fleetus wrote:I bet, if you know very much about the Skins, that you already agree with the original point
You know rather then continuing to rationalize what you said it would be shorter and more accurate if you just admitted you got carried away.
But as for this statement, I agree completely that Gibbs was into character and the base of the team was built on that. But I disagree on two things. First, that somehow we were less talented. Gibbs took a talented team to the summit three times. He didn't take the galaxy with a rag tag fugitive fleet. Green is one of the best athletes we ever had, the guy is a freak of nature. Clark was a great receiver. If anything I think sometimes the overblown thing that he won with average players with character harmed the reputation of a lot of his players who deserved more recognition then they got. Guys like Mann, Grant, Jacoby, Bostic, Grimm, Coleman, Butz and a bunch of others were really good and they were always stuck with the rep Gibbs won with average players so they must be average.
I also disagree that Gibbs passed on guys with questionable characters. Riggins is on my Avatar, obviously I'm a fan, but the guy was and is an adolescent. I love Dexter, but the guy was a man child as well and endlessly into "controlled substances." Wilbur Marshall pissed me off with the cheap shots and late hits. Gibbs wanted to win. I agree he emphasized character, but he found talented guys with character and he totally went for great athletes when he got them.
Agree mostly with everything you say. (Notice i don't choose to pick it apart with each detail I take slight exception to) I believe there was great talent on the Skins, but there weren't many wheaties box or lunch box guys. Of Course Clark did get some media hype from MAdden who had him on the All-Madden team and Green was always an icon. But we never had a star QB and we had a lot of guys who were claimed through Plan B free agency. Meanwhile, the Cowboys had lots of house hold names. When we beat the Broncos in SB22, the media had Elway holding the trophy before the game started. So, maybe it is some perception because the redskins stars were'nt as flashy or well known.
I know a kid, back in 1992 or so, who had to play in Punt Pass and Kick for the region and then on to National competition. He was a Redskins fan his whole life, his whole family were Redskins fans and all hated the Cowboys. The competition organizers asked all the kids who their favorite NFL team and favorite player was. He answered Redskins and Troy Aikman! He still hasn't lived it down to this day. But as a kid, he couldn't think of a marquee player on the Redskins and so he told them the first big name player he could think of.
fleetus wrote:Stop nitpicking already, sheesh. Some of you guys spend so much time trying to disect every little sentence, you miss the point of the coversation. You sound like 3rd grade school teachers with a red ink pen.
Pointing out calling Riggins and Byner "reclamation projects" when Riggins was in the pro-bowl his last year with the Jets and Byner had one of his best years as a Brown his last year with the Browns is dissecting sentences? Sure Fleetus...
Then you add to that the points Vet already made so I didn't repeat about guys like Green and Clark. If you want your arguments to be taken seriously, don't make up crap when you write them.
This is just too much. Fleetus's statements regarding both Riggo and Byner were sound... you are picking nits, and striking out.
Riggins had gone hermit, with no intention of playing football. He had no idea that his best years were ahead of him until Gibbs convinced him.
Byner was attempting to live down "the fumble". Had he remained in Cincy, he career would have rotted. Absolutely meets the standard for a reclaimation project.
There are plenty of legitimate debates to be had here... this is not one of them.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Dude, you act like we were 12-4 last year, and that the two "hearts" of our O and D were major studs. Sorry to say, that attitude is WHY we're 4-12. Pathetic play on O and no heart, sit out some plays, question the coaches kind of D.
Sit down and shut up. People can be critical of anything they want during a 4-12 season.
Oh, and by the way, Orakpo had his best game of the season WITHOUT Haynesworth playing that day. 4 sacks.
Miss you 21
12/17/09 - Ding Dong the Witch is Dead...Which Old Witch? The Wicked Witch.
chiefhog44 wrote:Dude, you act like we were 12-4 last year, and that the two "hearts" of our O and D were major studs. Sorry to say, that attitude is WHY we're 4-12. Pathetic play on O and no heart, sit out some plays, question the coaches kind of D.
Sit down and shut up. People can be critical of anything they want during a 4-12 season.
Oh, and by the way, Orakpo had his best game of the season WITHOUT Haynesworth playing that day. 4 sacks.
Wanna nitpick games? We should have never let Timmy Smith go. He had a GREAT SUPERBOWL.
