4-2-5

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Post by chiefhog44 »

langleyparkjoe wrote:
Gibbs4Life wrote:
If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung


:shock: Well maybe I won't win THN's worst post of the year this year


I never thought you'd be redeemed so quickly G4L! :lol:


I can't believe I didn't call this post out! Without attacking the poster, that has got to be one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen.
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Post by langleyparkjoe »

chiefhog44 wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:
Gibbs4Life wrote:
If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung


:shock: Well maybe I won't win THN's worst post of the year this year


I never thought you'd be redeemed so quickly G4L! :lol:


I can't believe I didn't call this post out! Without attacking the poster, that has got to be one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen.


Ok ok, don't fry me because I'm off topic but just to remind a certain someone... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBEZ6P-ErM&feature=related
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Post by SnyderSucks »

Paralis wrote:This isn't anything revolutionary. Blache and Williams called it their Cobra package, and basically everybody has a Big Nickel of some sort with a third safety.

And it's a fine idea if you're playing against the Colts or the Chargers or the Martz Rams where you're looking at a base 3WR offense and 60% passing. But if you happen to be in the NFC East, with 4 games against the Cowboys and Giants (who haven't exactly lacked for success in the ground game), I'm hard pressed to see how going smaller stands to be an improvement.


My thoughts exactly. This is something they already do, have done for a while, and will continue to do. Perhaps in the next thread the discussion can be about the possibility of the team using three WR's on the same play on offense.
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Post by Gibbs4Life »

The key is Landry and Berry; Landry is like a mini LB and should be blitzing alot, Berry is a sideline to sideline Sean Taylor Mini Me.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

SkinsJock wrote:If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung - even if Suh is there we are not taking him


Dan Marino could be in this draft and I wouldn't choose him over Sean Taylor.
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Post by CanesSkins26 »

Gibbs4Life wrote:The key is Landry and Berry; Landry is like a mini LB and should be blitzing alot, Berry is a sideline to sideline Sean Taylor Mini Me.


The comparisons with Sean Taylor need to stop. Neither Landry nor Berry is even close to being on the level of Sean Taylor. I saw Taylor play in college and I've seen Berry, and it's not even close.
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Post by langleyparkjoe »

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Gibbs4Life wrote:The key is Landry and Berry; Landry is like a mini LB and should be blitzing alot, Berry is a sideline to sideline Sean Taylor Mini Me.


The comparisons with Sean Taylor need to stop. Neither Landry nor Berry is even close to being on the level of Sean Taylor. I saw Taylor play in college and I've seen Berry, and it's not even close.


.. and you've seen the youtube highlight film(s)
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Post by fleetus »

Paralis wrote:This isn't anything revolutionary. Blache and Williams called it their Cobra package, and basically everybody has a Big Nickel of some sort with a third safety.

And it's a fine idea if you're playing against the Colts or the Chargers or the Martz Rams where you're looking at a base 3WR offense and 60% passing. But if you happen to be in the NFC East, with 4 games against the Cowboys and Giants (who haven't exactly lacked for success in the ground game), I'm hard pressed to see how going smaller stands to be an improvement.


You'd have to read my previous posts. Don't feel like restating it all over again. But if you understand 3-4 fronts, then apply that philosophy to a 4-2-5 alignment, where there are 3 big DL's up front and you end up with very stout run D with Orakpo playing as the 4th DL.
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Post by fleetus »

Okay, since we've been talking about switching to the 3-4, or playing a combo 3-4/4-3 or playing some 4-2-5, I thought I would put together what i think the Skins ideal Defensive alignment should be.

To maximize the talents of the D, you have to look at your best 11 players and try to fit the puzzle together so that they each are put in a position to do what they do best, but not leave any gaping holes against the run or pass.

So, for starters, here's how I think the players' talents stack up:

Haynesworth - most dynamic player on the team. Can stuff the run and collapse the pocket. has quickness to penetrate and get in QB's face. Not a 3-4 NT candidate except in nickel and dime packages.
Orakpo, - canplay 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. Has learned coverage but is still best rushing the passer.
Fletcher - Super solid MLB who tackles from sideline to sideline and can cover some
Carter - DE who is really limited to playing 4-3 RDE, but can still turn the corner. Run stopping skills have improved.
McIntosh - Decent speed and tackling skills. Best played as weak side 4-3 LB without having to fight blocks from guards and TE's too often. Clean up man.
Hall - fast with good instincts as a cover guy. Tackling leaves a little to be desired but can take on #1 WR most weeks.
Landry - By far the most talented DB, but has shown poor instincts in coverage and poor tackling instincts against the run. Needs to be moved to SS where he might regain some of his rookie form.
Kemoeatu - If he is healthy, he can be a monster NT playing 2 gap all game long to clog up the middle running lanes. Will force teams to run at Haynesworth and/or double team both he and Haynesworth.
Rogers - Pretty good tackler in run support. Good speed, but bites on PA fakes and double moves too often. Needs to develop better coverage skills and have a better FS backing him up.
Daniels - is old but still may be the strongest guy on the team. Can stuff the run and is good at getting his hands up to bat passes down. Will occasionally collapse the pocket, but is not a sack artist by any means.


To run a defense that maximizes the talent of the above personnel, I think I'd have to start by putting Haynesworth, Orakpo, Fletcher, Kemo and Carter in position to succeed.

Since Kemo is a definite 2 gapper and Fletcher is a tackling machine, they have to be our NT/MLB combination, anchoring the defense up the middle. Haynesworth has said he prefers one gap, so he has less responsibility to stay home and more freedom to penetrate. So put Haynesworth next to Kemo on the left side as more of a one gap 4-3 style DT. Carter and Orakpo had great success last year rushing the passer. Let's give them similar duties again this year. In some situations, Carter and Orakpo will be the outside OLB's rushing the passer like 3-4 OLB's while Daniels is the 3rd DL. But since both of them are strong enough to play some 4-3 DE, this could be a nasty run stuffing 5-2 front too, with Fletcher and McIntosh flowing behind the big guys for tackles.

So what do you call this scheme?? well, it can be a 4-3 with a NT sometimes. Where Kemo plays 2 gap NT, which will force teams to figure out how to block Haynesworth, Carter and Orakpo when one Guard and Center are already tied up by Kemo. It can be a 3-4 with Daniels coming in for Carter. So I'd call it a Redskins hybrid defense. Daniels and Carter would rotate and Orakpo would move around as a LB and DE on either side to give this D a chameleon look. Actually, that's not a bad name for it. Chameleon. Cool

But you want to free Orakpo to blitz almost like a pass rushing DE, right? But someone needs to have the coverage duties of a SLB to cover TE's and slot WR's while Orakpo is rushing the passer. So, here is where bringing Landry up as a 3rd safety, in the box, could be perfect. But then who are the two deep safeties? You have to draft Berry or sign a solid veteran FS. If you do, you allow the team to put the front 7 in the best position to succeed without having to draft a 3-4 ILB to play next to Fletcher, without having to ask Haynesworth to play 3-4 DE and without having to take Carter out for most of the game.

Haynesworth and Kemo would demand double teams much of the time freeing up Orakpo and Carter to attack the backfield. Fletcher and McIntosh would have to shut down the off tackle runs as teams try to run at Orakpo and Carter. If Hall and Rogers can't step up in runs support on the sweeps, that would be another weak spot. But up the middle we would be very strong. If Landry was inside the box to cover TE's and shut down the edge runs, this defense, in theory, would be awesome.

I can see why Berry would be an attractive option should Okung be gone at #4 and why 4-2-5 (or a 3 safety defense) would be a good fit for the Skins in that case.
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