SportsLine: Top corner or star back? Bailey makes it clear

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:40 pm

fine chris, you keep your blind loyalty to bailey but i so reason not call em' like i see em'...after all, i don't rout for the broncos.

JR_USCG_GOSKINS · Post by **JR_USCG_GOSKINS** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:46 pm

Who would you want, a sut-down corner or a Pro-bowl running back..Coach Dungee was on the tube a few monthes ago and was asked this question... He said he would take the running back,everytime.... Thats coming from a defensive minded coach. By week eight whos name is going to be all over ESPN. I bet its not going to be Bailey...

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:50 pm

DEHog wrote:Not sure what you guys want from a player. Champ played 5 years here, never missed a game. 4 Pro Bowls, never had his name on the police blotter. All that while having to watch DS throw buckets of money at has beens. Stop blaming Champ for not winning games, last time I checked football was a team sport. Someone mentioned that CP has a better tude then Champ? Your kidding right!!

your right DEHOG, football is a team sport. that's why one player messing up can cost you a game...like, i don't know...getting beat deep for 60 yard TD's...

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:05 pm

I loved Champ, but part of Champ that you couldn't separate from him last year was that he did not want to be in Washington any longer.

If the choice was between Champ and Portis, it becomes an extremely tough call, in my opinion. But that wasn't the choice. The choice was between keeping a 2nd round pick and losing a Champ that didn't want to play here (no puns, please) via cap hit (June 1st cuts, I guess?); or, on the other hand, losing a 2nd round pick (and Champ) but gaining Portis. Not a tough call, in my opinion.

But all this Champ bashing is simply lashback--if he was still here everyone would be singing his praises. Turn off the tunnel vision, guys.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:46 pm

But all this Champ bashing is simply lashback--if he was still here everyone would be singing his praises. Turn off the tunnel vision, guys.

Exactly, everyone would be saying how hes going to come back under Gibbs, this that and the other. He's one of, if not the best corner in the league, he had an off year due to HIMSELF and other factors he could not control.

fine chris, you keep your blind loyalty to bailey but i so reason not call em' like i see em'...after all, i don't rout for the broncos.

Its obvious you are not reading my posts because I have admitted in plenty of them that Bailey messes up. I've said it more than once in this thread so your statement is pointless. I dont care who you cheer for. I cheer for the Skins but simply because a man leaves doesnt mean I going to dog him out.

your right DEHOG, football is a team sport. that's why one player messing up can cost you a game...like, i don't know...getting beat deep for 60 yard TD's...

O so he was the reason we lost that game. No one else blew an assignment. No one else missed a tackle. What if Lavar made a tackle he missed, we may have won. What if Patrick sidestepped instead of standing still and made another completion, we would have won. What if our line wasn't jumping off sides and didnt cost us a drive. What if Spurrier has a good good blocking scheme. If all of what I said happened, that one TD wouldn't have mattered as much would it? There was a lot of messing up on everyone part in every game and with every team. The whole team is responsible.

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:05 pm

#1.Nobodies perfect.
#2.Champ stated at the beginning of last season
that if the Redskins brought in another
defensive co-ordinator he was leaving.I
belive when people set ultimatums they set
themselves up to either "eat crow" which I
belive he didn't want to do or follow
through which he did.
#3.Champ refused the first proposal and was
hoping for more.I think Lavar was offered
more and took it which upset Champ that he
was not offered more then Lavar.He felt he
should have been the team "Golden child"
as Green was.This left him with a bitter
attitude toward the team/owner.Funny we
also managed to piss off the new "golden
child"(Lavar)with a contract dispute.lol.
#4.I started this with no ones is perfect.
For several years now I have steadily
seen oposing teams find ways to get around
Champ.Some use the opposite side of the
field,however year after year more teams
have learned from films how to get their
receivers open against Champ.Champ is not
the shut down guy, but he does make it more
difficult for receivers.All that said my
facts may be perfect either.I liked Champ
and knowing that he didn't give Gibbs a
chance will make me feel better if we beat
them.
#5.If Champ was concerned about a ring then he
should have signed with the Patriots,Colts,
Titans,Cheifs,Eagles or Panthers.The Broncos
are good but not Superbowl good.I wish him
well with his good "fortunes."

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:15 pm

surferskin wrote:
DEHog wrote:Not sure what you guys want from a player. Champ played 5 years here, never missed a game. 4 Pro Bowls, never had his name on the police blotter. All that while having to watch DS throw buckets of money at has beens. Stop blaming Champ for not winning games, last time I checked football was a team sport. Someone mentioned that CP has a better tude then Champ? Your kidding right!!

your right DEHOG, football is a team sport. that's why one player messing up can cost you a game...like, i don't know...getting beat deep for 60 yard TD's...

Guess your refering to the Giants game (funny that seems to be the only game people bring up) I guess it's Champs fault that Collins had all day to throw the ball. I guess it's Champs fault that LA rushed Collins and allowed Carmello to run free down the sideline to set up the winng FG. Go back and look at the stats of the opposing teams best WR's total them up...not exactly Pro Bowl numbers. I really don't want to get in to this again, we beat this horse to death already. It's a unwritten rule in the NFL that you don't let go of a shutdown corner...that from a NFL scout.

