Official Post Game Discussion- Skins/Giants Wk 15

[welch]

Awful.

[USAFSkinFan]

The last time we won a home game on Monday night was 1997... can we please stop scheduling these things... it's embarassing and I can't take the harrassment at work any more...

[TeeterSalad]

I was honestly embarrassed to watch this game w/ my buddys, thankfully beer is a good distraction.

[PAPDOG67]

- Laron Landry has to go. Get a third for him and be satisfied. Continue to grow Kareem at FS and move Reed back to SS and plus we still have Horton.

- I'd resign Carlos. Keep the DB's intact for now.

- Draft a proper LB and move Orakpo to DE full-time. We can still move him around as needed with some exotic packages.

- We need a young DT to put beside Haynesworth. Dunno where we could get one, it's not a need in the draft, maybe we'd get lucky.

- Moss has to go at WR or be demoted. ARE has to go. Kelly, Marko and Devon are keepers. Keep both ey and Davis.

- Fix the offensive line as best as possible. This must be the focus.

- RB's...keep them. Keep CP cus he's going to get paid anyway. Run the young guys and keep CP fresh. Kinda like what Baltimore does with Willis.

- QB... *shrugs shoulders....* I have no idea.

Totally agree with this post. I've been saying it for a while now. LL must go. He will never be a good safety (strong or free) because he can't cover at all. Trade him for what you can get (a 2nd or third perhaps) use the first pick to grab Claussen if he's there and then the next 2 picks on a T and C. Let Collins start next year while Claussen learns and we continue to rebuild the O-line.

[SkinsJock]

well there's no place to go but up from that mess - terrible we were

it's not going to be tough to get everyone's attention for this next game

it's Dallas week - HAIL

[VetSkinsFan]

That was the worst game I've ever seen the skins play in memory.

And Ray,

It's easy for Collins to come in fresh and not shell shocked to throw that pass. He paid for it, too. I wish we could put Collins in for about a month and see what kinda toughness he has; if he can hang in there like JC does. JC's probably the toughest guy on our team with the way he's been hit this year. He could have taken the easy road the 2nd 1/2, but he didn't. He went back in there for 30 more minutes of pummelling.

And who the hell was the RT replacement for that worthless Heyer? I've never heard of him. And big Mike's gotta go, too. No lateral movement and no initiative on those twists and stunts.

I don't have time to go in to the whole game, but those are the things that stood out most for me.

[brad7686]

That was the worst game I've ever seen the skins play in memory.

And Ray,

It's easy for Collins to come in fresh and not shell shocked to throw that pass. He paid for it, too. I wish we could put Collins in for about a month and see what kinda toughness he has; if he can hang in there like JC does. JC's probably the toughest guy on our team with the way he's been hit this year. He could have taken the easy road the 2nd 1/2, but he didn't. He went back in there for 30 more minutes of pummelling.

And who the hell was the RT replacement for that worthless Heyer? I've never heard of him. And big Mike's gotta go, too. No lateral movement and no initiative on those twists and stunts.

I don't have time to go in to the whole game, but those are the things that stood out most for me.

Yea I mean people can talk about whatever they want, but it comes down to pathetic line play on both sides. You can't play a D-line like the giants with our O-line and win. There's just no time to do anything. Also, Big Al not being in the game ruined us in the first half. They dominated our D-line.

[gushogs]

It is a sad day today, after watching that embarrasement.

Zorn is a turkey, he shouldn't make it pass Christmas.....

I said it by week 8, we should have forfited the season, to avoid watching this.

HaiL,

[frankcal20]

It is a sad day today, after watching that embarrasement.

Zorn is a turkey, he shouldn't make it pass Christmas.....

I said it by week 8, we should have

forfited

the season, to avoid watching this.

HaiL,

I don't understand the use of this word in the sentence. By week 8, we should have given support/strength to the season, to avoid watching this?

I personally think that Zorn is a good guy. I think that he is a good coach but right now, he's not an NFL coach. He's never barred that much responsibility and then to have all the behind the scenes crap, well, I think a lot of qualified coaches would struggle. The ownership doesn't really give coaches the feeling that they can come in and do what they need to do. The average lifespan of the coaches is 1.6 seasons. Most wouldn't be able to remember all the players names in that timeframe.

