fleetus wrote:There is a lot of paralysis by analysis on here. Banks is small for the NFL, yes. Banks is fast and agile, yes. Banks might be more prone to being smashed like a bug in the NFL, yes. So what? You judge the guy by what he can do on the field. If he can run fast enough, move quickly enough and see the field well enough to be a good returner, he will make the team, despite his small stature. End of story. Only time will tell.
Exactly the point I was trying to make. I don't understand the opposition to Banks making the team on the possibility that he might get injured.
It has nothing to do with him getting injured. It has to do with him not being able to do all of the things that a wr needs to be able to do, such as run block, get off the line of scrimmage, etc. When Justin Tryon is putting you on your butt in practice you are clearly limited physically. Given that, I don't think that we keep him just to return punts given our problems/injuries at WR. If we had a more established wide receiving group, then I could see it, but we don't.
Well, my post wasn't really directed at you, but rather Maximorial, who keeps on talking about how he's going to get killed if he is allowed to make the team. But I will address your point about run blocking.
Obviously, he wouldn't be used on many run plays, unless it was as a decoy to drive the safeties back, or he was the ball carrier (an end-around). And really, how much run blocking are you expecting them to ask him to do? But even small guys can run block effectively just by positioning themselves between the defensive player and the ball carrier.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
But even small guys can run block effectively just by positioning themselves between the defensive player and the ball carrier.
which is exactly what (probably) 60% of receivers consider to be "run blocking"
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
I think that we're making this harder than what it is. We're talking about the 6th WR position which would actually be 5 WR's and a ST's player. Sort of like a punter, kicker, LS and Returner. I believe even the Jet's have 4 st guys.
Ok, Banks is clearly been the most talked about receiver on this thread. A lot of folks have picked Austin a s one of the six. Is there anyone who thinks that Austin has shown anything on his punt returns? Does he make the first man miss? Has he shown a burst of speed to get free of the first wave?
He is one of my six only because I have heard that he has looked very good in practice and he is a draft choice. My picks are not based on who I would pick as a coach, but based on who I believe the Shanahans will keep.
I could care less (this year) about draft choices and/or salaries. Thankfully, in this uncapped year, you just put the best 53 on your roster. This is a great year to reset your team and get rid of extra weight.
Now I don't claim to know as much as any coach at any level but I know that common sense is common sense. If you have a guy who is true home run threat on every punt, then why on earth would you try to sneak him on your practice squad.
If you stash away Austin on the PS and he get's picked up by someone else, that's the risk you have to be willing to take. And, it's not like Banks has shown anything to make you feel that he's going to be an all pro. Practice is practice and games are games. I'll take a guy who can turn it on at gametime vs a guy who can only do it during practice any day of the week. Not to mention, if Banks gets hurt, there are enough guys on the team who can return punts (DB's, Thomas, etc).
I know some have said that WR depth is important. If we were to lose Moss, Thomas, Kelly and Armstrong, well we've got a lot more issues than who our 6th WR is and we'll be on the scrap heap long before we hit the 6th guy on the field.
Austin did some returns against the bills and had pretty good yardage. He just didn't run one back like Banks did. Both are good, both should stay. Again, why the heck are ya'll including Galloway at 2nd when we haven't seen him do jack? "oh we need a veteran".. FOR WHAT? Moss is a vet and our WR coach is definitely a vet (McCardell).. so you want vets, there you go. Until Galloway shows something, he should be dropped or dropped lower on the depth chart.
I think that the plan for Galloway was that he was always going to be training camp bait. I don't see him on the opening day roster unless he goes off tonight. I think that Thomas will have a good game and another WR. Not sure who but Galloway won't get any votes from me.
Position First Team Second Team Third Team Fourth Team WR Joey Galloway Anthony Armstrong Devin Thomas Shay Hodge WR Santana Moss Bobby Wade Malcolm Kelly Terrence Austin PR Phillip Buchanon Brandon Banks Terrence Austin KOR Devin Thomas Keiland Williams Terrence Austin Brandon Banks
Take that as you will.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Position First Team Second Team Third Team Fourth Team WR Joey Galloway Anthony Armstrong Devin Thomas Shay Hodge WR Santana Moss Bobby Wade Malcolm Kelly Terrence Austin PR Phillip Buchanon Brandon Banks Terrence Austin KOR Devin Thomas Keiland Williams Terrence Austin Brandon Banks
Take that as you will.
From that and this is just my opinion:
Armstrong
Austin
Kelly
Moss
Thomas
Wade
in alphabetical order, of course
I just don't see them keeping Galloway
this is a position of need but I think we look to the future as well with this group
the only questin I have is about Banks and I would not mind if they preferred him to Wade
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Wade does have reliable hands and decent speed. I just don't know if he's worth keeping around. I think that he would be available later in the season if we lost someone for the year. But who knows with Minnesota and St. Louis having WR injury issues.
I just found it interesting that Galloway is still considered first team and Banks isn't even in the top eight receivers. Tuesday is the first round of cuts, so I'm sure that chart will be much more realistic after that.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
langleyparkjoe wrote:Austin did some returns against the bills and had pretty good yardage. He just didn't run one back like Banks did. Both are good, both should stay. Again, why the heck are ya'll including Galloway at 2nd when we haven't seen him do jack? "oh we need a veteran".. FOR WHAT? Moss is a vet and our WR coach is definitely a vet (McCardell).. so you want vets, there you go. Until Galloway shows something, he should be dropped or dropped lower on the depth chart.