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:45 pm

DEHOG, don't forget the bears and saints game...marty booker and joe horn abused champ as well...but that's the last thing i'm going to say about that bronco...we are beating a dead horse...hey! bronco, horse...get it..man, that's corny $\:D/$

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:31 pm

a thread to bash a guy that we all
loved and rooted for for the past 5 years should have fallen off the front of the forum by now

if Champ had resigned we would all be talking about what a great year he would be having this coming season. none off us like the way his departure went down but NFL football really isnt a game to the players it's a busness. Champ went where he could get the most money. He cant play forever so how can we blame him for looking out for himself

Champ was a champ for five (ok 4.75) years lets not try and make him a chump now

best of luck Champ....unless you're playing the Skins

ANT7088 · Post by **ANT7088** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:41 pm

This is what pisses me off! They always mention the money with us, but Bailey's $9 million a year is OK????

Champ Bailey says: 'I think I am the best.'

The 'Skins paid heavily to land Clinton Portis.

These were on the main page of Sportsline if anyone didn't see them.

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:05 am

1niksder wrote:
if Champ had resigned we would all be talking about what a great year he would be having this coming season.

i'm not quite so sure about that. i know i would be saying 'i hope champ doesn't stink it up like he did last year'. and i think many might agree with me. now, saying he had a bad year means that he might have only been in the top ten cornerbacks rather than the top two, so you have to put it in perspective.

all in all, i think i'm more excited to see portis on the field in a skins uni than i was to see champ in one.

JonC56 · Post by **JonC56** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:49 am

Champ Bailey played out his heart and soul for the redskins. He did not miss a game in his time with the redskins. What happened was best for both teams. I wish him all the best in denver. I just dont understand how we can knock the guy. He showed up everyday, regardless of his injuries and played as hard as he could. It's almost as if some of you expect him to be perfect and never get beat. If everyone came to work with the same approach as bailey, I would be happy.

JonC56 · Post by **JonC56** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:03 pm

Another thing, to respond to surfer skin, One of the main reasons we won the new engalnd game last year was becuase of champ. He made play after play in that game. Also, when a corner is doing his job and shutting down his reciever, then you probaly won't be hearing about his play becuase the reciever will never get the ball thrown to him. HE can't make int's if people arent throwing the ball his way.

REDSKINMARK · Post by **REDSKINMARK** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:40 pm

In Denver, he said he is in a perfect situation, too. Unlike last year with the Redskins, where the inmates took over the prison from warden Steve Spurrier to create an unsettling locker room, the Broncos are a different team. There are veterans to lean on and coach Mike Shanahan is clearly the guy in charge -- and everyone knows it.

"This is a first-class organization," said Bailey. "You can feel it. Things are so much more organized than they were in Washington last year. That's the biggest difference. This is a good move for me and my career."

Ouch!! As always, I can see both sides of an issue. And I can on this one too. Bailey claims he's a shut down corner, but come on, really, he was beat many times last year by either the receiver blowing past him or by a wideout's inital fake where Champ bit and was take out of position. I saw it many times. These mistakes were not predicated on a constant pass rush, as much as they were on him just getting burned.

On the other hand, I can see his point about having much more structure in Denver. As noted in previous posts, the constant change over in top coaching personell will naturally lead to a sense chaos.

During the last 4 to 5 years I have been pleading for our FO to get a strong willed coach, who can bring some order to the lockerroom. I now believe we have that coach and the disruptions should be minimized.

Go Portis![/quote]

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:07 pm

I also cannot believe this is still going on - BUT - I agree that Champ was a good player for us and his attitude (for the most part) was reportedly good also.
Again - this post was about Champ feeling that his position was more important to a team than running back AND that he felt that the Denver situation was going to be a great opportunity for him.
I thought that the skins organization tried to keep this "star" in good faith but Champ felt he was not treated properly or with the respect he felt was due and he decided that he would be somewhere else.

That being said I repeat that I feel we got the better of the deal and even though some would say we gave up too much - IMO we did what we had to in order to get the player we needed.

box8276 · Post by **box8276** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:43 pm

I never thought champ was or is what everyone thinks he is. Can anyone tell me how great he was and how he motivated every defensive player to play harder, and as i recall he never dominated any games i watched, isnt that the most important part. Ray Lewis is a dominating defensive player who teams game plan around, BUT he still finds a way to make plays. When champ is in postition to come through, he gets burned for td's. Especially against Dallas, which really pees me off.I will predict that if teams would just throw the ball at champ everyone will see, he got this deion thing going on, and in the afc teams arent goin to bow to him they are going to attack him. And besides for all those that sing his praises he is a bronco. I root for redskin players and redskin players ONLY! HAIL PORTIS!

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:16 pm

box8276 wrote:I never thought champ was or is what everyone thinks he is. Can anyone tell me how great he was and how he motivated every defensive player to play harder, and as i recall he never dominated any games i watched, isnt that the most important part. Ray Lewis is a dominating defensive player who teams game plan around, BUT he still finds a way to make plays. When champ is in postition to come through, he gets burned for td's. Especially against Dallas, which really pees me off.I will predict that if teams would just throw the ball at champ everyone will see, he got this deion thing going on, and in the afc teams arent goin to bow to him they are going to attack him. And besides for all those that sing his praises he is a bronco. I root for redskin players and redskin players ONLY! HAIL PORTIS!

preach it brother =D>