[spenser]

Here's the deal. This coaching staff failed to get this team ready to play, and the Giants had an offensive game plan that they executed perfectly on the opening possession, which highlighted the first mistake the coach made ... winning the toss and giving the giants the ball first anyway. Then, this ill prepared and clueless offense went three and out the next three possessions putting the defense back on the field, boom, boom, boom. The Giants scored 4 times on a defense that didn't even have time to catch a breath and figure out what was being done to them and make adjustments. Boom, down 24, right out of the blocks, and the game is over before it even gets started.

Now, Campbell was being beat up ... no doubt about that ... but Collins was in for 3 plays ... an immediate 47 yarder to Moss ... and a throw to Davis should have resulted in a TD had Davis held on to it. This HAS TO HIGHLIGHT the fact that this is the SECOND time Collins has come off the bench with the offense unable to make a bloody yard, and immediately makes big plays down field. Collins is NOT a super star QB, yet he shows that there are plays to be made down field, IF YOU GET THE BALL OUT QUICKLY AND ACCURATELY, and to the right people. That Zorn decided to put Campbell back in there just solidifies the fact that he and his staff are clueless to a criminal extent.

That ridiculous end of half play must be the most lame brained thing I've ever seen ... similar to what you might expect from a pick up game at the park, and is indicative of coaching staff that has no business on the sidelines of an NFL game.

That Blache failed to adjust the defensive strategy in the second half by at least trying to blitz Manning in the midst of his soft zone coverages being unmercifully shredded play after play and made to look foolish, is yet another reason to fire everyone except the hot dog salesmen, including Blache, Zorn, Smith ... EVERYBODY (and I've been a big supporter of Blache).

Campbell got beat up ... yes ... but I've said this before and I'll say it again ... he's thrown only 5 TD passes outside the 20 yard line over the past three years. The Giants know this better than anyone, and they know they can simply stack the box, play press coverage on the outside, and blitz the daylights out of him and completely stymie Campbell every time. They have NO FEAR of him ... not one iota, and why should they? He sucks, and they know it.

Even when not under pressure he misses short passes badly ... in tonight's case, one for a pick 6 ... another short screen, and yet another for an intentional grounding, which is INEXCUSABLE.

The cat stinks ... plain and simple. That 26% of his passes are behind the line of scrimmage, and another 40% less than 7 yards makes his stats totally meaningless and proves that he is not a starting QB calibre player.

He needs to be on the same bus out-of-town with his coaches, because anyone can do what he does, which is lose and look bad doing it.

Draft a QB, and let Collins and Brennan fight it out for the starting job next year while training your rookie.

Could Collins or Brennan do any worse than 45-12 and a pick 6 ? Could they do any worse than 4-10 ... looking more and more like 4-12 ? I don't think so. It doesn't get much worse than this, and it's time to stop making excuses and start making changes ... we've changed coaching staffs once already ... time to send a few players out the door with this group of inept coaches.

Dude your post makes SOOOO much sense, and is so dead on accurate, and that is why our Rinky dink franchise will probably do the exact oppisite. I was sooo pissed watching the pregame, where Mike Ditka and company were efusive in their Praise of Campbell. On and on about his toughness, and his multiple coordinatiors, blah blah blah. They keep preeching Paitence, but anyone who knows anything can CLEARLY see he is NOT even a middle tier qq let alone an elite guy... why some cant see this i have no idea

[Judge]

What a disgrace.

For the men on the field. For the management. For the ownership. For the fans. For everyone involved in the great history of the organization.

This whole thing is a mess, and there are so many leaks that I don't have the mental strength to think about them all.

What I can and will say is that there MUST BE A BLOODBATH and a starting from scratch. Our gm (lower case letters intentional) has already been given the boot, so that's a start. But that must ONLY be a start. Coaches and players must be let go now, too. Nobody's job is safe.