I am picking Galloway because I watched him run that go route against the Bills. He ran it like a veteran. He started slow and all of a sudden, he turned on the jets and blew by the defender. McNabb needs to hit him in stride on that play. The pass was overthrown and out of bounds. Galloway, on that play showed that he still has the speed and has the veteran sense to get separation. Why they are not throwing to him, could be they know what he can do or he is training camp bait like Chris Draft. I think it is that they know what he can do and that is help this team win now.
SKINFAN wrote:this may sound silly, but I'd take Mcardell over galloway at #2
SKINFAN, I am taking you serious. I thought Mccardell should have kept playing and can still play. I felt that he was one of our best receivers that last year with us. Getting open is a must ingredient in a top receiver. Mccardell does it or at least did it.
frankcal20 wrote:Wade does have reliable hands and decent speed. I just don't know if he's worth keeping around. I think that he would be available later in the season if we lost someone for the year. But who knows with Minnesota and St. Louis having WR injury issues.
Agreed! Perhaps, we might be able to swing a trade for a 7th rounder for Wade.
Maximoral wrote:1. Moss 2. Armstrong 3. Thomas, who'll likely pass Armstrong on the depth chart soon. 4. Williams 5. Kelly 6. Austin
I'm in the camp that says that Banks is just too small. I think he's fun to watch, but could just invision seeing him on a stretcher somewhere down the line.
Galloway is there right now simply to provide veteran leadership. They're keeping him listed as 1st string to keep him happy. He'll be gone on the final day of cuts.
I'm still wishing that we hadn't let go of Marko Mitchell this off season. I'd be interested to see how he'd be doing in this new offense.
I decided to look up our friend Marko. Last I had heard, he was let go by the Lions. He is now with the Vikes and had a 71 yard TD against the Rams in the first pre-season game. I am curious as to why he was not even brought to camp with us.
langleyparkjoe wrote:Austin did some returns against the bills and had pretty good yardage. He just didn't run one back like Banks did. Both are good, both should stay. Again, why the heck are ya'll including Galloway at 2nd when we haven't seen him do jack? "oh we need a veteran".. FOR WHAT? Moss is a vet and our WR coach is definitely a vet (McCardell).. so you want vets, there you go. Until Galloway shows something, he should be dropped or dropped lower on the depth chart.
I am picking Galloway because I watched him run that go route against the Bills. He ran it like a veteran. He started slow and all of a sudden, he turned on the jets and blew by the defender. McNabb needs to hit him in stride on that play. The pass was overthrown and out of bounds. Galloway, on that play showed that he still has the speed and has the veteran sense to get separation. Why they are not throwing to him, could be they know what he can do or he is training camp bait like Chris Draft. I think it is that they know what he can do and that is help this team win now.
and I could be wrong, but it seems they haven't had Galloway on the field for many plays in the pre-season games. Almost like they're considering him 1st team and doesn't need too many reps.
During game edit - 1st play Galloway makes routine button hook catch. Last play of first drive, Galloway makes a nice move on Antonio Cromartie. If Grossman hadn't thrown the ball 5 yards wide, it might have been a 40 yard pass. Nice move Galloway.
ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.
The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.
Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?
Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.
The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts. He hasn't returned a single kick in the two preseason games. If you look at who is getting the opportunities, Keiland Williams, Austin, and Thomas appears to be battling for the kick returner job. I don't think that they keep both Austin and Banks, and considering that Austin can return both kicks and punts, I think that he wins the job in the end.
I think we keep: Thomas Kelly Moss Galloway Austin Armstrong
Who said that Banks won't return KO's? He just hasn't had the opportunity yet. Galloway goes.
There is no evidence to suggest that Banks is going to return kicks. None whatsoever.
Well what do you know, Banks returns the opening KO of the Jets game. Is that enough evidence?
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
and I could be wrong, but it seems they haven't had Galloway on the field for many plays in the pre-season games. Almost like they're considering him 1st team and doesn't need too many reps.
Shanahan has already said that this is true... he already knows what Galloway can do, no need to play him... Whether that is true? Who knows?
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.
The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.
Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?
Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.
The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts. He hasn't returned a single kick in the two preseason games. If you look at who is getting the opportunities, Keiland Williams, Austin, and Thomas appears to be battling for the kick returner job. I don't think that they keep both Austin and Banks, and considering that Austin can return both kicks and punts, I think that he wins the job in the end.
I think we keep: Thomas Kelly Moss Galloway Austin Armstrong
Who said that Banks won't return KO's? He just hasn't had the opportunity yet. Galloway goes.
There is no evidence to suggest that Banks is going to return kicks. None whatsoever.
Well what do you know, Banks returns the opening KO of the Jets game. Is that enough evidence?
ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.
The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.
Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?
Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.
The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts. He hasn't returned a single kick in the two preseason games. If you look at who is getting the opportunities, Keiland Williams, Austin, and Thomas appears to be battling for the kick returner job. I don't think that they keep both Austin and Banks, and considering that Austin can return both kicks and punts, I think that he wins the job in the end.
I think we keep: Thomas Kelly Moss Galloway Austin Armstrong
Who said that Banks won't return KO's? He just hasn't had the opportunity yet. Galloway goes.
There is no evidence to suggest that Banks is going to return kicks. None whatsoever.
Well what do you know, Banks returns the opening KO of the Jets game. Is that enough evidence?
And a fine job he's done tonight...
Haha! Yeah, maybe if he were a little bigger and stronger it wouldn't have been so easy to separate him from the ball!