Last edited by VetSkinsFan on Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
Countertrey wrote:This is just too much. Fleetus's statements regarding both Riggo and Byner were sound... you are picking nits, and striking out.
Riggins had gone hermit, with no intention of playing football. He had no idea that his best years were ahead of him until Gibbs convinced him.
Byner was attempting to live down "the fumble". Had he remained in Cincy, he career would have rotted. Absolutely meets the standard for a reclaimation project.
There are plenty of legitimate debates to be had here... this is not one of them.
Talk about picking nits. If you want to resurrect this discussion address my actual argument, not just a slice of it since your post is in reference to my argument being picking nits. I explained the basis of my statements and I said a lot more then about Riggins and Byner, which is all you whittled my point down to. Here you go.
kaz wrote:Riggo was in the pro-bowl his last year with the Jets and Byner had 576 rushing yards (his second best year w/Browns) and 576 receiving yards (best year w/Browns) before he was traded, hardly "reclamation" projects. Doug Williams was a starting QB in the USFL and came back to the NFL when it folded, but it was hardly the "scrap heap."
kaz wrote:Then you add to that the points Vet already made so I didn't repeat about guys like Green and Clark
kaz wrote:I agree completely that Gibbs was into character and the base of the team was built on that. But I disagree on two things. First, that somehow we were less talented. Gibbs took a talented team to the summit three times. He didn't take the galaxy with a rag tag fugitive fleet. Green is one of the best athletes we ever had, the guy is a freak of nature. Clark was a great receiver. If anything I think sometimes the overblown thing that he won with average players with character harmed the reputation of a lot of his players who deserved more recognition then they got. Guys like Mann, Grant, Jacoby, Bostic, Grimm, Coleman, Butz and a bunch of others were really good and they were always stuck with the rep Gibbs won with average players so they must be average.
I also disagree that Gibbs passed on guys with questionable characters. Riggins is on my Avatar, obviously I'm a fan, but the guy was and is an adolescent. I love Dexter, but the guy was a man child as well and endlessly into "controlled substances." Wilbur Marshall pissed me off with the cheap shots and late hits. Gibbs wanted to win. I agree he emphasized character, but he found talented guys with character and he totally went for great athletes when he got them.
Hail to the Redskins!
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him
Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Haynesworth was a complete waste of money who only signed for the skins because our owner was stupid enough to pay him QB wages. In 2008 we had the 4th ranked defense, last year we were 10th, so I dont see how he made our defense better.
He wont show for the voluntary workouts, now he wont show for minicamp. It dosnt matter its voluntary, we have a new coach so you would think players would at least want to show some level of commitment. In addition he whinges about not wanting to play in a 3-4 and is about as far away from being a 'core redskin' as you can get. He dosnt care about the redskins, hes got his dough so why should he. It would seem all the stuff written about him not being the sort of person you want to make rich without dangling a carrot in front of him , was true.
I'm not alone though, the coach dont like him either. If Shanahan were our coach last year, no way Haynesworth gets signed. He cant get rid of him quickly enough.
Campbell on the other hand did his best for us, took his licks and stayed in there, you never saw him taking a knee after a couple of plays. Unfortunately his best probably isint good enough for him to be a starter. I'd rather keep him then Haynesworth though.
To call Haynesworth a 'star' is an insult to the rest of the team .. 'prima dona ' would be more fitting.
Rant over, heres hoping we get some value out of him in the form of a decent draft pick for next week.
We'll most likely get a decent pick or player IF we were to move Haynesworth - If Campbell were a better player or worth more to this franchise's future plan then he'd get more value in a trade or in draft picks WHEN we move or trade him
I think Haynesworth is playing here this year and Campbell is not - that tells me that Haynesworth is both a better 'team' player and is worth more to this franchise
BUT - that's just me
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
I believe there was great talent on the Skins, but there weren't many wheaties box or lunch box guys. Of Course Clark did get some media hype from MAdden who had him on the All-Madden team and Green was always an icon. But we never had a star QB and we had a lot of guys who were claimed through Plan B free agency. Meanwhile, the Cowboys had lots of house hold names. When we beat the Broncos in SB22, the media had Elway holding the trophy before the game started. So, maybe it is some perception because the redskins stars were'nt as flashy or well known.