And the draft and free agency MUST address areas of NEED instead of areas of WANT. (Read: "Build OL and DL depth.")

This disaster of a season cannot end fast enough.

(But if they can get it together enough to give the Cowboys a nice big kick in the nuts next Sunday, I won't complain a bit. )

[SkinsJock]

What a disgrace. For the men on the field. For the management. For the ownership. For the fans. For everyone involved in the great history of the organization.
This whole thing is a mess, and there are so many leaks that I don't have the mental strength to think about them all.
What I can and will say is that there MUST BE A BLOODBATH and a starting from scratch. Our gm (lower case letters intentional) has already been given the boot, so that's a start. But that must ONLY be a start. Coaches and players must be let go now, too. Nobody's job is safe.

This disaster of a season cannot end fast enough.

(But if they can get it together enough to give the Cowboys a nice big kick in the nuts next Sunday, I won't complain a bit. )

first of all we just brought in Bruce Allen as our GM - Cerrato was let go/resigned BUT he was not the GM - we have not had a front office here for a while which is a major reason for what we all saw last night - BUT the possibility of an actual FO and new management team is one of the things that we might have to look forward to

secondly - we have 2 more games to play so we need to have a team and coaches to play those 2 games

while I agree that nobody's future is safe here - we really should try and give the GM and whomever is coming in to manage this team as much of a look as we can

[Chris Luva Luva]

This man made me DIIIEEE laughing. He is so on point. His face is our season. I recorded video too so you can see the full range of emotion. My friends and I kept rewinding it, we had tears in our eyes.

[gushogs]

I don't understand the use of this word in the sentence. By week 8, we should have given support/strength to the season, to avoid watching this?.

Misspelled the word, I meant forfeit: surrender, part with, given up...., my bad.

[SkinsHead56]

I have but one word for this...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[gushogs]

This man made me DIIIEEE laughing. He is so on point. His face is our season. I recorded video too so you can see the full range of emotion. My friends and I kept rewinding it, we had tears in our eyes.

I cann't even begin to imagine the pain of waking up all fired up because you have game tixs, leave the office early, go home, get all dressed up with the team colors, drive maybe a couple of hours in traffic, get in the stadium, sit back thinking, the Skins are going to take the gints out of the race and then, in the blink of an eye, start watching how your once proud team gets dismantled by a hated rival. That guy's face tells a sad story.

[RayNAustin]

And Ray,

It's easy for Collins to come in fresh and not shell shocked to throw that pass. He paid for it, too. I wish we could put Collins in for about a month and see what kinda toughness he has; if he can hang in there like JC does. JC's probably the toughest guy on our team with the way he's been hit this year. He could have taken the easy road the 2nd 1/2, but he didn't. He went back in there for 30 more minutes of pummelling.

I like how you frame that as being "fresh" and easy rather than cold off the bench in a hostile environment that just sent the starter hobbling to the sideline, LOL. In any event, as best I can remember, Collins did play a month in 2007 and we won the 4 regular season games he played in by two scores each game, including our very last win against NYG, in NY. (How soon they forget) That that turn of events didn't cause the organization to rethink this automatic anointing of Campbell as the 2008 undisputed starter (as if the position was reserved for bloodline royalty) shows the cluelessness of the FO and Coaching staff they hired, as well as many fans of Jason who continue recycling the same worn out excuses.

Certainly there have been games with protection issues ... Monday night being the most recent example. And I don't blame Campbell for this atrocious and embarrassing display we witnessed on national TV. This stinker game was just symptomatic of the greater problems that even Ray Charles could see, with Campbell being not the only problem, but a significant contributing factor.

The overall problem as I see it is a collection of players that have grown accustomed to mediocrity being acceptable, and being coddled and cajoled. From Campbell, to Randle El, to Laron Landry, thinking that no matter how lousy they play ... they'll continue to play.

And there is no better example of this than the four years of hand holding Campbell ... patted on the butt and praised for periodic flashes of competent play that should be the baseline standard for a starting QB, and not an event worthy of celebration and champagne.

