't under immediate pressure.

D Hall obviously had a monster game. The Bears WR's are bad.

Haynesworth played like a beast. That was the best game I've ever seen him play as a Redskin.

Orakpo was a monster.

I love this defense. It's a turnover machine. Get a couple more pieces in the next couple years, and we have a core to build around.

Our interior line is horrid.

[crazyhorse1]

Well I'm not sure what expectations you had, so I can't speak to those, but McNabb has been playing at just about — or slightly below — what I expected we'd see out of him this year.

You really expected a qb rating of 76 (which is below Seneca Wallace, Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Josh Freeman, Shaun Hill and David Gerrard), a completion percentage below 60 percent and more int's than td's??? I wasn't expecting a Pro Bowl season but I was expecting production that was close to what McNabb did the last two seasons and at this point he isn't going to come close to that.

I certainly expected a completion percentage under 60%, That's what McNabb usually does. At least he's made some big plays, though. Hopefully there will be some improvement, but as is always the case here, he's not working with much from a receiving standpoint, and until that changes we won't have a dynamic passing offense. The team has obviously not picked up on that.

I fail to see that our receivers are weak. Moss and ey are still two of the better receivers in the game and Armstrong is developing quickly. The problem is the OL. McNabb didn't have time to find receivers this week. He was buried in a pack play after play. Williams was the best of the lineman, but even he had a poor game.

[Deadskins]

I understand why you've been almost "Kaz like" with your responses

Now that hurts!

[Deadskins]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

Did they tell you in what way it made a difference? Did they tell you where that confidence came from? That usually comes from the coaches, especially after a big change in philosophy. This is the second time you implied playing sports... Again, I played College football. Anyone on the team that was decent played their hardest every snap. No one said, oh crap Goode is not being a good leader I am going to slack off. Did you slack on and off in football depending on "circumstances"?

You're oversimplifying what he said, and totally ignoring his point about the Cowpies and Chargers having good stat lines but crappy seasons. I have no doubt that you were not conscious of the affect your team's leaders were having on your play, but I can't believe you don't recognize the principle to which he is referring. I see it every week coaching my son's teams. If one player picks up his game, it has a contagious affect on his teammates, and it works the other way too.

[Deadskins]

A bit of trivia: Hall's 4 INTs tied the record set by what other Redskin?

[The Hogster]

A bit of trivia: Hall's 4 INTs tied the record set by what other Redskin?

Sammy Baugh if you are talking about another Redskin who caught four interceptions.

Give me a second, and I can probably think of a few QB's who might have thrown four.

[Shabutie]

McNabb has had a rough stretch. But, we are winning games. Winning is not easy. And, he deserves credit for his part in that even if it doesn't show up on the stat line.

Players believe in him. When you believe, you tend to do your job at 110 percent. That has resulted in us pulling out several games that we would not have in years past.

That is a theory you have, not factual in any way. NFL players generally play as hard as they can and that is what is so great about this particular sport. Even if they are playing harder, you cannot automatically point to McNabb for that reason. The stat line is pretty important for a QB.

I actually have 2 clients on this team who will tell you that the confidence on offense has made a huge difference. If you have played sports, you will know that confidence and leadership do matter. If you think the stat line carries the day, you obviously have not paid attention to the Cowboys and Chargers this year.

Did they tell you in what way it made a difference? Did they tell you where that confidence came from? That usually comes from the coaches, especially after a big change in philosophy. This is the second time you implied playing sports... Again, I played College football. Anyone on the team that was decent played their hardest every snap. No one said, oh crap Goode is not being a good leader I am going to slack off. Did you slack on and off in football depending on "circumstances"?

You're oversimplifying what he said, and totally ignoring his point about the Cowpies and Chargers having good stat lines but crappy seasons. I have no doubt that you were not conscious of the affect your team's leaders were having on your play, but I can't believe you don't recognize the principle to which he is referring. I see it every week coaching my son's teams. If one player picks up his game, it has a contagious affect on his teammates, and it works the other way too.

You cannot say the Cowboys and Chargers have had bad seasons due to leadership. They both have a lot of turnovers, missed fgs, and mistakes in very close games. Pure speculative to say that is because of lack of leadership. Personally, it never mattered what was going on around me. I played my hardest and best every play. Most players in the NFL do the same thing (Except when a game is out of reach, maybe) Even with that being said, I am not sure McNabb has picked up his level of play.

[The Hogster]

Shabutie. A basic principle in logical reasoning is that it is nearly impossible to prove a negative.

In other words, it is mere hyperbole for you to keep asking us to prove that the team's improvement is NOT a result of factors other than McNabb's leadership and play.

By the same flawed logic, I could ask you to prove that the team's improvement is NOT a result of McNabb's leadership and play.

All in all, I think you are bending over backwards to attribute our success to everyone but him. Eerily reminiscent of a Philly fan.