Once again, only 5 TD passes from outside the opponent's 20 yard line in three seasons of play is a statistic that highlights the problem with the Redskin offense better than any other single issue.

And what have they tried to fix it? Changed coaching staffs, and offensive systems, while continuing to play the same players that consistently come up short more often than not.

That Randle El was allowed to fumble and bumble on KO duty for the past two years with inept results is EXACTLY the same mindset that has allowed Campbell to view his performance over the past three years as "pretty good".

It's not pretty good, and never has been pretty good. It's been moments of pretty good sandwiched between long extended streaks of pretty lousy.

Under Zorn, this team has taken that scenario to a whole new level. Who on earth talks about a 4th year starting NFL QB "forgetting" to step up into the pocket? The Redskins, and ONLY the Redskins.

Yes, Jason Campbell got smacked around pretty good Monday night. And the reason why is completely misunderstood. Jason Campbell's inability to punish defenses down filed for aggressive pass rushing encourages more of the same. And even when the pass pro holds up, Campbell reacts as if it hadn't. That pick 6 he threw was a screen pass to a guy 6 yards away from him that sailed way over the receiver's head and was not caused by pressure ... it was purely another example of Jason's wildly inconsistent accuracy problems that have and continue to plague this offense.

Make no mistake, no matter how good your o-line might be, the opponent can always bring one more rusher than you can block. The only thing you can do to discourage such aggressiveness is to burn them when they do it so frequently as to say "I dare you". Then the'll back off. Jason Campbell's complete inability to do that allows the defense to come after him without fear of getting punished. That's why teams with good defensive lines are routinely so successful against him. They know they don't even have to sack him ... just pressure is all that is needed for him to lose sight of his targets down field and dump the ball off 5 yards shy of a first down.

No, Jason's poor production occurs even when he has decent pass pro, which eliminates pressure as the significant factor ... it's just a convenient excuse when it happens.

[ATX_Skins]

And Ray,

It's easy for Collins to come in fresh and not shell shocked to throw that pass. He paid for it, too. I wish we could put Collins in for about a month and see what kinda toughness he has; if he can hang in there like JC does. JC's probably the toughest guy on our team with the way he's been hit this year. He could have taken the easy road the 2nd 1/2, but he didn't. He went back in there for 30 more minutes of pummelling.

I like how you frame that as being "fresh" and easy rather than cold off the bench in a hostile environment that just sent the starter hobbling to the sideline, LOL. In any event, as best I can remember, Collins did play a month in 2007 and we won the 4 regular season games he played in by two scores each game, including our very last win against NYG, in NY. (How soon they forget) That that turn of events didn't cause the organization to rethink this automatic anointing of Campbell as the 2008 undisputed starter (as if the position was reserved for bloodline royalty) shows the cluelessness of the FO and Coaching staff they hired, as well as many fans of Jason who continue recycling the same worn out excuses.

Certainly there have been games with protection issues ... Monday night being the most recent example. And I don't blame Campbell for this atrocious and embarrassing display we witnessed on national TV. This stinker game was just symptomatic of the greater problems that even Ray Charles could see, with Campbell being not the only problem, but a significant contributing factor.

The overall problem as I see it is a collection of players that have grown accustomed to mediocrity being acceptable, and being coddled and cajoled. From Campbell, to Randle El, to Laron Landry, thinking that no matter how lousy they play ... they'll continue to play.

And there is no better example of this than the four years of hand holding Campbell ... patted on the butt and praised for periodic flashes of competent play that should be the baseline standard for a starting QB, and not an event worthy of celebration and champagne.

Once again, only 5 TD passes from outside the opponent's 20 yard line in three seasons of play is a statistic that highlights the problem with the Redskin offense better than any other single issue.

And what have they tried to fix it? Changed coaching staffs, and offensive systems, while continuing to play the same players that consistently come up short more often than not.

That Randle El was allowed to fumble and bumble on KO duty for the past two years with inept results is EXACTLY the same mindset that has allowed Campbell to view his performance over the past three years as "pretty good".

It's not pretty good, and never has been pretty good. It's been moments of pretty good sandwiched between long extended streaks of pretty lousy.

Under Zorn, this team has taken that scenario to a whole new level. Who on earth talks about a 4th year starting NFL QB "forgetting" to step up into the pocket? The Redskins, and ONLY the Redskins.

Yes, Jason Campbell got smacked around pretty good Monday night. And the reason why is completely misunderstood. Jason Campbell's inability to punish defenses down filed for aggressive pass rushing encourages more of the same. And even when the pass pro holds up, Campbell reacts as if it hadn't. That pick 6 he threw was a screen pass to a guy 6 yards away from him that sailed way over the receiver's head and was not caused by pressure ... it was purely another example of Jason's wildly inconsistent accuracy problems that have and continue to plague this offense.

Make no mistake, no matter how good your o-line might be, the opponent can always bring one more rusher than you can block. The only thing you can do to discourage such aggressiveness is to burn them when they do it so frequently as to say "I dare you". Then the'll back off. Jason Campbell's complete inability to do that allows the defense to come after him without fear of getting punished. That's why teams with good defensive lines are routinely so successful against him. They know they don't even have to sack him ... just pressure is all that is needed for him to lose sight of his targets down field and dump the ball off 5 yards shy of a first down.

No, Jason's poor production occurs even when he has decent pass pro, which eliminates pressure as the significant factor ... it's just a convenient excuse when it happens.

I agree, I said during the game thread there is more than just a breakdown with the line. When teams do not fear/respect you as a QB it makes it easier to send the house. If Campbell was a legit deep threat there would be one less guy rushing in.

Someone during the game threat said it best yesterday:

"If we are just going to throw the ball short routes why did we ever get rid of Brunnel"

or something like that, I also agree.

[grampi]

I'm no longer a fan of THIS team. I still wear Redskins sportswear, and I'm still proud of the team's heritage, but the current team is too much of an embarrassment to support. This team doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. They do nothing but disgrace it. Sorry, but this isn't a team. It's just a bunch of disorganized knuckleheads whose hijacked our team's uniforms.

[Deadskins]

[quote="grampi"]I'm no longer a fan of THIS team. I still wear Redskins sportswear, and I'm still proud of the team's heritage, but the current team is too much of an embarrassment to support. This team doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. They do nothing but disgrace it. Sorry, but this isn't a team. It's just a bunch of disorganized knuckleheads whose hijacked our team's uniforms.[/quote

Yeah, that's the players' fault.

[grampi]

I'm no longer a fan of THIS team. I still wear Redskins sportswear, and I'm still proud of the team's heritage, but the current team is too much of an embarrassment to support. This team doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. They do nothing but disgrace it. Sorry, but this isn't a team. It's just a bunch of disorganized knuckleheads whose hijacked our team's uniforms.[/quote

Yeah, that's the players' fault.

While it is partially the players fault, I believe the coaching staff is also a part of the team.

[DEHog]

I'm no longer a fan of THIS team. I still wear Redskins sportswear, and I'm still proud of the team's heritage, but the current team is too much of an embarrassment to support. This team doesn't deserve to wear the uniform. They do nothing but disgrace it. Sorry, but this isn't a team. It's just a bunch of disorganized knuckleheads whose hijacked our team's uniforms.[/quote

Yeah, that's the players' fault.

While it is partially the players fault, I believe the coaching staff is also a part of the team.

See ya when the Skins are good again I guess...I undersatnd the frustrations and talking about them but to abandon your team...For me your either all in or not...

[VetSkinsFan]

And Ray,

It's easy for Collins to come in fresh and not shell shocked to throw that pass. He paid for it, too. I wish we could put Collins in for about a month and see what kinda toughness he has; if he can hang in there like JC does. JC's probably the toughest guy on our team with the way he's been hit this year. He could have taken the easy road the 2nd 1/2, but he didn't. He went back in there for 30 more minutes of pummelling.

I like how you frame that as being "fresh" and easy rather than cold off the bench in a hostile environment that just sent the starter hobbling to the sideline, LOL. In any event, as best I can remember, Collins did play a month in 2007 and we won the 4 regular season games he played in by two scores each game, including our very last win against NYG, in NY. (How soon they forget) That that turn of events didn't cause the organization to rethink this automatic anointing of Campbell as the 2008 undisputed starter (as if the position was reserved for bloodline royalty) shows the cluelessness of the FO and Coaching staff they hired, as well as many fans of Jason who continue recycling the same worn out excuses.

Live in the now. 2007 is over and gone. I'm talking about the line THIS year and the pummelling JC's taken THIS year. I think that JC doesn't doesn't get enough credit for his toughness, especially this year, behind this line.

And you should stick to the subject, as opposed to going off on your anto-Campbell tangent like you always do. I wasn't arguing either way in my post to keep or can JC, but saying there are few QBs out there with the toughness to h andle what JC's been thru. And I don't think a 38 yo Collins could handle it.

[Deadskins]

And Ray,

It's easy for Collins to come in fresh and not shell shocked to throw that pass. He paid for it, too. I wish we could put Collins in for about a month and see what kinda toughness he has; if he can hang in there like JC does. JC's probably the toughest guy on our team with the way he's been hit this year. He could have taken the easy road the 2nd 1/2, but he didn't. He went back in there for 30 more minutes of pummelling.

I like how you frame that as being "fresh" and easy rather than cold off the bench in a hostile environment that just sent the starter hobbling to the sideline, LOL. In any event, as best I can remember, Collins did play a month in 2007 and we won the 4 regular season games he played in by two scores each game, including our very last win against NYG, in NY. (How soon they forget) That that turn of events didn't cause the organization to rethink this automatic anointing of Campbell as the 2008 undisputed starter (as if the position was reserved for bloodline royalty) shows the cluelessness of the FO and Coaching staff they hired, as well as many fans of Jason who continue recycling the same worn out excuses.

Live in the now. 2007 is over and gone. I'm talking about the line THIS year and the pummelling JC's taken THIS year. I think that JC doesn't doesn't get enough credit for his toughness, especially this year, behind this line.

And you should stick to the subject, as opposed to going off on your anto-Campbell tangent like you always do. I wasn't arguing either way in my post to keep or can JC, but saying there are few QBs out there with the toughness to h andle what JC's been thru. And I don't think a 38 yo Collins could handle it.

Maybe not, but part of Ray's point is that TC wouldn't have to handle it, because he would get the ball out quicker, and would make teams pay for sending the house time after time.

[VetSkinsFan]

And Ray,

It's easy for Collins to come in fresh and not shell shocked to throw that pass. He paid for it, too. I wish we could put Collins in for about a month and see what kinda toughness he has; if he can hang in there like JC does. JC's probably the toughest guy on our team with the way he's been hit this year. He could have taken the easy road the 2nd 1/2, but he didn't. He went back in there for 30 more minutes of pummelling.

I like how you frame that as being "fresh" and easy rather than cold off the bench in a hostile environment that just sent the starter hobbling to the sideline, LOL. In any event, as best I can remember, Collins did play a month in 2007 and we won the 4 regular season games he played in by two scores each game, including our very last win against NYG, in NY. (How soon they forget) That that turn of events didn't cause the organization to rethink this automatic anointing of Campbell as the 2008 undisputed starter (as if the position was reserved for bloodline royalty) shows the cluelessness of the FO and Coaching staff they hired, as well as many fans of Jason who continue recycling the same worn out excuses.

Live in the now. 2007 is over and gone. I'm talking about the line THIS year and the pummelling JC's taken THIS year. I think that JC doesn't doesn't get enough credit for his toughness, especially this year, behind this line.

And you should stick to the subject, as opposed to going off on your anto-Campbell tangent like you always do. I wasn't arguing either way in my post to keep or can JC, but saying there are few QBs out there with the toughness to h andle what JC's been thru. And I don't think a 38 yo Collins could handle it.

Maybe not, but part of Ray's point is that TC wouldn't have to handle it, because he would get the ball out quicker, and would make teams pay for sending the house time after time.

JC was getting hit on 3 step drops, as usual. It's very difficult to get the ball out when you can't finish your drop.